Guild Wars 2

If a-net is going to add all these various new ascended armors (eventually) and weapons that we’ll need, then they need to take transmutation crystals off the gem store. It’s unfair that after being told our armor and weapons will be something that we never replace, we were then given new ones to replace the old with. End game is supposed to be about cosmetics, and now even that is being done away with due to harsh use of crystals coupled with ascended gear making the old exotic skins a moot point.

Make the gems something you buy in game for a sane price.

lol, I hope this isn’t serious. o.O

Rcox.4076:

lol, I hope this isn’t serious. o.O

Why isnt it? Crystal prices rise higher and higher constantly with gem exchange prices.

Players were told no loot treadmill, so there was reason enough to buy these expensive crystals and apply the looks you wanted to your gear.

Now we have a loot treadmill and gear to replace. Some people will need a rather large number of crystals to maintain the look they had been told they could keep without issue. I myself for instance will be needing around 25 or so if I want to maintain looks on my Warrior, Thief, and Ranger (weapons that is. Armor is 3-6 per set of armor, depending on what you hide).

And yes, unless they make many current exotic skins (dungeon for instance), skins (as in you double click to add them to armor), then the cosmetic aspect of GW2 suffers in that you won’t be able to wear the armor and weapons from dungeons due to their lowered state total compared to ascended. You’ll need to buy a crystal to apply them.

If you mean, remove them from the gemstore and make them easier to obtain then I agree 100001 %

If you mean, remove them entirely, then I couldn’t disagree more.

You’re not forced to transmutate the look of any armour/weapons are you, you just WANT to change them.
You also don’t pay a monthly sub fee, so by all means, spend $10 and buy a bunch of crystals and support the game you play so much!

Rcox.4076:

You’re not forced to transmutate the look of any armour/weapons are you, you just WANT to change them.
You also don’t pay a monthly sub fee, so by all means, spend $10 and buy a bunch of crystals and support the game you play so much!

This is far more about how we were told there’d be no gear treadmill, and that the endgame was cosmetics.

This spits in the eye of both of those claims.

Rcox.4076:

You’re not forced to transmutate the look of any armour/weapons are you, you just WANT to change them.
You also don’t pay a monthly sub fee, so by all means, spend $10 and buy a bunch of crystals and support the game you play so much!

Not the “you aren’t forced to..” argument again..

Guess what, it’s a video game. NOTHING here is required/forced/needed. Everything is optional, that doesn’t mean that any criticism should be tossed out the window.

Because of this gear threadmill, I have to transmute ALL the gear on my alts, which sucks a lot. (And no, I don’t HAVE to do it as in “the universe explodes if I don’t” )

@ Windu & Namica, that’s utter nonsense though. Believe me I’m all on-board for cheaper and easier ways to use transmog crystals. (see WoW’s use of it, its really great fun and cheap and easy to use over on that game and one of the few things I think GW2 should emulate). However this perception of “have too” I have an issue with.

Their isn’t a gear treadmill, you have 1 new tier of gear in a year and in addition to that, it’s like a collective 3% gain in stats. Something which can still be massively offset by individual player skill, so you don’t even need the new gear.

Groups don’t really min/max and theirs no DPS charts. Running about in exotics will continue to be totally acceptable and the only reason to get this gear is something to do and a slight DPS boost.

The new gear simply gives a minor boost to an individual who wants to do something to kill time. The moaning about this is just idiotic.

If you don’t want the new gear, don’t make it. I imagine many won’t and those who don’t wont notice a massive disparity between those who do.

No one however should ever argue that transmog is anything other than complete and total vanity and as such OPTIONAL. By no means can it be taken to be a must. If you want to look a certain way, you pay for it. Anet warned us a full set of ascended armour/weapons were coming over the next 18 months. They warned us of it about 8 months ago.

If you’ve transmogged since then, you should stop crying about it and read the actual site, if you haven’t transmogged in the last 8 months, then the feature isn’t something you use often anyway and again you should probably quit with the QQ, as paying to use a feature once a year seems fine to me.

So which is it? Are you complaining about not reading the site properly or are you complaining about a feature you rarely even use?

I will say that I personally feel transmog should have been an ingame service, paid to npc’s in the same way of repairs and the like, as I think personalisation of this manner shouldn’t have a gem cost, but I still in no way see it as a MUST.

I’ll go tell people they can stop wearing exotics and just use rares since gear means so little.

The game was sold based on no gear treadmill and end game being cosmetics. Now that a-net is putting in a great treadmill, suddenly people are defending this LIE as an ok thing. Not to mention they are adding a weapon to an offensive PvP meta, with no defense to go with it. Further imbalance in WvWvW. How fun.

A-net went back on promises and they’re being exalted for it. This thread is about a very small request for something that helps ease the original intent of cosmetics. And its being treated like I’m taking a-net out back and beating them with bat covered in rusty nails.

