Guild Wars 2

I normally dont like nerfing since I see all classes to be pretty balanced. Thoug I would like to nerf stealth, since it firstly, isnt like what Arena Net would like/said it would be like. and secondly how i look at it, and everyone else. I even think thiefs would agree on my topic.
Stealth in other MMO´s is mainly pretty scary, and hard. In this game its mainly annoying, its like having a bug on you that you try to throw away….no offence, but true for everyone who dont have a thief as a main.
I want a stealth system, that help us being a bit more affraid of thiefs and in the same time stop the annoying part of stealth.
I like that thiefs are 100% stealth, even when they are close, and it really should be there. But the way it is used now i would like to suggest 2 thief abilites, 1 to get into battle and 1 to get out of battle or just finish the other one off. The one to get out of battle could have a 10-20 secs duration while stealthed. While the get into battle could have a 5-15 secs, thiese stealths sould be having around 30 secs – 1 min cooldown. The 10 sec AOE stealth should be there btw. If you increase the dmg done into stealth a bit more, and give us different abilities , or 1 which will give everyone in stealth huge dmg while in stealth for. if that happen, it will, increase the thiefs stealth form, beside that, it would be pretty awesome to have a thief in a dungeons, since they could stealth all the team to the boss…..I think you get the point. The thief, should have a limit of 5 people in that AOE, since the damage output done, could be pretty harsh. The stealth form is still there while taking dmg, like it is now. I have made some Pros and cons regarding non thief users and thief users, since I really would like a fair argument regarding the stealth upgrade/nerf.

Pros:
for non thief users, finally a way to get a real battle out of a thief. Dont really have to worrie about if the thief pop 3 stealths to run away.
Cons:
Thiefs will be a pretty good class, it will mean we have to be carefull of where we step. Since they got 2-3 stealths, it can be almost death if you walk into their AOE stealth.

Pros for thifs: People wont just see them as annoying anymore, and actually fear them (not really a pros if you dont care). Thifs will be included more in dungeons. There will be more tactics for ussing stealth, instead of just when you take dmg/ need to heal.

Cons:
cant stealth out of a zerg/run away from people.
Cant stealth spam? I dont know if that is a bad thing, since it will be more strategy to pop the 1st 2nd or AOE stealth.

No, I personally dont see stealth like thiefs only way to do anything. Also proven wrong by a few other builds with non stealth. But I do think it should be something thiefs seriously are good at, if they give them stealth.

~ Thank you for reading this suggestion
I would really like your to read what your thinking regarding nerfing/upgrading stealth, and please no “if we do that, then lets remove clones from mesmers or only give the elementalist 1 element which they can choose from.” because…..its clearly not the same, and it would just spam the suggestion by doing so.

Con: non-burst builds that focus on Tactic Strike or Sneak Attack are now unusable.
People really need to realize half the stealth sets in this game are not burst sets. Long cooldowns are fine for bursters, but crippling to condi and control specs.

Dual.8953:

Con: non-burst builds that focus on Tactic Strike or Sneak Attack are now unusable.
People really need to realize half the stealth sets in this game are not burst sets. Long cooldowns are fine for bursters, but crippling to condi and control specs.

I would rather call them improved. My idea is to simply change that stealth build to a more tactical level. I forgot to write how it works, sorry about that. What I wrote befour is 1 of the builds I have in mind. The Burst build as you wrote. If you change the traits to a more of a small amount of damage, but alot of it. Like your examples, the stealth form would change to a buff, or something more like extra damage with sneak attack or tactic strike.

My main idea is to change the way they put stealth out in. How to balance it, was more of another small suggestion, like the dungeon part. Right now it is really a mess when you play with/against a thief. its less tactical, and really almost no joy. I am not saying that thiefs should be nerfed at all, I actually hope they get a buff, but the way stealth is mainly used in this game is kind of bad. Thats why I really hope for buff for thiefs, and a nerf for stealth, not the removing stealth, or easely taking seeing people in stealth, but a buff/nerf that makes stealth intact, but not that annoying and add more strategy.

