(edited by Einlanzer.1627)
Remove Gear Levels, Keep Rarities
This would also say that a level 1 can have a full set of CoF or HoTW or full set of Arah gear. it then cheapens the effect of seeing them. This also means that a level one toon can start with Legendary’s and Ascended items
This would also say that a level 1 can have a full set of CoF or HoTW or full set of Arah gear. it then cheapens the effect of seeing them. This also means that a level one toon can start with Legendary’s and Ascended items
Not necessarily, they could address this in quite a few different ways. Make them bind on pick-up, or put level requirements on rarity levels rather than on specific items.
Actually, the biggest complication I see is Karma vendors, but they can just provide unique skins and interesting effects/stats.
I guess I am not agreeing with the fact that Levels are present on weapons. I don’t see or have the problems you do with them apparently.
It worked great in Gw why not use it for GW2? And yes I remember running around Ascelon in Drok’s armor after having gotten a Drok’s run. I also had some nice Stormbow’s that I used at lvl 5. This is what we talk about when we say Skill < Gear.
Not necessarily, they could address this in quite a few different ways. Make them bind on pick-up, or put level requirements on rarity levels rather than on specific items.
Actually, the biggest complication I see is Karma vendors, but they can just provide unique skins and interesting effects/stats.
So , if i drop a “low lvl” rare , now it would be actually be high level and i wont be able to use anyway.
Or even better , now our items are all bind to our chars right when we get them and we cant trade them anymore…
Both your solutions are horrible to the problem presented to your idea and at least your solutions are worst than the current system in my opinion.
Gear Grind: Confirmed – Searching New MMO: Found – Changing MMO: Waiting Launch
But gear even in GW1 was Utility it support what you were doing not suceeded what you were doing. I knwo that sounds confusing, as I just confused myselfso example time
55 monk
I could have the best gear in the game for a 55 monk.
But with out the Skill to back up the style I was playing my gear didn’t do me any good.
The same holds true for GW2 Skill> Gear
A lot of people have this WoWmentallity when it comes to MMO’s now ( and no WoW is not the only one just one of the more popular ones ), in those games Gear> Skill. If you had the money or time the gear would drag you through anything you needed.
In GW that was not the case and in GW 2 it is defiantly not he case.
When my Guardian was 35 I ran AC Explorer Path 1 and was told by the 80 guardian in all SE gear that I needed to not try and tank I would get slaughtered. From start to first boss the 80 died 7 times. I took the first boss, as the 80 laughed and “allowed me too” then mocking me saying I will die in 3 seconds. By the end I was still alive, never lost aggro and didn’t go down once. Level has nothing to do with it, and level reqs need to stay on weapons and armor
Not necessarily, they could address this in quite a few different ways. Make them bind on pick-up, or put level requirements on rarity levels rather than on specific items.
Actually, the biggest complication I see is Karma vendors, but they can just provide unique skins and interesting effects/stats.
So , if i drop a “low lvl” rare , now it would be actually be high level and i wont be able to use anyway.
Or even better , now our items are all bind to our chars right when we get them and we cant trade them anymore…
Both your solutions are horrible to the problem presented to your idea and at least your solutions are worst than the current system in my opinion.
No they aren’t, you’re just being a naysayer without thinking about it or caring to offer any other solutions while telling me mine are horrible.
I never said you’d have to be level 80 to equip a rare; in fact a staggered system is already in place in the game from the minimum level you find each rarity of gear. I don’t know the exact numbers, but it’s something resembling this:
Fine – 5
Masterwork – 15
Rare – 35
Exotic – 62
Legendary – 80
Those can serve as benchmarks to what level you can first equip an item of each rarity level and it would work out just fine.
(edited by Einlanzer.1627)
Not necessarily, they could address this in quite a few different ways. Make them bind on pick-up, or put level requirements on rarity levels rather than on specific items.
Actually, the biggest complication I see is Karma vendors, but they can just provide unique skins and interesting effects/stats.
So , if i drop a “low lvl” rare , now it would be actually be high level and i wont be able to use anyway.
