Guild Wars 2

Nekroseth.5186:

ahhhaaaa i see. Whell anyway. If you so wish Cihandar, the post could be sorted out, but i suggest you collect the constructive and positive posts, that add something atleast to the class, or help in the concept or detail it, and only post those in order.

This way it would stil lhave quite a lot of detail, and comments and thouts, but would cut out the “spam”
Trough might require the deletion of THIS topic. (whitch i find not a really good idea.)
But anyway.

Okay then just 1 or 2 subtopics wont make moderators angry I think.

this topic is fine to work in. we can still continue as is. Cihanda if you can edit your first couple of posts with updated information, it’ll help keep information in one place and update as needed.

I’m taking a look at the skills you posted before nekroseth.

Also something that we should do is think about the names of the trait lines.

Added a few concept arts, they are on page 2 here are some more :
Swarm of rats included

Guys I really have limited space. :/ Thats why I’ve removed a lot of features. I can’t even add those Disciplines (kits like engineer or attunements like ele)

For traits i thout up some, but clearly cant detail the lines or what they do till we get some skillsets concreted to the ground atleast

Concentration : Concentration-Expertise (boon duration—-condition duration) The arcanist power comes trough tappin on Arcane power (mostly). The greater his concentration can be in battle to do that, the more powerfull his skills are. And the greater wound (bleed, poison) they can inflict. —Clearly fitting--

Sense : Precision- Prowless (crit chance—-crit dmg). The Arcanist senses the magic araund him trough the arcane, trough practice his senses also became sharper, and become able to place his spells more carefully and percise.

The path : Power-Way (power—-Class special) The arcanist aim is to gain arcane and magicile power, trough the paths that are available to him. The better he walks the paths to power the more power he has. Quite simple.

I am not sure on the rest and on combinations. Mostly only on concept.

Hmm whell… can you move posts to another topic? By that i mean whole post with attached stuff?

If you can as sead above you should move the constructive ones there, and make like 3-4 first post as your post with them. Simply quoting them.

If not, can you make another post under your own first post? If so then simply put them all there, in like 3-4 post. If still not working, then i make another thread and ctrl plus c all the buildfull posts in order….

Nekroseth.5186:

Hmm whell… can you move posts to another topic? By that i mean whole post with attached stuff?

If you can as sead above you should move the constructive ones there, and make like 3-4 first post as your post with them. Simply quoting them.

If not, can you make another post under your own first post? If so then simply put them all there, in like 3-4 post. If still not working, then i make another thread and ctrl plus c all the buildfull posts in order….

Ok i’ll try it later. I’ll keep it in mind.

castlemanic.3198:

my comment was only in regards to a secret society. New classes should be added, but the lore has to fit.

Agreed this is why i said if an arcanist was added it should be because of the Priory finding scrolls or something of the sort in Orr. Its also why i mentioned Temporal Distortion being a must as lord Odran is described as an arcanist who specialized in it . The only reason one can enter the mists is because when Odran died the wards he put on his portals to mists failed giving access to everyone .

Adine.2184:

castlemanic.3198:

my comment was only in regards to a secret society. New classes should be added, but the lore has to fit.

Agreed this is why i said if an arcanist was added it should be because of the Priory finding scrolls or something of the sort in Orr. Its also why i mentioned Temporal Distortion being a must as lord Odran is described as an arcanist who specialized in it . The only reason one can enter the mists is because when Odran died the wards he put on his portals to mists failed giving access to everyone .

Balthazar stood in lions arch and opened access to the mists. It had nothing to do with Odran.

also, leave temporal distortion and such to the potential chronomancers is my opinion.

“Historical records claim that what ancient Ritualists used was not magic but merely had similar effects. "

Basically gives a free hand to design mostly anything, if they are not considered “classical magic”. And there are good resons for it, like a good backup story, or theme.