I would mainly say this is WvW, in PvP our main target is points, and pretty clear that running after a thief, is just asking to lose. And thiefs who are in stealth cant get the points, pretty bad again in 1v1 thoug.
WvW is mainly also taking camps etc, but some people, like me, see it sometimes like a big PvP field, and also finding some1 in the way to a camp or something to fight with. Right now I am just ignoring a thief, if I see one. Thoug pretty sad if its like that all the time.
In dungeons: having a thief with you is better than nothing, but its also one of the classes which are the lowest wanted in dungeons, if not a friend. I wouldnt say that they are worthless, or alot lower than other classes, but it is a better to have some of the other professions in.

It is something Arena Net really needs to look into, I am again not asking to break the Thief proffession in any way, actualy hoping they get buffed.

I’m afraid I couldn’t understand your explanation, but I’ll just say this:
If thieves can still use stealth to almost infallibly escape from any battle once they realise they’re losing, stealth is still broken.

This would require TONS of redesign you know…
D/D will be useless…
D/P will be useless…
P/D will be useless…
S/D would just be useable…
shortbow already sucks
S/P is a root which dont fit thieves….

Black powder, shadowrefuge, yeah you got the point, you could add a a elite skil which allowed offhand sword idk, but this wont work without propper buffs and redesign, and more versatlity, no thief other than s/D will work with this nerf…

Stealth isn’t a realm in this game, its a distraction. At best, the only thing I believe stealth needs adjusting in is increased stealth duration, increased revealed time by a couple seconds. I don’t think 20 seconds of stealth or only allowing ooc stealth would work, because soooo many traits are centered on entering stealth.

Or, you know, everyone could learn how to fight against stealth?

Its surprisingly easy.

NinjaEd.3946:

Stealth isn’t a realm in this game, its a distraction. At best, the only thing I believe stealth needs adjusting in is increased stealth duration, increased revealed time by a couple seconds. I don’t think 20 seconds of stealth or only allowing ooc stealth would work, because soooo many traits are centered on entering stealth.

Agree, that would give the thief more possibilities for infiltrate and give them a better deffensive,which is really necessary, on the other side (Backstab) thiefs will lost many dmg, but this would make the way free to increase their basedmg. And this stupid “OP QQ” finds an end.

But if they do this they have to increase our base hp, because we have then less capabilities do reduce dmg. This were the best way to compensable it.

Reacting to a stealth enemy is a “learn to play” issue. I know this from experience as I was once a person who would rage over these perma-stealthing thieves, but now I find stealth to be a nearly balanced gameplay element. The only thing I would do with stealth is remove it’s ability to stack and just make it refresh (like Immobilize), forcing skilled usage of stealth and end talentless spamming for duration.

I actually think that Stealth should be improved for classes other than Thief, since as it stands the thief gains a profession unique ability while stealthed that no other class does. This is the primary reason why when people talk about stealth, they’re actually just talking about how Thieves use stealth and not how a Mesmer or Engineer or any other class uses it.

For just a moment imagine there’s no Thief class, but stealth is still very much a part of the game, and I’m fairly certain in that moment you’ll have no complaints. You really just need to learn to out play Thieves, which has a whole lot to do with CC of the AoE variety, then when they use dagger storm out of frustration/desperation, just block/reflect/dodge until it’s over…unless you play necro in which case you rip stability and fear them…preferably off a cliff for optimal effect.

Long and short of it is stealth is very nearly balanced and it just needs to require skillful play from it’s most notorious users/abusers, the Thief, by no longer stacking in duration. Perhaps providing an extra buff to other professions who become stealthed (Guardians blind with their next attack, Rangers gain Attack of Opportunity for their next attack, and so on) would even out the disparity as well.

Zacchary.6183:

Or, you know, everyone could learn how to fight against stealth?

Its surprisingly easy.

I know its easy, I wrote that to……Which makes me unsure if you read the suggestion at all be4 writing? I am not saying it is hard, just makes the gameplay alot more annoying, mainly against a thief. It is not based on mind anymore, it just feels like fighting with a thief is a waste of time. Also with a thief, it is pretty distracting, instead of making it what it really should be like. Both in what Arena Net said from the start.

Big Tower.5423:

This would require TONS of redesign you know…
D/D will be useless…
D/P will be useless…
P/D will be useless…
S/D would just be useable…
shortbow already sucks
S/P is a root which dont fit thieves….

