Permanent gathering tools?
I was going to mock you for suggesting 10g each and say that’s a bit low, but then I did the math. That’s the cost of an entire stack of orichalcum picks.
It still feels low for a permanent upgrade but seriously, 25k uses is already quite a bit to lump together.
Fosthe — Sylvari Elementalist
Men of Science [MoS] – Tarnished Coast
Men of Science [MoS] – Tarnished Coast
Who here wants to have exotic quality unbreakable gathering tools?
For all I care, make them worth 10g each.
I don’t support this. There needs to be a constant money sink. I would rather have a permanent tool that “breaks down” or weakens, that you need to get repaired like your armor/weapons.
RIP in peace Robert
It still feels low for a permanent upgrade but seriously, 25k uses is already quite a bit to lump together.
You’re forgetting the added bonus of convenience. Never having to check your inventory for your mithril/ori tools is well worth the 25k uses, I reckon.
There needs to be a constant money sink.
We got plenty of those already.
I would rather have a permanent tool that “breaks down” or weakens, that you need to get repaired like your armor/weapons.
Not a bad idea, but I like my unbreakability for convenience reasons. Weapons never need to be repaired.
(edited by Iehova.9518)
It still feels low for a permanent upgrade but seriously, 25k uses is already quite a bit to lump together.
You’re forgetting the added bonus of convenience. Never having to check your inventory for your mithril/ori tools is well worth the 25k uses, I reckon.
That’s my point, really. 10g is too low of a price. It’d need to be at least 25g to make up for the convenience factor.
It isn’t the same as just buying 250 picks and using them up. Once you hit 25001 uses you’re at the point where you’re now mining for free. 25000 uses should take someone a long time (we’re talking 4-12 months depending on how often they mine), but we’re still talking about spending 10g — the listed vendor price for the uses — for the convenience of having extra bag space, the convenience of never needing to worry about running out of picks, etc.
The 10g tag makes normal picks obsolete, which is horrible from a design perspective.
Fosthe — Sylvari Elementalist
Men of Science [MoS] – Tarnished Coast
Men of Science [MoS] – Tarnished Coast
Who here wants to have exotic quality unbreakable gathering tools?
For all I care, make them worth 10g each.
I don’t support this. There needs to be a constant money sink. I would rather have a permanent tool that “breaks down” or weakens, that you need to get repaired like your armor/weapons.
As nice as unbreakable stuff would be, it would ruin the spirit of having to run back and get more.
It’s a required nuisance imo, and it should stay that way, otherwise things get too easy.
Elyl Jrend
It still feels low for a permanent upgrade but seriously, 25k uses is already quite a bit to lump together.
You’re forgetting the added bonus of convenience. Never having to check your inventory for your mithril/ori tools is well worth the 25k uses, I reckon.
There needs to be a constant money sink.
We got plenty of those already.
I would rather have a permanent tool that “breaks down” or weakens, that you need to get repaired like your armor/weapons.
Not a bad idea, but I like my unbreakability for convenience reasons. Weapons never need to be repaired.
This is just a bad idea altogether.
Elyl Jrend
We can disagree about what and how many gold sinks there must be in the game, but it seems strange to me to try and pin down a numerical cost that would “make up for” an infinitely-useable, unbreakable gathering tool.
If it’s unbreakable, and useable an infinite number of times, the proportionate cost of the tool is not 10 gold or 25 gold — it’s infinite gold. Such an item would be absolutely priceless.
Having to maintain your gathering tools provides a gold sink that is small, manageable, and consistent. It’s required of all players equally, and allows for the same amount of everyday material acquisition, at the same rate for everyone.
An unbreakable gathering tool utterly cuts off this gold sink, for the purposes of providing a convenience for those who are skilled enough to farm or manipulate the economy, or those who are able to play more often. It is a reward for simply scraping together a large lump sum of gold — and once that lump sum is spent, the maintenance costs are lifted from those players forever. Essentially, it is a tax cut for the rich.
People who can generate mass quantities of gold at any one time do not need to be more highly rewarded, and they don’t need their play time to go easier than other players who are struggling to get by.
I can only see this being implemented and acquirable through the Black Lion Chests. It would follow the same route as the perma-bank, perma-makeover kit, and other perma stuff.