Salome.5329:

-snip-

They announced their gear threadmill after I bought the game (about 4 months in), just saying. So that “read the site properly” argument is invalid.

About everything else, I think you would have made a pretty fair argument if only you wouldn’t call our criticism Moaning, Idiotic, Crying and QQ

But I can understand how difficult it must be to encounter people with a different opinion.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Salome.5329:

-snip-

They announced their gear threadmill after I bought the game (about 4 months in), just saying. So that “read the site properly” argument is invalid.

About everything else, I think you would have made a pretty fair argument if only you wouldn’t call our criticism Moaning, Idiotic, Crying and QQ

But I can understand how difficult it must be to encounter people with a different opinion.

Yeah, there was no treadmill till ascended which was added months after release.

The game was SOLD on the promise of no treadmill. Now we are being given a second treadmill with weapons, and another on its way with armor.

You know how many gear treadmills GW1 had? Zero.

I don’t think the transmutation stones themselves are the issue. The real issue is the cost of gems for in-game gold, at least as far as I’m concerned.

After the Gauntlet and Chaos arcs, and re-release of some awesome stuff in the gem store, gem prices have skyrocketed. Because ANet continues to release new items that people want in the gem store at very short intervals, the gem price hasn’t really had a chance to settle and/or decrease.

Unfortunately, it also isn’t in ANet’s best interest to do anything to reduce gem prices from a business standpoint, because the more gems cost in gold, the more tempted people will be to spend real money. I don’t intend this to be critical, as I really can’t blame ANet for maintaining the demand for gems. Just stating the situation as I see it.

The major benefit of the soaring gem prices is that hopefully the gem store is draining a large chunk of the excess gold that’s floating around the game.

OMG, it’s not a treadmill. A gear treadmill means that you start with Gear X. You need to be fully done up in Gear X before you can even compete in content to get Gear Y. You need to keep at it until you fully done in Gear Y in order to have a chance at Gear Z. See that? You keep progressing forward using old gear to obtain new gear. That’s the treadmill.

You don’t have that here. You can just make the gear. You’ll get the mats from a variety of places, some of this don’t even involve content. You can do it in level 1 white armor and weapons and instantly jump to level 80 Ascended without ever being in a fight. That’s not a treadmill.

As for rares. Until recently I was running around primarily in sub 80 greens, I even had a blue. I was waiting until I could make my own exotics. Do you know what difference I saw in my gameplay when I jumped, in a single move, to full level 80 exotics? None, not a single bit of difference. The actual difference in stats between qualities is so insignificant as to have no legitimate effect on gameplay.

So no, you don’t need ascended anything. If you want it, then get it. If you think you need it and you also need your current appearance intact, then too bad, you have to pay for that.

Kal Spiro.9745:

OMG, it’s not a treadmill. A gear treadmill means that you start with Gear X. You need to be fully done up in Gear X before you can even compete in content to get Gear Y. You need to keep at it until you fully done in Gear Y in order to have a chance at Gear Z. See that? You keep progressing forward using old gear to obtain new gear. That’s the treadmill.

You don’t have that here. You can just make the gear. You’ll get the mats from a variety of places, some of this don’t even involve content. You can do it in level 1 white armor and weapons and instantly jump to level 80 Ascended without ever being in a fight. That’s not a treadmill.

As for rares. Until recently I was running around primarily in sub 80 greens, I even had a blue. I was waiting until I could make my own exotics. Do you know what difference I saw in my gameplay when I jumped, in a single move, to full level 80 exotics? None, not a single bit of difference. The actual difference in stats between qualities is so insignificant as to have no legitimate effect on gameplay.

So no, you don’t need ascended anything. If you want it, then get it. If you think you need it and you also need your current appearance intact, then too bad, you have to pay for that.

I like how you are changing the meaning of things to suit your own needs.

Gear treadmill is increasing effectiveness of newer gears that are better than those before them.

Namica.2951:

Kal Spiro.9745:

OMG, it’s not a treadmill. A gear treadmill means that you start with Gear X. You need to be fully done up in Gear X before you can even compete in content to get Gear Y. You need to keep at it until you fully done in Gear Y in order to have a chance at Gear Z. See that? You keep progressing forward using old gear to obtain new gear. That’s the treadmill.

You don’t have that here. You can just make the gear. You’ll get the mats from a variety of places, some of this don’t even involve content. You can do it in level 1 white armor and weapons and instantly jump to level 80 Ascended without ever being in a fight. That’s not a treadmill.

As for rares. Until recently I was running around primarily in sub 80 greens, I even had a blue. I was waiting until I could make my own exotics. Do you know what difference I saw in my gameplay when I jumped, in a single move, to full level 80 exotics? None, not a single bit of difference. The actual difference in stats between qualities is so insignificant as to have no legitimate effect on gameplay.

