Guild Wars 2

I think we need the inspect option to see other player’s armory, traits and achievements. Each game has that option but gw2 doesn’t have it.
It’s hard to tell if the person is skilled or not without checking his gear, of course gear doesn’t always show the player’s skill, But we need at least some clue who do we take with us to the group or any sort of event. I’m also curious to check people sometimes when I’m bored. It’s a basic option in any MMORPG.

Lol no. if you cant kill some one learn to make a build. Watch how they play

It’s not a necessity. We don’t actually need this. If anything, Anet should bring back templates to Guild Wars. They could make it so you can request the person to ping the template setup of their gear and numerical version of their traits, like they did in GW1, and if the person refused or wasn’t up to your ‘standards’ you could either help them by giving them suggestions or not party with them.

Inspection breeds elitism, which there was/is already. If you don’t have the best gear, or proper build people will announce their opinion about it, more than likely directly to the member being inspected. At least with templates, one has the choice to ping it or not, plus if they brought that system back, one could save templates for later use and such, much like back in GW1.

You can inspect players in PvP, but not WvW or PvE.

No.

^

bad idea. Only promotes elitism from people who don’t know the difference between “viable” and “optimal”.

Second one of these this week isn’t it, or maybe third or fourth, in any case.

I support full transparency of spec and gear, and yes, even what your character looks like in their underpants…

and I don’t care what you are wearing or playing.

If someone is mean, then /report or ignore. Mostly though they are not being mean with their comments. Perception of tone through text is subjective.

not everything is reportable. But aside from something any thick skin can solve, elitist attitude ruins communities. an idea like this has been proven time and again to only encourage elitism while providing very little benefit at all.

So a player get lucky with a pre cursor drop, buys/gets all the things he needs and then you decide he is skilled?
Weird, try looking at he or she playing instead of the gear.

exactly. Players will get carried through, and have automatic elite-credibility. then they will deem anything not “optimal” as not “viable”. and yay, people will listen to them. because they will say, “look how shiny my gear is. I MUST know what im talking about. Hark! anyone who disagrees with me is a bad”. And the people will fear being looked at as a bad. so much so, that they will bleet and baaa. and propogate the elitist attitude that they pretend to understand. and those will be dark days. yay, dark days indeed!

Oh goody, one of these again…

Don’t bother with it OP, the carebears don’t want people to see their Rabbid gear on their Rifle warrior, because people might steal their awesome build. Or they want to keep MF leeching.

I don’t care that much, since I don’t PUG, but I would have liked it back when I did PUG.

I’m all up for templates though, not only because it was so easy to load up, but also because you could use it to ping links, which is a pain now. GL giving someone your TS address, because the other guy is going to have to type it out.

MF leeching is on the way out, so that probably isn’t what is motivating players to oppose this horrible idea.

So the only other option is: “Hark! anyone who disagrees with me is a bad”.
Or ….. there are valid reasons.

Bright.9160:

Oh goody, one of these again…

Don’t bother with it OP, the carebears don’t want people to see their Rabbid gear on their Rifle warrior, because people might steal their awesome build. Or they want to keep MF leeching.

I don’t care that much, since I don’t PUG, but I would have liked it back when I did PUG.

I’m all up for templates though, not only because it was so easy to load up, but also because you could use it to ping links, which is a pain now. GL giving someone your TS address, because the other guy is going to have to type it out.

Remember the bad things in gw that were equally stupid? UW groups where you had to show your 50 stones or gtfo. And people then bought them from other players, got in and failed.

aspirine.6852:

Bright.9160:

Oh goody, one of these again…

Don’t bother with it OP, the carebears don’t want people to see their Rabbid gear on their Rifle warrior, because people might steal their awesome build. Or they want to keep MF leeching.

I don’t care that much, since I don’t PUG, but I would have liked it back when I did PUG.

I’m all up for templates though, not only because it was so easy to load up, but also because you could use it to ping links, which is a pain now. GL giving someone your TS address, because the other guy is going to have to type it out.

Remember the bad things in gw that were equally stupid? UW groups where you had to show your 50 stones or gtfo. And people then bought them from other players, got in and failed.

I remember them, of course, but something like that isn’t an inspect. That’s dumb design.

Inspect means being able to see one’s gear and skills. I’d even be happy if we just had templates where we could ping our traits, that way we can ask someone to ping their gear and traits. With MF going out the window (which I had forgotten, but someone pointed out for me), there isn’t really a reason for someone to lie about their gear anymore and carry 2 sets only to change mid way.

So, if Trait templates become implemented (which they should have been from launch, I mean, they had it in GW1), you can ask someone to ping everything, and the other person can still decline your request. That way, people retain their privacy, and you still have the right to kick them for not obliging.

Everybody wins.

Dustfinger.9510:

not everything is reportable. But aside from something any thick skin can solve, elitist attitude ruins communities. an idea like this has been proven time and again to only encourage elitism while providing very little benefit at all.

Everything is reportable that is not solved by being willing to communicate with others.

Shoving “the other” into “the devil” category does you no good.

/inspect has never hurt anyone, it merely fosters communication.

People who think that inspecting is not used to weed out people without giving them a chance are delusional.