Or even better , now our items are all bind to our chars right when we get them and we cant trade them anymore…
Both your solutions are horrible to the problem presented to your idea and at least your solutions are worst than the current system in my opinion.
No they aren’t, you’re just being a naysayer without thinking about it or caring to offer any other solutions while telling me mine are horrible.
I never said you’d have to be level 80 to equip a rare; in fact a staggered system is already in place in the game from the minimum level you find each rarity of gear. I don’t know the exact numbers, but it’s something resembling this:
Fine – 5
Masterwork – 15
Rare – 35
Exotic – 62
Legendary – 80Those can serve as benchmarks to what level you can first equip an item of each rarity level and it would work out just fine.
Where did you get those numbers cause my level 30 found a Rare
It seems to me that gear having both levels and rarities needlessly complicates the game, on top of being particularly unrealistic from a simulationist point of view. Loot tables are messy, there’s so much gear in the game that it’s trite and unexciting (at least until level 80), and considering the level speed, number of levels, and build options you have to spend excessive amounts of time updating and micromanaging your gear.
Why can there not just be a rarity system, where the only distinctions between weapons and armor are skin (theme), specific stat boosts (build) and rarity (power)? Whites could be much more prominent and you would only gradually replace white gear with blue, green, yellow, and so on as you progressed through the game, and doing so would be much more exciting.
Such a system would have numerous advantages:
1. You would not be as inundated by gear as you played through the game, which actually makes it more interesting, and gear obtainment more exciting. Despite what MMO designers seem to think, too much gear is too much
2. You could hang on to gear you like (because of the skin or the theme) for longer because it isn’t obsoleted within 3-5 levels.
3. Inventory management would be a lot less messy, you could more easily maintain sets for different builds as you leveled.
4. Loot tables could be cleaned up substantially which would mean they would be easier to make more interesting and diverse.
5. Crafting could be overhauled in ways that could both make it more interesting and positively impact the economy of the game.
6. Development resources could go toward making cooler gear rather than just more gear.Obviously, such a change would require retooling things here and there, but if they didn’t want to go to all the trouble of “fixing” scaling, they could just make it to where the gear’s stats scaled with your level instead of having their own level.
1. No one is “inundated” by gear.
2. That’s what transmutation stones are for.
3. Inventory management would be no more or less messy. You’d still have to keep multiple sets if you wanted multiple purposes.
4. How on earth does “cleaning up” loot tables make them more diverse, let alone more interesting?
5. Be specific. I see no way that severely slashing the volume of gear in the game would make crafting better or more interesting.
6. Gear has already been developed. No additional resources are required because of the level system. Unless you have a time machine…
It seems to me that gear having both levels and rarities needlessly complicates the game, on top of being particularly unrealistic from a simulationist point of view. Loot tables are messy, there’s so much gear in the game that it’s trite and unexciting (at least until level 80), and considering the level speed, number of levels, and build options you have to spend excessive amounts of time updating and micromanaging your gear.
Why can there not just be a rarity system, where the only distinctions between weapons and armor are skin (theme), specific stat boosts (build) and rarity (power)? Whites could be much more prominent and you would only gradually replace white gear with blue, green, yellow, and so on as you progressed through the game, and doing so would be much more exciting.
Such a system would have numerous advantages:
1. You would not be as inundated by gear as you played through the game, which actually makes it more interesting, and gear obtainment more exciting. Despite what MMO designers seem to think, too much gear is too much
2. You could hang on to gear you like (because of the skin or the theme) for longer because it isn’t obsoleted within 3-5 levels.
3. Inventory management would be a lot less messy, you could more easily maintain sets for different builds as you leveled.
4. Loot tables could be cleaned up substantially which would mean they would be easier to make more interesting and diverse.
5. Crafting could be overhauled in ways that could both make it more interesting and positively impact the economy of the game.
6. Development resources could go toward making cooler gear rather than just more gear.Obviously, such a change would require retooling things here and there, but if they didn’t want to go to all the trouble of “fixing” scaling, they could just make it to where the gear’s stats scaled with your level instead of having their own level.
1. No one is “inundated” by gear.
2. That’s what transmutation stones are for.
3. Inventory management would be no more or less messy. You’d still have to keep multiple sets if you wanted multiple purposes.