So no, you don’t need ascended anything. If you want it, then get it. If you think you need it and you also need your current appearance intact, then too bad, you have to pay for that.

I like how you are changing the meaning of things to suit your own needs.

Gear treadmill is increasing effectiveness of newer gears that are better than those before them.

You obviously have not been playing MMOs long enough if that watered down excuse for a definition is the one you use. There is a reason it’s called a treadmill, because you actually have to work at it. It doesn’t just get handed to you. It’s a pain and it’s boring and it just keeps going. This isn’t a treadmill. When you can just make it from nothing, with nothing, it’s not a treadmill, it’s just better gear. Better gear you don’t even actually need to compete.

One additional tier is not really a gear treadmill, nor is content gated by said gear. Fractals are only gated at higher tiers, far beyond what you need to see and experience everything they have.

So to say we now have a gear treadmill is incorrect. If we get ascended 2.0, then it is a different story.

Kal, you are hitting the nail on the head.

There is no gear treadmill here. You CRAFT the new ascended gear…. I mean.. holy crap. You craft blues, greens, yellows, and orange/gold right now. THIS IS NOT DIFFERENT.

You don’t even need the Ascended gear to play the game. I have 5 toons and each only wear one piece of Ascended gear and it’s not for Agony Resistance. I’m fine and dandy playing EVERY piece of content in the game this way as well.

As Kal said, the gear treadmill is when you NEED the gear to play the content and thus must GRIND to get that gear. Far from the case in this game.

For the Fractal people, if you’re grinding to get Agony and Ascended for Fractals.. that’s your choice. You don’t need to do it.

Players nowadays have grown lazy and don’t want to work towards anything.
There’s a difference between being casual and being a lazy, spoiled brat who wants everything handed down to them on a silver platter.

By reading the complaints on this and other threads, you can see which one they represent.

Delvoire.8930:

For the Fractal people, if you’re grinding to get Agony and Ascended for Fractals.. that’s your choice. You don’t need to do it.

I was with you up to here. Fractals is actually the deviation from the treadmill policy. But you’re still right, of course. Fractals were a concession to the people who actually want this. It was originally an experiment, but it was a successful one. It gave the people who wanted a treadmill, despite it being against the foundations of the game, a way to experience that, without interfering with anyone else.

So if you’re doing this because of Fractals you’re doing it because that’s what you actually want to do and enjoy. So you still have no place to complain.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Delvoire.8930:

For the Fractal people, if you’re grinding to get Agony and Ascended for Fractals.. that’s your choice. You don’t need to do it.

I was with you up to here. Fractals is actually the deviation from the treadmill policy. But you’re still right, of course. Fractals were a concession to the people who actually want this. It was originally an experiment, but it was a successful one. It gave the people who wanted a treadmill, despite it being against the foundations of the game, a way to experience that, without interfering with anyone else.

So if you’re doing this because of Fractals you’re doing it because that’s what you actually want to do and enjoy. So you still have no place to complain.

That’s what I meant. You put it more delicately though. Thank You

Let’s put the gold to exchange ratio in 5g for 100gems (it was around 4 last time I checked), 5 transmutation crystals are 200 gems, so you’re basically paying 2g for each one (or 1.6 if you buy 800 gems and buy 25 crystals).

If tomorrow they were to delete the crystals from the store and add a vendor that offers them for 2g… what would be the difference? Or you just want a cheaper way to obtain them?

locoman.1974:

Let’s put the gold to exchange ratio in 5g for 100gems (it was around 4 last time I checked), 5 transmutation crystals are 200 gems, so you’re basically paying 2g for each one (or 1.6 if you buy 800 gems and buy 25 crystals).

If tomorrow they were to delete the crystals from the store and add a vendor that offers them for 2g… what would be the difference? Or you just want a cheaper way to obtain them?

If you look at other high end items like this, though, they would probably be 5 silver per in an ingame vendor situation. So I think it’s the latter.

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Players nowadays have grown lazy and don’t want to work towards anything.
There’s a difference between being casual and being a lazy, spoiled brat who wants everything handed down to them on a silver platter.

By reading the complaints on this and other threads, you can see which one they represent.

There is also hoping devs would stick to their originally stated promises. They lied. Simple as that.

Color this how you want, change meanings where you want, twist words all over the place. A-net said no gear treadmill. We are now being given gear that is better than what we can currently get. That is the definition of treadmills. All the “other” definitions given in this thread, when applied to other games, make it seem that there isn’t one in any MMO ever.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Delvoire.8930:

For the Fractal people, if you’re grinding to get Agony and Ascended for Fractals.. that’s your choice. You don’t need to do it.

