Guild Wars 2

A lot of players are tired of having two duelists and a swordsman, or even worse three duelists, bursting them down at the same time. I would think that summoning a clone that is already up should destroy the older one and replace it with a new version with full health and retaliation. Summoning two of the same kind of clone is very easy for mesmers. If the player maxed out his skill with and off-hand pistol and sword, he can kill just about anyone. If you are an experienced player that enter tournaments daily, you should know this to be true. I find killing another player in a match in less than five seconds is quite overpowered. If you have three phantasms on you, they can easily bring your health down from 20,000 to 0 in a matter of seconds. As much as many would like to kill these phantasms quickly, most mesmers stack up their health so that only high power builds can burst them down. High power builds, though, don’t survive as well as mesmers. Therefore, a minor fix or solution to this problem could be only allowing one of each type of clone to be summoned at a time; thus, eliminating the “stealth, dodge and flank while my clones do the rest” kind of mind-set.

There’s already a limit to the number of clones or phantasms a mesmer can have at any time. It’s 3. Why would limiting the number of each kind make a difference? Apart from making it more irritating by having to switch weapons to summon all three, anyway.

Sitkaz.5463:

There’s already a limit to the number of clones or phantasms a mesmer can have at any time. It’s 3. Why would limiting the number of each kind make a difference? Apart from making it more irritating by having to switch weapons to summon all three, anyway.

I answered your question in the description. You should read the post in it’s entirety.

-.- forget Mesmer, quiet Mesmer. Already hard to survive in pve. Stop Us nerve!
I do not do at all since the last dmg mods, I …

brief.

Stop it. not touch Mesmer.

Another day, another desire to nerf Mesmers. Meh.

I have a better idea. Namely, that folk as a whole quit worrying about Class “X” being “OP,” and worry more about countering the aspects what tick you off. Seriously, it’s getting silly. As is, Mesmers eat enough nerfage from PvPers complaining about the
Profession’s mechanics. Meanwhile, have half the folk what hate Mesmers so much fought -iunno- a really swank bunker Guardian? Let me tell you, I’ll fight a Shatter AND a Phantasm Mesmer, at the same bleeding TIME before that matchup.

And you know what? I don’t make suggestions about “Hey, these bunkery, uber-healin’
mofos torque me off … let’s change up how their abilities work!” I wouldn’t. Why?
Simply put, I’m old enough to remember what game “balance” used to represent.
Namely, that all characters/classes/weapons do not need to exist in a state of
“equality” for a game to be both good and fun to play.

What the “Nerf what kills ME!” crowd doesn’t frigging get, is that if we applied this logic to other types of gaming, you’d have absolutely. no. differentiation. at. ALL.
None! Imagine playing -say- Tekken, and Heihachi plays exactly like Yoshimitsu.
Would you enjoy this, or would it be … boring. as. HELL? I know which answer I’d give.

TL;DR:
There’s balancing things that need a looksee, and just screwing a specific class or skillset into the bloody ground. Let’s stop confusing concept #1 for #2, please.

I personally still think sharper images is the issue. Mesmers are mixing condition damage from the idualist with phantasm burst. That’s why they feel so overpowered. If a power mesmer was unable to get 15-20 stacks of bleeds they wouldn’t feel as overpowered.
At 45 ticks per second that’s an extra 675-900 damage per second and it wears you down in even a slightly drawn out fight. They should swap sharper image’s location with confusing combatants.

Problem is, Zelulose: Most Phant-mesmers, especially after the rework of Illusionist’s Celerity, aren’t going any further into Domination than it takes to get Empowered Illusions. Two logical -and not ridiculous- ways to deal with that issue are:

1.) Since EI is a leftover from Beta, when Clones did actual damage of their own, remove EI completely. However, this could somewhat backfire, by limiting potential
Build variety. Which leads to my second -arguably better- suggestion…

2.) Stop Empowered Illusions from stacking damage with Phantasmal Strength. This would bring P-Mesmer down a “reasonable” notch in “OPness,” while allowing variation in how one makes a Phantasm Build.

As much as I hate to admit it: since Condition/Confusion have gotten slapped -due to QQ-, and IC was moved (arguably too far up the chain, I still think 15 -or better yet- 20 would’ve done the job, and promoted variation), if Phantasm is going to get shafted, at least do it in a way that is less heavy-handed then past Mesmer nerfbatting.

