Guild Wars 2

Lets put the tl/dr at the start:
All armor skin designs, except cultural armor, should exist for all race and gender combinations. The only differences should be due to anatomical differences between one race/gender combination and another.
For cultural armors, the only difference between the male and female versions should be due to anatomical differences between the genders (for example, the size difference between norn males and females).

Now for the detail
There are lots of armors in Guild Wars 2 where the male version is so different from the female version that the only way I can see ANET getting both designs is to have started them both from scratch. Which means that we are actually looking at two completely different armor skins that just share a name while discriminating on the basis of gender and race. Lets take acolyte armor as the example:
– Female version
– Male version
If I want to wear the male version on a female norn, human or sylvari I can’t.
If I want to wear the female version on any male character I can’t.
If I want to wear the female version on any charr or asura character, male or female, I can’t.

To fix this, I want ANET to split the Acolyte into two different armor sets with two different names. One of the sets will be the male acolyte skin, with the tweaks so that female norn, human and sylvari can wear it. The other set will be the female acolyte skin, with tweaks so it is available for all male characters as well as asura and charr females.
When this change happens, one of the armor skins will keep the acolyte name. Which means people wearing the other armor skin will log in to find their armor skin has changed. If they have an armor piece that has had its skin changed, they should be given something (like the HoM items) to let them change the skin to the old appearance with the new name.

I want ANET to do this for all existing armor skins. Except for stuff like Rubric armor where the male and female versions are already the same in all areas except anatomical differences with the character wearing it.

When ANET introduces a new armor skin, the only differences between the male and female versions are anatomical differences between the genders/races wearing it.

Agreed… though I’d like to make one small change…

Instead of logging in to find your armor skin changed, you log in to find the item’s name changed to reflect the new name of the skin you had prior to the update.

I’d love to have some more feminine armors on my Asura Guardian and Asura Mesmer… Just because their anatomy doesn’t change much from male to female and their culture values practicality over appearance, doesn’t mean that individuals can’t value appearance in addition to practicality or that females must wear the same thing as males…

I don’t believe you’re going to get what you want. Furthermore, I don’t believe you should.

First, the amount of effort it would take to manage the “fix your skins whose name has changed” could be vastly more profitably spent on nearly anything else in the game, from adding preview to the trading post, to fixing any number of actual bugs, or adding new content/features.

Second, the world of GuildWars2 (and GuildWars1 for that matter) contains societies that, to some degree at least, mirror aspects of cultures that exist (or existed) in our world.

That being the case, literal sameness of all dress for all races and genders would be both undesirable and unrealistic. Most, if not all, cultures on earth have (or at least had) rather strict differentiation of dress across genders.

If we add the fact that the costumes for each body model are new work, not simple “copy-pastes” from each other, the end result of your demands would be a vast lowering of the visual diversity in the game. Instead of both sets of Acolyte armor, we’d only have one.

So I don’t expect your demands are going to be met, and I, for one, am not unhappy about that.

I’ve no objection to increasing the diversity of styles available for races/genders in GW2 (all-trenchcoat-medium-armor, I’m looking at you…) So adding more kilts to the male armor sets, and more modest sets to the female light armor sets, to pick two examples, would certainly be welcome.

But to have a blanket statement that all armor sets now-and-forever should be the same across all races/genders, that I don’t like, and don’t see happening.

This issue has many names. I personally call it “female armor cheesification”, and ArenaNet is clearly guilty of it. I don’t agree with the concept or any of the messages it may suggest, but regardless, it’s a common practice in the video games of our time. Sadly, rare are development teams who show enough integrity and sensitivity to go against this custom. Maybe we’ll see a change of habits in the future, but for now, I wouldn’t keep my hopes up for anything happening of the sort that Snoring Sleepwalker suggested.

Personally, I like the armors looking different on the races. Unfortunately, it just seems like whoever’s been designing them for Charr and Asura needs to make them a little more aesthetically pleasing.

Also, I don’t get this need for armor equality among males and females. I don’t want to look like the guys and I doubt enough men want to wear skimpy armor, which means little to no sexy armor for the women. I don’t see how this is a win.

No, just no. There are qualities of masculinity and femininity that do not translate well when the gender donning them is inverted. I don’t think ANet wants guys running around in halter tops and skirts. They want people to let their children play this game.

If you’re making the appeal (secretly) due to what you see as sexism, that’s a different issue. But I would rather have all skirts and halter tops removed from the game in that case. And as much as you may hate it, that’s what would happen.

My suggestion is this: Allow for alternate versions of certain revealing armors that cover more skin. You can then select which you want to view in the game menu. That way, prudes and nudes will be able to walk hand-in-hand throughout Tyria mutilating myriads of helpless foes (which is totally fine by the way).

I love it, it’d make the game incredibly inclusive!
So many people would flock here to be a part of it, so many blogs and reporters would make mention of it.
So many people would resist under some fear that they will be forced to wear a dress or sleep with the same gender. They will throw the baby out with the bathwater by leaving, and they will be wrong.