4. How on earth does “cleaning up” loot tables make them more diverse, let alone more interesting?
5. Be specific. I see no way that severely slashing the volume of gear in the game would make crafting better or more interesting.
6. Gear has already been developed. No additional resources are required because of the level system. Unless you have a time machine…
I’m not going to sit here and debate each point with you, your mind is clearly made up that you like conventional MMO loot systems controlling your game experience.
This is something I learned from 4th edition D&D – when you overwhelm a game with gear, especially when a huge percentage of the gear is thematically overlapped and only minor statistical variations exist, it makes the acquisition of gear feel trite and uninteresting in most cases.
As quickly as you level in this game, you should, if you want to, be able to use the same piece of gear for more than 5 levels without it becoming obsolete. It should also be relatively rare (though not too rare) and exciting when you get an upgrade, instead of routinely picking up common weapons and armor +/- 5 levels the one you’re using.
(edited by Einlanzer.1627)
It seems to me that gear having both levels and rarities needlessly complicates the game, on top of being particularly unrealistic from a simulationist point of view. Loot tables are messy, there’s so much gear in the game that it’s trite and unexciting (at least until level 80), and considering the level speed, number of levels, and build options you have to spend excessive amounts of time updating and micromanaging your gear.
Why can there not just be a rarity system, where the only distinctions between weapons and armor are skin (theme), specific stat boosts (build) and rarity (power)? Whites could be much more prominent and you would only gradually replace white gear with blue, green, yellow, and so on as you progressed through the game, and doing so would be much more exciting.
Such a system would have numerous advantages:
1. You would not be as inundated by gear as you played through the game, which actually makes it more interesting, and gear obtainment more exciting. Despite what MMO designers seem to think, too much gear is too much
2. You could hang on to gear you like (because of the skin or the theme) for longer because it isn’t obsoleted within 3-5 levels.
3. Inventory management would be a lot less messy, you could more easily maintain sets for different builds as you leveled.
4. Loot tables could be cleaned up substantially which would mean they would be easier to make more interesting and diverse.
5. Crafting could be overhauled in ways that could both make it more interesting and positively impact the economy of the game.
6. Development resources could go toward making cooler gear rather than just more gear.Obviously, such a change would require retooling things here and there, but if they didn’t want to go to all the trouble of “fixing” scaling, they could just make it to where the gear’s stats scaled with your level instead of having their own level.
1. No one is “inundated” by gear.
2. That’s what transmutation stones are for.
3. Inventory management would be no more or less messy. You’d still have to keep multiple sets if you wanted multiple purposes.
4. How on earth does “cleaning up” loot tables make them more diverse, let alone more interesting?
5. Be specific. I see no way that severely slashing the volume of gear in the game would make crafting better or more interesting.
6. Gear has already been developed. No additional resources are required because of the level system. Unless you have a time machine…I’m not going to sit here and debate each point with you, your mind is clearly made up that you like conventional MMO loot systems controlling your game experience.
This is something I learned from 4th edition D&D – when you overwhelm a game with gear, especially when a huge percentage of the gear is thematically overlapped and only minor statistical variations exist, it makes the acquisition of gear feel trite and uninteresting in most cases.
As quickly as you level in this game, you should, if you want to, be able to use the same piece of gear for more than 5 levels without it becoming obsolete. It should also be existing when you get an upgrade, instead of a level 30 version of the same level 25 dagger you’re currently using.
your mind is clearly made up that you like conventional MMO loot systems controlling your game experience.
Please name one online game and well since you mentioned the crap knowing and D&D 4th ed ( look it is wow on paper to get people to play DnD and stop playing wow, 3.5 was much much better and over a better system. Although what version is better not the point here) so tell me one Campaign or one game that is fueled and controlled by loot?
As quickly as you level in this game, you should, if you want to, be able to use the same piece of gear for more than 5 levels without it becoming obsolete. It should also be existing when you get an upgrade, instead of a level 30 version of the same level 25 dagger you’re currently using.