I was with you up to here. Fractals is actually the deviation from the treadmill policy. But you’re still right, of course. Fractals were a concession to the people who actually want this. It was originally an experiment, but it was a successful one. It gave the people who wanted a treadmill, despite it being against the foundations of the game, a way to experience that, without interfering with anyone else.

So if you’re doing this because of Fractals you’re doing it because that’s what you actually want to do and enjoy. So you still have no place to complain.

It also had the effect of causing WvWvW becoming part of the Fractal Treadmill. Ascended should only have fractal resists on them if thats the point. The way ascended is implemented though, they become a NEEDED function for WvWvW, and something that you will always feel you need for PvE since you KNOW you’re not doing as well as you could be if you’re not using ascended.

I love reading these forums they are always good for a laugh, the op comes here complaining about the old bait and switch and people start calling them entitled (the current go to buzzword of many game forums it seems) and proceeding to tell them what content in the game they don’t have to play.

This game was advertized as having horizontal progression in end game gear ie: skins instead of the same old same old vertical which they went and changed by adding content that while optional just like playing the game at all is does require a higher level of gear creating vertical progression.

Myself I’ve got no problem with buying some transmutation stones and reskining my gear gives me something to spend money on to support the game without having to support the rng boxes so many of these forums seem to just love hehe. But the op complaining about bait and switch tactics is not entitled and who are any of us to tell other player what content they do or don’t have to play

Just another tier of gear isn’t a treadmill. It is totally easy to get ascended gear… Don’t talk about GW1, this one was ridiculous gear-wise.

Namica.2951:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Delvoire.8930:

For the Fractal people, if you’re grinding to get Agony and Ascended for Fractals.. that’s your choice. You don’t need to do it.

I was with you up to here. Fractals is actually the deviation from the treadmill policy. But you’re still right, of course. Fractals were a concession to the people who actually want this. It was originally an experiment, but it was a successful one. It gave the people who wanted a treadmill, despite it being against the foundations of the game, a way to experience that, without interfering with anyone else.

So if you’re doing this because of Fractals you’re doing it because that’s what you actually want to do and enjoy. So you still have no place to complain.

It also had the effect of causing WvWvW becoming part of the Fractal Treadmill. Ascended should only have fractal resists on them if thats the point. The way ascended is implemented though, they become a NEEDED function for WvWvW, and something that you will always feel you need for PvE since you KNOW you’re not doing as well as you could be if you’re not using ascended.

They implemented the Ascended gear in WvWvW itself to help those players who were against having to do fractals for them. You can buy them with Badges in the WvWvW zone. They also added the Ascended gear via laurels and guild tokens.

Really the only grind is to get the Agony infusions and that you only need for the Fractal itself.

I’ll agree that adding that Ascended tear over Exotic can be rather frustrating for the player base. I’m personally like it. It was that missing piece IMO. Now instead of grinding out for 7 months or so to get a Legendary weapon, I can now craft an Ascended weapon that will be equal in stats but just not be as fancy looking or have cool effects. I like that.

Kal Spiro.9745:

locoman.1974:

Let’s put the gold to exchange ratio in 5g for 100gems (it was around 4 last time I checked), 5 transmutation crystals are 200 gems, so you’re basically paying 2g for each one (or 1.6 if you buy 800 gems and buy 25 crystals).

If tomorrow they were to delete the crystals from the store and add a vendor that offers them for 2g… what would be the difference? Or you just want a cheaper way to obtain them?

If you look at other high end items like this, though, they would probably be 5 silver per in an ingame vendor situation. So I think it’s the latter.

Any example? Just wondering since the only end-game item I’d really compare with a transmutation crystal are the skin rewards, which are usually priced at 5 to 10g + tokens.

ProtoGunner.4953:

Just another tier of gear isn’t a treadmill. It is totally easy to get ascended gear… Don’t talk about GW1, this one was ridiculous gear-wise.

GW1 was rediculous gear wise? I had the best gear I could get the moment I hit max level in GW1 and never had to replace it.

And yes, another tier of gear IS a treadmill. Thats pretty much the definition.

Namica.2951:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Delvoire.8930:

For the Fractal people, if you’re grinding to get Agony and Ascended for Fractals.. that’s your choice. You don’t need to do it.

I was with you up to here. Fractals is actually the deviation from the treadmill policy. But you’re still right, of course. Fractals were a concession to the people who actually want this. It was originally an experiment, but it was a successful one. It gave the people who wanted a treadmill, despite it being against the foundations of the game, a way to experience that, without interfering with anyone else.

So if you’re doing this because of Fractals you’re doing it because that’s what you actually want to do and enjoy. So you still have no place to complain.

It also had the effect of causing WvWvW becoming part of the Fractal Treadmill. Ascended should only have fractal resists on them if thats the point. The way ascended is implemented though, they become a NEEDED function for WvWvW, and something that you will always feel you need for PvE since you KNOW you’re not doing as well as you could be if you’re not using ascended.

