Guild Wars 2

Hello everyone! I totally love GW2 gameplay, world is amazing, living story was really fun, monthly events are very important part of keeping the game alive. Although GW2 has dungeons and wvwvw, only thing many people miss (including myself) are honestly : raids. There is really awesome combat system in GW2, people can create very nice balanced or dps focused builds. We dont need 20 or 40 man dungeons, but to be totally honest, running through same dungeons over and over again with 5 people turns into a stereotype really fast. Even 10 man dungeons or something similar to Urgoz warren or deep in GW1, would be an awesome refreshment and a reason for people to keep coming back and making progress on bosses etc. Boss fight ingame are having very interesting mechanics and i think it could be even more interesting in dungeon combat with 10 ppl, so everyone would have to do certain jobs in party. Raids in all games are all the same with trinity system. In GW2, they would be just so different and amazing. Please think about it in the future. Anyway, i really love the game, it is definitely my favourite game so far thank you for making it better and better. Thank you and cheers.
Martin

a while ago my guild did a full on rade on one of the PvE maps

Explain one thing to me first: What do you need a raid for? What mechanics require more than 5 players? And if they do, do they really add to the gameplay and wherein lies the difference for the individual player?

Raids only stick out at provide almost not challenge for the majority of the players. In most raid only 3-5 people really have an important job and have to deal with what the game is throwing at them while the rest of the raid just has to not suck at playing the game.

Yeah, 10 or more players dungeon would be a great idea. Maybe 20 to 40, I’d support that. If well designed, it does provide challenges. And mostly: content. The possiblities that would come with a big group-raid dungeon would expand the content quite a bit.

There was a big push by these forums to keep content open world even end game level of content. We have raids but they are open world raids we may see big dungeons in time.

GW2 has 2 things that make large group raids unnecessary, or difficult to adapt to the game:

1) Scaling. Content is the same or similar regardless of the amount of people (with exceptions at very high amounts of people). There would have to be a revamp to the scaling system, or have it completely eliminated in order to accommodate missions that required lots of people. And even then, smaller guilds, solo players, etc will undoubtedly complain that they don’t have access to the content.

2) Elimination of the trinity. It Urgoz or the Deep, you needed a majority of your group to be running a specific role. With the elimination of “roles”, where everyone can pretty much do anything, there is little need for group diversity. The extent of it currently in the game is “we can’t all have light armor, or we die”. There is no complex team interaction and composition. So, a raid would be boring. Think of the Claw of Jormag fight. It’s a fairly complex fight with different stages, techniques you must use, environmental weapons, enemy spawns, obstacles, etc. However it is trivialized by the fact that you can overcome all of those challenges just with a large number of people. This is how I imagine raids would be. You lose the need for each individual person doing something different when you increase the amount of people participating.

Try doing dungeons like CM Story all by yourself. It’s incredibly challenging and unforgiving. I died so many times and had to pay so many repair bills and yet….I kept playing. It was actually fun. Kinda like Demon Souls. Your build will eventually revolve around surviving overpowered npc’s while dealing sustained damage and finding new way to avoid attack or counter enemy mechanics. I found that a condition thief will caltrops works nicely. I think a guardian would be pretty good at soloing dungeons but I don’t have mine at level 80 yet.

nachtnebel.9168:

Explain one thing to me first: What do you need a raid for? What mechanics require more than 5 players?

None right now… that’s the point, the game could use some.

nachtnebel.9168:

And if they do, do they really add to the gameplay and wherein lies the difference for the individual player?

Absolutely, it would be great to have some new mechanics other than tank/spank. Use your imagination!

nachtnebel.9168:

Raids only stick out at provide almost not challenge for the majority of the players. In most raid only 3-5 people really have an important job and have to deal with what the game is throwing at them while the rest of the raid just has to not suck at playing the game.

