Guild Wars 2

ArenaNet, please remove the renown hearts from the game.

Now, don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying “make map completion easier” or “remove content from the game” – in the case for the former, I have no problems with adding something new to map completion to make it equally challenging/time consuming or even added Southsun to map completion requirement or adding the “new thing” to Orr zones, and I sure as heck don’t want content removed from the game.

Here’s the reason why I want renown hearts removed from the game:

• They’re static. They never change, thus either you will have to remove them to progress the zone’s story in the “Living World” story or you’re going to have to work around them. This is counteractive with the concept of a dynamic ever-changing world that was supposedly the goal of the game.
• They don’t affect anything. You can do all the hearts in the game and with the exception of some interactive objects, all the areas remain 100% the exact same as before doing the hearts. Unlike with events where things are changed (for a time).
• They’re boring. They’re like traditional MMO quests – kill ten rats, pick up twelve pieces of junk. The only thing is that they’re a “mixture of all traditional MMO quests into one” and every heart is the same. Sure the theme behind them is different but the actions are unchanged.

However, like I said I don’t like content being removed. In order to make the world feel more fluid, these hearts should be turned into a series of events. One event per optional objective of each heart. Completion of the event(s) would result in the former heart NPC to become a karma vendor until the event(s) reset. They would also affect the NPCs’ dialogue just as other events typically do to related NPCs.

Doing this would result in the world feeling less static, and a better explanation for eventually altering the world. Either just one event could be removed, or when it’s a case of the ambient enemies related to the hearts get removed (say, risen in Lychcroft Mere), the enemies can be returning only for the event (periodical risen invasion of the swamp, per example) which becomes less frequent (longer timer) due to the smaller presence. This would allow future events to be added, without conflicting (much) with older content and without the need to completely remove the hearts content (or work around it).

In regards to map completion, I’m not sure how to replace hearts. Perhaps something akin to the event skill challenges where you have to complete specific player-triggered events (but don’t get skills) that vary more than just fight 1 enemy or fight a small group of 3-5 enemies.

The problem with your idea is that a lot of events would never get done. How many times have you run past an event without doing it? Probably a lot . What you would effectively be doing is making it harder for people to get armor skins or items they want particularly on low pop servers .

Konig Des Todes.2086:

ArenaNet, please remove the renown hearts from the game.

• They’re boring. They’re like traditional MMO quests – kill ten rats, pick up twelve pieces of junk. The only thing is that they’re a “mixture of all traditional MMO quests into one” and every heart is the same. Sure the theme behind them is different but the actions are unchanged.

ArenaNet, please don’t remove the renown hearts from the game.

I’m currently leveling my fourth character and I’m enjoying immensely that doing renown hearts has not yet felt repetitive to me, due to the varied forms of completing them.

I do, however, realize that for a seasoned MMO player, who’s perception of quests has been blunted into checklists of usual tasks, they may feel samey. Since there is enough other content to level up on, however, I don’t see why a mechanic enjoyable to some should be replaced on the whims of some others.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

However, like I said I don’t like content being removed. In order to make the world feel more fluid, these hearts should be turned into a series of events. One event per optional objective of each heart. Completion of the event(s) would result in the former heart NPC to become a karma vendor until the event(s) reset. They would also affect the NPCs’ dialogue just as other events typically do to related NPCs.

Doing this would result in the world feeling less static, and a better explanation for eventually altering the world. Either just one event could be removed, or when it’s a case of the ambient enemies related to the hearts get removed (say, risen in Lychcroft Mere), the enemies can be returning only for the event (periodical risen invasion of the swamp, per example) which becomes less frequent (longer timer) due to the smaller presence. This would allow future events to be added, without conflicting (much) with older content and without the need to completely remove the hearts content (or work around it).

In regards to map completion, I’m not sure how to replace hearts. Perhaps something akin to the event skill challenges where you have to complete specific player-triggered events (but don’t get skills) that vary more than just fight 1 enemy or fight a small group of 3-5 enemies.

There already are a lot of events that tie into heart completion. Turning hearts into events would just turn the minimap into an even smaller map, as the borders would be alight with event markers.

Now, if you would like to argue for ArenaNet to create a greater variety of and thus a longer reset interval for events tying into renown heart completion, I’d be with you.

never thought i’d see a Konig post i disagree with so much… i guess there’s a first time for everything.

removing the renown hearts would damage the game, in my opinion

Instead, the hearts could be replaced by other hearts as the world changes. But I would like them to be removed and replaced by DEs better, too.

