Redesign the Largos

Redesign the Largos

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

To put it simply, the largos design looks like a place holder for something else. I like the concept of their race, but every time I see them I think “Night Elves as manta rays” and any interest I had in them is lost. So Lately I’ve been imagining them a bit differently and they have some intrigue to them. Probably the main reasons I’m asking for a redesign is because I kinda want to play as one. And a new, more aquatic design would be preferred in my opinion to their current design. A Aquatic playable race is needed in the game, but I don’t think building one completely from scratch is the way to go. The Largos could be extremely interesting with more fish, cephalopod and crustacean designs integrated into them we could have a very unique looking race.

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Posted by: Maldracai.2698

Maldracai.2698

Yeah, you and every other Largos fanboy/girl (myself included) wants to play one. The only issue is… they’re an aquatic race and about 80% of this game takes place on land.

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Posted by: Zoid.2568

Zoid.2568

Yes i agree. This applies to all the races minor races though.
All skritt and quaggan pretty much looks the same, Kodan, same same etc.

The races we can play are the races with most customization.

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Posted by: xXxOrcaxXx.9328

xXxOrcaxXx.9328

They maybe live underwater because they can move fast and silently (mantastyle) but they are indeed capable of surviving on land.
But it would be hard to ad any detail or lineaments, since they’re wearing a mask.
Also, from what I’ve seen, they’re always wearing some sort of a full body swimsuit which stands in contrast to the most half-naked armorskins in the game.

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Posted by: Kentaine.4692

Kentaine.4692

Also, from what I’ve seen, they’re always wearing some sort of a full body swimsuit which stands in contrast to the most half-naked armorskins in the game.

Don’t start with most of the armor is half-naked skins rumor… look closer. You’ll notice the majority of those who wear that kind of armor (because they like it) are slight variations of the same, exact evocative sets with random pieces like shoulders/boots/gloves thrown in to add a flare of personal preference. Look up the actual armor sets (fully equipped) on the wiki before you accuse the outfits in GW2 as being mostly ‘half-naked’. The majority of the are ugly, multi-layered, visual messes. Guild Wars never should have been demanded to provide more ‘practical’ armor. They’ve always had the option there, I recall Kurzick was awesome looking (and a style that I was hoping would have been more represented in GW2) and the elite version covered EVERYTHING and only one shoulder was bare on the basic. The impractical armor choices are severely lacking now because of it. Instead the majority looks more like Luxon heavy armor, it was an eyesore to me back in GW1.

Sorry for my rant, I’m just sick of this ‘fantasy armor shouldn’t be bikinis’ mentality being expressed EVERYWHERE. Especially when there is absolutely no evidence to support it in GW and never has. The only ‘bikini’ armor in GW were gladiator armor (historically accurate except it actually covers the genitalia/breasts), scars (showing off necromantic perseverance and what you’ve obtained your power from) and tattoos (same as necros but for monks), granted a lot of the old female ele armor was pushing it and a few of the sets may have been better off matching the male counterparts more. Can’t find fault in ritualist either, it was, again, influenced by the historical attire of what their class was based on (medicine women/fortune tellers, perhaps more influenced by native American than Asian, and at least the men had similar armor).

As for the Largos, yeah I’d like a redesign even if they don’t become playable… first time I ran across one I wondered why on earthy they put in WoW elves with a squirrel suit on.

(edited by Kentaine.4692)

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Posted by: xXxOrcaxXx.9328

xXxOrcaxXx.9328

Apart from the fact that I wanted to accuse anyone, aren’t those armorsets (see attachments) half naked?

All those skins have to be adapted to the Largos race since they would be, same as the Asura, conservatively dressed.

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Posted by: Kentaine.4692

Kentaine.4692

Yes, those ones are… two out of how many though? Also they could easily be adapted to Largos. If they’re wearing a wet suit it means they go on land primarily, because if you live in the ocean you don’t need a wet suit, you would have evolved to live and function in your environment.

There’s roughly 39, maybe 4 could be argued as ‘half-naked’, but the majority of them are still only half naked to the people who see your character because of all the skirts. I’m not saying I want more naked costumes either. I’d like more PANTS. There’s ONE pair of pants for light armor that I don’t have to spend gems to get. The rest all have a massive skirt attached to them. It’s annoying when you want to make a fighter themed spell caster, a skirt would get in the way.

(edited by Kentaine.4692)

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Posted by: xXxOrcaxXx.9328

xXxOrcaxXx.9328

Yes, those ones are… two out of how many though? Also they could easily be adapted to Largos. If they’re wearing a wet suit it means they go on land primarily, because if you live in the ocean you don’t need a wet suit, you would have evolved to live and function in your environment.