I don’t know what raids you’ve played but I’ve seen raids where every player must be on their game or it’s a wipe. And either way, who cares if the raid is easy or hard? It’s something to do, and nothing in this game is required so if you don’t like it DON’T DO IT!

1. How would you ever get 40 people for a raid?
2. I wouldn’t really want to see people catching free rides. 5 man dungeons means that everyone sees what everyone else is doing. IF one person is slacking it’s noticeable. In a big mob? Not so much.
3. Many people left other games because they had raids. Why should this MMO get raids when so many others have it?

MistaMike.7356:

None right now… that’s the point, the game could use some.

I was not talking about GW2 mechanics, I was talking about mechanics in general. There are no non-redundant mechanics that would require a raid to work.

Absolutely, it would be great to have some new mechanics other than tank/spank. Use your imagination!

Well, I already made the statement that there are no such (non-redundant) mechanics that require a raid.

I don’t know what raids you’ve played but I’ve seen raids where every player must be on their game or it’s a wipe. And either way, who cares if the raid is easy or hard? It’s something to do, and nothing in this game is required so if you don’t like it DON’T DO IT!

What you call “being on their game” I call “has to not suck”. No MMO up until now had raids in it that forced each individual players to make decisions on their own, it was always the same raid dance for the fast majority of the raid and only a few players got to do the important and challenging stuff.

I agree that something to do is always nice, but when I comes down to assigning development resources they would be better invested in regular dungeons than in raids. Raids offer nothing regular dungeons can’t offer too but they are way less accessible for casual gamers. So besides the fact that they are in almost every theme park MMO since WoW their is no reason to have them.

It seems, to me, anyway, that many people complain about the difficulties in getting a group together for the dungeons we have now. (Not to mention Guild Missions.) I am not sure that trying to get 40 people together for a raid would not have even more people unsatisfied with getting groups together to do content. Maybe after there are more tools in the game, and a large percentage of the playerbase asks for raids, we will see them. Always something to look forward to. =)

There are obviously more things you can play around when there’s more people involve. For example encounter where everyone have to be in perfect spacing. Rotating skills to keep stability up or rotating guardian full heal etc etc.

You don’t necessary need to make those gigantic 20 or 40 man raid, even 10 man is fine.

That being said, even the dungeon in this game isn’t very interesting. I havn’t done arah 124, and CM3. Out of all the other dungeon there’s only a few boss fight which I find interesting. The Lupi, SE path 2, and fire elemental in fotm. I think every boss fight should be like those 3 boss.

That being said, I’m not sure how the developer can desgin interesting dungeon content when the 5 man entering dungeon could range from 5 tank to 5 berserker dps.

I think at the heart, Raids were/are something in games that guilds could do together. Sure pugs do them, but imo were created specifically with guilds in mind.

When it comes to pve, I think we need something beyond guild missions to do as guilds because even guild missions isn’t something really done together (guild bounties/trek, I’m lookin at you). Guild rushes is fun and all and something we do together, but we need something more, imo.

We shouldn’t be telling ourselves why raids wouldn’t work, we should be coming up with ways in which they would. I agree with current design that it seems like they wouldn’t work, but I think that having a dungeon scheme with more than 5 players need to make its way in. Right now the only thing that is really available for guilds to do together on larger scales that provide any sort of challenge is WvW. Pvp is always challenging though.

^ ya but this is the thing. In those 20 man or 40 man raid you have a cap in number of players. So it become a problem when a guild can’t get enough people or a problem when everyone wants to go.

Take for example my guild, we could have 100 people online during peak NA time and 80 people online during peak AUS time. That means not everyone can join the raid.

I don’t miss raids. I didn’t mind them in GW1 because of heroes, but in GW2 I don’t think I’d like the idea.

I would, however, be very open to it if the raiders could understand that GW2 is all about making rewards available to all paths, so anything a raider could get in their raid could also be gotten by another player in fractals or doing an open world Dragon boss. To this day, I’ve yet to see a game with raiders who didn’t feel an extreme sense of entitlement, however, declaring that their way to play the game is the only right way and therefor they DESERVE the gear and no one else does.

