So I just spent about 3 gold upgrading, only to all of a sudden get outmanned buff out of nowhere. And have a zerg run over that 3 gold like nothing.
Well, officially I don’t see any reason to upgrade anymore, because this has happened numerous times. I get zero for doing this, I don’t get jack for running yaks. So what’s the point? Where are my efforts going? I really don’t see any reason to spend my gold anymore to help upgrade when it just gets lost almost instantly.
For all of us people spending our money to help out, and do the most boring job ever that needs to be done. Upgrading and building seige in keeps. We deserve a reward for our efforts. I really feel like people think this just happens on it’s own. We get zero credit, and zero reward. And frankly, I’m losing interest. May as well just follow the zerg and get kills and karma, and exp, and money, and badges.
I kinda get this. I spend a good chunk of my time in WvW running supply for upkeep and siege …. While others are out in the Zerg getting karma and loot. These upkeep jobs are indeed pretty thankless that way, but are appreciated by your teammates.
How I balance it is ill do a couple Zerg runs then head back to run supply so I am getting some reward … Not like those who are out there constantly … But then they’re paying armour repair fees too.
I think more folks do need to realize that these towers and forts don’t magically spawn siege and reinforcement .., but I think that’s slowly being learned as I watch way more people pitching in than say I saw a month ago.
I think most people have come to the same conclusion. I’m usually one of the very few people that make supply runs to repair walls/gates, build siege weapons for defense, pay for upgrades, escort yaks, etc. But after watching the tower/keep I just got finished upgrading fall in the amount of time it takes to run to a supply camp and back, I’ve almost given up on even trying to fortify anymore. It’s a lost cause.
Folks should upgrade what they can afford if they can and move on.
lol ok, lets see everyone go with that mentality and NEVER EVER upgrade anything.
lv80 with skills fully unlocked, warrior, elementalist and engineer
lv80 Necromancer, all professional skills unlocked, working on the final norn elite skills.
I fully appreciate the OP’s stance. Here’s the solution we’ve come up with on the server I’m on.
When you want to purchase an upgrade, broadcast in team chat the upgrade you want to purchase, the cost, and ask for donations. The donations have to be more-or-less equally split among the donating players; no mailing 1 copper for a 75 silver upgrade, for example.
Only purchase the upgrade AFTER players send you donations. Do NOT purchase an upgrade in the absence of a donation; simple as that.
After one or two matches, people will have either gotten the hint that if they want their fortifications upgraded, they have to start pitching in, too, or they won’t. If the latter, then that gives you a pretty clear picture of your server community’s level of dedication to WvWvW (read: none). In which case, maybe it’s time to consider a server transfer.
Folks should upgrade what they can afford if they can and move on.
You made me laugh, ty for that :P
I stopped upgrading towers and such months ago.
I’m one of the few who dedicated themselves on defending keeps and towers and repairing them. I used to upgrade too, but not anymore.
Why would I do that? It’s not easy to earn money. I don’t farm money like others, I don’t have bots or such, I don’t have so much money too while some ppl having hundreds. Why would I spend my small amount of money for an upgrade?
I fully appreciate the OP’s stance. Here’s the solution we’ve come up with on the server I’m on.
When you want to purchase an upgrade, broadcast in team chat the upgrade you want to purchase, the cost, and ask for donations. The donations have to be more-or-less equally split among the donating players; no mailing 1 copper for a 75 silver upgrade, for example.
Only purchase the upgrade AFTER players send you donations. Do NOT purchase an upgrade in the absence of a donation; simple as that.
After one or two matches, people will have either gotten the hint that if they want their fortifications upgraded, they have to start pitching in, too, or they won’t. If the latter, then that gives you a pretty clear picture of your server community’s level of dedication to WvWvW (read: none). In which case, maybe it’s time to consider a server transfer.
I don’t see a future for this idea. I already used this way in early months of Gw2. In the beginning, ppl were sending money, but later they started not to spend their money for an upgrade… Btw, I don’t wanna beg ppl for money.
It would be great if upgrade purchases worked cooperatively so, for example, anyone could contribute to buying a 75S upgrade and get an gold/silver/bronze event reward relative to their contribution when the upgrade completes.
Something like that would incentivize people to buy it as a way to “buy” karma & xp (even better if outmanned) and keep them invested in the objective point and staying in the map.
There’d have to a minimum contribution amount or else everyone would donate 1C.
