Guild Wars 2

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Kaimick.5109:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Dasorine.1964:

if dps and speed of kills is all thats important Im assuming everyone complaining about MF are 100b warriors?

If not then just like MF you need to be forced to change because DPS = everything yes?!

And as is normal with these threads, somehow the supporters of the selfish stat come to the conclusion that anti-MF want dps only.
Let me put it simply: You will, no matter what you do, be better in combat with Berserker’s or Knight’s rather than Explorer’s. It may not be the best idea to be dps, but if you’re going to use a dps set, you can and will do better with Berserker’s.
Every other stat combination has some conceivable combat advantage over another combination, making them sidegrades to each other to some degree. But Explorer’s is strictly worse than Knight’s or Berserker’s.

Again with the lack of ability to realize just cause there is better stats doesn’t mean that someone can’t be successful, just because they don’t kill something 30 seconds faster, oh my what will you do.

Do your self a favor realize one thing

These Paranoia threads have been going since MF has been released, and yet Arena Net keeps putting MF in the game. If it was truly a problem we would see a thread with over 250k people yelling about how it is affecting their game. Yet there isn’t, yet Arena Net has yet to pull it out of the game, when it becomes an problem… and a true problem not a problem to elitist players like your self it will be removed. Sure players that use it are selfish, but players like you are just as selfish for trying to get players to play the way you want, when the solution is simple

• go to gw2lfg.com
• put in your lfg – GLF2M no MF all 80 in all exotic knights or serker gear, all gear must be pinged before we start are we kick you from group.
• go play have fun

No instead of playing the way you want you are trying to force others to conform to your play style. How Necrotic can you be? LOL enjoy your long waits for dungeons, while us people that don’t care about MF be it less efficient than your party will still finish with no issues.

When did I ever say that you can’t be successful without maxed out stats?
I said that you are irrefutably better when you’re using irrefutably better stats.
And when no one in the group benefits from the intentionally lowered stat but the person with the lowered stats, then this person is making their party weaker for purely selfish reasons.

Also you don’t seem to understand that if something is a terrible idea but no one points it out to devs they aren’t going to fix their terrible idea. So, making noise about terrible ideas until it’s fixed may actually accomplish something.

You did you might not out right say it but you did.

Who cares if your finishing the dungeon that is all that matters, and that is all that should matter to you. It shouldn’t matter what gear he is in, follow my suggestion, you don’t think the Dev’s know about your puny QQ about MF it has been going on from the same players for the past 3 months. They obviously don’t care, get over it make your specialized groups end of story nothing more to say

but that arguement could be used by anyone that doesnt approve of anything but the most efficient farm.

People stacking toughness? selfish because that doesn’t help them do anymore damage, doubly so if they aren’t actually getting hit at all etc etc

If anything that wasn’t the most efficient way to farm was changed or removed we would have nothing but warrior.

The fact that unless they tell you (and even then they could just troll) they are using MF gear theres no way to know, so it comes down to you beleiving your gameplay is being massively effected by something you can’t even be sure of.

So just no your a hypocritical kitten that believes anything that you don’t personally gain from should be changed or removed for your personal gain, you are thousands of times worse than anyone that wears magic find gear simply because your TRYING to actively control what other people do rather than just slightly slowing down the rate of a dungeon group (if that, people in full zerker doesn’t guarantee a faster run than people in MF)

Kaimick.5109:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Kaimick.5109:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Dasorine.1964:

if dps and speed of kills is all thats important Im assuming everyone complaining about MF are 100b warriors?

If not then just like MF you need to be forced to change because DPS = everything yes?!

And as is normal with these threads, somehow the supporters of the selfish stat come to the conclusion that anti-MF want dps only.
Let me put it simply: You will, no matter what you do, be better in combat with Berserker’s or Knight’s rather than Explorer’s. It may not be the best idea to be dps, but if you’re going to use a dps set, you can and will do better with Berserker’s.
Every other stat combination has some conceivable combat advantage over another combination, making them sidegrades to each other to some degree. But Explorer’s is strictly worse than Knight’s or Berserker’s.

Again with the lack of ability to realize just cause there is better stats doesn’t mean that someone can’t be successful, just because they don’t kill something 30 seconds faster, oh my what will you do.

Do your self a favor realize one thing

These Paranoia threads have been going since MF has been released, and yet Arena Net keeps putting MF in the game. If it was truly a problem we would see a thread with over 250k people yelling about how it is affecting their game. Yet there isn’t, yet Arena Net has yet to pull it out of the game, when it becomes an problem… and a true problem not a problem to elitist players like your self it will be removed. Sure players that use it are selfish, but players like you are just as selfish for trying to get players to play the way you want, when the solution is simple

• go to gw2lfg.com
• put in your lfg – GLF2M no MF all 80 in all exotic knights or serker gear, all gear must be pinged before we start are we kick you from group.
• go play have fun

No instead of playing the way you want you are trying to force others to conform to your play style. How Necrotic can you be? LOL enjoy your long waits for dungeons, while us people that don’t care about MF be it less efficient than your party will still finish with no issues.

