Guild Wars 2

I found myself pondering over the feature of item damage and repairs while reading about the numerous complaints in regards to dungeons, earning money, etc. I am going to try and share my full thoughts on this topic, but I would love to hear from someone at ArenaNet as to their reasoning behind damaged gear.

That said, let me begin. My first thought is, repairs are in place to punish death, both in reducing effectiveness of the player (when gear is fully damaged) and in penalizing the player monetarily. The question that comes to mind though is, why?

Let’s look at the effects of repairs on the player.
1. It adds stress to the player for dying.
2. It reduces player wealth, in effect acting as a sink.
3. It kicks a player in the teeth while they’re down.
4. It adds an extra step to getting back into the action.

Now let me touch on these points. Firstly, the stress factor. When fighting in a tough area, for example in a dungeon, the player is already stressed by trying to maintain high focus to succeed in the fight and defeat their foe. Adding to this the thought that every death is another chunk of change becomes stressful when currency is already difficult to manage for your average player.

The second note, that it acts as a sink would hold up as a viable reason to keep it, however there are already SEVERAL sinks in place, that it is unnecessary for controlling the economy. That in mind, it then serves only one purpose, to punish the player. More on that in a moment.

Third point is that it kicks the player when they’re down. This ties in with the second point, it costs money. So you died a few times, now not only do you have to return to a repair station which is both time consuming, more so if you walk, or costly if you teleport. In addition to this, the player is already punished by the knowledge of failure and defeat, as well as the currency cost of having to teleport to the nearest waypoint, and the time cost of having to travel.

Last point, I stated it adds an extra step to getting back into the action. The player is now effectively in time out. We have to take time out of our adventure to go and repair, which also acts as an immersion breaker.

So my question is, why do we have repairs? Is it simply because other games have them and so it is expected?

I have read it several times from ArenaNet that the M.O. of GW2 is ‘Fun’. Repairs are not fun, and in every way possible, they are stressful, frustrating, and an extra unnecessary punishment to the player.

Why do I say it’s unnecessary? We are already punished monetarily and with time by having to respawn. Even if we decide to wait for a res, we are still punished by the time factor. Repairs do not fit with the idea of ‘Fun.’

Take a look at areas of the game that do not punish the player with repair costs. Fall death and puzzles. The punishment here is having to start over. However, the punishment of having to start over is sufficient enough, but does not cut into the ‘fun’ factor of the challenge. The same punishment applies when we die in combat. We have to start over, travel, etc. Yet we are thrown an additional punishment for dying in combat.

TL;DR: If the goal is indeed for GW2 to be fun, then why add this extra condition to death? We have the timed death penalty, teleport cost, time cost, stress factor, frustration, some times even anger! Do we really need repairs on top of this?

I agree with you to a point. There needs to be some sting to death, but having to PAY to spawn at a waypoint, and then having to PAY to repair your gear is overkill. Do one or the other, not both.

Has anyone ever been so broke they could not PAY for the spawn at a waypoint? What happens if no one ever came along to rez you? Are you stuck in death for all eternity?

Break our gear, but let us have a free waypoint spawn.

If you don’t have the money it reduces the cost of the waypoint. The very goal of armor repairs is to act as a sink for economy reasons.

/agree with all of the above posts.

edit: except eronth

The ONLY reason I can see for having armor destroyed (and at such a fast rate) is to try and sale armor repair kits in the GEM store, however this is about he dumbest and most frustrating marketing ploy.
Other games have tried the same tactic with MUCH BETTER success.
Best example of this is a game where armor is destroyed, the ARMOR ACTUALLY BREAKs, RIPS, and hangs off the player’s body. Not only dose this give you you sense of REAL combat it also exposes the player’s underclothes and new/better underclothes can be bought from the cash shop.

So, to reiterate…
Non-visual BROKEN ARMOR to sell ARMOR REPAIR = LAME
Visual BROKEN ARMOR to sell UNDERCLOTHES = EPIC

Sounds strange, but trust me, combat seems much more intense when your armor literally breaks and hangs off you. The current, “oops your armor is broken, you can tell by the little icon” system is just awful.