I just finished leveling my warrior, at level 50 something I still had level 25 gear, mainly cause I forgot. So please tell me how I am replacing gear ever 5 levels?
Which BTW it was the same on my Gaurdian (80) Ranger(41) Thieve(35) Engineer(57) Elementalist(38) Necro(52) Mesmer(42) Warrior(80)
Please explain how people are replacing their gear every 5 levels?
Most people that say forget debating your mind is made up are bowing out with out admitting they are wrong, even though they know they are wrong. Now I am not saying your wrong I am asking you to explain your situation.
Not necessarily, they could address this in quite a few different ways. Make them bind on pick-up, or put level requirements on rarity levels rather than on specific items.
Actually, the biggest complication I see is Karma vendors, but they can just provide unique skins and interesting effects/stats.
So , if i drop a “low lvl” rare , now it would be actually be high level and i wont be able to use anyway.
Or even better , now our items are all bind to our chars right when we get them and we cant trade them anymore…
Both your solutions are horrible to the problem presented to your idea and at least your solutions are worst than the current system in my opinion.
No they aren’t, you’re just being a naysayer without thinking about it or caring to offer any other solutions while telling me mine are horrible.
I never said you’d have to be level 80 to equip a rare; in fact a staggered system is already in place in the game from the minimum level you find each rarity of gear. I don’t know the exact numbers, but it’s something resembling this:
Fine – 5
Masterwork – 15
Rare – 35
Exotic – 62
Legendary – 80Those can serve as benchmarks to what level you can first equip an item of each rarity level and it would work out just fine.
Where did you get those numbers cause my level 30 found a Rare
I was looking on the guild wars 2 DB, but yes it appears there are a few items for 30 and then it goes to 35. So it’s 30 for rare and 60 for exotic it looks like.
Ahhh fair enough I am content with that answer
Please name one online game and well since you mentioned the crap knowing and D&D 4th ed ( look it is wow on paper to get people to play DnD and stop playing wow, 3.5 was much much better and over a better system. Although what version is better not the point here) so tell me one Campaign or one game that is fueled and controlled by loot?
As quickly as you level in this game, you should, if you want to, be able to use the same piece of gear for more than 5 levels without it becoming obsolete. It should also be existing when you get an upgrade, instead of a level 30 version of the same level 25 dagger you’re currently using.
I just finished leveling my warrior, at level 50 something I still had level 25 gear, mainly cause I forgot. So please tell me how I am replacing gear ever 5 levels?
Which BTW it was the same on my Gaurdian (80) Ranger(41) Thieve(35) Engineer(57) Elementalist(38) Necro(52) Mesmer(42) Warrior(80)
Please explain how people are replacing their gear every 5 levels?
Most people that say forget debating your mind is made up are bowing out with out admitting they are wrong, even though they know they are wrong. Now I am not saying your wrong I am asking you to explain your situation.
Frankly, I can’t really follow your first paragraph. For the next part, you may not have upgraded your gear every 5 levels, but all that means is that you were weaker than you could have been while playing.
Secondly, no, if he was open to actually debating he would not have presented his post as he did, in which case I would have continued discussing those points as I did with yours. As it is, it’s like arguing with a creationist about evolution, which is not something I care to bother with.
I’m not going to sit here and debate each point with you, your mind is clearly made up that you like conventional MMO loot systems controlling your game experience.
This is something I learned from 4th edition D&D – when you overwhelm a game with gear, especially when a huge percentage of the gear is thematically overlapped and only minor statistical variations exist, it makes the acquisition of gear feel trite and uninteresting in most cases.
As quickly as you level in this game, you should, if you want to, be able to use the same piece of gear for more than 5 levels without it becoming obsolete. It should also be relatively rare (though not too rare) and exciting when you get an upgrade, instead of routinely picking up common weapons and armor +/- 5 levels the one you’re using.
The “well you’ve clearly made up your mind” dodge is about as old and evasive as it gets. If you don’t have good reasons or good answers, just say so. I’m giving you an opportunity here to strengthen your case for these changes. Be specific. How does doing these things actually improve the game?