And besides, if you don’t even play the same profession, what authority do you have to dictate someone else’s build? What will it be based on? Sure, you can talk about gear being Berserker, but that’s as far as you’re going to get. You can’t possibly go around telling people that their trait setup is “wrong”, especially since there are usually more than one way to play a specific set of gear.

Take me for example. I play a Warrior, so the “standard” would be full Berserker, Ruby Orbs or Runes of Scholar, 30/0/0/10/30 or 30/25/0/0/15. Well, I’m running Knight trinkets with Ruby Jewels, Runes of Hoelbrak and 0/30/20/0/20. Now ask yourself, which of these would be the breaking point for you? Would it be the runes that I wouldn’t be willing to replace? Maybe you’d tell me to GTFO because my gear isn’t all Berserker? Or would you really go down the bad route and boot me because my traits aren’t full damage?

As for the people who say that inspection “isn’t hurting anyone”… Well, you couldn’t be more wrong. Heck, even now people are constantly not playing the profession they love, because they get invited to dungeons on their Warrior, Mesmer or Guardian. And yes, that does make the experience kitten for you. I know games where people would habitually have at least two characters, one for dungeons and another for everything else.

Wow such bitter complaints in this thread, I’m sorry you had bad personal experiences and that someone or other was mean. Actually no I don’t care. This is a forum not a therapist. Please keep it factual?

In this game we can’t even see basic details about someone, they could be in level 40 green gear and we couldn’t tell if they had it morphed (which I always do). This is a massive problem. Not only does it take away from the reward of a player finally getting the gear they wanted for a long time, and being able to show what they have. It also takes away from our personal play time by having our time wasted, and by not being able to tell what the person next to us in LA is geared like. It would be much easier to make some of the harder Dungeon runs if you could at least start to communicate with random people with suitable gear.

A LOT of time is wasted getting groups. Dungeons on here can and have taken me over 4 hours before. I DO NOT want to be stuck with carrying through people who have made 0 effort to try and make themselves ready for harder content.

I CAN HELP, if and ONLY if I can see their items and build to give advice. I have played multiple MMO’s and I learn classes fast. It’s not rocket science, and I’m not the only one doing this. To advise new people as to the options of builds that they have to choose from after they tell me a bit of what they want from the game. I have always helped with advice, it takes me a few minutes, it’s easy and most of the time you make some friends. Spending 4 hours trying to get someone through an instance who is semi afk, is not something I am willing to do. That is where I draw the line. I will not boost people who haven’t even tried and I should not have to. If you are badly geared, go play with other people of the same gear level and good luck to you.

If you don’t want that, work some more on your gear and make some friends.

Finally, I would like to add that the GW2 community is more friendly and forgiving, I would suggest that not much elitist bullying would go on. However people who do not try to make their gear good enough in the first place should not waste the time of others.

I’d like an ‘inspect’ option that only shows the base armor and weapon names (no prefix, suffix, stats, or runes/sigils), just because sometimes I see armor that I like and have no idea what it is.

NO! NO! NO!

I dont like peeping tom. I dont like busy bodies, delusional egoistic ooze to look at my equipment and TRAITS?? Without my PERMISSION?? When they are bored??

Ever heard of privacy?

If you want to know, ask. If you suspect they are not telling the truth, observe.

ParnAshwind.4823:

NO! NO! NO!

I dont like peeping tom. I dont like busy bodies, delusional egoistic ooze to look at my equipment and TRAITS?? Without my PERMISSION?? When they are bored??

Ever heard of privacy?

If you want to know, ask. If you suspect they are not telling the truth, observe.

Like I said: pingeable templates like in GW1, and that way, everyone is satisfied.

The people that want inspect can ask the people in their team to ping their build and inspect it. You can already ping gear, so that’s not hard to inspect either. With MF going away, it’s not like people will lie about their gear in an effort to leech, so that’s a worry less.

The carebears on here that don’t want naughty elitists to look at their gear/build can decline the request of pinging their setup, and the party can choose to react to that as they please.

The benefits of templates:

• Share builds easily

• Load up builds easily instead of all the manual bull****

• Can serve as a form of voluntary inspect

• Can be used to ping internet links like in GW1

• Has absolutely not a single downside what so ever

Bright.9160:

Like I said: pingeable templates like in GW1, and that way, everyone is satisfied.

The people that want inspect can ask the people in their team to ping their build and inspect it. You can already ping gear, so that’s not hard to inspect either. With MF going away, it’s not like people will lie about their gear in an effort to leech, so that’s a worry less.

The carebears on here that don’t want naughty elitists to look at their gear/build can decline the request of pinging their setup, and the party can choose to react to that as they please.

The benefits of templates:

• Share builds easily

• Load up builds easily instead of all the manual bull****

• Can serve as a form of voluntary inspect

• Can be used to ping internet links like in GW1

• Has absolutely not a single downside what so ever

The downsides are:

ArenaNet should not waste their time to entertain (mainly) people who are selfish and mean to new players. These people are a minority and they will not be missed.

ArenaNet should spend their time coding USEFUL features like 1st Person View, MouseLook Mode, Buy multiple items, Submit multiple quest items, fix bugs, fix glitches, etc.