I agree that it’s hard for any single player to justify the cost of upgrading towers/keeps, but there are cheaper options (from 10s) available upgrading supply camps.
My recommendation is to join a WvW guild in order to enjoy WvW fully. In my guild, we recommend donations into the guild bank to help fund our siege and upgrade efforts, because let’s be honest: playing WvW is an extremely large goldsink as a guild.
The upgrades on towers/keeps are done by officers within the guild using the guild bank, meaning that the lower members do not have an obligation to go around spending their gold fortifying structures. This also allows officer discretion on which towers/keeps to fortify, and with their commander tags it allows them to rally troops in defence of said structure.
I fully appreciate the OP’s stance. Here’s the solution we’ve come up with on the server I’m on.
When you want to purchase an upgrade, broadcast in team chat the upgrade you want to purchase, the cost, and ask for donations. The donations have to be more-or-less equally split among the donating players; no mailing 1 copper for a 75 silver upgrade, for example.
Only purchase the upgrade AFTER players send you donations. Do NOT purchase an upgrade in the absence of a donation; simple as that.
After one or two matches, people will have either gotten the hint that if they want their fortifications upgraded, they have to start pitching in, too, or they won’t. If the latter, then that gives you a pretty clear picture of your server community’s level of dedication to WvWvW (read: none). In which case, maybe it’s time to consider a server transfer.
I don’t see a future for this idea. I already used this way in early months of Gw2. In the beginning, ppl were sending money, but later they started not to spend their money for an upgrade… Btw, I don’t wanna beg ppl for money.
Perhaps there’s no future for it on the server on which you play. That doesn’t mean that applies to all servers. This system works quite well on the server I’m on and we have no shortage of players willing to pitch in and upgrade our most critical fortifications to the max within the first few hours of a reset. We’ve even begun to formalize it through a system in which guilds volunteer to share responsibility for rotating claiming (so that we can maintain perma-guild buffs), upgrading, and purchase of siege defenses for our fortifications.
It’s not begging; it’s realizing that everyone pitching in helps the server’s efforts as a whole. There’s either that kind of dedication to the community on your server or there isn’t. If that kind of server pride doesn’t exist on your chosen world, then consider a transfer if the WvWvW aspect of the game is important to you.
I say make upgrades actually use crafting. Less cost, makes crafting worth something, adds a new dimension to WvW, can take some of the over abundance of supplies of the trading post, and can let many people contribute. Each component of ‘strong stone’ adds a percentage to wall upgrade.
For towers, the only important upgrade is the gate.
For keeps, gate and waypoint. Fortify if you feel like it.
Everything else is fluff. Most of the time you’re better off spending money and supply on placing preemptive defensive siege.
Destroying the wall is easier than gate…
Unupgraded gates can get rushed in a minute without any issue whatsoever. Walls take a bit longer.
The purpose of the upgrades is to give your forces enough time to defend. And gates, without question, go down the fastest. Which is why that upgrade is by far the most important.
But I do agree, I upgraded SM numerous times only to be lost by a pug commander when I was away.
Ya the reward is helping the server we all get that, but the ops point is he is tired of helping a helpless server population for the most part. His point is that the people who are doing this kind of helping are a minority and the majority are along a free ride and take it for granted and essentially do nothing besides zerg which maybe fail.
Another point is fortifications are easier to attack than they are to defend, when compounded with insufficient numbers and siege for defense the upgrades are useless. There are exceptions to this of course in where the attackers are noobs and the defenders are competent but generally speaking here don’t waste money upgrading if you don’t have enough people to defend and run supply and build.
All the other posts here are great, but the OPs point is everyone left him, so to the op you may want to take the advice of asking for contributions or find out if there are people that are going to stay or not before you upgrade something like that. Theres a lot of zerging that goes on in WvW where people just mindlessly zerg from one thing to the next and the thought never crosses their mind to defend anything.
I like the Idea of A-Net implementing some kind of reward system for upgrading.
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
I fully appreciate the OP’s stance. Here’s the solution we’ve come up with on the server I’m on.
When you want to purchase an upgrade, broadcast in team chat the upgrade you want to purchase, the cost, and ask for donations. The donations have to be more-or-less equally split among the donating players; no mailing 1 copper for a 75 silver upgrade, for example.
Only purchase the upgrade AFTER players send you donations. Do NOT purchase an upgrade in the absence of a donation; simple as that.