Mesmer… Just OP.

- Insane raw dmg with Sword/Pistol and/or GS.
- Insane condition spamm and dmg with phantasm, clones, retaliation, shatter and Staff.
- Insane sustain with phantasm, clones, instant cast and defensive-offensive heal, teleport, invul, stealth, cc all time…

Most of Mesmer’s skills can attack and defend at same time with high efficiency.

No more coments…

So you’re telling me that you want to not only nerf the one build you consider OP, but nerf every build of the class and make the scepter for mesmers completely useless, simply because you don’t like it in PvP. Making the mesmer useless for dungeons, PvE, PvP, and WvW at the same time.

you spoiled the game Mesmers, just because it beats you in pvp?

In pve because of you, the Mesmers become useless …

JETWING.2759:

Mesmer… Just OP.

- Insane raw dmg with Sword/Pistol and/or GS.
- Insane condition spamm and dmg with phantasm, clones, retaliation, shatter and Staff.
- Insane sustain with phantasm, clones, instant cast and defensive-offensive heal, teleport, invul, stealth, cc all time…

No more coments…

Let’s address this point-by-point, shall we?

-Sword: recently brought down in power, by the changes to Blurred Frenzy. Illusionary Leakitten till a LoS Nightmare, and flubs more than it works. Auto-chain has been modified, as well. Pistol does have nice damge/CC, but -even traited- is a slower weapon to get off of C/D. GS is good range and single-target DPS, but that’s its design and its AoE aspects are correspondingly limited.

-Condition Damage and Sustain from Phant-spec are still more than counterable by AoE damage. Mesmer C.Dmg is limited in type/application besides Bleeds, and that trick requires a dedication to Dueling for Precision.

Retaliation ate a 33% decrease in effectiveness for any Profession what uses it, and Phantasmal Retaliation got its duration decreased from unlimited to 5 seconds.

Shatter requires -at base- 30 Illusions and 10 Domination for its full offensive might, let alone 20 Dueling to make it spammable. So, your Build now only has 10 Traits to put elsewhere.

Staff is unpredictable in its effects, look at Winds of Chaos/Chaos Armour/Chaos Storm for confirmation. In addition, CA was altered last “major” patch, was it not?

-You’ve never run Phant spec, have you? The Regen is not that high, tbh. And when ANet – months ago- dropped the duration of Illusionary Membrane, the Regen/Prot combo took a serious beating.
Teleports are limited, in scope and in cooldown time.
Invuln timing took a hit with the change to Blurred Frenzy, and that presumes that every Mesmer runs MH Sword.
CC is not nearly as all-encompassing as you think, and also just got dropped a bit, by way of the Into the Void change.
Stealth is not perma-stealth by any means, and requires a 30 trait investment to make the best use of. Also limited by both cooldown time and by Revealed.

In general:
8/10 for trolling effort, 1/10 for execution.

I take down veteran monster and his minions when i yet was lv5 Mesmer, just spamming, shattering and restarting the cicle while i self deal more and more dmg and escape with stealth or teleport :/

Just no exists class useless in PvE.

JETWING.2759:

I take down veteran monster and his minions when i yet was lv5 Mesmer, just spamming, shattering and restarting the cicle while i self deal more and more dmg and escape with stealth or teleport :/

Just no exists class useless in PvE.

I have 5 Professions at 80, and have managed similar tricks on any of them. That’s more knowing your position relative to the enemy, and keeping an eye on your Health.
The rest is mere kiting. Stealth hasn’t reset enemy aggro in months, which makes it merely a prolonging of your demise, than an auto-reset button. Teleports are another
“prolong your demise” tactic. No amount of teleport saves yer kitten from multi-cc/knockdown tactics.

Advent.6193:

JETWING.2759:

Mesmer… Just OP.

- Insane raw dmg with Sword/Pistol and/or GS.
- Insane condition spamm and dmg with phantasm, clones, retaliation, shatter and Staff.
- Insane sustain with phantasm, clones, instant cast and defensive-offensive heal, teleport, invul, stealth, cc all time…

No more coments…

Let’s address this point-by-point, shall we?