Share build? Who are you trying to kid. Everyone knows the “best” build.

ParnAshwind.4823:

The downsides are:

ArenaNet should not waste their time to entertain (mainly) people who are selfish and mean to new players. These people are a minority and they will not be missed.

Yes, because I proposed templates so I can discriminate PUGs, and only because of that. Oh wait, I don’t PUG, because PUGs are trash.

Djee, why would I propose something like that then?

ParnAshwind.4823:

ArenaNet should spend their time coding USEFUL features like 1st Person View, MouseLook Mode, Buy multiple items, Submit multiple quest items, fix bugs, fix glitches, etc.

Yeah, because when Templates came out in GW1, everyone thought “well, good job Anet, what kind of useless feature is this. It’s not like this is going to make our collective lives a million times easier. God, I wish you spent your programming time making quest rewards easier to get.”

ParnAshwind.4823:

Share build? Who are you trying to kid. Everyone knows the “best” build.

Yes, because there is obviously only 1 good build for each profession. Why did I not think of that myself.

Llyren.3904:

Dustfinger.9510:

not everything is reportable. But aside from something any thick skin can solve, elitist attitude ruins communities. an idea like this has been proven time and again to only encourage elitism while providing very little benefit at all.

Everything is reportable that is not solved by being willing to communicate with others.

Shoving “the other” into “the devil” category does you no good.

/inspect has never hurt anyone, it merely fosters communication.

So, “They won’t let me play with them because I don’t meet their irrelevant and unnecessary standards,” is reportable? ANet will make them play nice?

Devil is and the devil does?

/inspect has hurt everyone who wanted to play the game the way they like but were not able to because other players felt their way was insufficient. It does not foster communication. “Tell us your build or GTFO,” is not communication. “We don’t like your build so GTFO,” is also not communication.

Bright.9160:

ParnAshwind.4823:

The downsides are:

ArenaNet should not waste their time to entertain (mainly) people who are selfish and mean to new players. These people are a minority and they will not be missed.

Yes, because I proposed templates so I can discriminate PUGs, and only because of that. Oh wait, I don’t PUG, because PUGs are trash.

My point exactly.

If you dont PUG or dont have the patience to help pugs/newbs, you are obviously running with a close group. I am sure you have no problem getting “builds” from them.

Since PUGs are all trash, why would you want to contaminate your eyes beholding trash builds?

Again, this feature has zero value and should only be coded when they have finish every other useful feature imaginable.

Sanctus.8350:

I’d like an ‘inspect’ option that only shows the base armor and weapon names (no prefix, suffix, stats, or runes/sigils), just because sometimes I see armor that I like and have no idea what it is.

This I support 100% +1

I take it you didn’t play GW1 and have absolutely no clue how amazing and life-changing the template system there was. I mean, literally, the day they introduced the template system, I wouldn’t be surprised some people spontaneously ejaculated because of how mind-numbingly awesome it was.

ParnAshwind.4823:

My point exactly.

If you dont PUG or dont have the patience to help pugs/newbs, you are obviously running with a close group. I am sure you have no problem getting “builds” from them.

Because when I trial people, or take friends of mine who are in other guilds on runs and they ask me what build they need to run, it’s pretty useful to just ping it, instead of manually having to type all of it out, and then trying to remember the numbers of all the traits they should take.

ParnAshwind.4823:

Since PUGs are all trash, why would you want to contaminate your eyes beholding trash builds?

Because if -in the off chance I do have to take a PUG to fill up a group-, they do contaminate my eyes with their trash builds, I can choose to politely ask them if they can run another build or remove them from my party. That way I don’t have to carry them, and they don’t have to “run with elitist scum”.

ParnAshwind.4823:

Again, this feature has zero value and should only be coded when they have finish every other useful feature imaginable.

God you’re thick. You have absolutely no idea how incredibly useful a template system is. It allows you to save your builds, load them up with a single click of your mouse, share your builds, ping them to people etc. I know many people that play both WvW and PvE and they always have to manually change between their WvW and PvE builds. Do you have any idea how easy it would make their lives if they could just open their list of saved builds, click “load up PvE dungeon build” or “WvW havoc build” or whatever, and having all the traits set for them immediately?

Sorry, but if you can’t see what kind of an amazingly useful feature this is, I don’t know what you find useful. Culling of other players in PvE, but not the culling of monsters? Yeah I guess that was pretty useful.

Oh wait it wasn’t.

To be honest, templates is pretty much in my top 3 of QoL features they need to implement. I’d like to see you name some features you deem more useful than it.

Bright.9160:

I take it you didn’t play GW1 and have absolutely no clue how amazing and life-changing the template system there was. I mean, literally, the day they introduced the template system, I wouldn’t be surprised some people spontaneously ejaculated because of how mind-numbingly awesome it was.

You mean the GW1 with something like hundreds of different skills, only 8 of which you could run at any one time along with skill points for “traits” that directly interacted with specific skills? So any time you changed out your skills you would probably want to replace all of your points, both of which you could do for free any time as long as you were in a city. Yeah, I can see how the ability to quickly build and save templates would be useful in a game like that, with so much variety. And I suppose I could accept the ability to link them so other people who want to emulate you can do so.

