Guild Wars 2

I personally find the changes that were just made to the hero panel remarkably confusing.
They contain the exact same information that they did before, the only difference is that we can no longer see the words unless we hover the icon.

Icons can be a great replacement for words and can often make an interface look less bulky. But there are times when words are much much better. You’re presenting data to players and they need to be able to quickly and easily look at multiple numbers and understand exactly what they mean. The icons detract the ability to do that.

I don’t understand the thought process by which a whole bunch of icons is supposedly better at communicating the concepts and making the interface less confusing? It really was less confusing beforehand. If I suddenly decide I want to know how much power my character has and what his attack power is I should be able to open up the hero panel and look and say “ok so thats the attack and thats the power”. I don’t want to look at it and think “oh darn, now I have to hover over these to figure out what each one is and how it related to the others”.

Please please change it back >.> -cries-

I can agree on this. All they did was make things more anoyign for people who are number crunching.

The stat section itself is rather small by mmo standards.
I’d put it on a tab on the right side similar to the equipment in your inventory ont he left and use the full length of the hero panel.

Everything should be viewable, with words, at a glance. Requiring mousing over of our stat window is rather rediculous. It should never have been made into a tooltip based design. It looks clunky rather than user friendly.

Why change that which (in my opinion) wasn’t broken in the first place?

I completely agree – please bring the words back. Some people do much better with words than with symbols. I appreciate more information being there, but could you please at least make it an option?

This is the same thing that happened to Gmail… everyone thinks that symbols are better, but when we get an overload of symbols they become meaningless. To be perfectly honest I’m still trying to learn the boons/conditions ones. That bit about some people being word people? Well I’m definitely one of them.

Having to scroll over that stuff in the hero panel is just clunky, as Runiir said.

I think the new layout looks stupid, out of place, very cluttered and more confusing than the one we had. This should have been implemented as checkbox under Options in my opinion so people could decide if they wanted to use the new one or keep the old one.

actually, i just looked over it. i like it. as jeffrey said, once you get used to the icons (most of which should be well-familiar by now), it’s easier and better presented, imho. thanks guys!

Agony Res and Toughness icons are the same. Come on guys, grab that pen…

I just took a look at the new Hero tab and I really like it. The data is cleaner and there is a whole lot more there to see. It makes checking my gear and traits much easier. I can see each of the various stats. Good job.

“making an intuitive change to a complex system will inevitably leave the system worse off”

Is a concept from urban design studies over 40 years ago that informed system engineers / software designers have embraced. Along with the use of focus groups.

Several changes regarding this patch seemed to have by-passed those two concepts.

The change to the hero panel appears to be another.

I’m curious why ANet seemed to think this was a good change.

Have they checked with the garment industry on the effectiveness of international symbols?

Well, the words are still there on mouseover. I’m more puzzled over the fact that Anet didn’t add Magic Find in those stats.

anotherdream.4702:

Well, the words are still there on mouseover. I’m more puzzled over the fact that Anet didn’t add Magic Find in those stats.

It should not require a mousover, if anything the SYMBOL should be the mousover addition. There is no intuitiveness here, just a clunky feel to it all.

can someone take a screenie for those stuck at work? thanks

Runiir.6425:

[…]

It should not require a mousover, if anything the SYMBOL should be the mousover addition. There is no intuitiveness here, just a clunky feel to it all.

Then what’s the point of the symbol?
The stat icons exist so you can quickly show a stat in a small room, without the long names like “Healing power” or “Condition Duration”.
They are the same icons used in traits, so having them there will help you picking traits points. You’ll get used to the icons, and recognize them in the traits panel.

I find it way more comfortable, as I can see all the numbers at the same time, instead having to hover to see the stats.

The trinkets and underwater weapon are a bit cluttered down there now, though.

I guess I’m just old and grumpy, it sometimes takes time to adapt to new things. That said, I liked the old interface better, but may very well change opinion on that later on!

