Reinforcement counter to WvW
AWFUL idea… just AWFUL!!!!
Dreamed up by a pve player…
If you want to reduce ques in wvw then you work on making the other pvp content more attractive… for example strict 1v1 arenas… gvg arenas with different number sets 50v50, 40v40, 30v30, 25v25, 20v20, 15v15, 10v10, 8v8.
other ideas include increasing server size and introducing new maps to wvw… it would be fun to have an underwater map in wvw… or even a sky map where castles are replaced with air ships… but this would have a negative impact on low populated servers as it would increase the number of objectives that are needed to be defended.
But to replace pvp content with dungeons… urghh… can’t think of anything worse (oh wait jumping puzzles inside wvw).
Nymeria Meliae | SoS
Acid Bath Babies Go Plop Plop [FizZ]
Acid Bath Babies Go Plop Plop [FizZ]
Thats pretty much the worst idea for WVW i have ever heard, and for that i congratulate you.
As stated, they should be adding Arena’s these would’nt however be just for GvG. You could set up teams and such or go in on a GvG fight.
Arenas: 1 Vs 1, 3 Vs 3, 5 Vs 5, 10 Vs 10
With various Map styles, maybe even have map specific traps and bonuses
AWFUL idea… just AWFUL!!!!
Dreamed up by a pve player…
If you want to reduce ques in wvw then you work on making the other pvp content more attractive… for example strict 1v1 arenas… gvg arenas with different number sets 50v50, 40v40, 30v30, 25v25, 20v20, 15v15, 10v10, 8v8.
other ideas include increasing server size and introducing new maps to wvw… it would be fun to have an underwater map in wvw… or even a sky map where castles are replaced with air ships… but this would have a negative impact on low populated servers as it would increase the number of objectives that are needed to be defended.
But to replace pvp content with dungeons… urghh… can’t think of anything worse (oh wait jumping puzzles inside wvw).
you clearly didn’t read the entire thing. you must have read two lines about what happens should a server fail at the reinforcement cap. The reinforcement idea is actually an obvious anti pve implementation. the fact that you die a lot means you will cost the wvw for your server.
What it sounds like you and the other person on this thread come from large servers that don’t use strategy but simply zerg all over the map and karma train, which is actually MORE pve than PvP.
the pve content would only occur because 2 servers were so fail and died so much they ran down their counters. please read AND comprehend first before posting.
I read the whole thing – terrible idea. Pretty much every “positive” point you try to make would end up being a negative.
Kaa Mchorror NSP grenadier [hayt]
AWFUL idea… just AWFUL!!!!
Dreamed up by a pve player…
If you want to reduce ques in wvw then you work on making the other pvp content more attractive… for example strict 1v1 arenas… gvg arenas with different number sets 50v50, 40v40, 30v30, 25v25, 20v20, 15v15, 10v10, 8v8.
other ideas include increasing server size and introducing new maps to wvw… it would be fun to have an underwater map in wvw… or even a sky map where castles are replaced with air ships… but this would have a negative impact on low populated servers as it would increase the number of objectives that are needed to be defended.
But to replace pvp content with dungeons… urghh… can’t think of anything worse (oh wait jumping puzzles inside wvw).
and I just noticed your signature. You are from Sanctum of Rall, my case and point. I could tell you were from a high pop zerg server just by your reactionary response. Again the idea of reinforcements counter is anti zerg.
Zerging is NOT pvp , its pve.
I read the whole thing – terrible idea. Pretty much every “positive” point you try to make would end up being a negative.
Again you must be another karma train person. Explain to me then why they are not good instead of just saying so…
What it sounds like is you are whining that someone is threatening to end the meta Zerg strategy of WvW.
Because all a smaller server with good pvpers would have to do is run a Zerg busting build and go on prime time of a larger server and destroy their karma trains over and over.
Are you not understanding it takes losing 5000 reinforcements on ALL maps ( your BL , opponents BL and EBG) to trigger this sudden death… if you can’t keep one map open by friday. Your server is just terribad at pvp.