“The specific school each profession utilizes is not completely certain. "

Another point to the fact there are 3 caster classes currently, but ranger,ritualist, paragon, dervish and even assasin (shadow magic) can use some sort of spells or magic, that are clearly not themed araund only araund 1 of the following :

Preservation, Destruction, Aggression, and Denial

It is quite big topic actually, since MANY things can be considered destruction, but a fireball clearly is, and healing waters are clearly perservation, so its quite of paradoxal lore.

It cant even by explained or EXUSED by saying its indirect, because if you create simply water….it wont heal anyone -_- its just water even if created by magic.

BESIDES AND MOST IMPORTANTLY ! If there are only the 4 schools as mentioned above, there are MANY spells that wont fit any of them. For example if creating water is not restorative its simply water, then it is not in any of the schools, so casters should not be able to use a magic that can create water!!!!!!!!!!!!!* If it is a school, since it heals, the caster should not be able to cast ANY magic that is harmfull, unless it is undirect, like : he can purify things ( preservation) and purifyes an undead that will get harmed by it. But Clearly a fireball is QUITE a direct harm!!!

I am not sure if it is an error of the lore, or its just oudated to GW2- might have worked for most cases in gw1. But most seem to be only exuses to me….

And even trough the : Preservation, Destruction, Aggression, and Denial fit totally to the OLD classes in gw1 – Monk,Ele,Necro,Mesmer- But EVEN like that its wrong, since if Ele is Destruction, then why does he have a clearly preserving Stone armor, or armor of mist, that deals no damage at all, only protects.

I doo see a LOT of specialtions on wiki on the same topic, but they are clearly not something big official lore, like the topic on wiki.

“The last case of magic existing before the gods granted it is the war between the Mursaat and the Seers which occurred before the gods and humanity arrived on the world.² The Seers were defeated through the spell Spectral Agony, showing that the Mursaat had magic independent of the gods. "

Basically another exuse that anything can be implemented if explained right -_-

So basically the devs can implement anything, they have good exuses to make anything they like, unlike us, since we dont know what we can dare or should suggest.
untill there is a clear official post on this topic, nothing that is centered araund magic can be detailed -_-

I dont wanted to quarrel on this topic again, but it REALLY bothered me.
I think the Destruction themed Arcanist is a good idea, and should be implemented. The devs make exuses if they want anyway, or delete skills or parts if they dont see it fit anyway, with any exuse they want. They can do it! They are the devs.

I don’t think you understood the word emulate. The word emulate means to imitate. What this means is that they can create effects that are similar to other themes of magic, but in the manner that is representive of their spells. While water has some healing effects, it also has a ton of destructive effects too, but they are capable of giving that water healing properties. Same thing with earth. Hurl a rock at an enemy and it hurts, bring up a barrier of rocks and its protective. So while it’s all still destruction magic, they are able to fully master destructive magic to make it have effects that are similar to preservation magic. The same in reverse, while guardians use preservation magic to heal and protect, they are able to master preservation magic to achieve effects similar to destruction.

also http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Spellcaster, it directly states that mesmers use denial, necromancers use agression etc.etc.

It’s all pretty clear considering:

Elementalists were the best of the spellcasters at dealing raw damage.
monks were the best of the spellcasters at healing and protecting allies.
mesmers were the best at denying the enemy of their magic and their fighting capabilities.
Necromancers were the best at agressively harming the enemy through minions and overtime spells.

So there is obvious clues as to what classes use what stone of magic. And over 250 years each class has clearly developed their use of the category of magic and learned to fully utilise it’s potential to achieve feats that are similar to other categories of magic, but they won’t be as effective as the other classes.