Seeing as probably half the hearts can be completed by doing the events that spawn around them, I see no reason to remove them. I don’t find them repetitive at all, in fact I view them as a refreshing change from the normal MMO quest system. It’s not the end of the line for advancement in this field, but it’s a great first step for all fantasy MMOs. And something does change, that heart-NPC becomes a Karma Vendor (which is useful when finding someone to sell junk to!). Also, some of them help you along in your Charm/Dignity/Ferocity meters . . . there are things changing and things that make them worth keeping around.

I hate renown hearts. Absolutely despise them. I consider them one of the worst things about the game.

So I don’t do them. (Well, I did them once for map completion and now I ignore them.)

I don’t think they should be removed because, for reasons I could never truly understand, some people like them. And/or need them.

No thank you, if you don’t like them, simply don’t do them, just because you aren’t fond of them doesn’t warrant a removal. Other people enjoy doing them, also the game doesn’t cater to your every whim.

Hearts are pretty much THE thing i am doing in between random events, vistas, poi’s and skill challenges. The fact that the checklist of things to do is covered up by a progress bar is fine by me, at least i can cheat and skip all the boring and/or time consuming tasks it asks for.

Sometimes you’re doing an event, and you look at your heart and it’s already 80% full, or done. \o/

Hearts were a very good move from traditional MMOs, if you find them boring you’re probably just burnt out.

barefootstep.7026:

I do, however, realize that for a seasoned MMO player, who’s perception of quests has been blunted into checklists of usual tasks, they may feel samey. Since there is enough other content to level up on, however, I don’t see why a mechanic enjoyable to some should be replaced on the whims of some others.

[…]

There already are a lot of events that tie into heart completion. Turning hearts into events would just turn the minimap into an even smaller map, as the borders would be alight with event markers.

Now, if you would like to argue for ArenaNet to create a greater variety of and thus a longer reset interval for events tying into renown heart completion, I’d be with you.

The repetitious part is only a small part of the problem – and for the record, I seldom play MMOs (and when I do, they’re free to play and I play them for a month max).

To me, the greatest issue is that there’s no sense of accomplishment. The world is unchanged by completing the heart. You get told “good job, the problem’s gone/lessened” but there’s no change when you go there.

Events affecting hearts are irrelevant in the matter in my opinion, since they’re not the actual heart activities.

The hearts make the world feel static, unchanging, which is the complete opposite of what ArenaNet has stated they wanted with the game.

smekras.8203:

never thought i’d see a Konig post i disagree with so much… i guess there’s a first time for everything.

removing the renown hearts would damage the game, in my opinion

But being praised for doing something and being told that something made a change, when the open world held no affect to it – even temporary – is not damaging the perception of the game that ArenaNet had tried to build?

They want an evolving world, so having something that is completely static and ever-present – the heart system – is only counter-intuitive.

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

No thank you, if you don’t like them, simply don’t do them, just because you aren’t fond of them doesn’t warrant a removal. Other people enjoy doing them, also the game doesn’t cater to your every whim.

That’s been my stance on them since day one. That’s what I’ve been doing. Beyond map completion and leveling, I don’t do hearts because they break the flow of the game to me.

But with the living story, it feels like ArenaNet’s saying one thing, and is doing two completely separate things, which is just ruining the game in my view.

And my “every whim” has nothing to do with it. Amazing how insulting folks can be. ArenaNet has stated they want to make the game go a specific direction, and I’m just pointing out one of the things that is preventing that direction.

Tobbygnome.6793:

Hearts were a very good move from traditional MMOs, if you find them boring you’re probably just burnt out.

I agree they’re a good move from traditional MMOs. However I found them boring after the first couple zones in the game. So I’ve been burned out for over a year but kept playing the game with interest constantly?

Nonetheless, as I’ve said, while I do find them boring – and I’m far from the only one, I wouldn’t have made that point if many other people didn’t tell me they found the hearts boring too – I’m more making this suggestion because they’re static and thus prevent a living world.

Truth be told – how ArenaNet treats their ambient spawns (e.g., non-event spawns) are mostly the same as how the hearts are. Thing is those are easier to alter for future living story chapters.

If you think of Hearts as a big arrow saying events happen here, you’ll start feeling differently about them.

I heard once, no sources of course, that Hearts where added to give new players a clear path through zones and to higher levels. In Other MMOs you have quests for that. Quests lead you from one area to the next on the map, DEs don’t do that, they occur all over the region with different level spans.