When did I ever say that you can’t be successful without maxed out stats?
I said that you are irrefutably better when you’re using irrefutably better stats.
And when no one in the group benefits from the intentionally lowered stat but the person with the lowered stats, then this person is making their party weaker for purely selfish reasons.

Also you don’t seem to understand that if something is a terrible idea but no one points it out to devs they aren’t going to fix their terrible idea. So, making noise about terrible ideas until it’s fixed may actually accomplish something.

You did you might not out right say it but you did.

Who cares if your finishing the dungeon that is all that matters, and that is all that should matter to you. It shouldn’t matter what gear he is in, follow my suggestion, you don’t think the Dev’s know about your puny QQ about MF it has been going on from the same players for the past 3 months. They obviously don’t care, get over it make your specialized groups end of story nothing more to say

And you don’t outright say stats make zero difference but you clearly mean that.

I care that people will at least put forward good effort. If someone is intentionally nerfing themselves, and therefore their group, because they’re a selfish kitten who wants more money, I have a problem with that.
Plus, when the existence of the selfish stat means everyone’s drops are kitten, removing it will let them make everyone’s drops better.

Dasorine.1964:

but that arguement could be used by anyone that doesnt approve of anything but the most efficient farm.

People stacking toughness? selfish because that doesn’t help them do anymore damage, doubly so if they aren’t actually getting hit at all etc etc

If anything that wasn’t the most efficient way to farm was changed or removed we would have nothing but warrior.

The fact that unless they tell you (and even then they could just troll) they are using MF gear theres no way to know, so it comes down to you beleiving your gameplay is being massively effected by something you can’t even be sure of.

So just no your a hypocritical kitten that believes anything that you don’t personally gain from should be changed or removed for your personal gain, you are thousands of times worse than anyone that wears magic find gear simply because your TRYING to actively control what other people do rather than just slightly slowing down the rate of a dungeon group (if that, people in full zerker doesn’t guarantee a faster run than people in MF)

If they stack toughness, they’re less likely to die, and need less healing, meaning they can spend time dealing damage or other useful things. It has conceivable value. Explorer’s vs Berserker’s has no conceivable value, as it is strictly worse.

Oh, and everyone running Berserker’s WILL be faster than those same people running Explorer’s. More damage means enemies die faster, which means you take less time. And again, since there’s no other stats of any value on Explorer’s, unlike other stat combinations, there’s no sidegrade information to take into account.

only if they apply the same effort as those in MF, what if that person in full zerker is using only support utilities and weapon? what if they don’t avoid attacks the person in MF do?

They will end up doing less than someone in MF who knows what they are doing will do.

And stacking toughness doesn’t help people who don’t get hit survived so if they are long range and know how to dodge the big attacks how is it helping?

Your just a kitten selfish hypocrit simple as.

Dasorine.1964:

only if they apply the same effort as those in MF, what if that person in full zerker is using only support utilities and weapon? what if they don’t avoid attacks the person in MF do?

They will end up doing less than someone in MF who knows what they are doing will do.

And stacking toughness doesn’t help people who don’t get hit survived so if they are long range and know how to dodge the big attacks how is it helping?

Your just a kitten selfish hypocrit simple as.

So your only defense is to come up with situations where better players are using worse gear and compare it to worse players with better gear.
You realize that in order to get any comparative power, you must eliminate variables other than what you’re comparing, right?
Meaning, you take a player with Explorer’s, and compare it to that same player in Berserker’s. Suddenly, this person does better. Because they aren’t wasting their stats on something that does absolutely nothing to help them fight.

And you don’t appear to know what the word “conceivable” means. Yes, someone who never gets hit gets no value out of Toughness. However, if they ARE hit, they get value out of it, and there are many other situations where you can expect to be hit, in which case Toughness will help you. But there is no situation where MF will help you fight (and don’t bring up Giver’s, because that’s for Boon Duration, which is only available on that stat combination. If there was another that had something useful instead of the MF then the same argument could be brought up there) and does not provide anything to the party except for the user, which makes it selfish.

my arguement is if MF is so bad then what do you want to do about people that don’t build in ways you feel is most effective? or people that aren’t as good?

If magic find is so bad then these other things people can do that can lower their potential much much more should also be complained about yes? but no you complain JUST about mf you think its the only cause of problems and that it exclusively should be changed and that its the only thing that effects fighting and only fighting matters in the game.

And the whole fact that you think you should get to govern what other people do in of itself is a major issue.

Dasorine.1964:

my arguement is if MF is so bad then what do you want to do about people that don’t build in ways you feel is most effective? or people that aren’t as good?

If magic find is so bad then these other things people can do that can lower their potential much much more should also be complained about yes? but no you complain JUST about mf you think its the only cause of problems and that it exclusively should be changed and that its the only thing that effects fighting and only fighting matters in the game.

And the whole fact that you think you should get to govern what other people do in of itself is a major issue.