Bright.9160:

ParnAshwind.4823:

My point exactly.

If you dont PUG or dont have the patience to help pugs/newbs, you are obviously running with a close group. I am sure you have no problem getting “builds” from them.

Because when I trial people, or take friends of mine who are in other guilds on runs and they ask me what build they need to run, it’s pretty useful to just ping it, instead of manually having to type all of it out, and then trying to remember the numbers of all the traits they should take.

This is where you lose me, though. “What build they need to run.” Why should they need to run a build? What content is actually so difficult that there is requirements on such things? This is where the concept sweeps into elitism, saying that someone needs to run and play a certain way because another way is wrong.

Bright.9160:

ParnAshwind.4823:

Since PUGs are all trash, why would you want to contaminate your eyes beholding trash builds?

Because if -in the off chance I do have to take a PUG to fill up a group-, they do contaminate my eyes with their trash builds, I can choose to politely ask them if they can run another build or remove them from my party. That way I don’t have to carry them, and they don’t have to “run with elitist scum”.

Which is the problem in the first place. Way explain the oppositions point so succinctly.

Bright.9160:

ParnAshwind.4823:

Again, this feature has zero value and should only be coded when they have finish every other useful feature imaginable.

God you’re thick. You have absolutely no idea how incredibly useful a template system is. It allows you to save your builds, load them up with a single click of your mouse, share your builds, ping them to people etc. I know many people that play both WvW and PvE and they always have to manually change between their WvW and PvE builds. Do you have any idea how easy it would make their lives if they could just open their list of saved builds, click “load up PvE dungeon build” or “WvW havoc build” or whatever, and having all the traits set for them immediately?

Sorry, but if you can’t see what kind of an amazingly useful feature this is, I don’t know what you find useful. Culling of other players in PvE, but not the culling of monsters? Yeah I guess that was pretty useful.

Oh wait it wasn’t.

To be honest, templates is pretty much in my top 3 of QoL features they need to implement. I’d like to see you name some features you deem more useful than it.

See, the problem here is two very different value systems. I honestly don’t understand this need people have to swap builds. I have one build per character, that’s what I run and that is all that I run for the life of the character. If I want a different build I’ll make a different character.

So to me this system holds absolutely no value and I can’t understand why anyone would feel the need for it. But, I also understand that a lot of people do want the ability to save templates. I’m ok with that. The thing is, this isn’t a thread about building templates, regardless of what you’d like to convert it into. This is a thread about inspection, and that’s where it crosses the line. There is only one reason for inspection, (short of the minor ability to see the name of a piece of armor someone is wearing to get it yourself,) and that is elitism. The ability to tell someone they’re not good enough and to make them require your validation before they can play. That’s not what this game is about and it isn’t what it should be about.

+1 for /inspect

i don’t want it so i can judge you based on your gear, as your gear only tells a small part of the story.

It would be nice to be able to tailor my gear and skills to the gear of my teammates, without having to bother them to ping everything.

and i personally don’t have every skin memorized and dont want to alt+tab to dulfy every time i see a shiny i don’t recognize.

lastly, I understand that it is a widely held belief that /inspect promotes elitism, but please realize that /inspect can be a very useful tool, like the chat window or /join, but also has the potential for abuse, like a chat window or /join. Just because a tool can be abused doesn’t mean we should outright deny access to it.

Don’t let the small minority of jerk players ruin it for the rest of us. I’m sure they could add a “block inspect” feature or something to satisfy you guys that would prefer to not interact with other people in a multiplayer game.

Scrambles.2604:

+1 for /inspect

i don’t want it so i can judge you based on your gear, as your gear only tells a small part of the story.

It would be nice to be able to tailor my gear and skills to the gear of my teammates, without having to bother them to ping everything.

and i personally don’t have every skin memorized and dont want to alt+tab to dulfy every time i see a shiny i don’t recognize.

lastly, I understand that it is a widely held belief that /inspect promotes elitism, but please realize that /inspect can be a very useful tool, like the chat window or /join, but also has the potential for abuse, like a chat window or /join. Just because a tool can be abused doesn’t mean we should outright deny access to it.

Don’t let the small minority of jerk players ruin it for the rest of us. I’m sure they could add a “block inspect” feature or something to satisfy you guys that would prefer to not interact with other people in a multiplayer game.

The main question I have to ask is, what is the ratio of people who would abuse it vs those who would not? Also what is the general evolution of the community as a result? In my experience the ratio is typically high in favor of abuse, and the evolution is toward a less friendly and more abusive standard.

It is also my belief, based on experience and comments that those in favor of it, primarily, coincide with those who would abuse it, while those against are those who would not.

Lastly, it absolutely isn’t a desire not to interact with people. It’s a desire to not be told how I should play by other people. To not be looked down on because I play the way I like and not the way they like. And to not be belittle for that choice which is entirely mine to make.

Inspect would be fine if it had a toggle like a lot of other games. In other words it would be up to the player if they wanted to let you see their gear/build or not.

Llyren.3904:

Everything is reportable that is not solved by being willing to communicate with others.