I agree with the above posts and I have a suggestion. Everytime you move in the world and want to teleport, the game will calculate your distance from the available waypoints and charge you depending on the distance cause now you teleport to a waypoint and if you try to teleport to the same waypoint without even making a step it asks you money again even if you are exactly under the waypoint and in the high-level places it required more than a silver even for the nearest waypoint. It may sound like a small price but if you are looking for something or chasing dynamic events or group events, at the end you spend more in teleports that you take from the rewards. Now about the death. I suggest the nearest waypoint to be free as you already have to pay for repair.

Reynfall.1547:

/agree with all of the above posts.

edit: except eronth

Right, well mine is fact. That is literally the reason armor breaks then costs money to repair. It is to sink money. Money sinks are used to help balance in-game economy.

eronth.9017:

Right, well mine is fact. That is literally the reason armor breaks then costs money to repair. It is to sink money. Money sinks are used to help balance in-game economy.

Except that there are already so many sinks that it’s an unnecessary addition.

Sondergaard.8469:

eronth.9017:

Right, well mine is fact. That is literally the reason armor breaks then costs money to repair. It is to sink money. Money sinks are used to help balance in-game economy.

Except that there are already so many sinks that it’s an unnecessary addition.

I’m just saying why we have them. Necessity is a different question. Quite honestly, I’ve never really had a problem with dying sinking all of my money. Travel is the one that kinda bothers me, just a tad too expensive in my mind.

Its there for 2 reasons, as a metric of difficulty and as a gold sink. Simple as that. Players make much more copper than they think, more than enough to cover typical travel and death costs. However GW2 doesnt do a good job of showing how much you make (which in itself could be a suggestion) and so many people feel as if they’re paying huge amounts when in reality they’re not.

All that aside, having your armor break just a gold sink mechanism is lame. At least they could make it a bit more interesting.

And btw, I don’t like the fact that i really don’t know my armor is broken till I start dieing easily

Alexander Quess.1932:

The ONLY reason I can see for having armor destroyed (and at such a fast rate) is to try and sale armor repair kits in the GEM store, however this is about he dumbest and most frustrating marketing ploy.
Other games have tried the same tactic with MUCH BETTER success.
Best example of this is a game where armor is destroyed, the ARMOR ACTUALLY BREAKs, RIPS, and hangs off the player’s body. Not only dose this give you you sense of REAL combat it also exposes the player’s underclothes and new/better underclothes can be bought from the cash shop.

So, to reiterate…
Non-visual BROKEN ARMOR to sell ARMOR REPAIR = LAME
Visual BROKEN ARMOR to sell UNDERCLOTHES = EPIC

Sounds strange, but trust me, combat seems much more intense when your armor literally breaks and hangs off you. The current, “oops your armor is broken, you can tell by the little icon” system is just awful.

When your armor is broken it no longer appears on your body.

Jhu.3965:

Alexander Quess.1932:

The ONLY reason I can see for having armor destroyed (and at such a fast rate) is to try and sale armor repair kits in the GEM store, however this is about he dumbest and most frustrating marketing ploy.
Other games have tried the same tactic with MUCH BETTER success.
Best example of this is a game where armor is destroyed, the ARMOR ACTUALLY BREAKs, RIPS, and hangs off the player’s body. Not only dose this give you you sense of REAL combat it also exposes the player’s underclothes and new/better underclothes can be bought from the cash shop.

So, to reiterate…
Non-visual BROKEN ARMOR to sell ARMOR REPAIR = LAME
Visual BROKEN ARMOR to sell UNDERCLOTHES = EPIC

Sounds strange, but trust me, combat seems much more intense when your armor literally breaks and hangs off you. The current, “oops your armor is broken, you can tell by the little icon” system is just awful.

When your armor is broken it no longer appears on your body.

Not on my client it doesn’t. My armor has been completely broken and still on my body. And besides, you still have to stop and look at what condition your armor is in rather then it just being apparent.

GW1 death penalty built tension and rewarded skill. I have no idea what the point of this WoW style penalty is, aside from discouraging me from doing dungeons.