I complain about MF because MF users are intentionally making themselves worse.
Someone who’s not as good may not have the experience, which they can’t be faulted for. Someone without top of the line gear may not have the money for it, which they can’t be faulted for. Someone using suboptimal stat combinations may think it’s better, and are at the worst just idiots.
Someone who is making themselves worse for their own profit is a antisocial kitten more concerned with themselves than their group. Where other faults may be inexperience, ignorance, or poverty, and can be forgiven, selfishness cannot.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Geotherma.2395:

And who says MF is selfish? Does not the rares those people get support the economy? Do the mats they sell on TP not support others? How about those who use MF to farm for gold and make events or support their guild? How selfish is a stat that allows people to support the very game they are playing. The only selfish person i see here is the people complaining that others “need to gear how I want them to gear”. Food for thought. MF is no more selfish that those geared for full DPS instead of group traits or group utilities.

If they didn’t have to balance drops around the existence of MF then everyone could have better drops instead.

I get plenty of drops with food mf only ^^. i see no reason why others can’t do the same. If I can make 3-5g an hour in orr with 30mf, people in dungeons should have the right to use MF gear to get the same from what they find fun in game.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Where other faults may be inexperience, ignorance, or poverty, and can be forgiven, selfishness cannot.

which is why you and the others who think they for some reason get to call on how people play a game cannot be forgiven.

If you don’t want to team with MF don’t team with them but you don’t get to decide how they can or can’t play attempting to do so is way more selfish.

I love how the argument makes it seem as though people in MF gear have only MF stats. People do realize there are other stats on MF gear… The elitism is strong here. Runes and sigils as well.

Dasorine.1964:

which is why you and the others who think they for some reason get to call on how people play a game cannot be forgiven.

So if someone is leeching in the truest sense of the word, doing nothing, are you not allowed to place blame on them? Are you not allowed to take issue with that?
How is that particularly different than someone intentionally doing worse to gain more? This nonmoving leecher is doing nothing (making their group worse) in order to gain more than they deserve (which is nothing, as they did nothing).

Don’t claim that there is no line where you’re allowed to have a problem with someone else. There is one. Disagree where that line is, sure, but there is a line.

because there not leeching, they are still participating in the battle they are still playing there not just standing around or laying dead, sure they are not the most effective they could be but unless I specifically set up a group to be so why should I care?

Its not stopping me playing, not stopping me having fun playing my character and the content still gets done.

Sure theres a line, but just because theres a line doesn’t mean you get the right to alter the entire game and many many peoples set ups because of your own petty petty complaint.

Oh and for me, the line is people intentionally being harrasing and trying to ruin other people (may or may not even be myselfs) game time, which just so happens is what people complaining about something that in total makes not one bit of difference in a way that would change a lot of people gaming experience is.

Geotherma.2395:

I love how the argument makes it seem as though people in MF gear have only MF stats. People do realize there are other stats on MF gear… The elitism is strong here. Runes and sigils as well.

Yeah, and those non-MF stats are strictly less than Knight’s or Berserker’s.
Someone with MF sigil could’ve had a different stacking one that provides something useful, or have an on-switch, on-crit, flat bonus, blah blah that actually does something.
MF runes, arguably Pirate may be of some value (or REALLY stretching it, Noble) but the other MF runes are worse than other choices.

Though I am aware you weren’t talking about MF runes/sigils, it’s still inarguably less useful in combat to be using Explorer’s.

Dasorine.1964:

because there not leeching, they are still participating in the battle they are still playing there not just standing around or laying dead, sure they are not the most effective they could be but unless I specifically set up a group to be so why should I care?

Its not stopping me playing, not stopping me having fun playing my character and the content still gets done.

Sure theres a line, but just because theres a line doesn’t mean you get the right to alter the entire game and many many peoples set ups because of your own petty petty complaint.

Oh and for me, the line is people intentionally being harrasing and trying to ruin other people (may or may not even be myselfs) game time, which just so happens is what people complaining about something that in total makes not one bit of difference in a way that would change a lot of people gaming experience is.

And yet, as I said, in both cases they’re intentionally doing less in order to get rewarded. One’s doing nothing to get some reward, the other’s doing far less than they could in order to get more reward.

So are you wholly against any balance changes? Against anyone arguing that this or that should be changed? Because no matter what you do in balancing, it’s going to negatively affect someone. Even buffs, since they effectively nerf whatever the buffed ability is being used against.
Culling is being removed. It’s being removed because people complained about it, as it ruined their gameplay experience. However, permastealthing WvW thieves will be hit hard by this removal as they relied on it to stay alive. Portal bombing zergs aren’t invisible for a while afterward. Veil using zergs have less margin for error.This negatively affects them. Are these people thus unjustified in complaining about culling?

difference between balance changes and removing MF is that balance changes are done to things people can’t avoid simply by ignoring it and choosing their own teams.

Dasorine.1964:

difference between balance changes and removing MF is that balance changes are done to things people can’t avoid simply by ignoring it and choosing their own teams.