This is not true at all. I think we have all seen plenty of trolls aggravate thin-skinned people without actually doing anything reportable.

Shoving “the other” into “the devil” category does you no good.

/inspect has never hurt anyone, it merely fosters communication.

Some people don’t need to be shoved but that isn’t my point

This theory of inspect fostering communication is pure fantasy. many games have proven time and again that inspect features foster less communication through more elitist views of “My way or the highway”. No room for discussion there. Which is why so many confuse “optimal” with "viable’. because the coveted communication doesn’t happen when elitist attitudes rule the land. And this feature promotes elitism while providing very little in return.

Scrambles.2604:

+1 for /inspect

i don’t want it so i can judge you based on your gear, as your gear only tells a small part of the story.

It would be nice to be able to tailor my gear and skills to the gear of my teammates, without having to bother them to ping everything.

and i personally don’t have every skin memorized and dont want to alt+tab to dulfy every time i see a shiny i don’t recognize.

lastly, I understand that it is a widely held belief that /inspect promotes elitism, but please realize that /inspect can be a very useful tool, like the chat window or /join, but also has the potential for abuse, like a chat window or /join. Just because a tool can be abused doesn’t mean we should outright deny access to it.

Don’t let the small minority of jerk players ruin it for the rest of us. I’m sure they could add a “block inspect” feature or something to satisfy you guys that would prefer to not interact with other people in a multiplayer game.

“You” as used here is largely meant in the third-person plural and not specifically directed at the quoted poster. That post is simply used as a starting point for the discussion that follows.

There will never be an /inspect feature. There wasn’t one in GW1, there won’t be one in GW2. Though you are right to state that /inspect is just a tool, it’s been demonstrated to be a tool that is abused by a sub-set of the player community who use it as a form of self-validating ego-stroking.

Your proposed solution of adding a “block inspect” won’t work, either. It just adds another step in the journey towards elitists dictating who gets to join the party and who doesn’t; but the destination is still the same. If players block inspections, they will be kicked by those attempting to inspect.

Now templates are another topic altogether. They are incredibly useful for quick-swapping between builds and voluntarily sharing those builds with others. The locus of control remains with the player doing the sharing, though, and not with some other player prying that information from them with an /inspect option.

Ultimately, this discussion is disingenuous. If you’re a player who supports /inspect, it’s because you have in your head preset criteria of how you think the dungeon should be run; speed-clear, specific professions, a certain set of gear, traits, skills, etc. There’s nothing wrong with that. If that’s what you want, then get your friends and guildmates together, discuss exactly the expectations of the party, then knock yourself out clearing the dungeon in record time.

But that isn’t what this is about. This is about being vague in one’s expectations – either through a deliberate failure to communicate them or due to an inability to articulate them – and then using an /inspect function to chastise other players who can’t read your mind and have not been given a clear description of what builds are desired for the run. It’s also about an unspoken assumption that the player wanting the /inspect function is somehow entitled to this information by virtue of believing themselves more skilled at the game than others and thus deserving of special treatment. Sorry to disappoint you, but the game isn’t going to cater to anyone’s Napoleon complex.

Even if those expectations have been clearly communicated and you still wind up with players in your party who don’t fit your “ideal”, that isn’t their responsibility. If you’re going to form a party with random players whom you don’t know personally, that’s the risk you take; but that’s not reason enough to support an /inspect function. If you don’t want to take that risk, then only form parties with people known to you and who can be relied upon to use the build you want them to use.

There will be no /inspect function. No matter how many posts are made on the topic, no matter how cogent the arguments may appear to those in support of it, it’s simply not going to happen. You don’t get to dictate what other players bring to the party through threat of exclusion if they don’t meet your standards. The best way to get what you want is to have an open discussion and mutual agreement among like-minded individuals who voluntarily agree to run specific builds rather than resorting to a heavy-handed, “Do it my way or GTFO!” Either adapt to that and learn to play around it or continue to experience frustration at not getting your way.

No thank you, I had enough of that elitist nonsense in WoW.

Kal Spiro.9745:

This is where you lose me, though. “What build they need to run.” Why should they need to run a build? What content is actually so difficult that there is requirements on such things? This is where the concept sweeps into elitism, saying that someone needs to run and play a certain way because another way is wrong.

The build they “need” to run, because different dungeon guilds run different team setups. We run a very specific teambuild that relies on fire fields and blast finishers, so people need to run the appropriate builds. I know that might boggle your mind, but some people actually prefer efficiency.

If I go on another guild’s dungeon run and they ask me to run their build because it fits in their team build, I’m not gonna cry like some carebear because I can’t run my special super-duper awesome self-made build, I oblige because I’m on their run and should respect their standards. It was the same in GW1 as well.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Which is the problem in the first place. Way explain the oppositions point so succinctly.

What’s the problem? That I don’t want to run with sh*tters? That’s why I proposed the templates in this thread. That way the “elitist scum” that wants an inspect feature gets it, and the carebears that want their “privacy” can have it too.

That way you can ask people for their build, and they can decline to ping it. There’s nothing wrong with that.