I honestly agree that armor repair is stupid, mostly because it’s just an extra sink. As mentioned we already have the Waypoint payment during death we do not need another money sink.
Side note: With all the recent nerfs to selling buying and making items account bound more often than need be it seems as though Anet is trying to keep us from earning as much in game money as possible.

Tajah.8142:

I agree with you to a point. There needs to be some sting to death, but having to PAY to spawn at a waypoint, and then having to PAY to repair your gear is overkill. Do one or the other, not both.

Has anyone ever been so broke they could not PAY for the spawn at a waypoint? What happens if no one ever came along to rez you? Are you stuck in death for all eternity?

Break our gear, but let us have a free waypoint spawn.

You use the same method I use to return to Lion’s Arch. It’s unfortunate, but at least you won’t be trapped.

Press H, go to PvP, click enter Heart of the Mists, run to the Lion’s Arch Gate

I suppose a more appropriate way to phrase my question would be, do we need them? Does it enhance the experience, or hinder it? For me, I feel it is unimaginative, and a hindrance. It’s annoying, not fun. It does not add a sense of excitement or danger, but rather a sense of frustration and annoyance. Especially when there are so many scenarios when a player can die unexplained to a single blow.

I understand the need to discourage death, but I have seen so much creativity from arenanet in this game, I find it difficult to believe the solution to discourage death is to simply have a copy paste feature of every other mmo just because.

Hmm, I was really hoping to see some big red love on this topic. Well, I hope the suggestion was seen at least and they take it into consideration as a possibility. It would certainly improve my game experience as I feel death is already punishment enough without the extra slap.

I wouldn’t mind paying for repairs if the deaths were actually my fault. However, most of the time I die because of random thin-air spawns on top of me while I happen to be sneezing or closing a the window. Some boss creatures also have ridiculous knock-down duration and damage which means you’re borked if you’re alone. Isn’t the difficulty supposed to dynamically change to suit the number of present players?

Yes, clearly you must be right. I will trust the word of a player that repair is not necessary as a money sink, and that the current state of many players graveyard-rushing dungeons totally wouldn’t be even worse with less death penalty.

(Apologies for the passive-aggressive sarcasm)

Weirwynn.2390:

Yes, clearly you must be right. I will trust the word of a player that repair is not necessary as a money sink, and that the current state of many players graveyard-rushing dungeons totally wouldn’t be even worse with less death penalty.

(Apologies for the passive-aggressive sarcasm)

I never said I was right, I shared my opinion and asked for opinions, feedback, and thought out responses. Your sarcasm is not appreciated, nor is it called for. If you have something constructive to say, please do, but otherwise refrain from responses like this that contribute nothing constructive to the topic.

You can’t get mad for getting damaged armor when dieing, since dieing is avoidable unless your in pvp or wvw. The only sink they should change is free teleport (close by to not abuse this) when dead, and lower overall wp costs but still keep them. mentioned a million and a half times by now, 100% complete a zone, discount traveling to WP in that zone.

Alexander Quess.1932:

…armor is destroyed, the ARMOR ACTUALLY BREAKs, RIPS, and hangs off the player’s body. Not only dose this give you you sense of REAL combat it also exposes the player’s underclothes and new/better underclothes can be bought from the cash shop.

So, to reiterate…
Non-visual BROKEN ARMOR to sell ARMOR REPAIR = LAME
Visual BROKEN ARMOR to sell UNDERCLOTHES = EPIC

Sounds strange, but trust me, combat seems much more intense when your armor literally breaks and hangs off you. The current, “oops your armor is broken, you can tell by the little icon” system is just awful.

I agree!

Here’s my view though on the whole repairs thing.

I feel like its not a bad thing. In GW1 we had DP, which could build up easily and could also be a challenge to get rid off (60% DP sucked but made things challenging).