You have a point.
However, without inspect (I do NOT want inspect) you can’t tell if people are lying to you (since they can just ping different gear) if you even try, which prevents you from even being able to pug without having to deal with the problem.

And that still doesn’t change that everyone’s drops are even more kitten than they should be due to MF being in the game.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Dasorine.1964:

difference between balance changes and removing MF is that balance changes are done to things people can’t avoid simply by ignoring it and choosing their own teams.

You have a point.
However, without inspect (I do NOT want inspect) you can’t tell if people are lying to you (since they can just ping different gear) if you even try, which prevents you from even being able to pug without having to deal with the problem.

And that still doesn’t change that everyone’s drops are even more kitten than they should be due to MF being in the game.

How hard is it to restrict, sure they can ping you other gear. But in the end I promise you will never know the difference unless that person or player just sucks. Although that isn’t the gear that is the player.

Secondly everyone has their own loot table, the loot I get doesn’t affect what loot you get, I don’t know where you got that mis-conception but it is 100% wrong.

How can you compare Culling to MF, People had no choice with culling, but people have a choice with MF. Personally I have one character in all MF and when I use the GW2LFG.com I avoid elitist that require level 80 in x gear and a gear ping, I avoid them regardless of weather I am on my MF toon or not. My necro is better geared than 90% of the people I run with stacking at 45 AR with 3 infused and 6 ascended all with Ar+5 in them. Sitting in all Exotics not one piece of MF, My guild Mate has a Range in all MF gear at 45 Ar his Ascended pieces have MF on it. I have yet to see him even go down in a fractal since Fractal Lv. 28 and we are in fractal level 56 now. I have seen him Kite the boss while I res dead people and never die.

No One is denying the fact that someone in MF has less stats than someone in your Knights or Zerker gear, but what you seem to ignore is, people in magic find can still get the dungeon completed. The time doesn’t matter the end result is the same. If you as a player are worried about 5 minutes then make your own group, although as I said before Arena Net is adding more and more MF ascended pieces and at this point no one at Arena Net seems to have an issue, or even see it as a problem. Only players like you that are paranoid about a stat that never affects you, or rather should I say a stat you would never be able to tell affects you.

Get off your high horse and realize that trying to get something removed form the game because you and maybe 2000 other players out of 400k to 800k ( depending on if the recent Congruent player base is correct) doesn’t make this a game breaking issue. In the end to Arena Net it doesn’t matter how much more faster it is to not have it, all that matters is in the end a group of people in all MF can complete the same dungeon that the group that has no MF and in Knight and Zerker gear can.

In closing
[Lawered]

Krosslite.1950:

here is a statement made by an Anet employee at the end of another thread about the community:

Okay everybody, this argument is getting a bit circular now. What’s important is the following.

The forum population is not a majority, but does provide valuable feedback which we do take into account, along with feedback from other sources.
The silent majority is not all in-favor or against. Their opinions vary as much as any group of people’s opinions tend to.
They are players just like you. They voice their opinions by either playing or not playing.
Others not on the forums show their opinions on their personal blogs, fansites, twitter and facebook.
Everybody’s opinions are important and valuable.

I hope this clears some things up. I’m going to close this thread now. Please continue to provide us with feedback to help us to continue improving Guild Wars 2.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Forum-users-ARE-NOT-the-minority/first

Kaimick.5109:

Secondly everyone has their own loot table, the loot I get doesn’t affect what loot you get, I don’t know where you got that mis-conception but it is 100% wrong.

No, it is 100% correct.
Every single drop table is balanced to provide less drops due to the fact that many people will bring MF. If they didn’t, then there would be far more drops than they want when people do bring MF. So, in order to keep the average drops at what they intend, the loot tables are made kittentier for everyone to account for it.

Kaimick.5109:

Krosslite.1950:

here is a statement made by an Anet employee at the end of another thread about the community:

Okay everybody, this argument is getting a bit circular now. What’s important is the following.

The forum population is not a majority, but does provide valuable feedback which we do take into account, along with feedback from other sources.
The silent majority is not all in-favor or against. Their opinions vary as much as any group of people’s opinions tend to.
They are players just like you. They voice their opinions by either playing or not playing.
Others not on the forums show their opinions on their personal blogs, fansites, twitter and facebook.
Everybody’s opinions are important and valuable.

I hope this clears some things up. I’m going to close this thread now. Please continue to provide us with feedback to help us to continue improving Guild Wars 2.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Forum-users-ARE-NOT-the-minority/first

So your point in quoting this is…?
In fact, it rather supports the idea of posting this thread.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Kaimick.5109:

Secondly everyone has their own loot table, the loot I get doesn’t affect what loot you get, I don’t know where you got that mis-conception but it is 100% wrong.

No, it is 100% correct.
Every single drop table is balanced to provide less drops due to the fact that many people will bring MF. If they didn’t, then there would be far more drops than they want when people do bring MF. So, in order to keep the average drops at what they intend, the loot tables are made kittentier for everyone to account for it.