Kal Spiro.9745:

See, the problem here is two very different value systems. I honestly don’t understand this need people have to swap builds. I have one build per character, that’s what I run and that is all that I run for the life of the character. If I want a different build I’ll make a different character.

I don’t need something, therefor I’m pretty sure no one needs it.

Yeah, got it..

Kal Spiro.9745:

The thing is, this isn’t a thread about building templates, regardless of what you’d like to convert it into. This is a thread about inspection, and that’s where it crosses the line. There is only one reason for inspection, (short of the minor ability to see the name of a piece of armor someone is wearing to get it yourself,) and that is elitism. The ability to tell someone they’re not good enough and to make them require your validation before they can play. That’s not what this game is about and it isn’t what it should be about.

I know this isn’t a thread about templates, but I proposed them as a valid alternative to an inspect feature that can make both sides of the argument happy, and solve a lot of QoL issues as well. I don’t care if they have it take money every time you respec, or that you can only respec in towns and outposts, that wouldn’t make the feature any less awesome.

There are plenty of players that don’t play as elitists that will take sh*tters on their runs. I’ve done my fair share of carrying, and I don’t really like taking rifle warriors, staff guardians and longbow bear rangers on my runs, because they contribute next to nothing. If that makes me evil in your eyes, that’s fine for me, but I’m pretty sure that most baseball teams don’t take people that have no arms into their ranks for obvious reasons.

Only inspect I am willing to have is to tell me where a particular skin came from.

Bright.9160:

Kal Spiro.9745:

See, the problem here is two very different value systems. I honestly don’t understand this need people have to swap builds. I have one build per character, that’s what I run and that is all that I run for the life of the character. If I want a different build I’ll make a different character.

I don’t need something, therefor I’m pretty sure no one needs it.

Yeah, got it..

And this is where you lose ALL credibility, not that you had much, as you purposefully omit the part where I go on to say that I understand that there are people different than me who do want templates and that I don’t have a problem with it. Just so you could make a snarky remark that seems legitimate, despite being completely contrary to what I actually had to say.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

Ultimately, this discussion is disingenuous. If you’re a player who supports /inspect, it’s because you have in your head preset criteria of how you think the dungeon should be run; speed-clear, specific professions, a certain set of gear, traits, skills, etc. There’s nothing wrong with that. If that’s what you want, then get your friends and guildmates together, discuss exactly the expectations of the party, then knock yourself out clearing the dungeon in record time.
But that isn’t what this is about. This is about being vague in one’s expectations – either through a deliberate failure to communicate them or due to an inability to articulate them – and then using an /inspect function to chastise other players who can’t read your mind and have not been given a clear description of what builds are desired for the run. It’s also about an unspoken assumption that the player wanting the /inspect function is somehow entitled to this information by virtue of believing themselves more skilled at the game than others and thus deserving of special treatment. Sorry to disappoint you, but the game isn’t going to cater to anyone’s Napoleon complex.
Even if those expectations have been clearly communicated and you still wind up with players in your party who don’t fit your “ideal”, that isn’t their responsibility. If you’re going to form a party with random players whom you don’t know personally, that’s the risk you take; but that’s not reason enough to support an /inspect function. If you don’t want to take that risk, then only form parties with people known to you and who can be relied upon to use the build you want them to use.
There will be no /inspect function. No matter how many posts are made on the topic, no matter how cogent the arguments may appear to those in support of it, it’s simply not going to happen. You don’t get to dictate what other players bring to the party through threat of exclusion if they don’t meet your standards. The best way to get what you want is to have an open discussion and mutual agreement among like-minded individuals who voluntarily agree to run specific builds rather than resorting to a heavy-handed, “Do it my way or GTFO!” Either adapt to that and learn to play around it or continue to experience frustration at not getting your way.

it’s a little narrow minded to assume everyone that wants /inspect wants to use it to deny people access to groups. Some will do that, and already do with all zerker groups.

You can essentially already /inspect by asking someone to ping their gear. If there is a work around for /inspect, why not just optimize the feature so you dont have to constantly nag other people to ping their gear, without even a 100% guarantee that they will show you or respond.

I think just being able to silently /inspect someone without anyone noticing is the most unobtrusive way to go about it. People may use it to deny you groups, but honestly if i accidentally stumbled into a group that posted “LF1M ALL ZERKER” i’d rather they identify me and ask me to leave immediately than harass me half way through the run because i’m not pulling my weight.

/inspect wont suddenly make you an elitist. The people that will abuse it are the same people that call you out for crap gear and berrate you for poor play already. I prefer not to group with those people, and honestly /inspect would help me avoid these encounters.

Kal Spiro.9745:

The main question I have to ask is, what is the ratio of people who would abuse it vs those who would not? Also what is the general evolution of the community as a result? In my experience the ratio is typically high in favor of abuse, and the evolution is toward a less friendly and more abusive standard.

It is also my belief, based on experience and comments that those in favor of it, primarily, coincide with those who would abuse it, while those against are those who would not.

Lastly, it absolutely isn’t a desire not to interact with people. It’s a desire to not be told how I should play by other people. To not be looked down on because I play the way I like and not the way they like. And to not be belittle for that choice which is entirely mine to make.