End of discussion.
1) Why would you offer, as a possible ending, a PvE style encounter to a PvP(ish) zone?
2)You are going to penalize players for Disconnects (honest disconnect, not a-f4, while in combat).
3)This would encourage Spies to have a much more active role in how the week turns out (lemmings off cliffs over and over and over).
4)You are trying to hurt players that aren’t as good as others by inviting other players from berating the “noobier” players for dying. This would create a much more hostile environment, where servers start attacking their own.
5) This would not discourage Glass Cannon builds at all. From a GC PoV, so long as they kill at least 2 people for every one of their death, they’ve done good.
I could go on, but I think I’ll stop for now. Horribly bad idea, not fully thought out, would do nothing but tear the WvW community apart IMO.
1) Why would you offer, as a possible ending, a PvE style encounter to a PvP(ish) zone?
2)You are going to penalize players for Disconnects (honest disconnect, not a-f4, while in combat).
3)This would encourage Spies to have a much more active role in how the week turns out (lemmings off cliffs over and over and over).
4)You are trying to hurt players that aren’t as good as others by inviting other players from berating the “noobier” players for dying. This would create a much more hostile environment, where servers start attacking their own.
5) This would not discourage Glass Cannon builds at all. From a GC PoV, so long as they kill at least 2 people for every one of their death, they’ve done good.
I could go on, but I think I’ll stop for now. Horribly bad idea, not fully thought out, would do nothing but tear the WvW community apart IMO.
1. you like most are making the mistake that wvw is a pvp zone… it is not. If it were you would NOT be allowed to wear your pve gear into it. There would be no crafting places or gathering nodes. WvW is just AS MUCH a PvE zone as a pvp zone. This is why it REWARDS PVE with buffs. Instead of making those winners travel somewhere else to do their farming they can go into anyone of the maps in the event of a reinforcement win/loss and farm there. This would also add new content to a stale map.
2. These are suggestions. This is not a live implementation or beta for that matter , the rest of the burden would be Anet to handle spies and what not. Also from my experience the "spy " thing is a lot like “voter fraud” you hear about it people act like its a constant threat but really it rarely happens. Also the counter would know via the combat log if you jumped off a cliff and killed yourself and if any type of player based damage was done to you before it happened.
3. Again, the counter would know the difference between a disconnect and a kill by either counting when you click a waypoint after being dead or just taking it out of the combat log.
4. This would actually discourage glass cannons. With the current situation of glass cannons in wvw you might be killing two people but those two people are glass cannons also. Against a balanced build or even worse a bunker/evasive build a glass cannon would do nothing except cause a loss to his or her team.
5. There wouldn’t really be much of a split in the community. I said nothing to stop up-levels or people who don’t pvp as much from coming in AFTER their server has beaten two others through reinforcements. This would be their time to reap the benefits of out playing other servers and ask those that did the fighting their strategies and builds. Also you have to be horrible to run out reinforcements on every single map and cause a loss. It would be a server wide effort and something a small group of people could NOT do even over the course of the week.
1) Why would you offer, as a possible ending, a PvE style encounter to a PvP(ish) zone?
2)You are going to penalize players for Disconnects (honest disconnect, not a-f4, while in combat).
3)This would encourage Spies to have a much more active role in how the week turns out (lemmings off cliffs over and over and over).
4)You are trying to hurt players that aren’t as good as others by inviting other players from berating the “noobier” players for dying. This would create a much more hostile environment, where servers start attacking their own.
5) This would not discourage Glass Cannon builds at all. From a GC PoV, so long as they kill at least 2 people for every one of their death, they’ve done good.
I could go on, but I think I’ll stop for now. Horribly bad idea, not fully thought out, would do nothing but tear the WvW community apart IMO.
1. Also, what else would you do after you went around capping all the unoccupied towers and camps etc because two servers died so much they depleted their reinforcements? You would just leave an empty world until reset if two terrible servers completely destroyed themselves on a tuesday?