This made me lol. Time to check out other threads, this one ran its course.

Geotherma.2395:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Kaimick.5109:

Secondly everyone has their own loot table, the loot I get doesn’t affect what loot you get, I don’t know where you got that mis-conception but it is 100% wrong.

No, it is 100% correct.
Every single drop table is balanced to provide less drops due to the fact that many people will bring MF. If they didn’t, then there would be far more drops than they want when people do bring MF. So, in order to keep the average drops at what they intend, the loot tables are made kittentier for everyone to account for it.

This made me lol. Time to check out other threads, this one ran its course.

Really. That concept eludes you.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Geotherma.2395:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Kaimick.5109:

Secondly everyone has their own loot table, the loot I get doesn’t affect what loot you get, I don’t know where you got that mis-conception but it is 100% wrong.

No, it is 100% correct.
Every single drop table is balanced to provide less drops due to the fact that many people will bring MF. If they didn’t, then there would be far more drops than they want when people do bring MF. So, in order to keep the average drops at what they intend, the loot tables are made kittentier for everyone to account for it.

This made me lol. Time to check out other threads, this one ran its course.

Really. That concept eludes you.

You think arenanet programmed so that if a group of MF wearing people are doing a dungeon the loot is dropped? Is that what you’re saying?

I solo in orr, I don’t group. I make around 100g a week just farming alone with 30MF. Now tell me why you think people who stack MF are/should be punished if they want to get better drops in shorter time in a dungeon rather than farm like me.

Geotherma.2395:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Geotherma.2395:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Kaimick.5109:

Secondly everyone has their own loot table, the loot I get doesn’t affect what loot you get, I don’t know where you got that mis-conception but it is 100% wrong.

No, it is 100% correct.
Every single drop table is balanced to provide less drops due to the fact that many people will bring MF. If they didn’t, then there would be far more drops than they want when people do bring MF. So, in order to keep the average drops at what they intend, the loot tables are made kittentier for everyone to account for it.

This made me lol. Time to check out other threads, this one ran its course.

Really. That concept eludes you.

You think arenanet programmed so that if a group of MF wearing people are doing a dungeon the loot is dropped? Is that what you’re saying?

No, that’s not what I’m saying.
The entire GAME’S loot tables are lower to account for MF.
If you don’t want to bloat the economy with gold, you need effective gold sinks and you need to limit the gold being input. When people use MF, more gold is input, because they get more drops and more expensive drops (of which greens will mostly end up vendored). Because they need to cut down on gold input, and they put MF into the game, they must lower drop tables in order to compensate for some people raising them with MF.

Geotherma.2395:

Now tell me why you think people who stack MF are/should be punished if they want to get better drops in shorter time in a dungeon rather than farm like me.

Because unlike in Orr, you’re in a group, and you deciding that you want higher drops impedes your group. You’re wasting their time so you can get more money.
When solo farming, you are determining how your time is spent. In a group, you are controlling how everyone’s time is spent. Taking longer to kill things for higher drops is your business when alone, but it’s hindering your group when you’re with others.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Geotherma.2395:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Geotherma.2395:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Kaimick.5109:

Secondly everyone has their own loot table, the loot I get doesn’t affect what loot you get, I don’t know where you got that mis-conception but it is 100% wrong.

No, it is 100% correct.
Every single drop table is balanced to provide less drops due to the fact that many people will bring MF. If they didn’t, then there would be far more drops than they want when people do bring MF. So, in order to keep the average drops at what they intend, the loot tables are made kittentier for everyone to account for it.

This made me lol. Time to check out other threads, this one ran its course.

Really. That concept eludes you.

You think arenanet programmed so that if a group of MF wearing people are doing a dungeon the loot is dropped? Is that what you’re saying?

No, that’s not what I’m saying.
The entire GAME’S loot tables are lower to account for MF.
If you don’t want to bloat the economy with gold, you need effective gold sinks and you need to limit the gold being input. When people use MF, more gold is input, because they get more drops and more expensive drops (of which greens will mostly end up vendored). Because they need to cut down on gold input, and they put MF into the game, they must lower drop tables in order to compensate for some people raising them with MF.

Well they sure don’t feel lowered to me, in fact I used to make a lot less. I do vendor my greens and blues and whites. I think people should be able to play the game how they like, if someone wants to get better drops I feel they should be allowed to take the steps necessary to do so. I have no problem with an MF geared person, just as I have no problem with a full berserker geared person. If it is dungeons then they need to learn how to compensate for the stat difference, which I’ve seen they can. If it is farming they need to simply dodge and compensate for what they lack. I will have no problem raising a MF wearer who makes mistakes and dies in PvE, we don’t ever learn from giving up, and we surely don’t learn by listening to people tell us what to wear. Guild Wars 2 is about the freedom to choose, the freedom to be whatever style you want to be within the games limitations. You can at any time get around stats with skill so long as you have something to back it up.