Black powder, shadowrefuge, yeah you got the point, you could add a a elite skil which allowed offhand sword idk, but this wont work without propper buffs and redesign, and more versatlity, no thief other than s/D will work with this nerf…

I know it might be pretty impossible since Arena Net have to change it all..That is kinda sad

Obscure One.4357:

Reacting to a stealth enemy is a “learn to play” issue. I know this from experience as I was once a person who would rage over these perma-stealthing thieves, but now I find stealth to be a nearly balanced gameplay element. The only thing I would do with stealth is remove it’s ability to stack and just make it refresh (like Immobilize), forcing skilled usage of stealth and end talentless spamming for duration.

I actually think that Stealth should be improved for classes other than Thief, since as it stands the thief gains a profession unique ability while stealthed that no other class does. This is the primary reason why when people talk about stealth, they’re actually just talking about how Thieves use stealth and not how a Mesmer or Engineer or any other class uses it.

For just a moment imagine there’s no Thief class, but stealth is still very much a part of the game, and I’m fairly certain in that moment you’ll have no complaints. You really just need to learn to out play Thieves, which has a whole lot to do with CC of the AoE variety, then when they use dagger storm out of frustration/desperation, just block/reflect/dodge until it’s over…unless you play necro in which case you rip stability and fear them…preferably off a cliff for optimal effect.

Long and short of it is stealth is very nearly balanced and it just needs to require skillful play from it’s most notorious users/abusers, the Thief, by no longer stacking in duration. Perhaps providing an extra buff to other professions who become stealthed (Guardians blind with their next attack, Rangers gain Attack of Opportunity for their next attack, and so on) would even out the disparity as well.

Your topic couldnt be more spot on what I was thinking, its not that thiefs are OP or anything, because I mainly play a Ele bunker, which do alot of AoE burst. Its just that the stealth should be corrected, something like I wrote, just with your words. I dont intend to remove stealth at all, call it a upgrade or a nerf, it is mainly how you look at it. Right now its a few seconds, and no really buff by stealthing, I want different buffs to come up, and a burst skill, to the burst builds. Wrote about the buffs/extra dmg everyone could get, so a stealth thief is alot more welcome in dungeons to.

NinjaEd.3946:

Stealth isn’t a realm in this game, its a distraction. At best, the only thing I believe stealth needs adjusting in is increased stealth duration, increased revealed time by a couple seconds. I don’t think 20 seconds of stealth or only allowing ooc stealth would work, because soooo many traits are centered on entering stealth.

as a non thief player (well… my thief is 4x) i would dislike this trade off; shorter (well… current) stealth has meant i get glimpses of enemies before they get too far away

Dont nerf it just give other classes abilities to counter it.

alamore.1974:

Dont nerf it just give other classes abilities to counter it.

I wouldnt like other classes to be able to counter it, first of all, thoese who run a stealth build is nessecary, if everyone can counter that, it would be pretty weak, and not how Arena Net intend it to be.
If some get this skill, it will mainly be, who can counter thiefs in other words, there will be a direct build to counter any stealth thief, which would wreck thiefs even more than it is now. Beside that, the thiefs only have a stealth that is about max 10 second, and thats only the AoE stealth. if we can see them, or counter that, the thiefs wouldnt have any need to go stealth build.
I only want a more strategy way of ussing stealth, instead of almost spamming it when small dmg is comming.
This way the thiefs will be able to get more unique and scary, and also alot more welcome everywhere. The thiefs that have been reading what I wrote seems like they like this idea, problem is that it will be a whole remaking thiefs, which is also a bit sad, since it might not happen

Biggest problem I’m seeing is no one seems to realize there is two ways thief uses stealth that are pretty much opposite to each other. All the dagger main hand builds operate best with long stealths in which they build set up for their bursts. Sword/Dagger and Pistol/Dagger on the other hand don’t have high damage single strike stealth skills like Backstab; Sword/Dagger has Tactical Strike which blinds from the front or dazes from behind; Pistol/Dagger has Surprise Attack which stacks bleeds. S/D would suffer from a massive loss to it’s ability to CC if revealed was increased (that 4 sec revealed from a few months back nearly broke the spec) and P/D would suffer a massive loss in its Condi DPS. Both these specs were designed to use their stealth attack as often as possible and rarely maintained their stealth for the whole duration.

zengara.8301:

alamore.1974:

Dont nerf it just give other classes abilities to counter it.