@Raphael Williams.3671
1) I’m fully aware of the amount of PvE that is in WvW. What I think you fail to recognize is it’s a PvP zone. I’m not one of those that tells people to get out if they are here only to harvest nodes, or map the zone, or do anything that isn’t PvP oriented, that’s their business. The scenario in which you described that extra event from occurring would just kitten off the WvWders. Preventing PvP in a PvP zone (yes, WvW is a PvP zone, that’s why we can attack other players) is a bad idea. I know where you are coming from (playing against 2 servers where you control almost all the maps isn’t all that fun) but this solution would not help matters. It would help PvE players way more then WvW players.
MAYBE, if your event you were tied to another random WvW map that would warrant further investigation (like if you “conquer” your own WvW you gain the chance of WvWder in the tier above you, but I have no clue how they would implement this).
2) The “Spy thing” happens all the time, but their effects aren’t as bad as they are made out to be (just very annoying when it does happen).
3) You have far more faith in their combat log then I do. ATM, when you dc in combat, it is considered a death. If you were to add this as an exception to your “counter” then people would be alt f4ing to save this counter. No other way around this (I know, DCs aren’t a huge part of WvW, it was just 1 example of how the counter could be manipulated/exploited).
4) (which was actually 5) I still don’t see how this would discourage GC builds. I don’t play one myself, and rarely die to them (unless it’s mes kitten that I don’t see coming). GC builds (at least on my server) are either used for roaming or lazy zerg farm. In either case, your change won’t change how they play. (again, at least on my server)
5. There wouldn’t really be much of a split in the community. I said nothing to stop up-levels or people who don’t pvp as much from coming in AFTER their server has beaten two others through reinforcements. This would be their time to reap the benefits of out playing other servers and ask those that did the fighting their strategies and builds. Also you have to be horrible to run out reinforcements on every single map and cause a loss. It would be a server wide effort and something a small group of people could NOT do even over the course of the week.
5) (4) WHAT??!? This is even worst then how I interpreted your OP. So if you are up-leveled, you plan for them to come to WvW AFTER WvW is over. How does this make any kind of sense man? And using your original number of 5000 reinforcements per map (I know this number is fluid and can change), I also think you are underestimating the number of people that die in every map, every day. Maybe if you have low pop servers this isn’t as much of an issue, but on higher pop servers the number of deaths is rather large.
1. Also, what else would you do after you went around capping all the unoccupied towers and camps etc because two servers died so much they depleted their reinforcements? You would just leave an empty world until reset if two terrible servers completely destroyed themselves on a tuesday?
I will leave this alone, as you are just trying to solve a problem that your new system would implement. As it stands right now, if two terrible servers completely destroyed themselves on a tuesday, they would just come back the next day.
I read the whole thing – terrible idea. Pretty much every “positive” point you try to make would end up being a negative.
Again you must be another karma train person. Explain to me then why they are not good instead of just saying so…
What it sounds like is you are whining that someone is threatening to end the meta Zerg strategy of WvW.
Because all a smaller server with good pvpers would have to do is run a Zerg busting build and go on prime time of a larger server and destroy their karma trains over and over.
Are you not understanding it takes losing 5000 reinforcements on ALL maps ( your BL , opponents BL and EBG) to trigger this sudden death… if you can’t keep one map open by friday. Your server is just terribad at pvp.
End of discussion.
A karma train person would not refuse to run with less than 10 in a group. PvE elements already disrupt WvW as it is. I don’t want any more tourist or fair weather players worried about their own agenda rather than the larger good of the server. Let the lemmings zerg – you don’t have to zerg if you don’t want to.
Kaa Mchorror NSP grenadier [hayt]
I read the whole thing – terrible idea. Pretty much every “positive” point you try to make would end up being a negative.