Thats exactly what I said…

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Posted by: Kentaine.4692

Kentaine.4692

Sorry about getting upset. Just the way you worded it to me I read it as them not being able to do the armor sets because they wear wetsuits all the time.

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Posted by: Orpheal.8263

Orpheal.8263

Part 1)

I agree with the OP. This races needs a redesign, but imo not only in a visual kind of matter, but much more likely in a matter of personal story also where we have that 1, in a matter of NPCs (if they are so much, that they should be consisted as a playable race ever, there shouldbe alot more Largos to be found everywhere in the game, not just only a random dynamic event enemies)

But the biggest thing that I think needs a massive redesign about Largos imo, tis ther ultra boring and inspirationless LORE and the whole races needs to become alot more customizable, also especially in regard of the face parts, because how you do want to make them there more customizable, if this race permananetly wears full aqua breather masks all over their faces and basically never show their real faces, because they seem to need them to be able to breath at all (at least on land, but ironically they wear them also under water, what imo makes no sense)

Their whole design should imo be alot more about beign some kind of fish/amphibic hybvrid race with lots of fins, scales, crustacean stuff and so on and alot less about manta rays that look like ridiculous aquatic wings and which should be worn at land if at all more like some kind of protective “manteau” with that they enwrap themself with.

I’d really love it, of Largos would look alot more like THIS
Thats to me a Largos, that I would love to play, that looks awesome and fitting for GW2

http://www.videogamesartwork.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_node/public/images/image/1377547925/bladesoul-fishman_jae-wan-choi.jpg?itok=d-2x74t0

Something, that just looks fishy, ambhibic and a very slightly bit like lizards too with lots of scales, fins with sizes ranging between Human and Charr-Size, basically same as big as Tengus, which are also bigger, than a normal size human.

They be massively customizable with lots of different scale colors, fin variations, fin sizes, Tail Types, Eye/Maw Types.

This here on the Picture for example could be a Largos Ranger with a Quarterstaff as Weapon.

About the largos Lore, Anet should keep the stuff, that they have different “Houses”, what are for Humans basically the Gods, for Charr their Warbands, for Norn their Spirits, for Asuras their Sciences ect. so when you create a Largos, the player has to decided, into which “House” they belong. They would have 4 different Houses.
About 1 we already know how its named.

Personally I like the idea behind sub classes ~ quoted from Chris Whiteside

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Posted by: Orpheal.8263

Orpheal.8263

Part 2)

Largos Houses known and 3 suggestions to make the example complete:

The House of Tethyos, this House is ruled under the laws of "Honor and Mercylessness* Its basically the House of Mercenaries (change that crap around Assassins, this makes this race just look boring and not well thought out, also Mercenaries does fit better into the overall lore of Tyria in GW2, Mercenaries ARE merciless, they just do everything, as long they get payed enough for their services and and the same time, they have honour, a Mercenary never does something, that violates anything of their mercenary codexes that they strictly follow, as if they would be some divine rules of life that they have to follow to not become corrupt)

Other Houses I’d suggest here would be:

The House of Delphyos, this House is ruled under the law of “Courage and Cleverness” Under this House fall all of the Largos, that are known for their cunning tactics, and their massive courageous actions to explore the world.
They are also the most talk active Largos, in respond to the other races of Tyria and most Largos you would see in Towns like Lions Arc, would come from the House of Delphyos. They are similar a bit to the Sylvari, which want to know, how alot in the world functionizes, they collect wisdom to share it among other Largos of their same House, because their law telsl them, that wisdom is might and only the courageous will collect all of the wisdom, they are seeking for.

Then the House of the Amaranthyos
This House is ruled by the law of “Peace and Calmness”, they are basically the total opposite of the House of the Tethyos and Delphyos. This Hosue harmonizes very much with the race of the Quaggan. They used to live with each other in perfect harmony. They received something from the Quaggan, therefore that the Amaranthyos-House defended the Quaggan.
The House of Amaranthyos is very known among all of the Largos for their special Healing Abilities through Meditations reaching a state, that is called “Trance” through that they have become well known for reachign the highest life spans among all Largos.
They are like some high spiritive Shaolin Monks basically for comparison, very calm, very confident and introverted sometimes, caught in their meditative thoughts.

And finally the House of Carthachyos
This House is ruled by the law of “Pride and Gracefulness”
They are a very narcissistic type of Largos, they are more like lone wolfs like Largos from the House of Tethyos too are. They seek not for honor, they seek for achievements, things that empower their pride.
Its the kind of Largos, that would go hand in hand with the Norn for going on hunt for the pride of overtaking the challenges on their seek for rivals they can beat.
They are the fashionists, that are self beloved to the bones and take a heavy weight on their looks, thus you could basically think, if you want to search for the most “beautiful” Largos, then you have to search for one of the House of Carthachyos.
Here you will definetely find the most colorful and exotic looking ones.