First Team to reach 250 has 87% chance to win (Updated 7/30/2014) : http://bit.ly/1lWH6T8
There needs to be a constant money sink.
We got plenty of those already.
The 1200% (minimum) inflation on high-end items over the last five months says otherwise…
(edited by Conncept.7638)
Anvixy- 80 Ranger
There needs to be a constant money sink.
We got plenty of those already.
The 1200% (minimum) inflation on high-end items over the last five months says otherwise…
I’m not sure where or how you quoted me saying that there needs to be a constant money sink, as I did not.
Fosthe — Sylvari Elementalist
Men of Science [MoS] – Tarnished Coast
Men of Science [MoS] – Tarnished Coast
Permanent tools could have the same durability deal when you die and whatnot by the way. Anyone give that a thought?
* (A strange light fills the room. Twilight is shining ahead. You’re filled with, DETERMINATION.)
If the issue is with infinite use and how to pay for it, why not cost-per-gather? Take the price of a tool, divide by uses, and make a permatool (could even have a buy cost as a “convenience fee”) that charges the per-gather $. If you run out of money, then you can’t gather any more.
It’s really the same as having a regular tool, minus the inventory space loss, and the annoyance of having buy new ones.
Who here wants to have exotic quality unbreakable gathering tools?
For all I care, make them worth 10g each.
Bad idea. Not as much because it would remove a gold sink, but because it would make the rich players richer while keeping the poor players poorer – the former would be able to afford the permanent tools and so avoid a gold sink, while the latter wouldn’t afford those tools so easily and as thus would still suffer the gathering tools gold sink.
“I think that players are starting to mature past the point of wanting to be on that
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
We can disagree about what and how many gold sinks there must be in the game, but it seems strange to me to try and pin down a numerical cost that would “make up for” an infinitely-useable, unbreakable gathering tool.
If it’s unbreakable, and useable an infinite number of times, the proportionate cost of the tool is not 10 gold or 25 gold — it’s infinite gold. Such an item would be absolutely priceless.
Having to maintain your gathering tools provides a gold sink that is small, manageable, and consistent. It’s required of all players equally, and allows for the same amount of everyday material acquisition, at the same rate for everyone.
An unbreakable gathering tool utterly cuts off this gold sink, for the purposes of providing a convenience for those who are skilled enough to farm or manipulate the economy, or those who are able to play more often. It is a reward for simply scraping together a large lump sum of gold — and once that lump sum is spent, the maintenance costs are lifted from those players forever. Essentially, it is a tax cut for the rich.
People who can generate mass quantities of gold at any one time do not need to be more highly rewarded, and they don’t need their play time to go easier than other players who are struggling to get by.
Lol, what are you talking about? Of course its entirely possible to “pin down” an numerical cost on an infinitely usable gathering tool. The endless toymaker tonic or the unbreakable bell is on the TP, are they priceless? No. Why? Because of their realistic usage of their gathering tool.
10g = 250stacks of pick = 25,000mines. That is probably more than an average person would ever mine in this game and the cost of 10g as a goldsink would as a result, surpass the goldsink of individual one time use picks.
Fyi, the peoples whos economically savvy arent the one out there gathering…
I’m not sure where or how you quoted me saying that there needs to be a constant money sink, as I did not.
Sorry, for some reason grabbing the quote from Iehova labeled the sub-quote as being from you in instead of from Ethics. Fixed.
(edited by Conncept.7638)
Buy it with gems as a gathering kit (axe,pick,sickle). Gathering isn’t an advantage so I see no real reason why this couldn’t be a thing for those who choose to afford it.
if we want convenience, then how about a special tool that never breaks, but instead deducts some coppers for every use? the fee can be equivalent to buying the tools, so it’s effectively the same except you don’t have to worry about running out or carrying spares.
Once players hit level 80 it becomes an inconvenience to keep having to get gathering tools. Top tier costs only 4s and really is a pebble in a pond in terms of cost.
I would love to have perma gathering tools – 10-25G sounds reasonable IMO.
On a side note you can already get a BL harvesting item from the BL chest (it has 25 uses only though) – http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gathering_tool
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if we want convenience, then how about a special tool that never breaks, but instead deducts some coppers for every use? the fee can be equivalent to buying the tools, so it’s effectively the same except you don’t have to worry about running out or carrying spares.
