Guild Wars 2

I’ve said this before, but I don’t feel the message is being received.

Everyone says “If raiding is brought into the game, it’ll force the game into tiered progression and raiders will get the best gear!” etc etc etc. Or that “It’ll be just like it is in other games!”

I can understand these fears. But let’s just get this out there in the opening post; It doesn’t need to be that way.

Guild Wars 2 breaks the common perceptions in many aspects of an MMO. It does things differently than other MMOs in almost every aspect of the game. So, the fear that Raiding would be like it is in other games is a fear people should quickly put to rest. ArenaNet would likely put their own twist on things. Making raiding in GW2 a different animal than it is in WoW, Rift, EQ, etc.

ArenaNet has gone out of it’s way to try to make gear accessible for everyone, from crafters to dungeon crawlers. While Ascended gear is only Fractals at the moment, they’ve said from the launch of Fractals that it would make Ascended gear elsewhere in the game as well. Raiding would likely be no different in terms of rewards than a normal explorable or fractal rewards.

So, many of you who are likely new to this topic on the forums will ask “Why do we need it in the game?”

The answer is: You don’t need it. But many of us who enjoy that type of gameplay would make GW2 their main MMO and fully support this game monetarily if there was coordinated instanced dungeons with large group sizes (aka Raid content).

If raid content is added, will this ruin you game? Presumably No. We trust that ArenaNet would be able to introduce this content without it harming the play style others have grown accustomed to.

Don’t allow your fears of other game design sway you. Guild Wars 2 rewrote the book on every aspect of an MMO, we trust that raiding wouldn’t be much different.

I made a much larger thread about this already here, but it got blocked. Large player cap dungeons that offer a actual challenge is all I ask.

MMO without raids, without GvG, without HA, perfect.

It’s like killing mobs all day.

“65 million, 340 thousand and 285”

http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/bc6ii5/-live-to-win--south-park-wow

“many of us who enjoy that type of gameplay would make GW2 their main MMO and fully support this game monetarily if there was coordinated instance dungeons with large group sizes”.

So… you want to take a lot of people, to do coordinated events, most likely both challenging and rewarding. HMMM… where could we find in game, something just like that? I’d ask my guild but most of them are in WvW right now, doing.. I don’t know.. dancing competitions or something, I’m sure.

On a more serious note, games like WoW and Rift have entire teams dedicated to creating raids over multiple months, and even then a lot of them turn into outdated flops (regardless of the tiered itemization). The teams we have for ANet are dedicated to doing so much more than creating whats essentially a dungeon for 25+ players. If you wanted that, then they might as well just take something like AC, increase the boss health by 500%, and allow you to take 25 people in (good luck coordinating that with our lack of official LFG system!)

“I don’t feel like the message is being received.” You didn’t get your personalized letter of receipt sent in decorative envelope directly to your personal mailing address? You know, the one with the gold (A) stamp made of filigree wax sealing? I’m sure if you start another post and make that you first comment, they’ll get right on that.

You’re asking for something that’s completely unrelated to the game. They never said “we promise large scale raids like all the other games have, or even with our special ANet sauce on them!”. Asking for that is no different than asking for first-person-shooting interfaces for ranged classes & slot machines. That’s just not part of this games big, or little picture.

“…would make GW2 their main MMO and fully support this game monetarily…” – You have to at least accept that at this point, with so many people playing the game, and it’s growing population, that ANet has captured their target audience, right? That does not include dungeon-crawling raiders, mind you. They are not out to take another games demographic, and cater it to them just to get their money. They’ll lose out on so much more, with the population we have, of players that don’t want to spend 7+ hours yelling at each other over vent/mumble to stand out of fire. The second ANet says “we’re going to have raiding!” is the same second that most of the game population says “this is where dev time is going now? Guess I’m out.” Not that it matters, because they aren’t here to constantly entice subscription fees with tiny little dribbles of patch notes that say “oh we finally increased the damage on that one rogue skill by a .05 coefficient”.

THIS. IS. NOT. THAT. GAME.

“Don’t allow your fears of other game design to sway you. Guild Wars 2 rewrote the book on every aspect of an MMO, we trust that raiding wouldn’t be much different.” – Yes, GW2 rewrote raiding too, rewrote it right out of the story, because it doesn’t belong in this game.

Sincerely,
-A Sincerely Sarcastic Kitten

^ Those people are exactly why this topic shouldn’t even be brought up. There were way more understanding people in my thread.