Its hard to determine a ratio, because:

1) you would have to poll the entire player base with a reliable measure to determine “proclivity towards elitism.”

2) you don’t notice the players that “use /inspect” correctly, because correct use implies they did not impede your gameplay in anyway, therefore, how would you notice when someone uses it correctly?

On the otherhand, players that use /inspect “incorretly” are the players that go out of their way to make your life miserable, so they stick out more in your memory, and are perceived as a greater percentage.

Scrambles.2604:

Kal Spiro.9745:

The main question I have to ask is, what is the ratio of people who would abuse it vs those who would not? Also what is the general evolution of the community as a result? In my experience the ratio is typically high in favor of abuse, and the evolution is toward a less friendly and more abusive standard.

It is also my belief, based on experience and comments that those in favor of it, primarily, coincide with those who would abuse it, while those against are those who would not.

Lastly, it absolutely isn’t a desire not to interact with people. It’s a desire to not be told how I should play by other people. To not be looked down on because I play the way I like and not the way they like. And to not be belittle for that choice which is entirely mine to make.

Its hard to determine a ratio, because:

1) you would have to poll the entire player base with a reliable measure to determine “proclivity towards elitism.”

2) you don’t notice the players that “use /inspect” correctly, because correct use implies they did not impede your gameplay in anyway, therefore, how would you notice when someone uses it correctly?

On the otherhand, players that use /inspect “incorretly” are the players that go out of their way to make your life miserable, so they stick out more in your memory, and are perceived as a greater percentage.

How dare you use reasoned argument!

Scrambles.2604:

it’s a little narrow minded to assume everyone that wants /inspect wants to use it to deny people access to groups. Some will do that, and already do with all zerker groups.

You can essentially already /inspect by asking someone to ping their gear. If there is a work around for /inspect, why not just optimize the feature so you dont have to constantly nag other people to ping their gear, without even a 100% guarantee that they will show you or respond.

I think just being able to silently /inspect someone without anyone noticing is the most unobtrusive way to go about it. People may use it to deny you groups, but honestly if i accidentally stumbled into a group that posted “LF1M ALL ZERKER” i’d rather they identify me and ask me to leave immediately than harass me half way through the run because i’m not pulling my weight.

/inspect wont suddenly make you an elitist. The people that will abuse it are the same people that call you out for crap gear and berrate you for poor play already. I prefer not to group with those people, and honestly /inspect would help me avoid these encounters.

I don’t think those of us who oppose it are saying everyone who wants it is specificly to use it for elitism. (Though, you can put money on some posters just by how abusive they try to be while talking about it) What we are saying is that history has proven that this is what eventually happens because it caters to that elitism.

So it really comes down to which attitude dominates the community. One where elitists are restricted to their own little corners of the world, or one where everyone else is restricted to their own little corners of the world. I prefer it if elitists do their own thing without imposing on me. Since their philosophy is based on imposing where as non-elitism is not.

Scrambles.2604:

Its hard to determine a ratio, because:

1) you would have to poll the entire player base with a reliable measure to determine “proclivity towards elitism.”

2) you don’t notice the players that “use /inspect” correctly, because correct use implies they did not impede your gameplay in anyway, therefore, how would you notice when someone uses it correctly?

On the otherhand, players that use /inspect “incorretly” are the players that go out of their way to make your life miserable, so they stick out more in your memory, and are perceived as a greater percentage.

it’s not too hard. We have seen how it effects whole gaming communities time and time again. So even if the non-elitists are the silent majority, the actualized effect is that it tends to dominate.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Llyren.3904:

Dustfinger.9510:

not everything is reportable. But aside from something any thick skin can solve, elitist attitude ruins communities. an idea like this has been proven time and again to only encourage elitism while providing very little benefit at all.

Everything is reportable that is not solved by being willing to communicate with others.

Shoving “the other” into “the devil” category does you no good.

/inspect has never hurt anyone, it merely fosters communication.

So, “They won’t let me play with them because I don’t meet their irrelevant and unnecessary standards,” is reportable? ANet will make them play nice?

Devil is and the devil does?

/inspect has hurt everyone who wanted to play the game the way they like but were not able to because other players felt their way was insufficient. It does not foster communication. “Tell us your build or GTFO,” is not communication. “We don’t like your build so GTFO,” is also not communication.

“They won’t let me play with them” is solved by communication. They want X build, I am unwilling to play with X build. Ok then, we’ll go our separate ways. We are all here for our own enjoyment, and not hired entertainers or tour guides.

“Tell us your build or GetTheSwearingOut” is solved by /report.

There where more statements or questions like “People who think that inspecting is not used to weed out people without giving them a chance are delusional.”“Devil is as Devil does”

The above is solved by communication. Sometimes you will need to advertise your own purposes and form your own groups to find like minded players. Do not play with those you view as “the devil” That will only ruin your own happy fun playtime.

Llyren.3904:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Llyren.3904:

Dustfinger.9510:

not everything is reportable. But aside from something any thick skin can solve, elitist attitude ruins communities. an idea like this has been proven time and again to only encourage elitism while providing very little benefit at all.

Everything is reportable that is not solved by being willing to communicate with others.