So, each House would have their influences on the personality and visuals of the Largos to quite some point to make them look all different and unique.

I think they should become unde this kind of redesign playable together with some kind of Expansion that introduces more sea based content of the game, naval battles also for example and new content based on underwater dungeons, alot improved underwater combat with new seperate underwater traits and talents for all of the classes and naturally new personal story stuff based on the deep sea elder dragon that should finally officially get revealed with its real name.

Personally I like the idea behind sub classes ~ quoted from Chris Whiteside

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Posted by: Conncept.7638

Conncept.7638

I wish they looked like manta rays, that would actually be cool and somewhat sensible for an underwater race, instead they look like friggin dainty butterflies. Those wings would be an incredible weak-spot in their anatomy, cumbersome in a land or underwater fight, and would be completely worthless as any type of underwater propulsion.

I’m a concept artist (well a student at least) and I am SUPER bored thanks to Christmas break (why is this break so loooong, I want to go to class ), so maybe I can crack out a sketch or two later tonight or tomorrow.

(edited by Conncept.7638)

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

I wasn’t going to post this.. But this is kinda what I want to see.

http://www.wizards.com/mtg/images/digital/magiconline/prime-speaker-zegana-avatar.JPG

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Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

I’d prefer the jae-wan-choi look over the sea-elf look. One of things that puts me off from the largos in general is the sea-elf feel.

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Posted by: Conncept.7638

Conncept.7638

Mmmkay

So I kept the manta ray design but made some basic anatomy changes, most important among them changing the insertion and origin of the ‘water-wings’. The origin is now a secondary shoulder joint and inserts into the stingray tail, making the largos much more anatomically sensible. This also keeps that unique visual niche the wings give them while still allowing armor for them to be just as easily modified from the human model, as well as allowing for a much cleaner animation when they fold up their wings.

But most imporantly, with this their character customization has a lot more potential for branching out in to more varied sea-creatures. I made two basic turn-arounds just to show the anatomy and one example of a customized player character based on the reference provided above.

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(edited by Conncept.7638)

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

Mmmkay

So I kept the manta ray design but made some basic anatomy changes, most important among them changing the insertion and origin of the ‘water-wings’. The origin is now a secondary shoulder joint and inserts into the stingray tail, making the largos much more anatomically sensible. This also keeps that unique visual niche the wings give them while still allowing armor for them to be just as easily modified from the human model, as well as allowing for a much cleaner animation when they fold up their wings.

But most imporantly, with this their character customization has a lot more potential for branching out in to more varied sea-creatures. I made two basic turn-arounds just to show the anatomy and one example of a customized player character based on the reference provided above.

I like what you got there so far. Now all we have to get is get arena net on this. Still I wonder about back items with the wings..

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Posted by: Donari.5237

Donari.5237

I’ve had the feeling those wings aren’t part of the being, but are technological additions to aid in underwater mobility. Artistically they are substandard for ANet (see! I can criticize!). In the cut scenes they angle unrealistically, one forward and one aft. On land they are far too stiff. They seem more crude in texture than they should, as well.

If I were redesigning the Largos, I’d ditch the manta wings unless they could much more organically flow with the character.

Lore question: Have we got anything at all about the origin of Largos? From GW1, books, or GW2? Beyond the PS commentary, that is, which amounts to “almost no one’s heard of them, they are mysterious people who live for the hunt in an assassiney sort of way and they stay mostly underwater.” I think they’d have normal enough faces under the masks, possibly normal voices without the filtering, and a regular bipedal humanoid form. At least as pictured in the PS. The suggestions in this thread which turn them into truly aquatic/amphibious creatures make them much more interesting.

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Posted by: Tman.6349

Tman.6349

You guys are suggesting A-net completely redesign an entire NPC race based on your intentions/wishes and your presumptions about theirs O.o lol I like the new look but I don’t’t think they have a new playable race in the works or the idea of redesigning an NPC one. Maybe lore section rather than actual suggestions. I think that would make a really sweet thief though. Idk about clipping issues with the ‘wing’ things though. I guess the redesign would cover reskinning every armor in the game for them too though.

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Posted by: Orpheal.8263

Orpheal.8263

Suggesting to redesign a NPC races is absolutely not absurd, like you make it look like TMan ..

ANet has already done this work of redesigning a complete race in the middle of the development process of the game, before it got released. – yes, the SYLVARI They have fully redesigned them to give them a completely different look over what they looked like, before they got made to look alot more plant like, than they were before.
At earlier design stags, they have looked far more than like Orcs or Wood Elfs, than living plants with human bodies.