Elitists will have you think the game needs to be played a certain way, the devs will reassure you that is untrue. This is not at trinity, this is not a gear based game. Those who think so or degrade others for their own opinions are simply ignorant and selfish themselves. I’d much rather read a post teaching people with green gear, with rare gear, with MF gear tricks to stay alive and be efficient in parties for everyone’s benefit. Than have to read the dribble that comes out of most peoples minds on these threads.

I have no problem with you or anyone voicing their opinions, but be very sure you are 100% clear to people that that’s exactly what it is. Because in no way does 1 person have the right to dictate others play-style. No one has the right to bully or harass others who play differently. the type of buffoonery that goes on in game where people mock others about gear is no different that flagrant racism. Instead of being unaccepting of others choices in game style, why not help them understand to be the best they can be with what the DO have. Rather than belittling people who aren’t like you, or who disagree with your style of play.

If you are doing your best to help a party in a dungeon wearing your MF then no one should feel anger towards you. If they can give you tips just as any other person would MF or not, then they should. One simple stat isn’t dropping your dungeon run time by and hour, I’d venture to say it is barely noticeable.

I can’t sit here and argue with every person on whats right or whats not, but clearly this is a never ending battle between the people who think they are right. What a senseless war that is to have indeed. I’ll sit back and keep an eye out for a thread that doesn’t demean anyone, and in fact intelligently schools people on how to be a positive member of a group while in MF or lesser rarity gear. Until then this thread is nothing but arguments, tantrums, and idealism’s dreamt up by people who cannot see others ways of thinking. That’s a story I don’t wish to continue reading.

Believe it or not, not everyone PUGs instances.

Some of us have regular instance groups.

Some of us have regular instance groups to run nothing but MF gear because we like challenging fights with good drops as opposed to fast grindy runs that burn us out in a month.

Run time isn’t the only metric by which efficiency or time well spent can be judged, however, I find it extremely selfish for anyone to crap all over the fun of other players by DEMANDING that a certain suffix is REMOVED FROM THE GAME or FUNDAMENTALLY ALTERED so that they won’t be personally inconvenienced on their ten minute faceroll warrior CoF runs.

The idea that a person in your PUG, by wearing MF, hurts the group in some way is fundamentally flawed. It’s hurting your run time at best, not your chances of completion. The players picked up off the floor would have been on the floor in zerkers or any other non-MF gear and you’d still be making sub-optimal runs because your teammates aren’t playing optimally.

PopeUrban.2578:

The idea that a person in your PUG, by wearing MF, hurts the group in some way is fundamentally flawed. It’s hurting your run time at best, not your chances of completion. The players picked up off the floor would have been on the floor in zerkers or any other non-MF gear and you’d still be making sub-optimal runs because your teammates aren’t playing optimally.

Actually, it does, because Berserker’s will have shorter fights. The shorter a fight is, the less chances you have to screw up, and the less easily you are worn down over time.
Berserker’s has better protection than Explorer’s by virtue of not having to fight as long.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

PopeUrban.2578:

The idea that a person in your PUG, by wearing MF, hurts the group in some way is fundamentally flawed. It’s hurting your run time at best, not your chances of completion. The players picked up off the floor would have been on the floor in zerkers or any other non-MF gear and you’d still be making sub-optimal runs because your teammates aren’t playing optimally.

Actually, it does, because Berserker’s will have shorter fights. The shorter a fight is, the less chances you have to screw up, and the less easily you are worn down over time.
Berserker’s has better protection than Explorer’s by virtue of not having to fight as long.

You’re missing the point.

The guy screwing up over and over in MF is still the guy screwing up over and over in zerkers.

I’m not going to direct this at you, but most of the MF complaints I see are motivated by people looking for someone to blame when things go south. Often this screwup of the instance group is predicated by the antisocial attitude of people who demand that others adjust to them while being completely unwilling to adjust to others. In short, people who are bad team players… in a team environment.

“I should not have to have a longer run because you want better drops”

“I should not have worse drops because you want a shorter run”

Two sides of the same coin IMO.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Kaimick.5109:

Secondly everyone has their own loot table, the loot I get doesn’t affect what loot you get, I don’t know where you got that mis-conception but it is 100% wrong.

No, it is 100% correct.
Every single drop table is balanced to provide less drops due to the fact that many people will bring MF. If they didn’t, then there would be far more drops than they want when people do bring MF. So, in order to keep the average drops at what they intend, the loot tables are made kittentier for everyone to account for it.

Theory how the loot system works

It is known, that every type of loot you can get from a certain monster type, is stored in it’s own table. That means, if the table has been chosen (i will specify what that means later), the items in that table will be sorted by grade. The RNG starts at the rarest item, and checks if a random number is smaller than a certain threshold which reflects the rarity of the loot. The threshold is multiplied with the magic find value for monster loot and can be adjusted by other factors, e.g. by the level in the FOTM¹. The first item in the list, where the test succeeds, becomes the loot from that certain table. In most (or all?) tables, there is a “trash” item at the end which will be given if no item of higher rarity has been chosen. If the prescaler is to high, lower rarity items will become unlikely or even impossible to obtain.