So many times in the future of MMOs this game would be referred to as the first major MMO to take equality and inclusiveness seriously. I want to acknowledge the amazing step they took in creating the Sylvari race who are pansexual, and I think I remember a Charr who is lesbian. I will be waiting to see evidence of variation in sexualities for humans, too (so it’s not just the “other”).
SWTOR will go down in history for their efforts, but they are yet to fully implement their inclusiveness across the whole game (rather than an expansion). Guild Wars 2 is still young and there’s a lot of improvements that people are calling for to the appearance systems and interface, so plenty of opportunity (sooner rather than later) to implement this and get it accepted as ok and non-threatening.

Zonzai.2341:

No, just no. There are qualities of masculinity and femininity that do not translate well when the gender donning them is inverted. I don’t think ANet wants guys running around in halter tops and skirts. They want people to let their children play this game.

If you’re making the appeal (secretly) due to what you see as sexism, that’s a different issue. But I would rather have all skirts and halter tops removed from the game in that case. And as much as you may hate it, that’s what would happen.

My suggestion is this: Allow for alternate versions of certain revealing armors that cover more skin. You can then select which you want to view in the game menu. That way, prudes and nudes will be able to walk hand-in-hand throughout Tyria mutilating myriads of helpless foes (which is totally fine by the way).

You seem to be suggesting that allowing people to explore different identities through a game is something that should be avoided or is harmful? If that is true, I would recommend you play the videogame Facebook, and ensure you never tell a lie, misrepresent, or obscure parts of your personality. Otherwise, we have Role Playing Games that you and others might like to play.

Also, are you suggeting that giving people the option to do this will hurt them? Or that giving the option to do this is an obligation to take it? Will YOU feel obliged to wear a skirt on your male avatar? Do you feel obliged to wear a skirt when you get up in the morning, when you have the choice to do so? I don’t think so.

You’ve hinted at worry about what people will think and feel if they saw someone doing this in game. Your suggestion says give people the option to wear covered and less-covered clothing rather than the OP’s suggestion. What is the difference here? All I can think of is that covered/less-covered options would be controversial in the 1940s/1950s. Pants or skirts would be controversial in the 1970s (excluding kilts and music videos).

It’s now 2013. Let’s make controversy about things that actually harm people, and make peace with including people from many backgrounds, societies, genders, ages, and identities.

Afterall, what would Jesus/MacGyver do?

FacesOfMu.3561:

You seem to be suggesting that allowing people to explore different identities through a game is something that should be avoided or is harmful?

Straw man; this was clearly stated as something I don’t want to see. I am a consumer and that is my opinion, which I have a right to have, but which I do not have a right to impose on others. Nor do I care to impose them, or argue about them with you.

FacesOfMu.3561:

Also, are you suggeting that giving people the option to do this will hurt them?

Straw man; same as the first reply. It could potentially hurt my eyes. :p

FacesOfMu.3561:

You’ve hinted at worry about what people will think and feel if they saw someone doing this in game.

I probably wasn’t clear enough on that point. Cross-dressing is commonly associated with sexuality – whether or not it actually should be. The morality of it is not a factor for me. From that standpoint, I really don’t care. But many people – and many who are parents – do.

You say it’s 2013 but what does that really mean? The world is full of prejudices and prejudiced people. Half the people in the US (myself included) love that we have a black president, the other half would just as soon impeach him for being a socialist/illegal/muslim/black man/whatever. A few states are finally allowing gay marriage and every single one of those states will have a ballot measure to repeal that measure every voting cycle for the foreseeable future. For years and years black kids have been getting killed by guns in inner cities and CNN only cares when white kids get shot in the suburbs. Yes, it’s 2013. A period of change following a previous period of change, following a previous period of change… get back to me in 2033 and we’ll see if I’ve changed my mind on the issue.

More importantly than what anybody else thinks, Anet has to deal with the ESRB (whether or not their judgement is right). This game would likely have it’s parental rating changed in many countries if men were running around in women’s skirts (and it would probably be banned in Australia :p ). GW2, ultimately being a money-making device, will not be able to comply with this request regardless of anything else. On top of dealing with the ratings, the financial cost associated with modifying virtually every armor and likely having their ratings changes/facing potential public backlash to make a small group of players happy would be silly (not that they don’t appreciate you too). ANet is a company and they want to appeal to as many potential players as possible for each penny spent.

I know I wasn’t clear enough but I did not suggest that parents not liking the idea had anything to do with my feelings on the matter. Ratings boards are a fact of life, not an opinion. Whether or not they are just/right/wrong/needed/wanted/modern is irrelevant – they are what they are. Don’t think I’m right about the ratings change? That is debatable but I’m pretty sure I have a good grasp of the situation.

FacesOfMu.3561:

Your suggestion says give people the option to wear covered and less-covered clothing rather than the OP’s suggestion.

A suggestion which is only relevant if the OP is secretly making the request out of a feeling that skimpy armor for females is sexist. This post is a good method to make that point – it is only fair. I do support the option to have less revealing articles of clothing for those who (rightly) feel that women in skimpy armor without men in equally as skimpy armor is sexist. Personally, I don’t mind half naked dude or dudettes. I don’t play GW2 for them but they don’t bother me. However, I do think having more options is better.

TLDR I’m not arguing anything from a moral standpoint so please tell the straw men to stand down. I don’t want it. ANet would have to consider the potential ramifications. I support a cost-effective option for less-revealing clothing. Hope that clears it up.

Implying that the usage of armor is equal between genders and races?

LOL