No they don’t, you’re over stating the actual importance of a small stat boost.

locoman.1974:

Kal Spiro.9745:

locoman.1974:

Let’s put the gold to exchange ratio in 5g for 100gems (it was around 4 last time I checked), 5 transmutation crystals are 200 gems, so you’re basically paying 2g for each one (or 1.6 if you buy 800 gems and buy 25 crystals).

If tomorrow they were to delete the crystals from the store and add a vendor that offers them for 2g… what would be the difference? Or you just want a cheaper way to obtain them?

If you look at other high end items like this, though, they would probably be 5 silver per in an ingame vendor situation. So I think it’s the latter.

Any example? Just wondering since the only end-game item I’d really compare with a transmutation crystal are the skin rewards, which are usually priced at 5 to 10g + tokens.

Master Salvage Kit would be the best. It’s a high end consumable designed to get high end mats and rune/sigils out of gear. It’s under 2 gold for 25 uses.

Transmutation Crystals aren’t skins, they’re just a way to get high end stats onto the skin you want as long as you already have both pieces.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Namica.2951:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Delvoire.8930:

For the Fractal people, if you’re grinding to get Agony and Ascended for Fractals.. that’s your choice. You don’t need to do it.

I was with you up to here. Fractals is actually the deviation from the treadmill policy. But you’re still right, of course. Fractals were a concession to the people who actually want this. It was originally an experiment, but it was a successful one. It gave the people who wanted a treadmill, despite it being against the foundations of the game, a way to experience that, without interfering with anyone else.

So if you’re doing this because of Fractals you’re doing it because that’s what you actually want to do and enjoy. So you still have no place to complain.

It also had the effect of causing WvWvW becoming part of the Fractal Treadmill. Ascended should only have fractal resists on them if thats the point. The way ascended is implemented though, they become a NEEDED function for WvWvW, and something that you will always feel you need for PvE since you KNOW you’re not doing as well as you could be if you’re not using ascended.

No they don’t, you’re over stating the actual importance of a small stat boost.

Ever gone from rare to exotic weapon? The difference is immediatly noticable due to the weapon damage difference.

Difference between, say rings, amulets and trinkets is rather small because it’s only a small stat increase. But the weapons have the same stat increase + weapon damage. And that makes all the difference.

Namica.2951:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Namica.2951:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Delvoire.8930:

For the Fractal people, if you’re grinding to get Agony and Ascended for Fractals.. that’s your choice. You don’t need to do it.

I was with you up to here. Fractals is actually the deviation from the treadmill policy. But you’re still right, of course. Fractals were a concession to the people who actually want this. It was originally an experiment, but it was a successful one. It gave the people who wanted a treadmill, despite it being against the foundations of the game, a way to experience that, without interfering with anyone else.

So if you’re doing this because of Fractals you’re doing it because that’s what you actually want to do and enjoy. So you still have no place to complain.

It also had the effect of causing WvWvW becoming part of the Fractal Treadmill. Ascended should only have fractal resists on them if thats the point. The way ascended is implemented though, they become a NEEDED function for WvWvW, and something that you will always feel you need for PvE since you KNOW you’re not doing as well as you could be if you’re not using ascended.

No they don’t, you’re over stating the actual importance of a small stat boost.

Ever gone from rare to exotic weapon? The difference is immediatly noticable due to the weapon damage difference.

Difference between, say rings, amulets and trinkets is rather small because it’s only a small stat increase. But the weapons have the same stat increase + weapon damage. And that makes all the difference.

I’ve already pointed out my experience with upgrading. The difference is completely negligible and in no way noticeable. It makes no difference at all. You’re making mountains out of imaginary bumps.

Kal Spiro.9745:

locoman.1974:

Kal Spiro.9745:

locoman.1974:

Let’s put the gold to exchange ratio in 5g for 100gems (it was around 4 last time I checked), 5 transmutation crystals are 200 gems, so you’re basically paying 2g for each one (or 1.6 if you buy 800 gems and buy 25 crystals).

If tomorrow they were to delete the crystals from the store and add a vendor that offers them for 2g… what would be the difference? Or you just want a cheaper way to obtain them?

If you look at other high end items like this, though, they would probably be 5 silver per in an ingame vendor situation. So I think it’s the latter.

Any example? Just wondering since the only end-game item I’d really compare with a transmutation crystal are the skin rewards, which are usually priced at 5 to 10g + tokens.

Master Salvage Kit would be the best. It’s a high end consumable designed to get high end mats and rune/sigils out of gear. It’s under 2 gold for 25 uses.

Transmutation Crystals aren’t skins, they’re just a way to get high end stats onto the skin you want as long as you already have both pieces.

