Guild Wars 2

Mostly asian mmorpgs have something called subclass, subclass doesn’t have too be anything that changes everything about your class. It should be an addition and expand your possibilities in the way you want your class to play.

I’ve watched a few anime based on mmorpgs, all of them are well done and they give a lot of inspiration.

Let’s say you’re a Guardian and you like support, you like to protect and heal, but you also like to have control. This could open up a bigger playfield.

Let’s say the Subclass for control abillities is called Commander. You will then have a set of unique traits to that sub class that will improve your overall control. No extra skills, but upgrades to your current skills.

Subclass tab is a whole new tab for traits only for this specific sub class.

A Guardian with Mace and Shield would have the shield bubble skill that knocks back. You don’t want to knock back, what you want is to pull enemies toward you instead and immobilize them for 2 seconds. Sounds kind off sweet, doesn’kitten OPTIONS!

You are an Elementalist with the subclass Commander and you’re using Wand + Focus. Your current Dragon’s Tooth only do damage, you now upgrade it to also knock down foes on hit, OR you could make it slow all enemies on impact.

I got more examples. Let’s take the subclass Assassin which focus on assassinating.
You’re a Ranger with Longbow and you have a pet with you. You want your pet to attack with you, so you upgrade your pushback skill on Longbow to also make your pet leap toward the enemy along the distance knocking the enemy down.

What do you think?

The idea is appealing, but i’d really like it not to lock any abilities, or making certain so overpowered that it will make the others undesirable. as for sub classes i would say, make the 3 of them.

1. blood – improves overall efficiency of DOT skills and abilities. cool downs and cast time shortened, damage or speed of dot increased. Also adds 2 new blood based abilities and 1 blood based elite skill and one blood based support skill.

2. light – Improved overall efficiency of heal, health, toughness. cool down of protection based skills shortened and duration prolonged. speed of HOTs increase as well as general healing. Also adds 2 new light based abilities and 1 light based elite skill and one light based support skill.

3. metal – improves overall efficiency of solid damage skills and abilities. cool downs shortened, damage and attack speed increased. Also adds 2 new metal based abilities and 1 metal based elite skill and one metal based support skill.

Or some thing like this

I like the Idea of giving current profession Subclass, but instead of having Subclass that every profession can use, have them branch out of the Main Profession.Lets take that Ranger for example, Its Subclass would:

Huntsman: more Survival & Trap Skills, , gains access to Guns and Rifles
Warden: more Natural Spirit & Signets Skills, access to Staffs
Beast Tamer: more Shout Skills, idk what weapon gain

Edit Note: Weapon that are gain are only gain While in that Subclass

in each Subclass you can alter your Professions Mechanic. Picking Huntsman allows you to swap your Pet (yes a Pet-less Ranger Option) for a Trap Mechanic. Warden would have Natural Spirits( not like the actual ones, but something that functions similar to a Guardians Virtues). and Beast Tamer, would be the ones with the Pets.

I can go more into Detail, but I believe everyone gets where I’m going with this. Improving the Profession in this matter or similar to this to be overall better (imho at least) than patches that just play with the cooldowns and Dmg% of Skills and Traits (although needed, just not all the freakin time)

Instead of adding more skills or changing any of them they need to balance the ones they have already.

Your ideas above doesn’t feel GW2 stylish at all. It feels like you want to adapt GW2 into another mmorpg which its not.

Mash Hog.5672:

Instead of adding more skills or changing any of them they need to balance the ones they have already.

Skills are balanced on most classes. There are some classes that need tuning down a bit, like the mesmer shatter build with sword. Elementalist need a buff.

Zoid, forget it, what you are describing here is the kittenhat was the dual class system of GW1. That will never come back, because its the absolute most terrible to balance system that has ever been existed in a game.

Sub Classes per se are a kind of hybrid between vertical and horizontal progression for the cost, that you lose maybe also something theorefore that you improve something else significantly of the Basic Class Concept.
If you specialize your character to a certain Sub Class, thats basically like as if your Character raises in his/her Job Career 1 step further.
Same like we do in real life.
Lets take the job of a businessman/woman. Its a job, that has branched off into many various sub types over the course of time.