If the GW2 community could raid without that childish, entitlement driven, mindset then it wouldn’t affect me one way or the other if raids were introduced so I wouldn’t care at all.

nachtnebel.9168:

Explain one thing to me first: What do you need a raid for? What mechanics require more than 5 players? And if they do, do they really add to the gameplay and wherein lies the difference for the individual player?

Raids only stick out at provide almost not challenge for the majority of the players. In most raid only 3-5 people really have an important job and have to deal with what the game is throwing at them while the rest of the raid just has to not suck at playing the game.

Anything requiring multiple splits of groups, its also need to flesh out the other roles such as support and control rather then damage. Yes they add to the gameplay, this game is sorely lacking roles. Currently its just DPS with a few support moves that are nice buts it enough for other classes, its very limited. Thats why Guardians and Mesmers are so valued is because they offer support/control that is good unlike other classes.

It sounds like to me you are in referencing old wow it at the very least larger raiding where roles are less important. Honestly i think the sweet spot is 8-10, 8 allows 4 groups of two as nothing you do should be a solo job.

I just dont understand why GW cant have its own versions of Raids, i actually had a post in the dungeon forums as a sort of make your own raid discussion. Why cant GW2 Raids be short and to the point, time commitment is working on the boss not clearing the dungeon. Why cant they have multiple difficulty levels? So everyone can experience them and the higher difficulty gets unique loot? Why cant the raids have progression within the raid itself so people can still progress their character while not effecting outside.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Design-a-GW2-Raid/first#post1881892

I don’t see raids ever happening in this game. Period. And I don’t think they should. There are dozens of games you can raid in if you want to. Let’s leave the focus of this game on the open world please.

Dev time could be a lot better spent working on stuff that fits with this games direction, than spend it on raids.

what’s there to do in the open world. puzzled my mind.

You know how most players always say they enjoy open world content. Yet they rarely do them. Must be pretty hard making world content people actually want to do.

Except for the world meta event which drop chest. I dont’ think people do anything else.

There are raid-like events in GW2, you just need to look harder to find them.

Orr temples are like that, but there are other event chains that you can do with a large group.

AntiGw.9367:

There are raid-like events in GW2, you just need to look harder to find them.

Orr temples are like that, but there are other event chains that you can do with a large group.

The problem is those people that enjoy the raid in other game won’t necessary enjoy the raid in GW2 because they are pretty much completely different.

Jski.6180:

There was a big push by these forums to keep content open world even end game level of content. We have raids but they are open world raids we may see big dungeons in time.

I have to agree with this, open world is lacking and needs much more permanent love by the devs we’ve still not received what we were promised as far as full on DE and meta focuses development for PVE and rewards to match. There’s been some minor things thrown in here and there as afterthoughts but nothing concrete.

You want raids? Go do Grenth :P

penatbater.4710:

You want raids? Go do Grenth :P

In GW2, Grenth raids you!

End game content doesn’t have to to be raids.
End game content needs to be difficult and rewarding (yes, loots).
GW2 doesn’t have endgame content, it’s got RP content.
I love this game but hate is so much at the same time…

Raind or not, this game lacks end game.
I don’t consider level 80 zones an end game.

laokoko.7403:

what’s there to do in the open world. puzzled my mind.

You know how most players always say they enjoy open world content. Yet they rarely do them. Must be pretty hard making world content people actually want to do.

Except for the world meta event which drop chest. I dont’ think people do anything else.

What evidence do you actually have that people don’t do open world content. The fact is there are more people who solo MMOs than most people like to believe, and all of them do open world content. I’m a group player and I prefer open world content. I’m in a guild that tends to prefer open world content and we do plenty of it.

But here’s the real question. Everyone talks about an MMO being a massively multiplayer game…instances aren’t massively multiplayer. People say Guild Wars 1 wasn’t a true MMO because it was instanced.