No seriously, get as much attention to this issue as you can. I’m glad that people want to add stuff to the game, but for this particular suggestion, I want ANet to respond to you people, and let you know that it’s not going to happen. I wish many GM-posts for you and your suggestions.

LoreChief.8391:

“many of us who enjoy that type of gameplay would make GW2 their main MMO and fully support this game monetarily if there was coordinated instance dungeons with large group sizes”.

So… you want to take a lot of people, to do coordinated events, most likely both challenging and rewarding. HMMM… where could we find in game, something just like that? I’d ask my guild but most of them are in WvW right now, doing.. I don’t know.. dancing competitions or something, I’m sure.

On a more serious note, games like WoW and Rift have entire teams dedicated to creating raids over multiple months, and even then a lot of them turn into outdated flops (regardless of the tiered itemization). The teams we have for ANet are dedicated to doing so much more than creating whats essentially a dungeon for 25+ players. If you wanted that, then they might as well just take something like AC, increase the boss health by 500%, and allow you to take 25 people in (good luck coordinating that with our lack of official LFG system!)

“I don’t feel like the message is being received.” You didn’t get your personalized letter of receipt sent in decorative envelope directly to your personal mailing address? You know, the one with the gold (A) stamp made of filigree wax sealing? I’m sure if you start another post and make that you first comment, they’ll get right on that.

You’re asking for something that’s completely unrelated to the game. They never said “we promise large scale raids like all the other games have, or even with our special ANet sauce on them!”. Asking for that is no different than asking for first-person-shooting interfaces for ranged classes & slot machines. That’s just not part of this games big, or little picture.

“…would make GW2 their main MMO and fully support this game monetarily…” – You have to at least accept that at this point, with so many people playing the game, and it’s growing population, that ANet has captured their target audience, right? That does not include dungeon-crawling raiders, mind you. They are not out to take another games demographic, and cater it to them just to get their money. They’ll lose out on so much more, with the population we have, of players that don’t want to spend 7+ hours yelling at each other over vent/mumble to stand out of fire. The second ANet says “we’re going to have raiding!” is the same second that most of the game population says “this is where dev time is going now? Guess I’m out.” Not that it matters, because they aren’t here to constantly entice subscription fees with tiny little dribbles of patch notes that say “oh we finally increased the damage on that one rogue skill by a .05 coefficient”.

THIS. IS. NOT. THAT. GAME.

“Don’t allow your fears of other game design to sway you. Guild Wars 2 rewrote the book on every aspect of an MMO, we trust that raiding wouldn’t be much different.” – Yes, GW2 rewrote raiding too, rewrote it right out of the story, because it doesn’t belong in this game.

Sincerely,
-A Sincerely Sarcastic Kitten

Honestly, no need to be like that. We’re trying to offer up intelligent conversation on the topic. If you have valid points to bring up, please do so without the sarcasm and snark.

That being said, if raiding wont ever happen in this game, we’ll gladly stay with other games that do provide it. However, that can’t be a good attitude to take with the game. “If you don’t like it, go away” is exactly the type of attitude that GW2 is trying to avoid.

If the content isn’t required to get the best items in game, and it doesn’t interfere with your gameplay in any way, why the hate?

As for WvW, that’s good for your guild. My guild (and many other guilds) aren’t PVP guilds and prefer to do PVE. So instanced large group dungeons that provide nothing special outside of what you get in 5 man content is what we want.

It’s not much, but people just hate on the idea just because we call it a “raid”

LoreChief.8391:

No seriously, get as much attention to this issue as you can. I’m glad that people want to add stuff to the game, but for this particular suggestion, I want ANet to respond to you people, and let you know that it’s not going to happen. I wish many GM-posts for you and your suggestions.

Why would you want us to not get what we’re asking for? If it doesn’t affect your game play or give us items any better than yours, what’s the issue? Please, be detailed. Give me something other than the “slippery slope” argument and the “gear treadmill” arguments.

I’d like to see them work more on their open-world dungeons and give that love. It could be done really well I think if given a bit more time/thought.

Open world dungeons would probably be the same as meta events—a mindless zerg. I don’t think open world dungeons would ever offer as much coordination or team work than a dungeon would, because anyone can just join in.