You have by now businessmen/women at retail, you have them for bureau’s, you have them for sport & fitness, you have them for the wholesale, you have them for logistic managing, as controlers in the industry and so on and so forth….

The same concept should just work for classes in GW2.
The Game should have 9 Basic Classes, 3 per Class Type with the 9th being the Lancer.

From that point on each Class should have like 3 Sub Classes and one day maybe in some years, once the game needs again some new fresh air, ANet could maybe come up with new choosable tiers of those Sub Classes.
Its a System of Character progression, that so far has been useed only by 1 single MMORPG that I know and that is Ragnarok Online and its a system that works really great and its also a System, that lets the Character basicalyl progress, without having to increase the Maximum Level Cap (but I at least am still for an increase to Level 100 at least, 80 is a silly number and a few more trait points would be great, 90 instead of 70 sounds good to me for more build diversity and more independency of certain stats being bonded with traitlines.)

Warriors need first to choose between becoming Berserkers, Legionnaires or Duelists.
These 3 options would be called then Sub Classes, while the Basic Class is the Main Profession

Every Sub Class would require Job Experience to raise up in its Job Level.
By raising up in a Sub Classes Job Level, you unlock step by step new stuff like:
- Sub Class Specific new Weapons
- Sub Class Specific new Utility Skills
- Sub Class Specific new Healing Skills
- Sub Class Specific new Elite-Skills that have to be learned from Special Sub Class Masters for tham you have to fulfill various kinds of tasks first, before they make you their new pupils so that you can study from them new Talents, new Skill Skins, new Finishing Moves and so on
- Sub Class Specific new Armor Sets
- Sub Class Specific new Traits

If Anet should ever come up then with advanced Sub Classes, like Ragnarok Online did that. A said Berserker could become then for example a Warlord/Warlordess.
A Legionnaire could become then a Strategist. The Duelist could turn then for example into a Gladiator.

The same thing could do Anet with all other Classes

Ranger > Hunter, Mystic, Strider
Hunter > Poacher
Mystic > Druid
Strider > Scout

Necromancer > Occultist, Visionary, Witcher
Occultist > Ritualist
Visionary > Oracle
Witcher > Punisher

Guardian > Patron, Augmentor, Crusader
Crusader > Exorcist
Augmentor > Magistrate
Patron > Warden

Thief > Rogue, Infiltrator, Saboteur
Rogue > Trickster
Infiltrator > Assassin
Saboteur > Manipulator

Engineer > Alchemist, Pioneer, Artificer
Alchemist > Academic
Pioneer > Innovator
Artificer > Technician

Elementalist > Arcanist, Sorcerer, Runologist
Runologist > Sage
Arcanist > Magus
Sorcerer > Summoner

Mesmer > Chronomancer, Bard, Fencer
Fencer > Fighter
Bard > Troubador
Chronomancer > Mentalist

Lancer > Dragoon, Templar, Partizan
Dragoon > Draconic
Templar > Zealot
Partizan > Mercenary

Something along the line like this, but personally i think its more than enough to have just 3 Sub Classes, giving them after that also tiers I think would be too much.
Instead of tiers it would be just easier then again to add just to all main professions a 4th. Sub Class if really needed.

i think illusionist would be a better subclass for mesmer… fencer sounds pretty cool though if they could use rapiers ect.

and with an illusionist subclass.. maybe they could finally let clones do damage again (like they used to back in the betas) it was funny cus everyone was making XxNarutoxX ect lol.. and using sword and using nothing but clones… it was kinda cool actually lol

right now clones are pretty useless except for shatter builds… by now most people learned not to fall for them in combat.. and they have very little hp.. it would be nice if they did some damage.. doesnt have to be alot.. maybe add a trait to mesmer instead that allows clones to do damage as they did in beta under the illusions traitline.

and even in pve clones are useless cus monsters would attack phantasms over clones cus they are a bigger threat… i only see monsters attack my clones if its directly in front of them on their way to you and you stealth.

i would love to have damage dealing clones back.. maybe the trait could have a tradeoff.. like clones deal damage but phantasms do 50% less damage.. or something like that.

it would be nice to have a change instead of just phantasms all the time.