I feel like OP’s views are a bit harsh. I feel like repairing is not too much of a money sink and some of the other things mentioned are to give you some sort of penalty (the actual DP aside from armor only lasts a few seconds, so I feel like a longer lasting one isn’t too bad). I think that getting the free WP when dead to closest WP should also be done, like NinjaEd said (I was thinking the same thing while reading the other posts). I also think that there should be a permanent reward for 100% complete as mentioned by NinjaEd (the whole discounts things. And if it is implemented, let the players know in-game, we might not notice the difference immediately). I feel like the whole money sink thing is not a bad idea, since we don’t want the economy to inflate disproportionately (ie having to trade in globs of ectoplasm because regular currency isn’t enough). Even with the way things are, my net revenue seems to have a positive trend (except when doing WvW. That gets expensive fast, lol. And not just because of repairs. Upgrades anyone?).

I feel like OP’s concerns 1 & 3 are just a personal thing, I don’t experience either. 2 & 4 are valid, but I think they help to add gravity to death. Imagine if the only cost were the traveling. Then death is no longer near as bad. Especially if you’re getting rez’d.

Just wanted to add my 2 cents worth.

Cheers! May we meet in-game.

I don’t mind the cost, I just wish the need for repairs was more visible without having to go into my character panel and look for broken icons. Can’t I have some on-screen warning icon/message to remind me when my gear is broken?

I usually don’t notice for a really long time because I only open my character panel to learn new skills or dye something, and then I notice that half my gear is broken. When did that happen?

I know it says in the chat log when I die and something breaks because of it, but I rarely notice that because of zone chat, guild chat, or just simply the fact that I’m not looking at chat because I just died and I’m concentrating on getting back into the action.

I got into the habit of opening my character panel and checking if I need to repair each time I see a repair vendor, but I really think the interface should do a better job at communicating this information.

Silverwing.3416:

I don’t mind the cost, I just wish the need for repairs was more visible without having to go into my character panel and look for broken icons. Can’t I have some on-screen warning icon/message to remind me when my gear is broken?

Equipment does disappear from your model when it breaks (not becomes damaged) and there is in fact an icon in the bottom-center of your hud that displays a broken yellow shield when you have damaged equipment, and a red one when you have broken equipment.

I’m not arguing that there doesn’t need to be sinks in place. Of course there do, otherwise we do get economy inflation and that’s bad for everyone. Is it a necessity to do it through repairs though? Does it impact the economy that much? Are there more creative/inventive ways that it could be accomplished?

One of my favorite things about Guild Wars 1 was that there were no repairs. Death was punished in a meaningful way but not in a way that was so overwhelming that it was impossible to continue. Mind you, I’m not saying repairs are overwhelming, they are just annoying in my opinion. We actually still have the death penalty in GW2, except now we also have repairs on top of it.

The question is not so much, does it do what it’s supposed to, as it is, is it really necessary? There is no doubt that it does work as a sink. It does punish the player. It does function as intended. But it is based off an archaic and dated model. Is there not a better way?

I think that in PvE it’s quite a good idea to have repair and broken armor system. But what we have in GW2 is just insane. Every dead = broken armor piece=-2s from repair and -2s from respawn. IT IS JUST WRONG. I could understand this prices only if armor would break not so often as it is now.
On the other side there should be no way to destroy armor in any kind of PvP, especially in WvW where it’s normal thing to die. I personaly dont play WvW just because of that reason.

My thought on this is prices need to be reduced. I was doing a dungeon and knew I would die constantly, so I didn’t repair my armor at all since it would have cost me well over 30s in the end, so i let my armor break until red. I think the incredibly high costs keeps people from wanting to actually repair the armor because dying is very common and easy in this game. Honestly, you have one heal and that’s pretty much it. Compared to Guild Wars where a team of 8 would typically have 2 healers and each healer had 3-5 healing skills alone. Then dying was a lot less likely and penalty was less. Now it’s significantly easier to die and the penalty is far worse. I don’t think money pit really begins to define how awful these costs are. If anything, the cost of armor repairs should be half of what it is now, then people still get penalized and it’s still fun

I do think that the teleport costs adds insult to injury when you die. It should be free to go to the NEAREST waypoint when dead. I think that can be the reason why some of the harder bosses are ignored in areas, people get fed up with constantly dying and the repair costs plus teleport costs make it not worth the effort. So they ignore the event after a few unsuccessful tries.