Shoving “the other” into “the devil” category does you no good.

/inspect has never hurt anyone, it merely fosters communication.

So, “They won’t let me play with them because I don’t meet their irrelevant and unnecessary standards,” is reportable? ANet will make them play nice?

Devil is and the devil does?

/inspect has hurt everyone who wanted to play the game the way they like but were not able to because other players felt their way was insufficient. It does not foster communication. “Tell us your build or GTFO,” is not communication. “We don’t like your build so GTFO,” is also not communication.

“They won’t let me play with them” is solved by communication. They want X build, I am unwilling to play with X build. Ok then, we’ll go our separate ways. We are all here for our own enjoyment, and not hired entertainers or tour guides.

“Tell us your build or GetTheSwearingOut” is solved by /report.

There where more statements or questions like “People who think that inspecting is not used to weed out people without giving them a chance are delusional.”“Devil is as Devil does”

The above is solved by communication. Sometimes you will need to advertise your own purposes and form your own groups to find like minded players. Do not play with those you view as “the devil” That will only ruin your own happy fun playtime.

OR, you could just not have /inspect and save everyone the trouble. That seems like the best option.

I concurr. Everyone should have access to everyone’s information, including how much gems, gold, tokens they have and which achievements they completed and what they have in the bank.

I’m all up for an open GW2 community. No need to hide.

Shpongle.6025:

I concurr. Everyone should have access to everyone’s information, including how much gems, gold, tokens they have and which achievements they completed and what they have in the bank.

I’m all up for an open GW2 community. No need to hide.

The slippery slope is strong in this one…

Oh look this thread again. Well I do support inspect feature in GW2. I’d love to see the skins people are using on their weapons / armor (and maybe dyes). Comparing achievements, seeing their gold, or any sort of “deep inspect” feature I can live without.

I just want to be able to see people’s weapon and armor skins without having to ask them – especially since most of the time I see cool armor it’s people standing Akitten Lions Arch.

I’m not against the template that someone asks me to accept his inspection request.
If he wants to see my gear/traits/achievements, I can choose yes or no.
Stalking people’s gear and traits without permission maybe break privacy so at least make inspection requests but do it. I have to who do I add to a dungeon group.
That’s a basic option in MMORPG, people wear wrong items for anything shall break their head a bit and advance a bit

Draco.9480:

I’m not against the template that someone asks me to accept his inspection request.
If he wants to see my gear/traits/achievements, I can choose yes or no.
Stalking people’s gear and traits without permission maybe break privacy so at least make inspection requests but do it. I have to who do I add to a dungeon group.
That’s a basic option in MMORPG, people wear wrong items for anything shall break their head a bit and advance a bit

The templates aren’t an inspection request. They were a tool in GW1 that would allow you to save all your builds and setups in a list. Then, when you were in a town, you could just open up your templates and load up the build you wanted to use.

You could also “ping” your build or a template of a build in chats, just like you can ping your gear right now. It was super easy. When you were doing high-end PvE with organized team setups, every single guild had their own teambuilds etc. Let’s say we invited someone from another guild, or we trial’ed someone, we could just ping the build, and they could click “load” on the popup and their skills and attribute points (something like traits, but they directly affected skills) would change to the build you just posted.

That way, you can ask people to ping their builds in chat and you can look for yourself. That way we have a form of inspect (although that’s not even the reason I want templates, it’s just a side effect), and people retain their privacy.

Bright.9160:

Shpongle.6025:

I concurr. Everyone should have access to everyone’s information, including how much gems, gold, tokens they have and which achievements they completed and what they have in the bank.

I’m all up for an open GW2 community. No need to hide.

The slippery slope is strong in this one…

Actually, fine with it going that far. I’d like to be able to track my own achievements by individually located spot for some of the exploration ones. I don’t care if you have an in game way to verify I have done what I say I have done. I’m for it actually.

Let it show how much cash I have spent on gems as well, even hours played, per class or total.

Home address and real life name might be a bit much, as there can be Minors present, and some jobs are weird about hiring gamers. Email would be an Account Security risk.

Naw. Mind your own business ppl.

Might as well item scores, that way we can quantitatively judge people. >_>

diversecape.1465:

Naw. Mind your own business ppl.

Might as well item scores, that way we can quantitatively judge people. >_>

Gearscores served a purpose in WoW, although sometimes it was utilized more maliciously. But the way dungeons in WoW were designed, you had to run X dungeon enough times to get gear good enough to run the next dungeon.

In GW2, if you can dodge at the right times you don’t even need gear to complete the dungeon. The only real barrier to entry for dungeons is your level. You can do AC at 35 but you still might get booted if the group wants all 80s.

So, yes, “might as well at item scores,” but it wouldn’t serve a purpose. Stats on gear in GW2 indicate what type of player you may but, but doesn’t dictate that. If you have a lot of condition damage on gear then chances are you run for condition damage. If you run a lot of vita/toughness, chances are you prefer a safe run over doing the most damage possible.

So, i wont object to your “mind your own business” since that’s your opinion, but trying to utilize the “slippery slope towards gearscore” approach is ridiculous and unreasonable.