In my opinion, we already have subclasses by the traits system. Depending of where you put your points and which traits you pick and which weapons you want to use.

@ Adriana

Mentalists are basically Illusionists, its just only a hypernym for it basically based on what Mesmers originally are.
All of the 3 Sub Classes work with some kind of illusions, so I think its not good to name just one Sub Class Illusionist, when they all outright use illusions, but all in a different way.

A Fencer uses more melee combat relative Illusions and distortions of timespace to perform a very quick and straight forward fightign style using swords. They use less Clones, but more enviromental Illusions to distort the timespace around them.

A Chronomancer uses illusions in a mental way to make a victim believe that something went slower or faster than normal, or that a state of time has been reverted back to the past. Time Magic is basically just a more advanced powerful form of illusion magic, where reality gets shifted between the past, the present and the future in form of mental illusions that make a victim believe that the time got changed.
When you dream about a future, its basically a momentous illusion in your mind about what could happen all in that moment and its then about you, if you make this illusion turn into reality by your actions, or if you totally make something different based on your dream and let fate take you onto an other road for a completely different outcome of your future automatically
Dreams are the weakest form of illusions, that everyone is able to create.

A Bard has positive as like negative influences with his inspirative songs that send illusions directly into a persons mind via sounds through sonic waves that transport them when you hear themby singing or making music. The Bard is the kind of Illusionist that improved the Chaos Principle Mechanic of the Mesmer.
The best example of an illusionary kind of bard is the fairytale about the Pied Piper of Hamelin, who controls animals just by the illusions of his music through playing the pipe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pied_Piper_of_Hamelin

@ Kulvar: Traits alone can’t give you sub class specific weapon skills, utilities, tools, traits, weapon types, armor sets, finishers, skill skins and so on.
Thats all content, that you can combine only with a real Sub Class System, that step by step lets you unlock all the new content that is linked to the said Sub Classes.

The Trait System needs to get splitted up into Traits, Abilities and Talents.
that way thie system could provide alot more character progression and character customization options at the same time, than the current Trait System is able of doing at all. The current Trait System is way too much crippling us, but that has also to do with the point, that the current Trait System is bionded together with the Stats of Character progresseion, that we are enforced to put poinjts into specific Trait Lines, if we want to raise a certain Stat … thats somethign that has to change also too together with the splitting of the Trait System into Traits, Abilities and Talents .

It is in fact a sub class system.
Depending of the weapon you choose to use, you have different weapon skills, skill skin and combo available.
Depending of the traits you select, you improve or add effects to current class mechanism, orienting your utilities skill selection.

It’s better than classic subclasses system that allow only to use a specific setting of weapon and utility skills.

Player have already give name to the main subclasses types : Auramancer, Glass Cannon… You can make your own subclass in GW2 by selecting your weapons, traits and utility skills. It’s a great improvement of the subclasses classic system.

Go play Games like Ragnarok Online for example, then you will truly understand what the concept of Sub Classes means.
You are talking not about Sub Classes, you talk about Character Customization and there I have to agree.
The current Trait System lets us customize a bit our Characters, but sadly at the same moment it limitates our choices by being bonded with the Stats.
If you want to give your character more Power for example, you are forced to put points into the trait line, that gives you more power and thats bad game design to me, when you get forced to do something in character development, just to receive the outcome of what you want to get stat wise because of both things being bonded with each other.

You are also not talking about Sub Classes, you speak about player specific “Build Names” and Terms for specific known types of play styles.
Beign a Glass Cannon is not a Sub Class, its a term for a specific Play Style that prefers to go the full route for Maximum Damage and developing nothing into Defense or Max Health.

Traits alone can’t unlock for a character new weapons to use.
You will never be able for example as a necromancer to wield a Great Sword, only because you have Trait X active in the moment.
Sub Classes are it, that could enable the Necromancer to wield Great Swords, because you’ve decided for your Character to become a Witcher and thus specialized your Necromancer to become more melee combat orientated Sub Class of the Necromancer that is the Main Profession with that all the Sub Classes would share certain Basic Mechanics, Traits, Utility and Elite Skills, that all Sub Classes can use.