-Sword: recently brought down in power, by the changes to Blurred Frenzy. Illusionary Leakitten till a LoS Nightmare, and flubs more than it works. Auto-chain has been modified, as well. Pistol does have nice damge/CC, but -even traited- is a slower weapon to get off of C/D. GS is good range and single-target DPS, but that’s its design and its AoE aspects are correspondingly limited.

-Condition Damage and Sustain from Phant-spec are still more than counterable by AoE damage. Mesmer C.Dmg is limited in type/application besides Bleeds, and that trick requires a dedication to Dueling for Precision.

Retaliation ate a 33% decrease in effectiveness for any Profession what uses it, and Phantasmal Retaliation got its duration decreased from unlimited to 5 seconds.

Shatter requires -at base- 30 Illusions and 10 Domination for its full offensive might, let alone 20 Dueling to make it spammable. So, your Build now only has 10 Traits to put elsewhere.

Staff is unpredictable in its effects, look at Winds of Chaos/Chaos Armour/Chaos Storm for confirmation. In addition, CA was altered last “major” patch, was it not?

-You’ve never run Phant spec, have you? The Regen is not that high, tbh. And when ANet – months ago- dropped the duration of Illusionary Membrane, the Regen/Prot combo took a serious beating.
Teleports are limited, in scope and in cooldown time.
Invuln timing took a hit with the change to Blurred Frenzy, and that presumes that every Mesmer runs MH Sword.
CC is not nearly as all-encompassing as you think, and also just got dropped a bit, by way of the Into the Void change.
Stealth is not perma-stealth by any means, and requires a 30 trait investment to make the best use of. Also limited by both cooldown time and by Revealed.

In general:
8/10 for trolling effort, 1/10 for execution.

Wasn’t troll, is the true store.

Louveepine.7630:

you spoiled the game Mesmers, just because it beats you in pvp?

In pve because of you, the Mesmers become useless …

Actually requiring clone diversity would balance some issues with mesmers… there’s already content that 1 mesmer can just perma warden.

MakeitNeil.4561:

Sitkaz.5463:

There’s already a limit to the number of clones or phantasms a mesmer can have at any time. It’s 3. Why would limiting the number of each kind make a difference? Apart from making it more irritating by having to switch weapons to summon all three, anyway.

I answered your question in the description. You should read the post in it’s entirety.

I did read it all, and I don’t understand. You just want to make it harder to summon clones/phantasms? Sightly barely harder? No, I don’t understand, except I guess you’re asking for a nerf of some kind, as others say. It’s an odd nerf. I don’t get it.

With the cool downs for phantasms, they’re summoning so many because you’re taking too long to kill them and/or illusions. If I have enough time to summon 3 duelists in the same fight then my opponent is playing horribly.

No reason to nerf a class when it’s a learn to play issue.

No, you know what. I’m fine with having only one of each phantasm out. Just let us wield 3 weapons at once so we can drop out 3 different phantasms.

Louveepine.7630:

you spoiled the game Mesmers, just because it beats you in pvp?

In pve because of you, the Mesmers become useless …

same in wvw!you guys nerfed everything that is good or viable in zergs and anet keeps listening to all the qq about spvp!i dont care about spvp and never will, but now anet balances spvp and wvw the same and it should not be treated that way at all. bye bye condition builds in wvw.

in wvw u wont manage to keep phantasms up long enough to get all 3 up. there is arrowcart, trebs, catas, ballistas and an insane amount of conditions. our condition has been nerfed to the ground, because of qq and now other classes are op with no viable counter for us.

i dont even like the cheesy power phantasm build. i liked condition build, but thanks to people like u it is gone.

spvp ruins my whole game experience in wvw due to 1v1 balancing (torment? great in 1v1= useless in wvw). i used to have soo much fun in wvw, now its a grind and the nerfs are destroying every build out there. i really love this game, but anet keeps ruining the mesmer while not even trying to fix major bugs and inbalances of other classes and siege.all mesmers got over the past patches was nerfs and a few useless buffs at the wrong places. spvp,wvw and pve needs different balancing and therefor different balancing teams.

selan.8354:

Louveepine.7630:

you spoiled the game Mesmers, just because it beats you in pvp?