I actually thought of that a while back, though I think that would rub people the wrong way, especially beginners who can barely scrape together any money for repairs and their first skill book. They would be annoyed that simply gathering costs money, which doesn’t make any practical sense since you’re not buying it from anyone. We would hear even more endless “WTF GW2 is a grind like all F2P scam MMOs lol!!!!”
From our point of view, we have the privilege of hindsight. We’re only able to say it would be more convenient because we played through the game with the current system. Maybe it would be okay as an option you get once you reach max level or something, but imagine if that’s how you were introduced to the game. I don’t know about you, but I’d think it was a stupid rip-off, from that perpective.
Lol, what are you talking about? Of course its entirely possible to “pin down” an numerical cost on an infinitely usable gathering tool. The endless toymaker tonic or the unbreakable bell is on the TP, are they priceless? No. Why? Because of their realistic usage of their gathering tool.
Tonics, bells, and other novelties like that are just for fun. They don’t have any practical use in the game, nor do they give anyone an advantage in the game. I don’t know what you mean by “realistic usage of their gathering tool,” though. They aren’t attained through gathering.
10g = 250stacks of pick = 25,000mines. That is probably more than an average person would ever mine in this game
That’s a fair point. It’s still theoretically an infinitely priceless item, but as far as this is a conversation about practical matters, you’ve got me. We don’t live in Theoretical Land.
and the cost of 10g as a goldsink would as a result, surpass the goldsink of individual one time use picks.
In a bulk sum, perhaps. But, the design of an unlimited-use gathering tool is still to provide an unnecessary convenience to the rich, as if their time were more valuable than those who have a hard time letting that amount of money go. People who have 10g (or presumably, 30g for a full set of tools) to just throw away like that don’t need an easier time in this game. They have their gold to get them by, and can probably just buy whatever they need.
Fyi, the peoples whos economically savvy arent the one out there gathering…
If that’s true, then there’s no reason for this tool to begin with, since they wouldn’t need it.
You know, there are people who have alts who they just park in front of rare or high-demand gathering nodes. They log in, harvest, send to collectibles, and log out. We don’t need to make it simpler for them to do that.
If those were ever to be released, they would cost way more then 10g.
Maybe 50g each, because they would come from Lion’s Arch Chests, making them super-rare just like the permanent TP / Bank contracts, which are worth over 200-300g each on the TP.
Ching ching, ANet. Follow the sound of the $$!
—
Joking aside, I don’t want this.
It would kill the acting gold-sink of the existing ori-model tools which are extremely cheap as it is.
I would rather they implement a heavily stacked tool for gold, that would still limited.
Like… 1000-use Ori-Mining Pick for 2.5g.
It’s clearly obscenely overpriced, but the item-slot convenience makes it desirable.
What’s better about this is that there is STILL a limit. It’s not a buy-once, forever-profit, type item.
I’ve skimmed the argument that a 10g perma-tool would act as a gold sink.
This is false.
Gold-sinks are suppose to last long-term, where as this would be a short-term benefit.
Over time, the mats you gather would far outweigh the cost.
There ARE people have used gathering tools over 25,000 times. I know people who enjoy farming to this extent. Notably: One of them farmed 5000 candy corn during the halloween event.
And that’s only in 6 months. In 2 years, this suggestion would pay for itself and become a contributor to inflation.
“Bleeding, Poison, Confusion, Torment, they all look delightful on you.”
Lv80s: Guard, Thief, Necro. Renewed my Altaholic’s card on the HoT Hype-Train. Choo choo~
Lv80s: Guard, Thief, Necro. Renewed my Altaholic’s card on the HoT Hype-Train. Choo choo~
(edited by DreamOfACure.4382)
Tonics, bells, and other novelties like that are just for fun. They don’t have any practical use in the game, nor do they give anyone an advantage in the game. I don’t know what you mean by “realistic usage of their gathering tool,” though. They aren’t attained through gathering.
Okay, what about permanent banker, merchant, TP contract? They are practical and they are not priceless. The price assign to an item is base on the realistic amount of use they will get from that item through their entire playing career.
That’s a fair point. It’s still theoretically an infinitely priceless item, but as far as this is a conversation about practical matters, you’ve got me. We don’t live in Theoretical Land.