I don’t think the salvage kits are a good comparison to transmutation crystals. A salvage kit is something you’re supposed to be buying and using all the time as you play, while a tranmutation crystal is something rarely used and usually meant to be used only once on a piece of gear you’re going to keep using for a long time, which is why I feel that skins prices are a better comparison, but of course YMMV.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Namica.2951:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Namica.2951:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Delvoire.8930:

For the Fractal people, if you’re grinding to get Agony and Ascended for Fractals.. that’s your choice. You don’t need to do it.

I was with you up to here. Fractals is actually the deviation from the treadmill policy. But you’re still right, of course. Fractals were a concession to the people who actually want this. It was originally an experiment, but it was a successful one. It gave the people who wanted a treadmill, despite it being against the foundations of the game, a way to experience that, without interfering with anyone else.

So if you’re doing this because of Fractals you’re doing it because that’s what you actually want to do and enjoy. So you still have no place to complain.

It also had the effect of causing WvWvW becoming part of the Fractal Treadmill. Ascended should only have fractal resists on them if thats the point. The way ascended is implemented though, they become a NEEDED function for WvWvW, and something that you will always feel you need for PvE since you KNOW you’re not doing as well as you could be if you’re not using ascended.

No they don’t, you’re over stating the actual importance of a small stat boost.

Ever gone from rare to exotic weapon? The difference is immediatly noticable due to the weapon damage difference.

Difference between, say rings, amulets and trinkets is rather small because it’s only a small stat increase. But the weapons have the same stat increase + weapon damage. And that makes all the difference.

I’ve already pointed out my experience with upgrading. The difference is completely negligible and in no way noticeable. It makes no difference at all. You’re making mountains out of imaginary bumps.

And I think you’re knowingly playing ignorant.

I understand your complaint, and the point you are trying to make. But you are muddying it up with an unreasonable request. Maybe you shouldve stuck to the point.

Which is that people used Fine Transmutation Stones, which are almost exclusively gem bought (I certainly never got a Fine Stone from anything but the gemstore) to change the look on their gear. People did this believing that this gear would last them “forever”. Okay to drop a few $ on getting cool looking gear if that gear will last you, right?

But now that everything is switching over to Ascended this gear will in time be replaced. And if they want to adopt the similar look they have to spend gems again just to keep the same look you might very well have already payed for once.

Basicly ANet is selling you the same skins twice.

I remember that it was said a long time ago that legendary weapons would have their stats upgraded when a new tier of equipment was released.

Some months ago, they reminded us that ascended weapons and armor would be introduced this year.

We knew that there would be another tier. We always knew.

Some people saved their crystals and skins for when it happened, some didn’t. I know I did.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Namica.2951:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Namica.2951:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Delvoire.8930:

For the Fractal people, if you’re grinding to get Agony and Ascended for Fractals.. that’s your choice. You don’t need to do it.

I was with you up to here. Fractals is actually the deviation from the treadmill policy. But you’re still right, of course. Fractals were a concession to the people who actually want this. It was originally an experiment, but it was a successful one. It gave the people who wanted a treadmill, despite it being against the foundations of the game, a way to experience that, without interfering with anyone else.

So if you’re doing this because of Fractals you’re doing it because that’s what you actually want to do and enjoy. So you still have no place to complain.

It also had the effect of causing WvWvW becoming part of the Fractal Treadmill. Ascended should only have fractal resists on them if thats the point. The way ascended is implemented though, they become a NEEDED function for WvWvW, and something that you will always feel you need for PvE since you KNOW you’re not doing as well as you could be if you’re not using ascended.

No they don’t, you’re over stating the actual importance of a small stat boost.

Ever gone from rare to exotic weapon? The difference is immediatly noticable due to the weapon damage difference.

Difference between, say rings, amulets and trinkets is rather small because it’s only a small stat increase. But the weapons have the same stat increase + weapon damage. And that makes all the difference.

I’ve already pointed out my experience with upgrading. The difference is completely negligible and in no way noticeable. It makes no difference at all. You’re making mountains out of imaginary bumps.

Yeah I am sorry Kal, I have to disagree with you about the difference not being noticeable. While small stat differences between tiers are more difficult to perceive there is a very noticeable impact in performance when it comes to weapon strength because it is a straight damage increase not a damage modifier that is applied multiplicatively. If what you were saying was true then there would be no reason to ever go beyond using white gear and as we all know there is a huge difference in white gear to exotic. Now will not having ascended weapons put you at such a disadvantage that you can’t complete content? Probably not because, everything is more or less balanced around having rare type weapons, armor, and trinkets already anyway. In WvW it has the potential to increase your odds of winning, however it’s not a guaranteed win of course because player skill and build matchup will still far outstrip gear in a rock paper scissors game.

Gabby.3205:

I remember that it was said a long time ago that legendary weapons would have their stats upgraded when a new tier of equipment was released.