Yet those who claim to love MMOs spend all their time in cities waiting for instances. Seems a bit odd to me.

I think you’d be surprised about how many people actually enjoy open world content.

Why isn’t it done even more than it is? Because no manufacturer has ever made it more rewarding than instanced content and a percentage of players follow the rewards. That’s what’s happening now. There were plenty of people running Orr when Orr was profitable. Now that it’s not, it’s not as busy.

So the question isn’t whether people like or dislike it, the question is where is the profit. In most games the profit is in dungeons and raids, so that’s where you’ll find the people. But it doesn’t necessarily indicate preference.

Nick.6972:

Raind or not, this game lacks end game.
I don’t consider level 80 zones an end game.

This game does not lack end game. This game has end game that you don’t consider end game…which is significantly different.

It has end game for me. I’m sorry you can’t see it.

I do believe people like open world content.

I’m just saying there isn’t much “repeatable open world end game content” in this game.

Really most people just do those daily chest event and that’s it.

Vayne.8563:

Nick.6972:

Raind or not, this game lacks end game.
I don’t consider level 80 zones an end game.

This game does not lack end game. This game has end game that you don’t consider end game…which is significantly different.

It has end game for me. I’m sorry you can’t see it.

No it doesnt have End Game as far as most use the term for. If you literally break it down as Game you play at the end and yes everything in every mmo can be considered end game for the most part because you can do it all later.

However when most use the term end game they are referring to content that you do only at max level and traditionally challenging content(Ex Raids).

Currently in GW2 we have Fractals to an extent and Arah, otherwise nothing else. GW2 forums have this theme of getting hung up on improper words and instantly associating them with WoW in a heart beat. What really this topic is about is challenging content is needed, not exactly end game but it would at the least be something like fractals where you could get by on maybe the lowest difficulty but otherwise need max level because if its challenging then it means youl want the extra stats.

laokoko.7403:

I do believe people like open world content.

I’m just saying there isn’t much “repeatable open world end game content” in this game.

Really most people just do those daily chest event and that’s it.

Again, how do you know what “most” people do? That’s my question. What makes you think you have intimate knowledge of the majority.

Let’s pretend there are casual players who just log in to play the game. I know you don’t believe they exist in any numbers, but here me out.

There’s no where where they’re all going to be at one point in time. They’ll be in five different starting zones, different mid range zones, and maybe, eventually different end game zones. So how do you know how many of them there are?

By contrast, everyone who goes to dragon events uses a timer screen, jumps in and stands around or does events in the zone until the dragon shows up. So you see them all at the same time.

This creates the illusion that this is what most people do..but we don’t really know. Only Anet knows what most people do.

I suspect we’d be surprised by how many people are still traipsing around the open world. I know there are dozens of people in my guild doing it.

The greatest potential for more endgame (yes, more – I think there is plenty now) involving large groups is in three areas -

1. Open world dynamic events (more event chains like Grenth or the centaur chain in Harathi)

2. Mini-dungeons (more like Vexx’s Lab and Font of Rhand)

3. Guild missions (guild challenges are particularly great examples)

Im not saying the game is perfect, but the structure exists for them to develop outstanding large group content around the three game elements I mention above. For example, there is no reason that any boss (even complex one’s like Lupi – or brand new complex mechanic bosses) couldnt end up as guild bounties in the open world – or featured in their own mini-dungeons.

And let’s face it – who wouldnt love (feel a moment of panic during) an event in Mt Maelstrom that announces “Test Subject Alpha (or Test Subject Beta ) has escaped from the Crucible.”

For those playing now and looking for this experience, I would strongly suggest finding a solid PVE-focused guild. Like-minded direction and focus in your gameplay goes a long way in this game. Find a guild that spends nights focused on dynamic events in a particular region or map, does things like regular runs of the mini dungeons and, most importantly, that does guild missions every week.