In pve because of you, the Mesmers become useless …

same in wvw!you guys nerfed everything that is good or viable in zergs and anet keeps listening to all the qq about spvp!i dont care about spvp and never will, but now anet balances spvp and wvw the same and it should not be treated that way at all. bye bye condition builds in wvw.

in wvw u wont manage to keep phantasms up long enough to get all 3 up. there is arrowcart, trebs, catas, ballistas and an insane amount of conditions. our condition has been nerfed to the ground, because of qq and now other classes are op with no viable counter for us.

i dont even like the cheesy power phantasm build. i liked condition build, but thanks to people like u it is gone.

spvp ruins my whole game experience in wvw due to 1v1 balancing (torment? great in 1v1= useless in wvw). i used to have soo much fun in wvw, now its a grind and the nerfs are destroying every build out there. i really love this game, but anet keeps ruining the mesmer while not even trying to fix major bugs and inbalances of other classes and siege.all mesmers got over the past patches was nerfs and a few useless buffs at the wrong places. spvp,wvw and pve needs different balancing and therefor different balancing teams.

what really needs to happen to balance this game, is anet needs to split the skills up between Spvp skills and PvE/WvW skills. So PvEers can have our skills, and Spvp get their balance and we dont pay if one build is good for 1v1 that a zerker warrior cant beat it so it has to be nerfed.

@MakeitNeil.4561 u should check your build first and maybe the way u play before coming here to complain and ask for that major changes.

U are talking about 2-3 of the same phantasms at a time and that they busrt u down in 5sec which is IMPOSSIBLE. If u took the time to maybe go to /wiki and read the cds on those skills u’ll see what I mean. They are on 20-30s cd(non traited). So for a mesmer to have 3 duelists or 3 wardens, the fight has to least at least a minute. Not to mention the weapon swap cd. U also can kill them, by now u sould know that phantasms are the mesmers backbone. Ignoring them won’t do you any good.

If a mesmer is bursting you down in 5s it’s porbably your fault. There are builds that can do that, but that can be said for many classes, not only the mesmer. Don’t go full glass if ur new and don’t know how to survive, sometimes surviving > dmg. Know your opponents as good as u know yourself.

nymph.1658:

They are on 18-20s cd.

You can get duelists on a 12s cooldown, and 3 out isn’t 3x the cd time, it’s only 2x the cd time since the first one isn’t already on cooldown. L2Math

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

selan.8354:

Louveepine.7630:

you spoiled the game Mesmers, just because it beats you in pvp?

In pve because of you, the Mesmers become useless …

same in wvw!you guys nerfed everything that is good or viable in zergs and anet keeps listening to all the qq about spvp!i dont care about spvp and never will, but now anet balances spvp and wvw the same and it should not be treated that way at all. bye bye condition builds in wvw.

in wvw u wont manage to keep phantasms up long enough to get all 3 up. there is arrowcart, trebs, catas, ballistas and an insane amount of conditions. our condition has been nerfed to the ground, because of qq and now other classes are op with no viable counter for us.

i dont even like the cheesy power phantasm build. i liked condition build, but thanks to people like u it is gone.

spvp ruins my whole game experience in wvw due to 1v1 balancing (torment? great in 1v1= useless in wvw). i used to have soo much fun in wvw, now its a grind and the nerfs are destroying every build out there. i really love this game, but anet keeps ruining the mesmer while not even trying to fix major bugs and inbalances of other classes and siege.all mesmers got over the past patches was nerfs and a few useless buffs at the wrong places. spvp,wvw and pve needs different balancing and therefor different balancing teams.

what really needs to happen to balance this game, is anet needs to split the skills up between Spvp skills and PvE/WvW skills. So PvEers can have our skills, and Spvp get their balance and we dont pay if one build is good for 1v1 that a zerker warrior cant beat it so it has to be nerfed.

agree with you very much on this.anet has to separate these again. they have to see that everyone changes their build acording to what part of the game they are playing. i mean glamour build worked in wvw, but was terrible in spvp due to the low confusion dmg and in pve it wasnt good at all either.i have different builds for spvp,wvw and pve. so the balance should be handled the same way.

Player Character.9467:

nymph.1658:

They are on 18-20s cd.

You can get duelists on a 12s cooldown, and 3 out isn’t 3x the cd time, it’s only 2x the cd time since the first one isn’t already on cooldown. L2Math

Srsly? “L2math”?! I never said u couldn’t. pointing out the cd without traits. I’m pointing out that it’s IMPOSSIBLE to do it in 5s. Don’t start something that is not needed here.