Some months ago, they reminded us that ascended weapons and armor would be introduced this year.

We knew that there would be another tier. We always knew.

Some people saved their crystals and skins for when it happened, some didn’t. I know I did.

Just so as you know some people did have their “top tier” exotic armor skinned before there was a fractals of the mist or ascended tier of items even mentioned, so yes we always knew but not till after some already had what was thought to be the best already skinned the way they wanted it

Terrahero.9358:

I understand your complaint, and the point you are trying to make. But you are muddying it up with an unreasonable request. Maybe you shouldve stuck to the point.

Which is that people used Fine Transmutation Stones, which are almost exclusively gem bought (I certainly never got a Fine Stone from anything but the gemstore) to change the look on their gear. People did this believing that this gear would last them “forever”. Okay to drop a few $ on getting cool looking gear if that gear will last you, right?

But now that everything is switching over to Ascended this gear will in time be replaced. And if they want to adopt the similar look they have to spend gems again just to keep the same look you might very well have already payed for once.

Basicly ANet is selling you the same skins twice.

Thats actually a much better argument. That they are selling the same skin twice after a broken promise.

Gabby.3205:

I remember that it was said a long time ago that legendary weapons would have their stats upgraded when a new tier of equipment was released.

Some months ago, they reminded us that ascended weapons and armor would be introduced this year.

We knew that there would be another tier. We always knew.

Some people saved their crystals and skins for when it happened, some didn’t. I know I did.

No, we KNEW that we would be getting a treadmill AFTER they introduced the first one. At first they said there would never be something like this, and then implemented the exact thing they said they wouldn’t.

I apologize for not knowing what they would say in the future.

The state of the game thing was also two months ago I believe. Still rather new.

Namica.2951:

If a-net is going to add all these various new ascended armors (eventually) and weapons that we’ll need, then they need to take transmutation crystals off the gem store. It’s unfair that after being told our armor and weapons will be something that we never replace, we were then given new ones to replace the old with. End game is supposed to be about cosmetics, and now even that is being done away with due to harsh use of crystals coupled with ascended gear making the old exotic skins a moot point.

Make the gems something you buy in game for a sane price.

Could ArenaNet perhaps give more stones via normal gameplay? Maybe. Maybe quite a lot of people besides yourself feel they don’t receive enough through normal gameplay and they feel pressured to buy from the gem store.

If they could be sold on the TP, the price of them would probably end up so that sellers barely made a profit from flipping them. As it stands, you’re welcome to exchange gold for gems in order to buy transmutation stones.

They could be purchased via Laurels and that might not throw things out of balance while still making it easier for people to truly earn them but without spending money (beyond those awarded via normal gameplay, that is).

They definitely should not be purchasable with Karma, as we’re already practically drowning in the stuff.

Namica.2951:

No, we KNEW that we would be getting a treadmill AFTER they introduced the first one. At first they said there would never be something like this, and then implemented the exact thing they said they wouldn’t.

I apologize for not knowing what they would say in the future.

The state of the game thing was also two months ago I believe. Still rather new.

About 10 months ago, maybe more, they said that the legendary weapons would have their stats updated when another tier of equipment was introduced. “After the first treadmill”, sure, but a long, LONG time ago.

I can’t think of a way of interpreting that information other than “there will be more tiers of weapons introduced in the future”.

So yes, we knew it was going to happen since about 2 months after launch. Again, some of us knew we had to be prepared for it. Others ignored the information completely.

Also: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside/first#post721451

Remember this? It still stands.
One new tier was introduced. One. And 10 months after the ascended trinkets were introduced, the ascended weapons are coming. If 10 months were not enough to prepare, well…

Namica.2951:

This is far more about how we were told there’d be no gear treadmill, and that the endgame was cosmetics.

This spits in the eye of both of those claims.

kitten many others have stated, there isn’t a gear treadmill in this game. The only gear you would need to work for is ascended and legendary, but when you’ve got it, you’re done; there is no more work to be done. The gear in this game cannot be refined, or improved, in any way aside from changing sigils/runes.

And endgame, is really just cosmetics. As with any other custom item, you are required to pay a fee for the customization. So, for instance, you have a Berserker’s Pearl Quarterstaff (which I think is hideous) but you want it to look like the Final Rest, you should be required to pay the needed fee for your staff to have the same appearance of the Final Rest, while keeping its stats.

I don’t agree with taking the transmutation items out of the gem store, especially knowing that the only reason gems are so high right now is largely due to a steady stream of sales. If I had the ability to change anything about the transmutation items is that I would my the Transmutation Crystals a little cheaper, and I do mean a little but only because you can’t get them from doing world completion, dailies, or completing your personal story quest.