Part of the leveling experience is the opportunity, on a regular basis, to upgrade. If you don’t like it, I’m not sure why you play loot based games in the first place. D&D is not comparable to video games for the sole reason that the game is run by a dungeon master who can change the pace and difficulty of the game at will to match whatever the heck their party wants. Unfortunately, video games can’t offer us that tailored experience. As others have said, keeping up with your level in gear isn’t so important. Until you hit max level or close to it, you are done no specific disservice by only bothering to upgrade gear every 10 levels or even more.
Please name one online game and well since you mentioned the crap knowing and D&D 4th ed ( look it is wow on paper to get people to play DnD and stop playing wow, 3.5 was much much better and over a better system. Although what version is better not the point here) so tell me one Campaign or one game that is fueled and controlled by loot?
As quickly as you level in this game, you should, if you want to, be able to use the same piece of gear for more than 5 levels without it becoming obsolete. It should also be existing when you get an upgrade, instead of a level 30 version of the same level 25 dagger you’re currently using.
I just finished leveling my warrior, at level 50 something I still had level 25 gear, mainly cause I forgot. So please tell me how I am replacing gear ever 5 levels?
Which BTW it was the same on my Gaurdian (80) Ranger(41) Thieve(35) Engineer(57) Elementalist(38) Necro(52) Mesmer(42) Warrior(80)
Please explain how people are replacing their gear every 5 levels?
Most people that say forget debating your mind is made up are bowing out with out admitting they are wrong, even though they know they are wrong. Now I am not saying your wrong I am asking you to explain your situation.
Frankly, I can’t really follow your first paragraph. For the next part, you may not have upgraded your gear every 5 levels, but all that means is that you were weaker than you could have been while playing.
Secondly, no, if he was open to actually debating he would not have presented his post as he did, in which case I would have continued discussing those points as I did with yours. As it is, it’s like arguing with a creationist about evolution, which is not something I care to bother with.
My first paragraph might have been hard since I had to bash on WoW 4.0…. I mean DnD 4.0. here is the jest, Name one game that is out there that is an online MMO that is not base or controlled by gear?
I may have been weaker but I never struggled, and I never had a problem with it, thank you Arena Net for not making a Gear depended game. My skill was well enough , sure i could have done things better but I never wiped a group in dungeons I never failed quest. So the question still stands, Why do you need to change gear every 5 levels? I mean sure you can but I can also go and jump out of a perfectly good air plane with no parachute, the option is open to me, does it mean I have to do it? No
I am just trying to understand how making this re-work of gear as you provided for us is going to make things better? How is it going to make crafting more interesting?
Not sure about the other guy but I seriously want to know. I think I have proven my case just fine as to why levels on gear are no big thing, and doesn’t need to change.
I just want to see them take gear back to how it was in GW. As I said before, I had numerous toons that left Ascelon city and were run to Droknor’s Forge to get armor. I would also give my alt toons the Rare named weapons that they could use. All this BS about Rares, Exotics, Legendary and Ascended gear would be gone if they implemented the same type of gear progression they used in GW. In other words no gear progression just story progression.
And Kaimick, Guild Wars may have only been a CoRPG and not a MMORPG; but it survived, nay thrived, for 8 years with no gear progression.
(edited by Galphar.3901)
I just want to see them take gear back to how it was in GW. As I said before, I had numerous toons that left Ascelon city and were run to Droknor’s Forge to get armor. I would also give my alt toons the Rare named weapons that they could use. All this BS about Rares, Exotics, Legendary and Ascended gear would be gone if they implemented the same type of gear progression they used in GW. In other words no gear progression just story progression.
Yes but as much as I loved GW1 it was very linear. Personally I don’t mind the Exotic and the legendary and the ascended. I do wish they would put more armor skins in the Gem house though, the only problem that GW has always had is till max level Armor all looks the same for the most part. This is why people did the droks run ( thank you for sins and dervish I made a killing off those runs ) for a different look.
I think for people Like you if they implemented more skins or changed the look of the armor more it wouldn’t be so bad. But my warrior looked the same form 20 – I think around 60 or 65.
I would purchase skins out of the Gem house if there were more there.