Why not make it an open zone, somewhere in the world. Say, southeast of cursed shore. Lower Arah or something, with it being an open zone scaled up faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar higher than Orr, with legitimate undead armies, and reward chests scattered about (Behind gates and such the players have to smash open) with actual, legitimate rewards. High amounts of exotics, rares, and ectos as a actual drop, but the area is pretty much scaled to level 90 enemies as a minimum. Start an event whenever a gate takes damage to make sure people can’t simply run around.

If the rewards are legitimately good (New gear skins, precursors, etc), people will come.

domxnik.1453:

I made a much larger thread about this already here, but it got blocked. Large player cap dungeons that offer a actual challenge is all I ask.

Yeah idk why they blocked that post. It wasn’t getting off-topic, and had almost 100 posts. But I am 100% up for ArenaNet’s Form of raids or larger scale dungeons.

As for “Lorechief”, they never promised ascended gear yet we see that being a major part of end-game now. They never promised southsun cove or karka yet they released that. You saying ANet didn’t promise something to begin with is completely irrelevant and not asked for. They obviously listen to the players, you see a lot of things they suggest being added (eventually) like tp preview or changes to wvw, pvp, etc. Not all, probably not even 5% of suggestions get added but it isn’t impossible. Clearly you don’t belong in this sub-forum for disregarding suggestions.

NinjaEd.3946:

domxnik.1453:

I made a much larger thread about this already here, but it got blocked. Large player cap dungeons that offer a actual challenge is all I ask.

Yeah idk why they blocked that post. It wasn’t getting off-topic, and had almost 100 posts. But I am 100% up for ArenaNet’s Form of raids or larger scale dungeons.

Yeah, me either. They didn’t even post on there telling us why they closed it. I had two PM’s but it was for the thread “Mounts/Addons/ and an LFD”. They posted in that one about going off topic, and I saw a close coming.

Maybe mine did get a little off topic at times, though.

Tarn.1374:

I’d like to see them work more on their open-world dungeons and give that love. It could be done really well I think if given a bit more time/thought.

I think those would be a great addition to the game. Not a replacement for what many of us are asking for, but certainly would be an awesome addition!

I don’t see why people complain about this, there were raiding mechanics present in the original Guild wars and it was great. Most of the game content in Guild wars 1 required a party larger than 5, I understand people don’t want a gear treadmill and I completely agree with them. But large scaled instanced content has and always will be a key feature to any successful MMO. We aren’t asking for content that can be zerged we are asking for content which requires communication and skill from a large group of people in an instanced area.

AnemoneMeer.7182:

Why not make it an open zone, somewhere in the world. Say, southeast of cursed shore. Lower Arah or something, with it being an open zone scaled up faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar higher than Orr, with legitimate undead armies, and reward chests scattered about (Behind gates and such the players have to smash open) with actual, legitimate rewards. High amounts of exotics, rares, and ectos as a actual drop, but the area is pretty much scaled to level 90 enemies as a minimum. Start an event whenever a gate takes damage to make sure people can’t simply run around.

If the rewards are legitimately good (New gear skins, precursors, etc), people will come.

Again, not a bad idea. But not a replacement for raiding. Part of the idea is for coordinated groups to work as a team. Adding more random bodies to the mix throws the coordination aspect to hell.

I would love to see more of all types of content in this game. It nearly appeals to everyone as it is, with the obvious exception to Raiding guilds. Just seems sad that there’s so much hate for the very idea, despite some very good ideas and conversations about how Raids could be included without it causing any trouble for anyone else in the game.

Open world events will never be on par with raiding. Why? Beucase open world basically means anyone can go there. How can Anet add interesting and challenging boss fights in open world where any randomer can walk by, die and moan “OMG NERF THESE MOBS!!!”. The whole point of making it an instance is so only the people that actually want that type of challenge can get it. If you as a player doesn’t like that type of game style, then simply don’t do it. It will have rewards equal to other aspects of the game maybe with afew new armor/weapon skins to show off (which is what other aspects of the game have already so nothing better about the rewards). It would NOT force people into raiding, it would not force people to stand 3hours a night in it unless you actually want to. I could say now, i don’t like SPvP so I think Anet should remove it from the game. Or i’m not a fan of WvW because i’m not in a big WvW guild, therefore Anet should either remove it, or make it more casual. No, so why should anet not add features to their game just because some people (who would never even have to enter it) don’t like the idea.