After one or two matches, people will have either gotten the hint that if they want their fortifications upgraded, they have to start pitching in, too, or they won’t. If the latter, then that gives you a pretty clear picture of your server community’s level of dedication to WvWvW (read: none). In which case, maybe it’s time to consider a server transfer.
I don’t see a future for this idea. I already used this way in early months of Gw2. In the beginning, ppl were sending money, but later they started not to spend their money for an upgrade… Btw, I don’t wanna beg ppl for money.
Perhaps there’s no future for it on the server on which you play. That doesn’t mean that applies to all servers. This system works quite well on the server I’m on and we have no shortage of players willing to pitch in and upgrade our most critical fortifications to the max within the first few hours of a reset. We’ve even begun to formalize it through a system in which guilds volunteer to share responsibility for rotating claiming (so that we can maintain perma-guild buffs), upgrading, and purchase of siege defenses for our fortifications.
It’s not begging; it’s realizing that everyone pitching in helps the server’s efforts as a whole. There’s either that kind of dedication to the community on your server or there isn’t. If that kind of server pride doesn’t exist on your chosen world, then consider a transfer if the WvWvW aspect of the game is important to you.
It works for now, but what about future? What about other servers? What if you are outmanned and there is nobody who can donate you around?
Please be realistic. You can’t rely on donation…
Upgrades are a force multiplier, not a force replacement. You don’t complain if you build 30 arrow carts and get overrun when you only have 10 defenders, why complain when you buy a bunch of expensive upgrades and get overrun when nobody is there to actually defend?
I don’t see why WvW is the game’s gold sink at all. It should be like holding the smaller points and supply camps. The more players standing in the circle for a certain time the higher upgrades you get. That would get players to actually work together and want to defend points. Defense rewards are also too small.
The idea that individual players should basically throw away personal gold on upgrades is silly, and discourages participation.
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
I have said this many times in these forum, but apparently Anet simply doesn’t care.
There is no real reward for a guild to claim and try to hold any point on the WvW maps. Until this changes the zergheads will rule the WvW game, particularly in the lower brackets, because there is no reward for them to do anything else.
My posts are facts as I know them, or my own opinion, and do not represent any guild.
Upgrades are a force multiplier, not a force replacement. You don’t complain if you build 30 arrow carts and get overrun when you only have 10 defenders…
Actually I complain loudly and bitterly about exactly that because I make a point to advertise that any fort I own has plenty of toys for people to play with. These days I’m down to building 3 arrow carts in Veloka, and guess what? …
The zergheads just gotta zerg until it becomes painful that they can’t take anything else, and by then they have usually been drawn so well out of place that they can’t provide any meaningful defense.
My posts are facts as I know them, or my own opinion, and do not represent any guild.
I don’t see why WvW is the game’s gold sink at all. It should be like holding the smaller points and supply camps. The more players standing in the circle for a certain time the higher upgrades you get. That would get players to actually work together and want to defend points. Defense rewards are also too small.
The idea that individual players should basically throw away personal gold on upgrades is silly, and discourages participation.
If you’re not a T1 server with night coverage there’s no reason to full upgrade anything – ever. Reinforced walls/gates for towers/keeps are just to delay attackers giving you time to rush to the defense. Siege is better than most of the upgrades.
Double yaks is the only thing worth getting for camps.
The problem is by the time you actually upgrade a keep… you’re logging off. All those upgrades do is annoy the PvDoor crowd that wipes your map at night.
Folks should upgrade what they can afford if they can and move on.
lol ok, lets see everyone go with that mentality and NEVER EVER upgrade anything.
That is EXACTLY what will happen as the game goes on. People are going to quit upgrading unless they make some changes
You have to spend a ridiculous amount of coin to have any chance to defend against a large zerg. And it all becomes useless you have some really dedicated players who like to defend. And those sort of players seem to be becoming more rare every day. Why defend when you can just ride the karma train instead?
I rarely waste my coin on upgrades anymore. If you think it is fine as it is…well you keep right on wasting yours.
A fully upgraded tower/keep with lots of siege should be a scary thing to attack even for a large 60+ zerg. But right now it is not. Might slow them a little but that is about it.
Honestly, I think the solution is to leverage guilds, to give them a real sense of ownership over a tower/keep/supply camp/etc. As it currently stands, there’s little reason for guilds to claim locations. Unless they’re running Art of War buffs (which affect everyone, and are not exclusive to guild members) there’s no benefit in claiming anything.