Like many, I would be against instanced content that limited participation (e.g., 10/20/25 man raids). I have a hard enough time already leaving people behind when five of us enter a dungeon.

Imagine a zone where players have to control and defend strategic locations on a map wide scale. Failure to defend and control certain locations would make it impossible for players to navigate freely and access certain areas. NPC’s are attacking these locations with foot soldiers, ranged casters, archers and siege weapons.

Calae.1738:

Imagine a zone where players have to control and defend strategic locations on a map wide scale. Failure to defend and control certain locations would make it impossible for players to navigate freely and access certain areas. NPC’s are attacking these locations with foot soldiers, ranged casters, archers and siege weapons.

I almost replied to this thread that isn’t that was Orr is, just a large outdoor never ending raid, but you beat me to it.

Seems like people want what other games they used to play had. So they want “raids.” Which were essentially large-group dungeons. We have dungeons. We have bosses that can be fought with large groups. No, the world bosses aren’t instanced. Which makes them even more dynamic. I’m not sure where the advantage to an instanced raid is.

Raid-style boss = open world bosses
Do you miss the trash you have to clear pre-boss? Cuz you can just slaughter moas while you wait for the boss to appear.

In GW2 The endgame content begins in the level 1 tutorial mision.

That mission and your personal story are the only parts of “endgame” that are NOT repeatable.

Everything else is fully repeatable (ok you only get hearts credit once, but you can do them over anyway).

Nothing is missing in endgame. Some folks just need to realize this game is more like City Of Heroes and less like WoW.

Play the full game, leave wow to itself and stop trying to bring it here, and you will soon be just as baffled by these “where mah endgamez at” folks as those of us in the game having fun are.

Part of me feels with a lot of the Open World raids the mechanics are hidden by the number of people doing them. Take for example Jormag, 2nd part you have to break crystals to let golems through to blow up the walls, while also dealing with Vets. Really cool interesting mechanics. I’ve done Jormag with 10 people and it is an amazingly fun fight.

However what most people experience of the Dragons is standing on a hill auto-attacking (with bad lag), as only a couple of people kite the vets and destroy the crystals. In otherwords the HP of the Dragon Scale, the mechanics don’t well.

I personally would love the option as a Guild to open an instanced version of Jormag, and run it with 20-30 guild mates rather than open world and get the whole experience with mates.

This is what I would love to see as a “Raid”. And I do think there is a place for it in the game.

Arena Net could put endgame content in gw2 this very moment
and this forum will still be crying for “true endgame”.

Warruz.8096:

No it doesnt have End Game as far as most use the term for. If you literally break it down as Game you play at the end and yes everything in every mmo can be considered end game for the most part because you can do it all later.

However when most use the term end game they are referring to content that you do only at max level and traditionally challenging content(Ex Raids).

Currently in GW2 we have Fractals to an extent and Arah, otherwise nothing else. GW2 forums have this theme of getting hung up on improper words and instantly associating them with WoW in a heart beat. What really this topic is about is challenging content is needed, not exactly end game but it would at the least be something like fractals where you could get by on maybe the lowest difficulty but otherwise need max level because if its challenging then it means youl want the extra stats.

It has Arah, Coe, Orr, WvW, Fractals
Now things that can be considered end game on top of that: PvP, other dungeons, world boss events.
It has as much end game as other MMOs. The only difference is that other MMOs force you into raids to gear up. You don’t have to do it here.

Curo.2483:

GW2 has 2 things that make large group raids unnecessary, or difficult to adapt to the game:

1) Scaling. Content is the same or similar regardless of the amount of people (with exceptions at very high amounts of people). There would have to be a revamp to the scaling system, or have it completely eliminated in order to accommodate missions that required lots of people. And even then, smaller guilds, solo players, etc will undoubtedly complain that they don’t have access to the content.