Again you must be another karma train person. Explain to me then why they are not good instead of just saying so…
What it sounds like is you are whining that someone is threatening to end the meta Zerg strategy of WvW.
Because all a smaller server with good pvpers would have to do is run a Zerg busting build and go on prime time of a larger server and destroy their karma trains over and over.
Are you not understanding it takes losing 5000 reinforcements on ALL maps ( your BL , opponents BL and EBG) to trigger this sudden death… if you can’t keep one map open by friday. Your server is just terribad at pvp.
End of discussion.
A karma train person would not refuse to run with less than 10 in a group. PvE elements already disrupt WvW as it is. I don’t want any more tourist or fair weather players worried about their own agenda rather than the larger good of the server. Let the lemmings zerg – you don’t have to zerg if you don’t want to.
right now the only way to win at the higher tiers is to have a larger zerg and more people online than the other servers. This is not what Anet wanted. They wanted a more strategic and tactical approach and limiting the number of times you can die would do this regardless of any pve freebies added in because people were so bad they exhausted all the reinforcements before reset. You are focusing too much on the fact some npc mobs would spawn in the event 2 TEAMS… THAT TWO WHOLE SERVERS died a MINIMUM of 20,000 times EACH… not cumulative , EACH in one week across ALL wvw Maps. what you are doing is trying to distract from the larger issue of skillless zerging throughout every tier of wvw.
This is the bottom line which many of you people are clearly overlooking ( and probably intentionally ) the quota would limit the number of times you can die, and add more strategy ( even if you want to label them as “splitting the community” and “spying” but they are still strategies.) to the game than what is being done now, which is nothing.
The pve elements you are complaining about are actually very few, and minimalist Some are even optional as you don’t always need them to win (ogres etc) but they make wvw what it is. If you don’t like it then you need to be doing spvp, NOT wvw.
Wow… just wow. L2WvW.
Anomaly
Wow… just wow. L2WvW.
Lmao at a SoS player telling me to L2WVW I’ve been playing on a tier 2 server for a year now and you are tier 4. Please take your own advice.
Wow… just wow. L2WvW.
Lmao at a SoS player telling me to L2WVW I’ve been playing on a tier 2 server for a year now and you are tier 4. Please take your own advice.
Tiers mean nothing more than population and coverage not skill.
Kaa Mchorror NSP grenadier [hayt]
Wow… just wow. L2WvW.
Lmao at a SoS player telling me to L2WVW I’ve been playing on a tier 2 server for a year now and you are tier 4. Please take your own advice.
Guess you missed it but they got rid of tiers a while ago dude. WvW dungeons lmao… great idea dude :/
Anomaly
Why this is a terrible idea
Punishing a server for deaths discourages players from fighting while outnumbered.
right now the only way to win at the higher tiers is to have a larger zerg and more people online than the other servers.
Lmao at a SoS player telling me to L2WVW I’ve been playing on a tier 2 server for a year now and you are tier 4. Please take your own advice.
By your own admission, you play on a higher tier server, and by your logic, the only way to win at the higher tiers is to have a larger zerg, and you are telling him he needs to L2P? Since when did zerging require any kind of skill?
If you really want this suggestion to have any weight, rethink your idea, cuz right now YOU aren’t realizing how badly this would hurt WvW. I’m sorry to burst your bubble, but 20 000 deaths OVER THE COURSE OF 1 WEEK is way too small. I’m going to focus on this number, because you seem to think this number is HUGE and only bads will reach this number.
20 000 allows an average of less then 3000 deaths per day. Or less 750 deaths per BL/EB per DAY. Sound like a lot? IF 100 people died 8 times each over the course of each day, you would loose. IF 200 people over the course of a day died 4 times each you loose (well they only have to die 3.6 times each). Do you think more or less then 200 people enter each EB/BL each DAY? and do you think they die more or less then 4 times each?
How many people does your server normally field each day? I’m guessing the number is higher then 200. How often do they die (add the good players to the bad, don’t just take the average of your servers best group)?