Try to think about how lost a new player would be if he’s told that he levels by doing dynamic events that are split up everywhere and may not even be active.

The point of Hearts is to draw people to areas where events are occurring. Almost all hearts can be completed quickly and easily by doing nothing but the events that occur around them. Level appropriate hearts provide the single largest XP gain of all explorable/map completion content.

There is no reason to remove them. Also to say they’re static is silly. If an area has to change for the Living Story there is no reason why they can’t effect hearts and change what is needed to complete them.

Good suggestion! The zone that gave me the most wonder when I entered it was Straits of Devastation. It did so as it was the first zone where exploration was almost purely driven by the feelings of, well, exploration and not map completion. I’m not a big fan of map completion being an objective. It turns zones into theme parks where events go ignored just so players can get the goodies at the end of filling in various map markers. I’m at my happiest when I’m just exploring a zone and doing events when they pop up, listening to idle NPC chatter learning the story of the zone, and changing the world in that zone (albeit an unfortunately short and insignificant change most of the time).

I support getting rid of renown hearts, but would probably go further and remove skill point challenges as well. They are obstacles to having more long lasting changes to the zones as (at least those that involve NPCs) as the outposts/caves/etc that house the challenges can never change hands or be destoryed as the NPCs offering those challenges would have to go with them. Map completion with points of interest and vistas (or just revealing the map) should be enough to draw those players who need carrots to certain locations.

If dynamic events are the bread and butter of Guild Wars 2’s living world, then map completion should probably involve doing some number of dynamic events in a zone. Since dynamic events can change in a zone over time (or at least they were intended to change with time), it can’t be a checklist of all dynamic events.

Did you know that some events actually help you completing those heart quests?
There are some that you have to kill centaurs, and guess what, they are attacking a nearby camp. You do the event and get the heart

I think they are really good. I mean, it’s a change of pace – “do your stuff here the way you want and get rewarded”. Do I want to kill monsters now, or just pick up some medicine for those warriors? Or maybe just res the dead, clear some rocks outta the way, light torches?

This is what I understood from what you wrote: “I dislike chocolate, so stop making it”. Try making it better. You already started it badly with such title. Give an idea to improve the system.
“I don’t like killing monsters, or getting items, or lighting torches. I think that if I could do suggestion, it’d make the game more enjoyable”
See? You don’t have to remove what the others like, but you are making it even better for everyone

marnick.4305:

If you think of Hearts as a big arrow saying events happen here, you’ll start feeling differently about them.

Doesn’t change how completing them remains utterly the same as not completing them. And not all hearts have events happening there – plus, Orr does perfectly fine in directing events without hearts.

SirMoogie.9263:

Good suggestion! The zone that gave me the most wonder when I entered it was Straits of Devastation. It did so as it was the first zone where exploration was almost purely driven by the feelings of, well, exploration and not map completion.

I had not considered this. Kudos.

SirMoogie.9263:

I support getting rid of renown hearts, but would probably go further and remove skill point challenges as well. They are obstacles to having more long lasting changes to the zones as (at least those that involve NPCs) as the outposts/caves/etc that house the challenges can never change hands or be destoryed as the NPCs offering those challenges would have to go with them.

I’m iffy on this. While I get where you’re coming from there actually are some skill challenge NPCs which move due to their place being taken, or refuse to offer the challenge because of a nearby event. However, that’s just one of three kinds of skill challenges – communing skill challenges are already an intrigal part of the Quartz Crystals mechanic, and are rather good in of themselves. The item-generated horde event gives some good lore – most being more than standard dynamic events – as well. Plus, they don’t feel as static as hearts because you can easily move an object or NPC, and there’d be no need to move a communing skill challenge unless the land itself changes. The only change I’d make is how the icon is always shown on the map, even if you’ve never been to the zone.

HELLruler.4820:

Did you know that some events actually help you completing those heart quests?

Yes, and like others, you don’t seem to get my point…

I think they are really good. I mean, it’s a change of pace – “do your stuff here the way you want and get rewarded”. Do I want to kill monsters now, or just pick up some medicine for those warriors? Or maybe just res the dead, clear some rocks outta the way, light torches?

HELLruler.4820:

This is what I understood from what you wrote: “I dislike chocolate, so stop making it”. Try making it better. You already started it badly with such title. Give an idea to improve the system.

THAT IS NOT WHAT I WAS SAYING

Why is it everyone’s believing that. You all are focusing on a single – just one of three – points I raised, and bashing down the idea just because of that.