;)

Jeffrey Vaughn.1793:

Where would you put the text? (And keep in mind that you need to allow for other languages.) Once you learn the new icons I don’t think that you’ll have any difficulty with number crunching. (There’s MORE info available now than there used to be.)

I’m not a game designer so I’m not really equipped with the necessarily knowledge to tell you where exactly everything should go. All I can tell you is that icons are extremely confusing.
There is a reason why when people are working with databases or spreadsheets there is a combination between numbers and letters. Numbers and letters and ingrained into our brains, they’re something we’ve all worked with since we were small children and they make a lot of sense together.

Icons are great at presenting an idea or as a broad indication of function, but they’re not a substitute for the immediate understanding that comes with a word. If I look at a shield icon with some numbers next to it, yes I get a general understanding of what those numbers represent but I don’t know they represent the effectiveness of my armour, my characters toughness or resistance to something else.

So yes, over time myself and others will adjust and get used to the symbols. But in an MMO where you want things to be as unconfusing for players both old and new alike asking them to memorize and identify with symbols isn’t the best way to get them to understand their stats.

As for solutions, obviously I’m not familiar with the limitations of the system or with all of the discussion and analysis that has already been put into it but the UI window and the text is actually rather large as it is. I would have no problems with the text being scaled down or with a new Tab put into the hero panel. (Side note, it would be really great to be able to access the panels with keybindings e.g. pressing K to bring up the skills panel, rather than pressing H then having to click the skills tab).

Also someone else pointed out that they’re the same icons used in the traits panel, icons which every time I’m looking at traits I have to mouseover since in the trait panel there are I think 10 different icons. If there were only 5-6 stats then I would probably be fine with icons because it would be relatively easy to pick up on their meanings, but with so many it just becomes a confusing jumble. With a word you only have to look at it once to know EXACTLY what it means and you are therefore immediately enlightened as to the purpose and function of the numerical value sitting next to it.

Obviously this is just one opinion though as with others commenting it is obvious that there are those who both like and dislike the new stat UI (oh wow what a shocker, people have different opinions! xD)

Well, the disadvantage of text is that if you put too much stacked, then it is hard to read and becomes cluttered. They expanded the info display, so if they tried the same with text, it’d be just hard to read and separate rows.

Imagine the IPad and all the apps it has. Icons are much easier to use when there is a lot of things. Also, that’s why Windows 7-8 uses icons for its task bar instead of having full text in the taskbar.

kenshinakh.3672:

Well, the disadvantage of text is that if you put too much stacked, then it is hard to read and becomes cluttered. They expanded the info display, so if they tried the same with text, it’d be just hard to read and separate rows.

Imagine the IPad and all the apps it has. Icons are much easier to use when there is a lot of things. Also, that’s why Windows 7-8 uses icons for its task bar instead of having full text in the taskbar.

But in all of those situations an Icon is representing a program rather than a concept that relates to numbers. If you show me the google chrome logo then yes I know if I click that it will open google chrome. but it isn’t representing something with numbers.
Icons only limit clutter if they’re there on their own. When you have icons with very different numbers next to them in multiple rows it just gets confusing.
(I also feel it’s important to point out that on an iPad you have both the icon and what it represents underneath the icon.)
Actually if you wanted to take a cue from apple that might be the way to go. Have the text very very small underneath the icon. That does however just produce more clutter and you only need two, not all three.

1) Move the Accessories in a vertical line to the right of the character image instead of a block below the Attributes.
2) Move the Underwater gear in a vertical next to the Terrestrial gear.
3) Make a single vertical line of Attributes with the verbal descriptions to the left and the values to the right.

Done.

That’s true, but I’m actually pretty okay with the design. Now I don’t have to scroll over my stats to see the extra stats like condition duration or critical damage bonus.

It did take some time to remember the icons, but it’s pretty easy after.

I don’t think having text under the icons would be good though. It would be too small and strain your eyes.