Everyone who also says “If you want raiding go elsewhere” you guys will be the death of GW2 and any MMO you all play. GW2 has lost alot of members since launch and although they have alot of members still, they could do more. Not adding a massive feature like raiding to an MMO will limit the ammount of players interested in the game. I tried to get a group of my friends together to play GW2 when it was released, but without any real PvE like raiding in the game they didn’t want to. If anet tells every player that wants features add to this game, to make it better, to go away just because afew people cry on the forums about it, then they’d lose alot of players that they would be able to otherwise draw into buying their game.

Let me ask aswell, what’s better? 15 members of your guild doing a boss alone, or having an extra 10-15 random people getting in your way and then when you kill the boss, it doesn’t feel like a personal guild achievement because it wasn’t you who killed him.

And to all of those that say “Anet didn’t promise raids”, Anet have never once said “There will be no raids”. They was asked about raids in an interview and they replied “That’s somthing we are still talking about, but currently have nobody working on it”. So no, they have not said they will add raids, nor have they said they won’t.

Conwolv.4329:

LoreChief.8391:

No seriously, get as much attention to this issue as you can. I’m glad that people want to add stuff to the game, but for this particular suggestion, I want ANet to respond to you people, and let you know that it’s not going to happen. I wish many GM-posts for you and your suggestions.

Why would you want us to not get what we’re asking for? If it doesn’t affect your game play or give us items any better than yours, what’s the issue? Please, be detailed. Give me something other than the “slippery slope” argument and the “gear treadmill” arguments.

It does affect my game play. I don’t want taking away precious development time from the large monthly updates, the improvements to spvp, wvw, pve – so that they can cater to a misplaced crowd of people that just want to see GW2 turn into the game they “used to play”. If you want to take your ilk elsewhere, by all means do so.

I’d be all for this, however raiding should have no unique skins, no unique gear (ie none of this crap we currenly have with fotm being only way to get proper back items or ascended rings).
Are you willing to do these raids if all the equipment looks exactly like crafted gear? If the answer is no, then every slippery slope argument is valid because you want something unique that DOES impact others.

BTW with all these conditions, I would do the raids for the challenge aspect.

Just treat raids as much harder dungeons with epic boss fights like the dragons in-game. Would be a community builder and a lot of fun.

domxnik.1453:

Open world dungeons would probably be the same as meta events—a mindless zerg. I don’t think open world dungeons would ever offer as much coordination or team work than a dungeon would, because anyone can just join in.

Not all ‘meta events’ are so. Open world Dungeons are already in the game, most people just don’t know where/how to find them.

And yes, if done poorly they will just become a ‘mindless zerg’. Most of them at the moment are like this. It’s like anything that’s done, it has to be done well or it shouldn’t even be attempted.

here’s a thought. keep in mind, i LIKE not having to dance the gear-grind. i was one of those who was offended, and believed that anet “broke their promise” when they brought out ascended gear. but keep reading, please …

we have orr. yeah, orr gets boring after a while. but the THEORY behind it is, i believe, sound. my guild, weekly, does “karma runs,” where we’ll hop on our level 80 characters and go run around orr. now — what’re the differences between orr, and raids? let me encapsulate them:

1) no need to prepare a group — grouping/“raid group” is unnecessary
2) no need to grind gear in order to participate, nor to be effective
3) open to “solo” — i.e., you can easily find zergs, hook up, and run with them

what are the similarities?

1) many of the events require larger groups to achieve the goal — for instance, the progressive events leading to the re-taking of a temple
2) better loot at the end of the run

so. orr is, in some ways, gw2s answer to raids. however, it’s lacking a couple of things that hardcore raiders WANT:

1) a united objective that is achievable by THAT PARTICULAR GROUP
2) “better gear”
3) dedicated raid groups
4) progression

put simply, i think, #4 is the biggie. i will, because i want to give lots of credit to the player base, completely overlook #2 (grins). i’ve been told by a raider friend that she can put together a raid group, in wow, for a specific purpose, and NO one else is going to partake in her/her group’s success. that means something to her; it means less to me. but i understand that sense of ownership. furthermore, because the events, INCLUDING the build-up events, repeat, there’s no real sense of progression. for instance, when we take dwayna’s temple, it doesn’t remain taken. there is no instanced way for us to go back to dwayna’s temple, to walk around, to recount the fight for others, to talk to the vendors. raids have a weekly save; orr has whatever the time period is between events.

i say, find a balance. find a way to provide, at the LEAST, a sense of progression — even if that means you “save” dwayna for a week — let people be able to bask in the sense of “i was a part of that. that was so cool.”

when you know that something will be repeated in an hour or so, it loses its sense of majesty, of urgency. i don’t advocate raids coming to gw2, because i don’t want to get back in to #2 and #4. but i do advocate some way to let players feel that sense of “epic.”

another thing? how long is orr going to remain lost? forever? how sad, if so.