Well, if we want to get technical, even in “theoretical land”, you are still incorrect. Something is priceless only when it can’t be measured. As long as something is measurable, it is no longer priceless. In this case, it is not priceless because time is not infinite, nor is the lifespan of this game.
In a bulk sum, perhaps. But, the design of an unlimited-use gathering tool is still to provide an unnecessary convenience to the rich, as if their time were more valuable than those who have a hard time letting that amount of money go. People who have 10g (or presumably, 30g for a full set of tools) to just throw away like that don’t need an easier time in this game. They have their gold to get them by, and can probably just buy whatever they need.
This is a rather weak argument. I sincerely doubt at the pricepoint of 10g, it serves as a convenience to the “rich”. Even under such assumption, how exactly does this impact the ability of the lesser financial player to mine? Are we to suppose to do away with gem because it provide an unnecessary convenience to the player with the deeper wallet with those boosts, BL Kit, bag slots, bank slots, etc? It serves well as a luxurious, item and a gold sink as it in no way negatively impact any player from their current situation.
If that’s true, then there’s no reason for this tool to begin with, since they wouldn’t need it.
You know, there are people who have alts who they just park in front of rare or high-demand gathering nodes. They log in, harvest, send to collectibles, and log out. We don’t need to make it simpler for them to do that.
There are plenty of people out there farming, and they are far from rich and would certainly buy this item. I’m rather confuse, you seem to hate capitalism but at the same time promotes capitalism. You do realize that those players doing that contribute to the decrease of the overall price of crafting items right? Which, in general, benefits the majority of the players in this game.
I’ve skimmed the argument that a 10g perma-tool would act as a gold sink.
This is false.Gold-sinks are suppose to last long-term, where as this would be a short-term benefit.
Over time, the mats you gather would far outweigh the cost.
There ARE people have used gathering tools over 25,000 times. I know people who enjoy farming to this extent. Notably: One of them farmed 5000 candy corn during the halloween event.And that’s only in 6 months. In 2 years, this suggestion would pay for itself and become a contributor to inflation.
Every once in a while, some guy eats more than their moneys worth in a buffet, but the majority don’t. In the grand scheme of things, the restaurants generally profits.
(edited by Sky.7610)
We can disagree about what and how many gold sinks there must be in the game, but it seems strange to me to try and pin down a numerical cost that would “make up for” an infinitely-useable, unbreakable gathering tool.
If it’s unbreakable, and useable an infinite number of times, the proportionate cost of the tool is not 10 gold or 25 gold — it’s infinite gold. Such an item would be absolutely priceless.
Having to maintain your gathering tools provides a gold sink that is small, manageable, and consistent. It’s required of all players equally, and allows for the same amount of everyday material acquisition, at the same rate for everyone.
An unbreakable gathering tool utterly cuts off this gold sink, for the purposes of providing a convenience for those who are skilled enough to farm or manipulate the economy, or those who are able to play more often. It is a reward for simply scraping together a large lump sum of gold — and once that lump sum is spent, the maintenance costs are lifted from those players forever. Essentially, it is a tax cut for the rich.
People who can generate mass quantities of gold at any one time do not need to be more highly rewarded, and they don’t need their play time to go easier than other players who are struggling to get by.
If you are a master at making money, you should be rewarded. If you can collect three or four times the number of mats or gold than a regular player then you should not be impeded by minor annoyances. If such a person is not a bot, they posses great patience and determination. Such people increase the availability of mats on the TP, lowering the cost of said mats to levels that casual players can afford.
As a casual player, I say give the highest producers whatever breaks they wish. More mats means lower prices, which means I have to grind less. “But, if prices are lower I won’t be able to sell my mats for a bunch!” So? Even if the mats you want to sell are cheaper, everything else you would buy from your profits will also cost less. The point is not to amass a huge amount of gold, the point is to get equipment in the most efficient manner possible. (spending the least amount of time and frustration upon my part.) I don’t give a kitten how rich the super gatherers are, as long as they keep contributing to the market to the best of their ability, I can pay less for the stuff I want.
If they want inexhaustible gathering equipment, fine by me, it makes me getting my legendarys that much easier. Less time I spend grinding for mats or gold the more time I can spend socializing or actually playing the game!
Who here wants to have exotic quality unbreakable gathering tools?
For all I care, make them worth 10g each.