And again you missed the point. Rangers (im assuming for GW2 since there is more evidence towards it), dervish and paragons all use preservation magic to heal allies and protect them. Assassins use denial magic to deny the enemy of their ability to attack the assassin. Preservation magic does not mean that sphere of magic can only heal and do nothing else. Destruction magic does not mean it can only destroy things and nothing else.

the ONLY one that doesnt fall in that category is the ritualist, but again their ‘magic’ is too similar to preservation magic. I’d assume the same could be said about the mursaat and their spectral agony. It’s very clear that spectral agony cannot be removed or resisted by magic, meaning that there are other factors to their spectral agony to achieve a feat similar to magic.

castlemanic.3198:

Adine.2184:

castlemanic.3198:

my comment was only in regards to a secret society. New classes should be added, but the lore has to fit.

Agreed this is why i said if an arcanist was added it should be because of the Priory finding scrolls or something of the sort in Orr. Its also why i mentioned Temporal Distortion being a must as lord Odran is described as an arcanist who specialized in it . The only reason one can enter the mists is because when Odran died the wards he put on his portals to mists failed giving access to everyone .

Balthazar stood in lions arch and opened access to the mists. It had nothing to do with Odran.

also, leave temporal distortion and such to the potential chronomancers is my opinion.

I probably should have specifically mentioned HoH and TOPK but i didn’t. Either way

“Using a spell of his own devising and the sacrifice of many souls, Lord Odran, a powerful arcanist who specialized in the study of temporal distortions, opened a portal that offered him access to the Mists and eventually into the Rift itself.”

“When Odran’s mortal body died, the wards and enchantments that kept his portals hidden failed, and the gates to the Hall of Heroes were laid open to all who were able to find them.”

Adine.2184:

castlemanic.3198:

Adine.2184:

castlemanic.3198:

my comment was only in regards to a secret society. New classes should be added, but the lore has to fit.

Agreed this is why i said if an arcanist was added it should be because of the Priory finding scrolls or something of the sort in Orr. Its also why i mentioned Temporal Distortion being a must as lord Odran is described as an arcanist who specialized in it . The only reason one can enter the mists is because when Odran died the wards he put on his portals to mists failed giving access to everyone .

Balthazar stood in lions arch and opened access to the mists. It had nothing to do with Odran.

also, leave temporal distortion and such to the potential chronomancers is my opinion.

I probably should have specifically mentioned HoH and TOPK but i didn’t. Either way

“Using a spell of his own devising and the sacrifice of many souls, Lord Odran, a powerful arcanist who specialized in the study of temporal distortions, opened a portal that offered him access to the Mists and eventually into the Rift itself.”

“When Odran’s mortal body died, the wards and enchantments that kept his portals hidden failed, and the gates to the Hall of Heroes were laid open to all who were able to find them.”

Found the quote on the GW1 wiki, good catch.

However, that kind of magic isn’t temporal magic, despite odran being specialised in that kind of magic. Going into the mists has nothing to do with time, but more traveling between realms, making the magic used more spiritual than temporal. The spiritual side is especially true with the manipulation of the souls of those he sacrificed. And again, when he went to other worlds, that’s spacial distortion, not temporal distortion.

We could look at traveling into the mists as a way of crossing time to the eventual death that we all must face, but that’s too big a stretch for it to really work that way.

Actually going to the mists does . Specifically the rift . "In the middle of The Mists is a spot where time moves neither forward nor back. It is a tear in the fabric of the cosmos, the point of perfect balance between all forces of the universe. "

I dont want to agrue on the topic again, but the link you gave me actually states Elementalist is nowhere near Necromance in damage, it brings utility to the battlefield,(another proof that the whole system is not really designed so well, dont take it so serious) so the concept is against him self again.

Besides that, i understand what you want to say, but its still sounds totally wrong. Or more like feels wrong.

I mean, they say you CANT use other tipe of magic, but rigght after you say, they can emulate it(no point of the thing alredy then…), and in the end you state, they can but not that good.

Its alredy wrong at the first sentance : Destruction as a school of magic tipe.
Destruction is not a *form*of magic, it is the goal of the caster. The change he wants to bring to the world with the spell he is casting.
Not the effect. Spellcaster NEVER use goals as spells, they use effects, that lead them to there goal.
But for that he needs to give a form to the spell, it has to be achived trough some effect that is present in the world(mostly). and they can achive that effect with magic that is “considerably easy” to use, in contrast to the things he would need to do to achive it.
(Only gods should be able to use “magic” that simply achives there goal, by will.)