Not every table will be used on every kill, though.²For every table, you have three more numbers, the first can be considered the size of the loot pool, the second one is a higher number and the third is a counter.³ The chance for a certain table to get selected, is the size of the loot pool divided by the second number. Every time a table is used, a counter is increased and the size of the remaining loot pool is reduced by the same number. This is also known as “diminishing returns” for loot. The smaller the loot pool gets, the smaller are your chances of getting an item from that loot table. The loot pool appears to be restocked over time, but neither the size of the loot pool, nor the actual chance, nor the restock rate are known. On certain monsters, like veterans and champions, you get to roll multiple times for the same table. You won’t get better loot, but instead you have a chance to get more items from your loot pool at once. Magic find has no effect on this.⁴

Other systems (like chests, daily rewards etc.) also use loot tables, but they don’t make use of the “loot pool” system. Instead they use a fixed set of loot tables so they are never effected by any type of diminishing returns, except when the system is designed to have such mechanics.

Magic find therefor does increase the quality of loot from a certain table, but it does not increase the amount of drops you get.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Talk:Magic_find
I love it when Elitist Paranoid people about MF try to use the it sucks up all the loot from normal players, Just read below and you will find my final thoughts
Wait for it …….
:Laweryed:

Kaimick.5109:

I love it when Elitist Paranoid people about MF try to use the it sucks up all the loot from normal players, Just read below and you will find my final thoughts
Wait for it …….
:Laweryed:

So you explained how Magic Find works with drops and then go on to claim that it proves that the drop rates aren’t balanced with MF in mind, despite your explanation not actually being relevant.
That or you didn’t bother reading a clarification I gave to a different poster and you think I believe that MF lowers party members’ drop rates directly due to their presence.

The thing is, MF is just a bad concept. It would be nice of the magic find was a bonus on top of normal statistics. But to exchange proper armor for a minor chance to get a better item logically annoys your team mates. Its just not very in the spirit of the game.

MF through consumables is fine if you ask me, because it stacks with what ever you are wearing. But I don’t get MF gear. Who thought that was a good idea?

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

The thing is, MF is just a bad concept. It would be nice of the magic find was a bonus on top of normal statistics. But to exchange proper armor for a minor chance to get a better item logically annoys your team mates. Its just not very in the spirit of the game.

MF through consumables is fine if you ask me, because it stacks with what ever you are wearing. But I don’t get MF gear. Who thought that was a good idea?

MF through consumables is the same exact situation.

By eating an MF consumable you’re giving up consumable buffs that would increase offense or defensive stats. If you’re going to play the MF-Selfish card either commit to the argument or not.

MF doesn’t create a problem. People blaming MF for bad runs creates a divisive and accusatory community that’s as caustic or more to a productive PUG than “LFG HEAVY ARMOR ONLY”

MF gear isn’t the problem. People yelling at each other over it is.

PopeUrban.2578:

MF through consumables is the same exact situation.

By eating an MF consumable you’re giving up consumable buffs that would increase offense or defensive stats. If you’re going to play the MF-Selfish card either commit to the argument or not.

But its not the same situation. Your armor and other gear make up your primary means of offense and defense. This is not the case for consumables, which are optional, and add minor bonuses on top of the stuff you’re wearing. Bringing MF consumables does not affect how well you perform in a dungeon, but bringing all MF armor does affect it quite a big deal. There couldn’t be a greater difference between the two.

PopeUrban.2578:

MF doesn’t create a problem. People blaming MF for bad runs creates a divisive and accusatory community that’s as caustic or more to a productive PUG than “LFG HEAVY ARMOR ONLY”

MF gear isn’t the problem. People yelling at each other over it is.

People getting angry over full MF gear leechers is a direct result of a flawed design. MF shouldn’t be an armor attribute to begin with, because everyone wants great loot, but everyone also wants good defense and offense. We all make a choice in that regard, balancing our damage against our armor… but loot isn’t a matter of choice. Gathering good loot is the soul purpose of the game. In other words: not-bringing-MF-gear is exactly contrary to the purpose of the game: gathering valuable loot.

This is why we have this problem to begin with. GW2 is meant to be a cooperative game, but MF encourages an uncooperative selfish play style.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Kaimick.5109:

I love it when Elitist Paranoid people about MF try to use the it sucks up all the loot from normal players, Just read below and you will find my final thoughts
Wait for it …….
:Laweryed:

So you explained how Magic Find works with drops and then go on to claim that it proves that the drop rates aren’t balanced with MF in mind, despite your explanation not actually being relevant.
That or you didn’t bother reading a clarification I gave to a different poster and you think I believe that MF lowers party members’ drop rates directly due to their presence.