Its also much easier to make an already existing NPC race into a playable race, than to develop from the scratch somethign completely new and the Largos are one of the few races, that are besides the Tengues UNIQUE enough to be worthy becoming a playable race.

The only thing that is currently massively lacking for the largos are their lore and their customization options, because the game currently has only 2 Largos body models. That one of the personal story relevant Largos and that of the male version, that we see as dynamic event foes, skill point challenge or on rare occasion as part of dynamic event not being a foe to fight against.

The only thing that we know about the Largos so far is, that one of their Houses is named “Tethyos” and that largos from their live basically only for honour and them being merciless .

There lies alot of potential in this race to become an interesting playable race, but for that to happen, Anet just would need to make some changes to this race and add alot more lore, because this race surely has not just only 1 single house, they have for sure more about which we know nothing so far.

Clipping is not the only issue with the current design of the Largos.
That manta ray like “wings” are the biggest problem in regard of:

  • Back Items
  • Dodging Animations on Land
  • Jumping Animations on Land
  • Knockdown/Launch Animations on Land
  • Physics

As it has been said already, they look way too stiff, like being glued onto their backs, just unnatural and realistically seen, they’d just be in combat a real weakness for them, because they just slow them down massive, they can#t use them to fly and even if they could do that, it would be massively unfair and unbalanced.
The current way of race design clearly shows, that this race is made only for underwater combat, because there they are in their element.
But when they fight on land, it just looks weird and that supernatural instant teleportation tenique of them on land just makes them weirder, when their spin around themself, like how when you met the first time in the personal story a Largos together with Trahearne at the Pact Fortress.

Thats a reason, why i say, the race of the Largos needs a clear complete redesign into something, that fits more into the Game for beign a race that lives underwater, but canm also be amphibic, to live on land for quite some time, without having any problems of silly childish looking butterfly wings that never ever ever ever will fit into this Game (If you want winged races, go play Aion!!, all the back item wings are already enough BS, except the dwayna ones, that just look like little wings, but don’t behave like wings like the tequatl and holo ones.)

Personally I like the idea behind sub classes ~ quoted from Chris Whiteside

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Posted by: Conncept.7638

Conncept.7638

To address certain things

They really are not anatomically sound as they are. There are multiple types of underwater propulsion, and unfortunately the current largos design mixes two of them in a way that is anatomically impossible.

Fish operate by using fins for propulsion, bones with a tightly knit insertion point connected to a muscle or group of muscles. They always have multiple fins because each can only work in one ‘plane’; upwards/downwards, forwards/backwards, left/right.

Mantarays have a membrane with no bones connected to a group of serrated muscles allowing it to use its wings kind of like a streamer, creating alternating U shapes in the membrane which push off the water.

Now you see the problem? The largos have the insertion of a fin yet it is supposed to operate like a wing membrane. Those wings they have, even underwater, would be completely worthless, propelling them in a single plane alone.

And about being on land, I said I had an idea for how they would fold, didn’t bother drawing it though, but just took a few minutes to crack something out. With their wings folded like this it should be able to be handled by any cloth engine, just render it out somewhat stiffened (as it would be thicker and slower than actual than cloth) and it should look perfectly natural during any action.

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Posted by: Orpheal.8263

Orpheal.8263

Thank you for those very good explaining drawings, they proof for me personally again, that sometimes to very opften its again so, that pictures can tell things more efficiently, than 1000 words can do

That last picture basically shows, what I have suggested about Largos wings should work like some kind of “Manteau” on land, that enwraps themself with it.
Basically like Gargoyles, they also never have permanently their wings stretched out, because they would make them very non agile.
A Gargoyle, that doesn#t use its wings at the moment to fly, just folds his wings around his body like a protective manteau.

See, lke this

http://asg.animatedheroes.com/albums/gargoyles/Demona_perches.sized.jpg

or here especially good seen:

http://asg.animatedheroes.com/albums/gargoyles/new_friends.jpg

PS:

@ Conncept: I’d like to know from you, what do you think about my thought out lore about the Largos Houses ? Just curious

Personally I like the idea behind sub classes ~ quoted from Chris Whiteside

(edited by Orpheal.8263)

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Posted by: Windu The Forbidden One.6045

Windu The Forbidden One.6045

As long as they stay humanoid and keep the wings/fins, I’m fine with it.

Dear A-net: Please nerf rock. Paper is fine
~Sincerely, Scissors

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Posted by: g e o.2589

g e o.2589

There is a race in a game called Lineage 2 (pretty famous game) Kamael, they have 1 wing tough, the capes for them are different, they create metallic second wing with cloth flowing from it, looks epic but the point is that Kamael always have their 1 wing out aswell the Largos never sheath their wings, that’s what makes them unique.

EDIT: Picture prvided

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