I am just trying to understand how making this re-work of gear as you provided for us is going to make things better? How is it going to make crafting more interesting?
Not sure about the other guy but I seriously want to know. I think I have proven my case just fine as to why levels on gear are no big thing, and doesn’t need to change.
That’s all I’m looking for. I’d like something concrete or specific detailing how this would be a good idea and so far all I’ve seen a vague, unspecific argument ultimately amounting to “it just would.” Any good idea should be easily supportable with clear and specific examples.
My Ranger looked the same from lvl2 till 80(HoM Armor). But that’s just because I don’t like ANY of the medium armors for a Ranger(I want my Elite Luxon Armor I had in GW). And one of the funnest things in GW was finding stuff like a “perfect” stormbow in UW. That’s what I want, all level 80 gear equal in base stats with the ability to modify it with inscriptions, runes, sigils or whatever, and just do dungeon runs/Dynamic Events/Farm for the skins.
I’m not going to sit here and debate each point with you, your mind is clearly made up that you like conventional MMO loot systems controlling your game experience.
This is something I learned from 4th edition D&D – when you overwhelm a game with gear, especially when a huge percentage of the gear is thematically overlapped and only minor statistical variations exist, it makes the acquisition of gear feel trite and uninteresting in most cases.
As quickly as you level in this game, you should, if you want to, be able to use the same piece of gear for more than 5 levels without it becoming obsolete. It should also be relatively rare (though not too rare) and exciting when you get an upgrade, instead of routinely picking up common weapons and armor +/- 5 levels the one you’re using.
The “well you’ve clearly made up your mind” dodge is about as old and evasive as it gets. If you don’t have good reasons or good answers, just say so. I’m giving you an opportunity here to strengthen your case for these changes. Be specific. How does doing these things actually improve the game?
Part of the leveling experience is the opportunity, on a regular basis, to upgrade. If you don’t like it, I’m not sure why you play loot based games in the first place. D&D is not comparable to video games for the sole reason that the game is run by a dungeon master who can change the pace and difficulty of the game at will to match whatever the heck their party wants. Unfortunately, video games can’t offer us that tailored experience. As others have said, keeping up with your level in gear isn’t so important. Until you hit max level or close to it, you are done no specific disservice by only bothering to upgrade gear every 10 levels or even more.
The idea is that you would get a variety of different skins for different gear types, and have a variety of different stat combinations on a variety of pieces within each rarity type, and a variety of different rarity types serving as upgrades that you would obtain in a variety of different ways. Therefore, even with levels removed from gear, you would have plenty of opportunities to upgrade and switch around as you played through the game, you just wouldn’t be forced to go out of your way to replace all your gear every few levels or kitten yourself by not doing it. My biggest points are the following, and to put it bluntly I feel strongly that there isn’t much room for debate on at least these two:
1. It’s useless and wasteful to make tons of iterative, thematically indistinct gear that only serves the purpose of replacing a lower level version of more or less the same piece of gear and giving you a minor boost to the same stats over and over. Every piece of gear should be relatively unique on a conceptual/thematic level, which assuming there was a fairly broad range of gear still left in the game, would make gear acquisition more flavorful and therefore more interesting.
2. Following from the point above, having less gear that focuses more on flavor than on boosting the same stats higher would allow the gear data to be populated with more interesting types of gear that could be distributed in the game world in more interesting ways, such as unique ‘thematic’ zone drops and very hard to find crafting recipes.
(edited by Einlanzer.1627)
I am just trying to understand how making this re-work of gear as you provided for us is going to make things better? How is it going to make crafting more interesting?
Not sure about the other guy but I seriously want to know. I think I have proven my case just fine as to why levels on gear are no big thing, and doesn’t need to change.
That’s all I’m looking for. I’d like something concrete or specific detailing how this would be a good idea and so far all I’ve seen a vague, unspecific argument ultimately amounting to “it just would.” Any good idea should be easily supportable with clear and specific examples.
Also take into consideration good ideas can be good with no Support to them, as the person has yet to work out the fine details of the benefits with out harming something else.
It is like I said on IMDB.com on the Dexter forums,
" I am not really sure why but this season of Dexter is just Blah for me, it is not garbing my attention as other seasons have done."