A lot of nonsense in this topic. As usual people who can’t beat mesmers are whinging for nerfs (even totally insensible ones like limiting illusions by type) rather than just learning how to beat them.

Mesmers were beatable at launch. Since then they’ve been nerfed, nerfed, nerfed, nerfed, nerfed and nerfed again. And now they’re still beatable… in fact, even more so!

In a final effort to get something constructive out of this topic, how about the OP plus that other guy who complained about mesmers post some videos of them losing to some phantasm mesmers?

We’ll give you some advice on what you’re doing wrong and maybe you’ll realise they’re not overpowered you were just making some mistakes.

(yes, yes, I know that will never happen because everyone who politely requests nerfs is a perfect player and only loses because other classes are overpowered… but we can dream of a day when players are willing to realise that perhaps the fault maybe lies elsewhere and you don’t need to request a nerf everytime you lose a fight!)

@OP
There’s a mechanic in this game already. It’s called “cool down”. It prevent you from contiuously spamming one skill.

If you want to further prevent two phantasms of the same kind, it’d equal to lengthen their cooldown by factor 3. Seriously, I hope they implement this system, let mesmers carry three weapon sets (to get three different phantasms) and increase all other classes cooldowns by factor three. And for the Thief, increase Initiative consumption by factor 3.

Player Character.9467:

nymph.1658:

They are on 18-20s cd.

You can get duelists on a 12s cooldown, and 3 out isn’t 3x the cd time, it’s only 2x the cd time since the first one isn’t already on cooldown. L2Math

So you mean a specialized mesmer with at least 45 trait points reserved just needs 27s to call three duelists and they’ll burst all enemies down? So the opponent just has to stand there for 27s and not touch and of the duelists? Yeah, better nerf them.

Just fought a mesmer that killed everyone in Rethesis’s Server. All he did was summon three duelists and stealth/blink. >.<

MakeitNeil.4561:

Just fought a mesmer that killed everyone in Rethesis’s Server. All he did was summon three duelists and stealth/blink. >.<

Then everyone on this server was dumb, can you explain to me why don’t you just focus on those frickin duelists while the mesmer is in stealth? geez haters gonna hate, lamers gonna lame…

lol, i can kill phantasms just swearing at them, and everybody can kill my phantasm the same way, but they still try to focus on me letting my i mage do my dirty work while i have only to survive…
they don’t get it.

talking about minions, mesmers clones and phantasms are simply ridiculous compared to a single ranger pet or the army summoned by a necro. and they have them summoned the entire time, even with no enemy in site and they don’t disappear by a single swing of a wooden sword…

why nobody is screaming nerf the minion master necro who heals endlessly and doesn’t even need stealth because the targeting system of this game prevents him to be targeted by default?

one day an elementalist just shouted at me while was fighting because i was a mesmer and i didn’t need any skill to beat his class…
if only she had fought instead of chatting, maybe i would have need a little more skill

o.O minonmancers suck…

i can’t kill them in pvp, and if i do it is their first day there, or they are running some other build that make me easy to target them and therefore kill them.
all the other time they are just interrupting me, blocking me, fear me and by the time i can turn my camera their army is already on me and they are perfectly healed

that’s probably because all your summons can’t aim

Player Character.9467:

that’s probably because all your summons can’t aim

Not just that, but they’re not tied to a single object, and if that object dies, so do they. (Other than the player, themselves.)

MakeitNeil.4561:

Just fought a mesmer that killed everyone in Rethesis’s Server. All he did was summon three duelists and stealth/blink. >.<

Yeh like someone said before, everyone on that server must have been legally blind or dumb. The duelist has a 16 second CD. I’ll let you in on a secret… phant mes wont do dmg without phant… no reason why anyone should let someone spawn more than 2 of the same phants in one fight rofl. Too many people complain about mesmer being OP, when they don’t realize that there are so many classes / builds that can easily counter all kinds of mesmer builds. People need to get off the “mes op omg” bandwagon and learn to counter stuff rofl.

MakeitNeil.4561:

Just fought a mesmer that killed everyone in Rethesis’s Server. All he did was summon three duelists and stealth/blink. >.<

so what did u just stand there and waited for each of these 3 to be summoned?that is nearly impossible in the middle of a fight.I maybe get 3 up if i am attacking an undefended gate in wvw…and that DOES TAKE A WHILE! wow over exaggerating much!