What is more important is how static the hearts are in the game which ArenaNet wants to be ever changing. They are counter-intuitive to ArenaNet’s stated goals from day one.

HELLruler.4820:

“I don’t like killing monsters, or getting items, or lighting torches. I think that if I could do suggestion, it’d make the game more enjoyable”
See? You don’t have to remove what the others like, but you are making it even better for everyone

I do not want to remove the activities. If you read my post in full, you’d know this well. I want the activities of the hearts kept but given to us in a different form so that they’re more fluid with the rest of the game – so that they are no longer static, ever present, even after completion. So that the game feels more like a “living, breathing world” that ArenaNet wants to create.

You revive some people, light some torches. Just to, less than a couple minutes later, die (out) again. Even if you’ve gone and completed the heart, the problem remains, even though you get a letter saying “Good job! The problem is no longer a problem/not as big of a problem anymore! Thank you!”

What’s the point of doing stuff if it has no affect on the world? That’s the main issue with events – they reset too quickly. Create more events, expand the reset timer for the events, have events block each other, and get rid of the static never-changing aspects of the game. Do this little by little and ArenaNet will have their desired “living, breathing world.” Hearts are preventing this currently, and they’ll only prove to be an obstacle in the future.

My own personal views on them are irrelevant. Being able to complete them with events is irrelevant because it’s not the act of completing that’s the issue, but the fact of nothing changing despite completing.

I would think that you could have chosen a different way to word and order your original post, then. I’ll be honest, I see the point you’re making. However, every game needs something that is static and you can fall back on. What if you’re on a low-pop server during non-peak hours and there were no hearts, but a bunch of events? And because of RNG and the number of events added, you needed about four people to complete said event successfully? You’d be stuck in a zone unable to do anything until you watched all the events fail and generate new ones. Having static quest-mechanics is important.

Could they alter the overall system a little? Sure. Also you may not be considering a couple of other things: ¹ The nature of some of the hearts. There are hearts that require you to feed animals and check traps, that kind of stuff has to happen. You can’t feed a cow in Queensdale today and it not be hungry again tomorrow. ² Doubling back to help friends. My fiance is about 15-20 levels behind me as she started after me and has less time to play. I like being able to still see some of the aspects of the hearts (like the traps I checked and the wurm holes I stomped) in order to jump in and help her out. If I cleared all the spiders from an apple grove and then I could see said spiders later, I would be unable to help her. This kind of quest phasing is what made things difficult for players in World of Warcraft to double back and help a friend.

It’s an all around decent idea, but there are more implications than just the changing world they’re trying to create. I think we need the static quests, just make them all quests that bare repeating due to their nature, and don’t phase them out to me once I’ve completed them.

Right now Renown Hearts are the only thing that gives towns meaning. I would rather Add more to the RH system.

*Endless Quests (Ex. lost and found, Kidnapping, investigation, randomly generated DE’s)
*Randomly generated Instances quests
*cutscene in towns
*add more lore too towns

The heart icon also does not make since in some areas. Icon should be a something more like a Skull and Crossbones.

Onshidesigns.1069:

The heart icon also does not make since in some areas. Icon should be a something more like a Skull and Crossbones.

Nah, it needs to be consistent so you know what you’re looking for. While many players would be able to figure it out or pay attention and take note, there are plenty that would be confused by the different symbols.

LeeroyNimoy.1864:

Onshidesigns.1069:

The heart icon also does not make since in some areas. Icon should be a something more like a Skull and Crossbones.

Nah, it needs to be consistent so you know what you’re looking for. While many players would be able to figure it out or pay attention and take note, there are plenty that would be confused by the different symbols.

They will lean. Besides Anet adds new icons all the time in events.

Events, we knew from the start of the game, would be growing and changing. These things are not expected to be different, and as long as you show up and kill things in the big orange circle you’re mostly okay there, lol. The heart quests should be a constant for those that need consistency.

Hearts are too cute and kiddy to use in some areas. A compromise would be to use a broken heart symbol or a bleeding Heart symbol in those areas.

This game is too cheerful even in some lower level areas.

Onshidesigns.1069:

Hearts are too cute and kiddy to use in some areas. A compromise would be to use a broken heart symbol or a bleeding Heart symbol in those areas.

This game is too cheerful even in some lower level areas.

I find the game to be pretty well balanced in the terms of cute and not cute. There isn’t much dark and brooding and horror, but I don’t think that’s the vibe they’re going for, really.