And if that is true, that the goals regualte the spells, the system is totally Fc ed up. I mean you basically can cast ANYTHING, just have to lie to yourself, that your goal is xy -_- Seriously totally wrong idea i think.

So you still must seperate the goal of the magic, or the magic itself. You cant go araund and say xy school has y spells. You go and label spells to schools, since they can have multiple effects.
You cant label a fireball as 90% destruction and 2%perservetion and 8% agression.
It is dephending on situation. Trough fire burns, it also gives heat and light, that is a source of life.

I think the problem is : Devs didnt go indepth to think on this topic, since they didnt believe they need a philosophy on how magic works in the game or in the world (that does not even exist).

At any rate lets they with this “wrong” self destroying lore, and say we use “destruction” as school. (trough ele is the same school, with a differeant theme)

I still think the pursuit of power is a good idea for destruction theme, since the power to destroy things, is still considered the greatest power.
As for using arcane magic for that, i assume its good, since Arcane magic is one of the most powerfull and destructive “magic tipe”.

Trough i say this system only destroys good and complex classes. It only binds your hand, makes spell design intesively hard, since if you want an utility spell or skill, you have to ponder araund the whole freeking world to get an indirect effect (i still think the most of them are just exuses).
Sicne you must design a class in a way, so that al his skills are agressive themed is kind of makes it dull.

So anyway, my final thout is : Decide for kitten sake Anet. They are capable of making healing effects or not? If yes kitten the WHOLE stupid lore because its totally pointless blabla.
If not then why are they capable?
So what ever.

I dont think we should bother “taking crappy lore to the word” exspecially since the 90% if it is mostly speculation.
If they dont like the way someone makes a class, they just tell him, “sorry lad, but this wont fit the world we imagined, go redesign it, its a good idea beaside this y and this x”

They wont bother not to implement something only because it wont fit some lore that like 0.2% of the WHOLE player base knows. At best, if those 0.2% gets so angry and starts to moan, they simply post a 3 sentanced port on some forum like we quoting from -_- totally bs if you ask me. We argue on senseless topics, how magic works. I dont think anyone gives a crap right now for that.
But does give a lot to have a new class, that is interesting and soemething new (or actually old school).
Because there are many (like me) who finds any cl kitten decent anought to play seriously.

I say lets focus back on the class. Btw. Could you make some skill lists castle? I would die to see some. With the “mechanic” in effect. Would make a good example how it works exacly.

Ah, i see. Thanks for clearing that up Adine.

Let’s just ignore everything except that the wizard is destruction. this conversation is going to go in endless circles otherwise.

Currently, i can’t think of skills right now. But i will take the time to think of some and get back to you on this.

Oky, I am focusing also on the game right now. (if have time)
But i am really eager to see some skills you imagine. I am sure they will be imaginative and good to look at.

I also think the look and style of the skills and the class owerall should reflect destruction.
On traits, i also think, it could reflect a bit of duality- > and resamble Arcane and Destruction’s aspects.

Also i am a bit influanced by Warhammer, on this topic. I think the human side on this topic (class) should be superior in the “racial” elites and skills. Atleast on theme. (not efecting balance) Afterall Balthazar is the god of war and struggle (destruction) and Humans are the fawored race of the gods.
They are pushed back to the heart of there domain, and are cornered from each direction. The time for a Superbly destructive “mage” like class to appear and turn the tides is now.
Arcanists unbleash the wrath of Balthazar and lead the human race to victory and (supreme domiantion?)
Might be another good theme to background lore for the class)

Topic dead? Op and Castle? Where did you all go?

Nekroseth.5186:

Topic dead? Op and Castle? Where did you all go?

I am back going to write a proper text soon