2) Elimination of the trinity. It Urgoz or the Deep, you needed a majority of your group to be running a specific role. With the elimination of “roles”, where everyone can pretty much do anything, there is little need for group diversity. The extent of it currently in the game is “we can’t all have light armor, or we die”. There is no complex team interaction and composition. So, a raid would be boring. Think of the Claw of Jormag fight. It’s a fairly complex fight with different stages, techniques you must use, environmental weapons, enemy spawns, obstacles, etc. However it is trivialized by the fact that you can overcome all of those challenges just with a large number of people. This is how I imagine raids would be. You lose the need for each individual person doing something different when you increase the amount of people participating.

This is why we cannot have complex raids in GW2. So many people act like the lack of a trinity is a huge improvement in game play, but that trinity exists for a reason. GW2 is fun, but many of the “innovations” are self limiting in nature resulting in shallow (and I’m being kind) PvE content that is more about numbers (or, in the case of dungeons, glitching the content) than about tactics. It’s a casuals game after all.

Phaedryn.3698:

This is why we cannot have complex raids in GW2. So many people act like the lack of a trinity is a huge improvement in game play, but that trinity exists for a reason. GW2 is fun, but many of the “innovations” are self limiting in nature resulting in shallow (and I’m being kind) PvE content that is more about numbers (or, in the case of dungeons, glitching the content) than about tactics. It’s a casuals game after all.

I wouldn’t use the word “tactics” to describe 50 people standing in a circle around a boss and rhythmically pushing buttons.

AntiGw.9367:

Phaedryn.3698:

This is why we cannot have complex raids in GW2. So many people act like the lack of a trinity is a huge improvement in game play, but that trinity exists for a reason. GW2 is fun, but many of the “innovations” are self limiting in nature resulting in shallow (and I’m being kind) PvE content that is more about numbers (or, in the case of dungeons, glitching the content) than about tactics. It’s a casuals game after all.

I wouldn’t use the word “tactics” to describe 50 people standing in a circle around a boss and rhythmically pushing buttons.

That’s what GW2 raid(world boss) look like right?

People always make fun about raid in other game, but GW2 take it further.

GW2 raid is even less tactical. And you can run in hit jomag 5 times in the head and come out with a world chest.

laokoko.7403:

AntiGw.9367:

Phaedryn.3698:

This is why we cannot have complex raids in GW2. So many people act like the lack of a trinity is a huge improvement in game play, but that trinity exists for a reason. GW2 is fun, but many of the “innovations” are self limiting in nature resulting in shallow (and I’m being kind) PvE content that is more about numbers (or, in the case of dungeons, glitching the content) than about tactics. It’s a casuals game after all.

I wouldn’t use the word “tactics” to describe 50 people standing in a circle around a boss and rhythmically pushing buttons.

That’s what GW2 raid(world boss) look like right?

People always make fun about raid in other game, but GW2 take it further.

GW2 raid is even less tactical. And you can run in hit jomag 5 times in the head and come out with a world chest.

I was thinking more about the bosses that actually do stuff.

Running around, evading attacks, reviving teammates, compared to watching people’s healthbars or your DPS meter while the tanks are juggling aggro.

AntiGw.9367:

laokoko.7403:

AntiGw.9367:

Phaedryn.3698:

This is why we cannot have complex raids in GW2. So many people act like the lack of a trinity is a huge improvement in game play, but that trinity exists for a reason. GW2 is fun, but many of the “innovations” are self limiting in nature resulting in shallow (and I’m being kind) PvE content that is more about numbers (or, in the case of dungeons, glitching the content) than about tactics. It’s a casuals game after all.

I wouldn’t use the word “tactics” to describe 50 people standing in a circle around a boss and rhythmically pushing buttons.

That’s what GW2 raid(world boss) look like right?

People always make fun about raid in other game, but GW2 take it further.

GW2 raid is even less tactical. And you can run in hit jomag 5 times in the head and come out with a world chest.

I was thinking more about the bosses that actually do stuff.