Yeah, like you said, it’s all opinions though. When I first showed this to my brother, he said “Woah, it’s a lot cleaner and nicer”. So he’s fine with it lol. I took some time to adapt (like 5 minutes), but nothing too hard.

I really don’t mind the changes, I just find it weird we can’t see Magic Find stats in that huge window :p (Which I was hoping I could see at least)

I am OK with change. Evolve or die, right? But this is seems to be over simplifying the data. Create a TOGGLE that would allow two different views. Advanced or Simplified. That would satisfy the majority of the people out there. Personally I rather liked the way it was and had grown accustomed and expected it.

I like the new UI and will learn it as fast as any other UI I learned when I started playing. I’m glad I can now see condition duration.
I wonder if an option to show 2-letter abbreviations instead of icons might help?
Po = Power, Pr = Precision, CD = Condition Damage, Cu = Condition Duration, etc etc. The specifics aren’t what’s important.

Also, a dividing line:

between the Primary stats and the rest.

I’m rather surprised that not ALL the stats are represented… Magic Find – why does Anet hate Magic Find or not want us to know what it is/does? Seriously.

There are some things that you just can’t do when you have to accommodate for multiple languages, you are all forgetting this part. If they leave all the words and descriptions, that window has to scale to accommodate languages that have shorter or longer descriptions or they have to choose words that may or may not be perfect for that description. By putting it into a tooltip, it alleviates that issue completely and Iconic representation of a data set like this is valid in gaming. It’s been done in every game, sometimes it’s not even an icon but a color:
red = health, green = energy, blue/purple = mana/magic
a bullet = how many rounds you have out of a total amount 9/40

However, there are duplicate icons that are only differentiated by a shape surrounding it. See all of those crossed swords? that’s dumb.
Condition Damage? blood drop icon.
Power in the human world of Earth is easily equated to an electric bolt (lightning icon)
Attack should have been a single sword icon.
They should have ordered them better as well.
Precision + Critical Chance + Critical Damage kind of go together but Critical Damage is way down at the bottom.

Similar things should be grouped together and labeled:
Offense:
Power Precision Critical Chance, Critical Damage, Condition Damage, Condition Duration.
Defense:
Health, Vitality, Healing Power, Life Force Pool, Armor, Toughness, Boon Duration, Agony Resistance

In that order based on profession (that was necromancer). Oh, and Magic Find… wth is it not in there? I have an extra spot for it…
Put all of the info next to my armor and weapons section and move the character preview to the right and make it so I can resize this window. I know you don’t like flexible layouts, but get with the times. Oh, and an action stance button for preview. And while we’re talking preview, put a background on the regular item preview window, as it is it doesn’t show special effects because there’s no background for it.

However, I do feel that their reliance on UI/UX designers that inhibit their own creativity with static layouts is a bad decision these days.

screenshot 1, gw2
screenshot 2, shaiya – full blown nexon korea mmo (they’ve fixed some things since last I played a couple years ago but it still sucks lol)

Why is the number in the tooltip when hovering over a stat different from the stat itself? Which one is true?

I’m fine with the change, but I didn’t see anything wrong with the way it was before either. Kinda confused why this was a priority.

I really love this new hero panel it’s far more clear to read through.

I have two small problems.

First, magic find is missing(very small).

Second is I cannot see my character’s base stats when they are leveled up or down. You could put this info into the tool tip box when hovering over the icons.

There’s also a nice space in the lower right corner begging to be filled with the magic find stats.

Your base stats are shown when you mouse over it. So really the only thing WRONG about it is the lack of the magic find stat. Magic find was also missing on it before. That’s another part that’s confusing me. Why change it if you aren’t going to add the only missing stat?
Ah well…They didn’t take any of the info away so it’s not a big deal to me. Just don’t know why they bothered.

Jeffrey Vaughn.1793:

Where would you put the text? (And keep in mind that you need to allow for other languages.) Once you learn the new icons I don’t think that you’ll have any difficulty with number crunching. (There’s MORE info available now than there used to be.)

i agree 110% =)