I wasn’t sure why, and I am still not sure why I do know that the season is picking up for me a lil.
I am not defending anyone just pointing out a fact of statement Ideas can be good with nothing to support it. Now weather they stay solid and good is another story.
The idea is that you would get a variety of different skins for different gear types, and have a variety of different stat combinations on a variety of pieces within each rarity type, and a variety of different rarity types serving as upgrades that you would obtain in a variety of different ways. Therefore, even with levels removed from gear, you would have plenty of opportunities to upgrade and switch around as you played through the game. My biggest points are the following, and to put it bluntly I feel strongly that there isn’t much room for debate on at least these two:
1. It’s useless and wasteful to make tons of iterative, thematically indistinct gear that only serves the purpose of replacing a lower level version of more or less the same piece of gear and giving you a minor boost to the same stats over and over. Every piece of gear should be relatively unique on a conceptual/thematic level, which assuming there was a fairly broad range of gear still left in the game, would make gear acquisition more flavorful and therefore more interesting.
2. Following from the point above, having less gear that focuses more on flavor than on boosting the same stats higher would allow the gear data to be populated with more interesting types of gear that could be distributed in the game world in more interesting ways, such as unique ‘thematic’ zone drops and very hard to find crafting recipes.
Now we’re getting somewhere with the details. I don’t agree with your assessment on the gear being wasteful. I get that you don’t like the idea of small incremental improvements, but as I said, it’s widely demonstrated that there’s minimal impact to not upgrading your gear more often than every 10 levels or so.
To address point 2, I’m going to pose a question again that I still haven’t seen an answer for. How does taking away gear that ultimately takes no meaningful amount of resources to add to the game free up any resources to make more unique designs? They already wrote formulas for stats. At a given level, fine gear of a given prefix is going to give +x this and +y that. It doesn’t take an item designer’s time to do any of that. Given that I see zero correlation between taking this out and in any way empowering AN to add more diverse appearances to the game. No matter what the power structure of gear is, it’s going to take the same creativity and the same amount of man-hours to create a new design. Honestly, the folks who design appearance and the folks who decide gear stats are probably entirely different people working on entirely different teams. I’m sure they collaborate but it’s purely a different set of talents.
I am not replying as the post will be miles long now
The idea is that you would get a variety of different skins for different gear types, and have a variety of different stat combinations on a variety of pieces within each rarity type, and a variety of different rarity types serving as upgrades that you would obtain in a variety of different ways. Therefore, even with levels removed from gear, you would have plenty of opportunities to upgrade and switch around as you played through the game. My biggest points are the following, and to put it bluntly I feel strongly that there isn’t much room for debate on at least these two:
I am going to break this down, in a very analytically but professional way so please do not be mad.
The idea is that you would get a variety of different skins for different gear types,
This is already in place in the game. Arena Net I believe has stated there is over 2000 skins per type of equipment.
and have a variety of different stat combinations on a variety of pieces within each rarity type
You have the ability to make just about any combination of stats you like when you are crafting, it is all depending on the Insignia you place on the weapon.
Therefore, even with levels removed from gear, you would have plenty of opportunities to upgrade and switch around as you played through the game
With Transmute stones this is possible so the removal of Level on the item makes no difference.
It’s useless and wasteful to make tons of iterative, thematically indistinct gear that only serves the purpose of replacing a lower level version of more or less the same piece of gear and giving you a minor boost to the same stats over and over.
Not sure why you feel this way, our discussion of how I barely upgraded my gear and did fine and you changing every 5 levels is the reason why there is gear in multiple levels.
Every piece of gear should be relatively unique on a conceptual/thematic level,
With as many skins as they have in the game this is already in the game.
would make gear acquisition more flavorful and therefore more interesting.
this sounds like you want the skins to be different rather than anything else. This one is just a spur of the moment thought so don’t take this one to heart.
Following from the point above, having less gear that focuses more on flavor than on boosting the same stats higher would allow the gear data to be populated with more interesting types of gear that could be distributed in the game world in more interesting ways, such as unique ‘thematic’
So you just want to remove Level Req.s on weapons but keep the same basis, as Arenea Net already does this with the Equipment in place.
crafting recipes
I do wish to see more of these.