LoreChief.8391:

Conwolv.4329:

LoreChief.8391:

No seriously, get as much attention to this issue as you can. I’m glad that people want to add stuff to the game, but for this particular suggestion, I want ANet to respond to you people, and let you know that it’s not going to happen. I wish many GM-posts for you and your suggestions.

Why would you want us to not get what we’re asking for? If it doesn’t affect your game play or give us items any better than yours, what’s the issue? Please, be detailed. Give me something other than the “slippery slope” argument and the “gear treadmill” arguments.

It does affect my game play. I don’t want taking away precious development time from the large monthly updates, the improvements to spvp, wvw, pve – so that they can cater to a misplaced crowd of people that just want to see GW2 turn into the game they “used to play”. If you want to take your ilk elsewhere, by all means do so.

Wow you’re a narcasist. Precious development time? they got numerous employees. And I bet a large portion don’t care a kitten about your spvp, wvw, etc. PVE is dieing, quite rapidly. It isn’t the developers fault, its just not all things work out perfetly in the first few months. Not to mention no one here said “allow raids in the january or February patches”, its an idea for the far future. No one wants raiding to be half-kitten done. They wana see in-depth challenges for large groups, primarily guilds because wvw isn’t everyone’s cup of tea. They don’t have to be “like every other game that has done raiding”. Doesnt even have to be called raiding or have more than 12-15 members, just a large scale dungeon that offers skins, maybe titles, nothing else. No gear progression, no exclusive skills or pets, no dull grind, just cosmetics and a gw2 challenge.

I think there already is raiding, in a nontraditional sense. The real time events in Orr ARE the raids. The only issue is not allowing more than 5 people into groups to be able to keep track of each other (well you can but it costs way too much gold). All those large events at the temples? Those are the raids. This is raiding in GW2.

I can understand wanting something that feels a little more concrete, but I personally like it as is. To each their own and whatnot.

Orr, is open raiding. Basically anyone and everyon can hop in for a couple minutes, help out, walk away with pretty good loot (in theory. But there isn’t much of a challenge for them unless the people who join you are zombies behind a keyboard and fail to revive anyone or control add ons. They could never make these events like dungeon bosses simply because asking for open world coordination is unlikely and ridiculous (in most cases). People just wana swing, press ¹ over and over and collect their loot which is fine, nothing wrong with that. But some people want more, like myself, a challenge for large groups that offers no sympathy for the uncordinated. Some dungeons accomplish this very well but it’s only 5 man atm.

Fair, but I guess you haven’t been there with only 2 other people at the Temple of Grenth actually making a dent in him huh? Overall I guess it depends on what time you are on. Not all events are press 1 to win. I’ve done a lot with only a few people where we had to be very careful and coordinated and it was challenging and fun.

Without reading through every ones posts here and just going off the main thread,

It sounds like Anet is working on something that would entice those that want a raiding system. Right off the bat the they said they’re working on Guild specific content to do things as a entire Guild or even in small groups.

Secondly I think where Anet’s head is at is to replace the repetitive Dungeon or Raid Instance grinds with something more “Dynamic” and rewarding allowing either the whole server to participate or less requiring the community to work together almost like a raid event. Difference anyone can drop in or out and any moment that would automagically scale the event and it’s rewards.

Mmmm, I’d be all over that. It would be great to be able to have your whole guild in on something. Or well, either that or a cluster of mayhem which can be fun too. And the whole dynamic thing seems to be their theme. If they can manage it, than awesome!

(now if crafting a legendary were more dynamic…)

Yes, I did read they are working on guild specific missions, but I’m not sure if they will offer the challenge some of us seek, or if they will be more like quests rather than dungeons. Either way, though, it sounds nice. They also said they will be working on “expanded and re-designed encounters for bosses in dungeons and the open world”, which also sounds like.

I know they are paying attention and realize there is a problem when it comes to some things in pve, but lets just see what they do with it. I’m excited about the upcoming months. I believe this first update will bring the fractals change, guild missions, and the new reward system.