Not being relevant that is great thanks for the laugh,

I linked you the official Theory of Loot tables Not as in theory not sure if it is true or not, but theory as in the theory of relativity. That whole thing I posted was from the wiki, a source that arena net has already stated to be the official source of information in regrades to the game. It clearly stats
Mobs
Be it Vet, Champion, basic, boss, legendary all have a loot table, the loot table is based per a character not per a group. In fact no where in the Theory does it mention that loot tables are changed when in groups. and the loot table works on a RNG
it first in the milasecond that the mob is destroyed figures in this

• What class of mob ( as class of mob may have a preset loot table or a set raiety loot table)
• Do they get Violet ( Ascended mats ), Orange, yellow, Green, Blue, White, None
• before they figure that out the add in Fractal level ( if any) and Magic Find
• before it finalizes it also figures in Diminishing returns
• then presents your loot
  MF like fractal level doesn’t garnish you more loot it just garnish you a better chance at getting better loot. So follow the way the RNG loot table works if I have Magic find and I am in cof I drop a mob
  RNG
• stops on Blue
• MF is added
• goes up to green ( this is not 100% since they have never said how much MF affects in degrees the loot table just that it does )
• Diminishing returns brings it down to a white ( again this is not 100% as they have never clarified how much DR affects the Table )

A person in regular no MF armor or buffs

• stops on Blue
• Diminishing returns brings it down to a None ( again this is not 100% as they have never clarified how much DR affects the Table )

Someone in MF does not affect anyone else loot table but their own. Just like it is possible to run a dungeon and get 4 rares 1 exotic and 5 cores with no magic find and the MF person get 8 blues 3 greens a lot of whites. The DR is your balance point, since there is no real concert information in how DR is managed or even applies none can give you a 100% accurate solution. Although I suspect that DR is triggered on the dependency of how often you gain higher loot from the table. Therefore someone in MF has or will experience more DR than someone that is not.

These are all facts, please show me your facts from Arena Net that supports your Statement, instead of the it works this way cause I know it does. I unlike you supported my statements with proof and facts, so again wait for it …..
::Lawered::

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

PopeUrban.2578:

MF through consumables is the same exact situation.

By eating an MF consumable you’re giving up consumable buffs that would increase offense or defensive stats. If you’re going to play the MF-Selfish card either commit to the argument or not.

But its not the same situation. Your armor and other gear make up your primary means of offense and defense. This is not the case for consumables, which are optional, and add minor bonuses on top of the stuff you’re wearing. Bringing MF consumables does not affect how well you perform in a dungeon, but bringing all MF armor does affect it quite a big deal. There couldn’t be a greater difference between the two.

PopeUrban.2578:

MF doesn’t create a problem. People blaming MF for bad runs creates a divisive and accusatory community that’s as caustic or more to a productive PUG than “LFG HEAVY ARMOR ONLY”

MF gear isn’t the problem. People yelling at each other over it is.

People getting angry over full MF gear leechers is a direct result of a flawed design. MF shouldn’t be an armor attribute to begin with, because everyone wants great loot, but everyone also wants good defense and offense. We all make a choice in that regard, balancing our damage against our armor… but loot isn’t a matter of choice. Gathering good loot is the soul purpose of the game. In other words: not-bringing-MF-gear is exactly contrary to the purpose of the game: gathering valuable loot.

This is why we have this problem to begin with. GW2 is meant to be a cooperative game, but MF encourages an uncooperative selfish play style.

Look you don’t have to like mf you don’t even have to wear it. But the only reason it is a flawed design is because people like you are worry about how fast you are going. Cause that is all that you text says is if your not in x gear then your leeching and slowing down the run. When in reality all you should ever be worried about is your self and weather or not the dungeon was completed. It doesn’t matter how fast and if the extra 2 min – 5 minutes makes that big of a difference then you shouldn’t be running the dungeon anyhow

Still not exactly sure why people are against my suggestion. You are actually getting a BUFF. MF is party wide but only 1/3 as effective. With 5 people using MF gear, you are getting 2/3 more MF than you normally would have.

Well, why would people be against this?
Obviously because this: People want to be the only leech in their group and not have other people leech off of you. They want others to be properly geared to speed up the run as fast as they can for them to fulfill their two-folds greediness of both bonus loot rate and speed runs.

So actually, there is no reason to be against my suggestion. If you are saying that you want to be the only leech, then yes, you are getting nerfed, but that just proves how greedy you are and that you should be nerfed.

BTW…. DEAD HORSE DEAD HORSE…. And how many LEARN 2 PLAY newb comment has been cited throughout this already dead thread? Well, would you prefer a properly geared skilled player or a MF geared skill player? Would you prefer a newb with mf gear vs. proper gear? The answer is obvious. Skill isn’t the point here. It’s the greedy intent behind the people trying to SOLO LEECH a group that bugs people. The person contributing the least should not be getting the most.

Once again.. DEAD HORSE DEAD HORSE.. And just ask people to ping gear? Well, people can ping decent gear but actually be wearing MF gears. This all points to the flawed system that creates for those nasty slimy leeches. EWWWWWWW