Now tell me how does all this Make crafting easier?
As crafting in the game has nothing to do with level of the Armor or Weapon, you make Normal, Blue, Green, Yellow, Gold weapons. I have a 400 Armor and 400 Weaponsmith, Along with Huntsman and tailoring all at 400 and I don’t think once I have looked or even noticed the level of the gear I was making.
When I say "development resources’ that’s not really what I mean. I’m referring simply to the cleanliness of gear data in the game’s code and the efficiency with which it can be massaged in creative ways. It also impacts the user end in the sense that less gear is both easier to manage and more enticing to pursue.
More importantly, having level requirements on gear restricts what they can do with gear within the game. Some creative freedom can be taken with level 80 exotics/ascended/legendary gear but there aren’t really any opportunities to do anything cool with "lesser’ gear or at lower levels.
Here’s a sample scenario: You catch wind at level 40 that some x cool rare item drops from some event boss in this-or-that location. You meet the minimum level requirement to equip that rarity type (in this case let’s go with 30 for rare), but it will be some time before you are ‘over-leveled’ for it, so you decide to travel to that location and attempt to get that item because it has a good distribution of stats for you and you like the theme/skin of the item. So you go farm for a while and it drops for you at level 42. While you will at some point after level 60 obtain an exotic item for that slot that will most likely be an upgrade, that rare item never totally becomes obsolete, you know that it’ll be great for you until at least level 60 and there’s a good chance you will be able to make use it all the way ’til 80 when you can replace it with a good exotic piece.
With narrow ranges of levels that a piece of gear is effective at in the current system, that kind of thing wouldn’t work as an implementation because it just wouldn’t be worth going out of your way to do, you’d outlevel it and find something better too quickly for it to be worthwhile. This is what I mean when I say that a wider range of effective level for gear (which would mean baking tiers fully into the rarity system and removing levels) would be more interesting from a game-play perspective.
(edited by Einlanzer.1627)
Ok I see where your going, and I still don’t agree.
I am not the only one that doesn’t upgrade their gear for quit a few levels. So in turn what you want is a system that makes it so you only have to upgrade every 20 or so levels, and that is already in place.
Your Minmaxing the game, it took me all these post to figure it out, your a minmaxer. This isn’t bad it is a DnD term that means you max out all your stuff to set you for x amount of levels and at this level you will max out so you can do X – Y = Z.
This game doesn’t run like that, and most players don’t think that way, in fact Minmaxing is only about 5 to 17% of the gamer population in online games ( unless your playing EvEOnline )
Ok I see where your going, and I still don’t agree.
I am not the only one that doesn’t upgrade their gear for quit a few levels. So in turn what you want is a system that makes it so you only have to upgrade every 20 or so levels, and that is already in place.
Your Minmaxing the game, it took me all these post to figure it out, your a minmaxer. This isn’t bad it is a DnD term that means you max out all your stuff to set you for x amount of levels and at this level you will max out so you can do X – Y = Z.
This game doesn’t run like that, and most players don’t think that way, in fact Minmaxing is only about 5 to 17% of the gamer population in online games ( unless your playing EvEOnline )
Sorry, no offense, but this post demonstrates that you clearly don’t understand what kind of player I am or what it is I’m trying to promote with this discussion. I’m actually not at all a min/maxer, I’m a simulationist.
what you purpose is the same that is in the game, you just don’t like the levels on it cause you feel that if your level 25 and you have a 23 gear piece on and a 25 piece drops you need to equip it.
When that clearly is not the case. everything else you are stating is already present in the game
It’s an incredibly controversial idea for MMOs, but is a basic unquestioned assumption for MMO game design. My partner had the same idea, and at first I found it difficult to not dismiss it because I couldn’t understand the implications, but the more I’ve thought about it the more I’ve found myself asking “Why not?”.
Kudos to the OP for thinking outside the box and considering a new way GW2 can break ground for MMOs (not counting GW1!).
People vary.
(edited by FacesOfMu.3561)