I don’t support this. There needs to be a constant money sink. I would rather have a permanent tool that “breaks down” or weakens, that you need to get repaired like your armor/weapons.
This. is. brilliant. please, Anet do this. here, have a few ideas:
-the base cost of the tool is Xg
-the tool have Y amount of use-points.
-whenever you use the tool it removes the appropriate amount of use-points.. i.e mining copper removes 24 use-points and harvesting a orichalcum removes 400. (coppar axe costs 24c with 100 uses and a orichalcum costs 4s with 100 uses)
-don’t show the actual amount of use-point the tool have left. only give us a warning when it reaches 25%, you could have a ingame warning like “your tool got damaged” and a dmged icon on the tool icon , like the one on the Armour. and once it’s at 0% it’s broken and need a repair.
-the repair cost could be anything. a long as it’s somehow linked to how many uses you have left. a few examples:
cost(rounded up)= points removed*0.01 // this formula gives the closest price of what the normal tools are.
cost(rounded up)= points removed*[] + lvl*[] + []// this formula is a general formula based on the charter’s level and the amount of removed points aswell with a base cost.
the numbers are up for Anet to decide but for me the first formula is my favorite because it would give us the (almost) exact same gold sink as we have today. also the base number X could be rather high.
it’s there for players who want to pay gold for nothing more than connivance (witch already is in the game).
i don’t either believe in the “pay once and then forget about it” as it would remove a gold sink. ( sure a very small gold sink, but still a gold sink. there must be a reason why it’s there,right?
oh, and the 25% warning should be implemented anyway. as it would remove the need of having a spare set of tools on you at all times. because i don’t keep an eye on that little number in the far right of the hero screen when i’m playing this beautiful game.
just my opinion.
Gathering tools are infinite gold regardless. Even farming copper with orichalcum picks nets profit. So in fact picks aren’t a gold sink but rather an upfront cost to create gold. Such a system doesn’t work as a gold sink.
I see the picks as an arbitrary way of lowering net profit, while I’d much rather have my bruto profit be the same as my net profit. So imho just cross out the costs vs part of the profit and be done with it. That shouldn’t be too difficult?
If I can’t play Guild Wars 2 at work, I won’t work in Guild Wars 2 either.
Delayed content is eventually good. Rushed content is eternally bad. ~ Shigeru Miyamoto
Delayed content is eventually good. Rushed content is eternally bad. ~ Shigeru Miyamoto
I for one am tired of carrying around 20 gathering tools.
Another suggestion: When you buy your EL gathering kits, they are ori quality. Every 100 uses they degrade to mithril > darksteel > … up until copper at which point they remain useable for copper and copper only. They never cease functioning. At this point you can repair them to ori quality again for 4s a tool. These kits cost 10g ea to buy.
If I can’t play Guild Wars 2 at work, I won’t work in Guild Wars 2 either.
Delayed content is eventually good. Rushed content is eternally bad. ~ Shigeru Miyamoto
Delayed content is eventually good. Rushed content is eternally bad. ~ Shigeru Miyamoto
Every 100 uses they degrade to mithril > darksteel > … up until copper at which point they remain useable for copper and copper only.
No no no. This is just silly.
if we want convenience, then how about a special tool that never breaks, but instead deducts some coppers for every use? the fee can be equivalent to buying the tools, so it’s effectively the same except you don’t have to worry about running out or carrying spares.
I actually thought of that a while back, though I think that would rub people the wrong way, especially beginners who can barely scrape together any money for repairs and their first skill book. They would be annoyed that simply gathering costs money, which doesn’t make any practical sense since you’re not buying it from anyone. We would hear even more endless “WTF GW2 is a grind like all F2P scam MMOs lol!!!!”
From our point of view, we have the privilege of hindsight. We’re only able to say it would be more convenient because we played through the game with the current system. Maybe it would be okay as an option you get once you reach max level or something, but imagine if that’s how you were introduced to the game. I don’t know about you, but I’d think it was a stupid rip-off, from that perpective.
I was always assuming it would be Ori-level only anyways. Like an additional tier of harvesting tool that’s level 80, doesnt run out, harvests all tiers, and consumes cash on each use.
Give something like Asurian Eternal mining picks, or Asurian, eternal harvesting sickles. Would be a nice name for perma gathering tools.