Make guild claims meaningful and you’ll find guilds wanting to upgrade and defend things in WvW because there’s actual benefits to keeping things instead of just letting them flip.
I completely agree there should be rewards for upgrading. However, I dont have it bad like the OP.
On our server, I have plenty of people willing to donate for upgrades, spending up to 15g within 3 days of reset night. This is mainly because we have dedicated scouts on our upgrading(ed) objectives. For instance, after CDS claimed Bay Keep we had 2 people to escort each yak, a scout running along walls, and a scout hiding between briar tower and bay south. I feel sorry for the OP people abandoned him so quickly, I suggest finding the right WvW guild for you where order is maintained, and tasks rotated and delegated to ensure everyone gets the same amount of scouting hours/attacking rewards.
Commander Miasmic Spiritsong
Leader of Caedas [CDS] : caedas.enjin.com
Sanctum Of Rall
I think the upgrades should just be free. It’s not like we make tons of gold in wvw anyway. Let the siege be the gold sink. Would give more reason to defend if it’s actually being upgraded. If people don’t have the cash to upgrade they’re going to move on. If they can upgrade it they may stick around to help it finish.
Upgrades generally serve only one task – they HELP defend objectives. If you cannot bring sufficient number of defenders, or call reliable help – you generally waste your money. So check map situation and act accordingly. Upgrading towers near your respawn generally worth it (keep worth it aswell, but costs alot and they very demanding to stable supply flow), upgrading nearby supply camps also helps alot (but usually only “supply delivery amount” upgrade are really important). For other map objectives, you better ask map commander or simply donate money to him. Otherwise, you better spend your money on siege blueprints, good placed arrowcart/cata/ballysta often can defend your objective alot better and longer then most upgrades.
From what I’ve seen some siege strikes do, upgrading is a must if you actually want to keep what you take. Having an upgraded Keep and Garrison with a warp point is invaluable in the borderlands. Of course, one should always be mindful of how well they can defend what’s being upgraded.
You shouldn’t have to farm forever or spend real money to participate in every single aspect of this game. Large sums of money to upgrade towers/keeps/castle is poor game design just like paid tournaments are. The way it should work is towers/keeps/castle start upgrading automatically once you capture them applying upgrades in a specific order. The amount of time to complete upgrades could then be scaled depending on whether it is a tower, keep, or castle. This gives a server incentive to defend all towers they capture as they will all be upgrading as long as there is enough supply while removing the need for people to farm gold in PvE so that they can play WvW.
Here is part of what i sugested were you should get more for defending and the more upgraded a place is the better the reward should be to defend it and take it, and yes they cod have a Upgrade bank were players can put money in and then the officers that own Supply camp, Tower, Keep can use to upgrade with.
Dont think anyone should be able to use coin from a bank like that, then you will get way to much that simple mess around and spend the coin on kitten.
I don’t see why WvW is the game’s gold sink at all. It should be like holding the smaller points and supply camps. The more players standing in the circle for a certain time the higher upgrades you get. That would get players to actually work together and want to defend points. Defense rewards are also too small.
The idea that individual players should basically throw away personal gold on upgrades is silly, and discourages participation.
great idea
this needs to be put in as a suggestion – obviously the upgrades would still require supplies
I hate the fact that there’s no rewards for upgrading, I spent 10g this week alone upgrading a keep I claimed twice and finishing upgrades on stuff that other guilds had claimed and abandoned either to go to bed or they hadn’t even bothered with upgrades at all.
I was lucky however because I was in a total rage last night and stated my dislike for guilds that claimed without upgrading and got a 5g donation
Tortun – Protector of Gandara and Bessie!
WvWvW Player Who Doesn’t Have Much of A Clue
I don’t see why WvW is the game’s gold sink at all. It should be like holding the smaller points and supply camps. The more players standing in the circle for a certain time the higher upgrades you get. That would get players to actually work together and want to defend points. Defense rewards are also too small.
The idea that individual players should basically throw away personal gold on upgrades is silly, and discourages participation.
great idea
this needs to be put in as a suggestion – obviously the upgrades would still require supplies
Glad people are liking my idea
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
Personally, I thought of a way to donate to certain upgrades, instead of paying everything yourself. A donation you can choose yourself.
And when enough money has been donated for the specific upgrade, then it’ll start. That way, one player doesn’t need to stand with a bill of 2 gold, because he/she/it felt like upgrading the Stonemist Castle Fortified Castle upgrade.