Running around, evading attacks, reviving teammates, compared to watching people’s healthbars or your DPS meter while the tanks are juggling aggro.

As boring as you make raiding sound like in other game. I can press the auto attack button and go afk in GW2 in most world chest event.

Not only that, I can slack as much as possible and hit the boss 5 times in the head and walk away with a world chest.

So if everything people make fun about raiding in other game is true. GW2 take it one step further.

And I think Ratty’s response summed up what I felt about instanced and non instanced raid. If jomag was an instanced fight with 10 people with no WP rush that might be an interesting fight. I understand you can scale the raid fight by the amount of people participation. But I don’t think it is easy to do. And if you visit the dynamic event forum, Anet obviously didn’t do a very good job and many people is complaining.

I still think, it would be amazing to have even 10 man dungeons /(raids) ingame. I am not talking about challenge. Everything can count as a challenge solo.. tho, this game is mostly about players. And i would love to play atleast those 10 – 12 man dungeons where everyone has to do certain thing or its a group wipe this is what i love about it.

AntiGw.9367:

penatbater.4710:

You want raids? Go do Grenth :P

In GW2, Grenth raids you!

Lyssa and that kitten Gorilla.

Ratty.5176:

Part of me feels with a lot of the Open World raids the mechanics are hidden by the number of people doing them. Take for example Jormag, 2nd part you have to break crystals to let golems through to blow up the walls, while also dealing with Vets. Really cool interesting mechanics. I’ve done Jormag with 10 people and it is an amazingly fun fight.

However what most people experience of the Dragons is standing on a hill auto-attacking (with bad lag), as only a couple of people kite the vets and destroy the crystals. In otherwords the HP of the Dragon Scale, the mechanics don’t well.

I personally would love the option as a Guild to open an instanced version of Jormag, and run it with 20-30 guild mates rather than open world and get the whole experience with mates.

This is what I would love to see as a “Raid”. And I do think there is a place for it in the game.

This, a thousand times this! All the cool world bosses (Jormag, some of the better temples in Orr, Harati chain etc) should be available as instances for guilds, with choosable difficulty (10-man, 15-man, 20-man etc). You can also add more rewards(bigger chance of exotics/precursor drop?) for doing it with less people.

Imagine a 10-man Grenth, that would be awesome. This is also already in the game so not much work for Anet. Make it part of guild missions.

Yes i see your pont, tho it would be nice to have a 10 man dungeon for example, where the bosses really require some progress runs etc. And i agree, GW2 has a lot of content and world events can be considered as the raids.

jackinka.6024:

Yes i see your pont, tho it would be nice to have a 10 man dungeon for example, where the bosses really require some progress runs etc. And i agree, GW2 has a lot of content and world events can be considered as the raids.

While this would be interesting at the very least, I think it would also be an extreme waste of resources on ANets part. There is no real reward system in place like other games that have raids. For this reason alone I highly doubt very many will do progression runs in this environment. Very few will spend an entire night wiping on the same boss over and over without some tangible reward on the horizon.

They’ve really screwed up on this whole “MMO” thing haven’t they?

I mean for me, If I’m playing an MMO I don’t want to the doing things with 5 people, I want to be tackling some bad kitten challenging monster with 40 people!

No I don’t consider the world bosses a challenge, way to easy and so much room for error.

Phaedryn.3698:

While this would be interesting at the very least, I think it would also be an extreme waste of resources on ANets part. There is no real reward system in place like other games that have raids. For this reason alone I highly doubt very many will do progression runs in this environment. Very few will spend an entire night wiping on the same boss over and over without some tangible reward on the horizon.

This is why they need a carrot on a stick system, (Thats NOT scaling) for all you vertical hating players out there.

Unique armor set, standard stats.
Achievements
Unique weapon, standard stats.
Titles
Gem store currency so you can buy stuff from the gem store just by playing this content and earning currency.

Make it worth it and I will do it.