Guild Wars 2

Combination question and suggestion:

Does Anet have any plans to introduce a stealth-detection utility for one of the classes? Because as a veteran of many MMOs, most of them always included at least one class with stealth-detection abilities, and traditionally, it was usually the “Ranger” type class that was the designated “stealth-tracker”. That said, it really does not matter which class you give stealth-detection to (well, just as long as it’s not thieves – lol), whether it be Engineers or whatever, but stealth detection on one (and only one) of the 8 classes would really open up some non-zerg options in WvW (such as a greater interest in small-group vs small group encounters) .

Thank you.

I don’t think stealth lasts long enough for it to be an issue, imo. Just use an AoE attack or something. Stealth does not equal invincibility.

I think a-net said they wanted to avoid the class vs. class hard counters. It’s only one build for one class that has any significant stealth uptime. Designating one class against one build could lock players into a predetermined position.

roachsrealm.9284:

I don’t think stealth lasts long enough for it to be an issue, imo. Just use an AoE attack or something. Stealth does not equal invincibility.

Actually, a theif can maintain perma-stealth out of combat easily; and in combat for a good bit of time depending on build/gear. But, you already knew that. ;-)

As for avoiding class vs class “hard-counters”, they already exist, and in spades. Well, except for the one exception. ;-)

A single class that on occasion might get the jump on a stealthed ambusher is not game-breaking. Stealth tracking is a mechanic that exist in every major mmo’s pvp areas; and it does not in anyway decrease the number of players that choose stealth toons, nor break their ability to excel. On the contrary, it adds a great deal of flavor to WvW roaming, and I’m sure that at least the knowledgeable and well-played thieves would welcome the challenge. If limited to a single class, I can’t imagine this bothering any skilled thief player.

There aren’t any class vs class hard counters. Name a class that can only be beat by one other class.

Ision.3207:

Actually, a theif can maintain perma-stealth out of combat easily; and in combat for a good bit of time depending on build/gear. But, you already knew that. ;-)

And I am pretty sure that the point he was making that out-of-combat stealth isn’t exactly stellar in terms of applications.

As for avoiding class vs class “hard-counters”, they already exist, and in spades. Well, except for the one exception. ;-)

Well name some and we’ll see how “hard” they are. If you know what I mean.

A single class that on occasion might get the jump on a stealthed ambusher is not-game breaking. Stealth tracking is a mechanic that exist in every major mmo’s pvp areas; and it does not in anyway decrease the number of players that choose stealth toons, nor break their ability to excel. On the contrary, it adds a great deal of flavor to WvW roaming, and I’m sure that at least the knowledgeable and well-played thieves would welcome the challenge. If limited to a single class, I can’t imagine this bothering any skilled thief player.

You talk about other games, but you should’ve realized that GW2 is not like those games. The gameplay of GW2 centers heavily on mobility, something that most MMOs have an extreme lack of.

The issues with stealth detection is that a Thief isn’t just invisible. They need that invisibility to land a backstab behind an enemy. Because let’s face it, if you knew that an enemy would get double damage from being behind you and they were fully visible, there’s no way in hell you would let them do that. And there’s not much they could do about that, considering that we have a button for a 180 degree turn built into the game.

Dude, a true hard-counter does not mean some sort of auto-win button where one class can never beat another. It means a class that has an ability/skill(s) that makes it more difficult to do so … that’s it.

I don’t think you know why the word “Hard” is in there. if that was it then all classes are ‘hard’ counters against all others since they all have their own strengths.

A hard counter means you need a specific class in order to have a good chance of beating another. The rock-paper-scissors analogy. that’s what a-net doesn’t want and that’s what a skill like this being given to one class would create.

Guys relax, a single class with stealth tracking will NOT break your ability to run very successful 3 v1 gank groups, or to be wonderful 1v1 solo roamers. Both in WoW (on my rogue) and Lotro (on my warg) I was quite successful in doing both those things despite the fact that there existed some stealth tracking. And many a victim to my stealth class, were among those stealth trackers. ;-)

Like I said, I believe having this included in this game would result in more WvW roaming fun, for both thieves and non-thieves. As well as being a good test to separate the skilled thief players from the less-skilled.

But I can surely understand why some folks would not want it.

If perma stealth was a core mechanic of thieves in this game like it is in WoW, I’d agree with this idea. But giving another class a skill to combat one build of one class just doesn’t make sense to me.

Perma-stealth shouldn’t be possible. But considering it is, it should be counterable. Like taking direct damage removes stealth (not condition damage). Or the other way around, conditions that damage prevent stealth. Or yet something else, conditions that don’t cause damage prevent stealth.

At least something. If I meet a perma stealth thief in stealth I just have to wait till he wants to come out of stealth. I litterally have to stand there and wait. There is nothing that i can do. It’s ridiculous.

Ok, let’s avoid the rock-paper-scissors thing then. But stealth is not just invisibility, it’s also giving the thief the initiative in the fight (no, not the resource). And a lot of it, too, given the high uptime on stealth. To be fair, such a thing does need a counter, even if optional and not bound to one mechanic.

One could make a case for certain ranger pets being able to track stealthed characters. One could make another case for the engineer goggles (the utility skill) to reveal stealthed characters. One could make a case for necros going into death shroud seeing stealthed characters. Etc. As it stands, stealth is the one combat mechanic that doesn’t have an ingame counter (short of full invulnerability – as in, full invulnerability doesn’t have a counter, not that full invulnerability is a counter to stealth). I’d be in favor of changing that – and I play a thief often enough to have utilized stealth more than I liked (sometimes).

Olterin Fire.5960:

Ok, let’s avoid the rock-paper-scissors thing then. But stealth is not just invisibility, it’s also giving the thief the initiative in the fight (no, not the resource). And a lot of it, too, given the high uptime on stealth. To be fair, such a thing does need a counter, even if optional and not bound to one mechanic.

One could make a case for certain ranger pets being able to track stealthed characters. One could make another case for the engineer goggles (the utility skill) to reveal stealthed characters. One could make a case for necros going into death shroud seeing stealthed characters. Etc. As it stands, stealth is the one combat mechanic that doesn’t have an ingame counter (short of full invulnerability – as in, full invulnerability doesn’t have a counter, not that full invulnerability is a counter to stealth). I’d be in favor of changing that – and I play a thief often enough to have utilized stealth more than I liked (sometimes).

Olterin, excellent post. Thanks for your input.

Olterin, I really like those suggestions. Specially death shroud and pet tracking.