I wouldnt like other classes to be able to counter it, first of all, thoese who run a stealth build is nessecary, if everyone can counter that, it would be pretty weak, and not how Arena Net intend it to be.
If some get this skill, it will mainly be, who can counter thiefs in other words, there will be a direct build to counter any stealth thief, which would wreck thiefs even more than it is now. Beside that, the thiefs only have a stealth that is about max 10 second, and thats only the AoE stealth. if we can see them, or counter that, the thiefs wouldnt have any need to go stealth build.
I only want a more strategy way of ussing stealth, instead of almost spamming it when small dmg is comming.
This way the thiefs will be able to get more unique and scary, and also alot more welcome everywhere. The thiefs that have been reading what I wrote seems like they like this idea, problem is that it will be a whole remaking thiefs, which is also a bit sad, since it might not happen

Not every one will be running stealth counter builds. If you do you would lose something else.
Go to the warrior forums read the one about blocking. Theifs stealths and warrior uses block skill and theif doesnt un stealth do all theif does is spamm his shills till block is over. I understand relying on stealth but in its current state its to strong. Im assuming your main is a theif

alamore.1974:

zengara.8301:

alamore.1974:

Dont nerf it just give other classes abilities to counter it.

I wouldnt like other classes to be able to counter it, first of all, thoese who run a stealth build is nessecary, if everyone can counter that, it would be pretty weak, and not how Arena Net intend it to be.
If some get this skill, it will mainly be, who can counter thiefs in other words, there will be a direct build to counter any stealth thief, which would wreck thiefs even more than it is now. Beside that, the thiefs only have a stealth that is about max 10 second, and thats only the AoE stealth. if we can see them, or counter that, the thiefs wouldnt have any need to go stealth build.
I only want a more strategy way of ussing stealth, instead of almost spamming it when small dmg is comming.
This way the thiefs will be able to get more unique and scary, and also alot more welcome everywhere. The thiefs that have been reading what I wrote seems like they like this idea, problem is that it will be a whole remaking thiefs, which is also a bit sad, since it might not happen

Not every one will be running stealth counter builds. If you do you would lose something else.
Go to the warrior forums read the one about blocking. Theifs stealths and warrior uses block skill and theif doesnt un stealth do all theif does is spamm his shills till block is over. I understand relying on stealth but in its current state its to strong. Im assuming your main is a theif

You must have missunderstood me, what I meant is that there isnt really a reason for making a direct counter to a stealth in anyway, it is just wrong, especially if thiese builds rely on stealth, which will put them on the last to want builds. I dont want some other class have a + or anything to be able to counter stealth, I simply want stealth exchanged since it wont end up with being so imbalanced as the give stealth a counter idea.
Stealth is not strong, stealth is only and just annoying, im assuming you dont have a thief? + that you didnt read my suggestion at all -.-….

Btw, no, I dont have a thief as a main, I got a elementalist bunker, which also means I find fighting stealth based thiefs ofc not in anyway OP because my AoE burst.

For the people who have tried a thief, for actually knowing them a bit more, will find it pretty easy to guess what the thief is doing while in stealth.

Dual.8953:

Biggest problem I’m seeing is no one seems to realize there is two ways thief uses stealth that are pretty much opposite to each other. All the dagger main hand builds operate best with long stealths in which they build set up for their bursts. Sword/Dagger and Pistol/Dagger on the other hand don’t have high damage single strike stealth skills like Backstab; Sword/Dagger has Tactical Strike which blinds from the front or dazes from behind; Pistol/Dagger has Surprise Attack which stacks bleeds. S/D would suffer from a massive loss to it’s ability to CC if revealed was increased (that 4 sec revealed from a few months back nearly broke the spec) and P/D would suffer a massive loss in its Condi DPS. Both these specs were designed to use their stealth attack as often as possible and rarely maintained their stealth for the whole duration.

Yeah, basecly just want a longer duration and maybe a better dmg system to stealth. Look at suggestion plz :P