As much as I’d love to see some form of organized 10+ raiding in GW2 I doubt it’s possible without a complete overhaul of all professions. The lack of trinity, or simply a clearly outlined tank/dps/support roles would result in massive chaos. Events are a chaos fest already, so are most 5men pugs. The lack of aggro management options, support specs/abilities, that are actually viable both in dungeons and when soloing or PVPing renders the whole raiding concept rather impossible to implement at the moment. And don’t get me wrong, I like all players being forced to have a certain amount of responsibility – whether it’s self healing, rezzing or buffing, debuffing, I just don’t see it ever being possible to organize 10 or 15 people when there aren’t more clearly defined roles. In theory, the tools are there to a certain extend, in case of most professions, they are just not good enough. One can dream though, it could be sooo awesome:)

I would like the trinity and raiding and gear progression, otherwise I have no reason to progress once I’ve done all the content.

I really want some challenging PvE content, the current content is just faceroll.
Without any incentives I wont go up to lvl 80+ FotM.

It amazes me how many people demand raids but always add in a line much like Xrage above “without any incentives”. Seems like far too many don’t actually want raids. If you only want raids for stronger loot, you don’t want raids.

If you would not do the content for the sake that it is fun, you don’t actually want it.

titanCrawler.1245:

I would like the trinity and raiding and gear progression, otherwise I have no reason to progress once I’ve done all the content.

Not exactly what this post is about I’m afraid… No gear progression, no trinity (that’s not even possible atm). It is simply about Gw2 version of “raids” being group challenges in dungeons that require coordination, not mindless group Dynamic Events (although sometimes fun, cannot be anything more than multiple people putting out damage on a boss with a ton of health.)

I would LOVE to have raids, right now there is nothing in game to keep me interested.

The combat system that GW2 has could make for some awesome encounters and here and there in dungeons I have come across cool mechanics/encounters, but overall it is just ‘tank n spank’, which I guess happens quickly with the combat system that is in place (oh the irony). Though I would have to admit that, of course it is fun, if there is no reward there is no real point in doing it. It SHOULD have exclusive skins and the like, perhaps not statwise better, but it should have something that makes it worthwhile to go there. Yes someone pointed out that you don’t really want it for the sake of content, but then again, why do we do dungeons? Grinding for our legendary? Map completion? It all has a reward at the end. People like being rewarded for their work and raiding would be no exception.

We will see how everything develops, I will be anxiously waiting for any major content update anyway.

Oh and Mr. LoreChief. Stop being so childishly selfish. You’re making a fool of yourself.

Direksone.3867:

I would LOVE to have raids, right now there is nothing in game to keep me interested.

The combat system that GW2 has could make for some awesome encounters and here and there in dungeons I have come across cool mechanics/encounters, but overall it is just ‘tank n spank’, which I guess happens quickly with the combat system that is in place (oh the irony). Though I would have to admit that, of course it is fun, if there is no reward there is no real point in doing it. It SHOULD have exclusive skins and the like, perhaps not statwise better, but it should have something that makes it worthwhile to go there. Yes someone pointed out that you don’t really want it for the sake of content, but then again, why do we do dungeons? Grinding for our legendary? Map completion? It all has a reward at the end. People like being rewarded for their work and raiding would be no exception.

We will see how everything develops, I will be anxiously waiting for any major content update anyway.

Oh and Mr. LoreChief. Stop being so childishly selfish. You’re making a fool of yourself.

agreed about the raid content

also agreed that LoreChief is a …meow

Direksone.3867:

Though I would have to admit that, of course it is fun, if there is no reward there is no real point in doing it. It SHOULD have exclusive skins and the like, perhaps not statwise better, but it should have something that makes it worthwhile to go there. Yes someone pointed out that you don’t really want it for the sake of content, but then again, why do we do dungeons? Grinding for our legendary? Map completion? It all has a reward at the end. People like being rewarded for their work and raiding would be no exception.

This is exactly what I was talking about in the other thread. There’s no way raiding can be implemented without people demanding exclusive rewards from it.

I appreciate what domxnik and some of the others are saying, but unfortunately your desire to have challenging encounters that require large scale coordination are not going to be added without people like Direksone complaining about lackluster rewards.

Maybe if everything from raids were BoE, but in terms of distribution of wealth I think that would heavily skew things in favor of the small percentage who would end up raiding.