Terrahero.9358:

I understand your complaint, and the point you are trying to make. But you are muddying it up with an unreasonable request. Maybe you shouldve stuck to the point.

Which is that people used Fine Transmutation Stones, which are almost exclusively gem bought (I certainly never got a Fine Stone from anything but the gemstore) to change the look on their gear. People did this believing that this gear would last them “forever”. Okay to drop a few $ on getting cool looking gear if that gear will last you, right?

But now that everything is switching over to Ascended this gear will in time be replaced. And if they want to adopt the similar look they have to spend gems again just to keep the same look you might very well have already payed for once.

Basicly ANet is selling you the same skins twice.

Why would anyone do this thinking that your armor would last FOREVER? that is a terriable idea…….imagine for the rest of the game life, there was never any new cooler armor skins? No new better weapons……You just stayed the same forever……. Everyone would quit….. there would be no reason to play…

Namica.2951:

If a-net is going to add all these various new ascended armors (eventually) and weapons that we’ll need, then they need to take transmutation crystals off the gem store. It’s unfair that after being told our armor and weapons will be something that we never replace, we were then given new ones to replace the old with. End game is supposed to be about cosmetics, and now even that is being done away with due to harsh use of crystals coupled with ascended gear making the old exotic skins a moot point.

Make the gems something you buy in game for a sane price.

You might have a point for exotic equipment you transmuted before November 13, 2012. Since that day, it is known that ascended gear would be coming so you transmuted on your own risk.
But even without that, your argument is weak. As you say yourself, end game is about cosmetics and it was known since before release that new skins would be introduced over time. You could never be sure that the skins you have now are the ones you would want to keep forever, so the problem of “wasted” crystals is independent of ascended gear.

Zerroth.2401:

Terrahero.9358:

I understand your complaint, and the point you are trying to make. But you are muddying it up with an unreasonable request. Maybe you shouldve stuck to the point.

Which is that people used Fine Transmutation Stones, which are almost exclusively gem bought (I certainly never got a Fine Stone from anything but the gemstore) to change the look on their gear. People did this believing that this gear would last them “forever”. Okay to drop a few $ on getting cool looking gear if that gear will last you, right?

But now that everything is switching over to Ascended this gear will in time be replaced. And if they want to adopt the similar look they have to spend gems again just to keep the same look you might very well have already payed for once.

Basicly ANet is selling you the same skins twice.

Why would anyone do this thinking that your armor would last FOREVER? that is a terriable idea…….imagine for the rest of the game life, there was never any new cooler armor skins? No new better weapons……You just stayed the same forever……. Everyone would quit….. there would be no reason to play…

Protip: GW1 had this system and survived for many many many years.

Then again, GW1 also had a lot more content released in its first year (game world doubled in land mass due to new continent, hundreds of new skills, two new classes etc…)

Also, GW2 promised no treadmill. And no matter how many times people say its not, adding another tier of gear on top of the existing is the complete definition of gear treadmill.

Really, how many times can people re-define gear treadmill?

New tier

Thats a treadmill.

Treadmill implies repetition, getting ascended gear once is not a repetition of said act, ergo no treadmill (and yes you are doing it only once even if the gear is put out in waves, since it is only one full set).

If you want to go the conservative route and imply all “repetition” and all [gear] tiers are treadmill then yes we have a gear treadmill and have had one since launch, so nothing has changed. Case and point.

Even if we were to concede that they broke their promise (which they have not, until they introduce tiers beyond ascended or start heavy handed gear gating), even then your proposed solution is out of scope… not only because getting transmutation stones is easy, or at least it used to be (as in I have more than I will ever use), with map completion which you can repeat ad nauseam (even if that is no longer the case to the same extent as it used to be, they do come out of achievement chests as well) but also because you are asking them to shut down a potential revenue stream. We have known about ascended roll out startegy for months arguing against it now has little point. When it is already done.

Asking for easier access to transmutation is fine, however, realistically they are not going to make it a vendor item thus eliminating all potential gem store sales. At the end of the day they are a business. So ask to get transmutation stones through some kind of tradeoff that doesn’t completely eliminate a revenue stream is reasonable, asking what the OP is asking is not.

There is no use in trying to talk logically with people who feel they have been wronged. They will and do use any excuse to pass blame to others. They see ghost where there are none. I was certain that ascended would be implemented for a long time. I do not mind tossing a few bucks in for crystals. In man hours its gonna be easier then farming gold.

As for the treadmill until they start putting in a new layer of weapons every six months we are not on one.

Geeze people you would think you would be excited to see some new content. I have never seen people QQ as much as I do on these fourms.

And here is a tip. If your so kittened about this go play something else. When you play any other mmo you will know exactly what a gear treadmill is

Talyn.3295:

And here is a tip. If your so kittened about this go play something else. When you play any other mmo you will know exactly what a gear treadmill is

gft