Sub Classes are it, that can unlock for you new Armor Sets to use, its not content that you can use, only because you have at the Moment Trait X active in your build.

Sub Class Abilities are it, which could change the way how a Skill looks for your Character, not Traits.. Traits just change the way how a Skill works, but not how the Skill looks by changing its Skin.

A Sub Class related Ability could change the effect of the skill in a way, that is unique for that Sub Class, or make it look completely different, so that it is unique for that Sub Class, so that you also can see visual differences between chosen Sub Classes.

Example

An Arcanist for example could have an Ability, that raises the Range of Fireballs and their Flight Speed making the Fireball also look Blue instead of Red.

A Runologist instead could have an Ability, that raises the power of Fireballs and increases the SIZE of the Fireball, so that it hits also more targets, so that it looks much bigger than normal creating a kind of explosion effect when it hits the foe

A Sorcerer instead could have an Ability, that increases the amount of Fireball, turning it literally into many little Fireballs changing the Skill into a DoT Skill that damages over time multiple times, rather than just one time.

Thats what I mean, that each Sub Class could differentiate through Abilities their ways of how their combat styles look with also sub class specific traits under the term of Ability, instead of Trait, so that theres no confusion between both.
This means that if something is called a Trait, then you know it can be used by all Sub Classes, because the Traits are bonded to the shared Main Profession.

But if something is called an Ability, then its basically a trait, that works only specificly for that one Sub Class that you have chosen to become with your Character and the special thing about Abilities would be simply, that they can also have visual enhancements that change the ways how skills do look, so basically overwrite an old skill skin with a new one by the used sub class ability.
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The Trait System alone can’t do all of that what I have described here.
But its basically what people like you Kulvar want it to do, because it would mean then, that Anet would have to make no changes at all to the game and let the game be, as it is now.

Why do people so often fear changes? Especially when they could significantly improve the game, is way beyond me.
GW2 needs more horizontal character progression. The last year was everythign what Anet did only adding new vertical progression through implementing all of those ascendent items.

Now its time for more horizontal progression. Sub Classes are imo the most perfect and easy implementable way to do that and they are something, which could be also added to the game via the biweekly patches, because they don’t require so much space and development time, like implementign a complete new seperate class, because you already have the main professions that can be used as foundation for the sub classes instead of having to begin completely from 0.

Of course people want class expansion. Theres alot of ways to do this but not until what we already have is balanced.

It’s not fear, but “character gameplay customization” is an enhanced subclasses mechanism. It’s better to ask an improvement of the current system than ask for a subclasses mechanism that will be bugged, add unbalancing side-effect, be less customizable, and frustrate you as much as the current system because you will want the weapon and the traits of differents subclasses.

@Orpheal
I like your ideas, but I think that having 3 2-stage classes would be really hard to program and come up with. It should probably be limited to 3 choices.

@ comanche

I agree with you there completely, I made up that list only so far, to show you all, how far this could go at all, if Anet should ever want to add even more character progression on top of it, if it should be ever needed, without having to raise the Level Cap, instead addign a new tier of the Sub Classes letting our character raise up in their career ladder, but I see also other problems with that, not only that it becomes hard to programm, it becomes also ridiculous hard with each tier to think out for every way a fitting good Class Name !! lol

Even for me it was painfully hard to come up with some good names that followed all the same structure (no 2 two word names like Death Knight)
However, with all those names there in the list, I’d turn some around between 1st and 2nd tier (did’t made that directly, because I added the 2nd tier just only on the foundation of my original idea to post it a bit faster xD ya im lazy sometimes too ^^)

Its alot easier to program like 3-4 seperate Sub Classes per Main Profession, than to programm like 3 Sub Classes with all having several tiers.
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@ Silhouette:
Ever thought about it, that Sub Classes are a very good way to balance out the Main Professions?? With Sub Classes do the Devs have a very simple way to buff and nerf the Main Professions in a completely different way, so that the results at the end will feel more balanced, than the Main Professions are currently without Sub Classes.
Sub Classes just allow the Devs to reform the Classes, just like clay that you can remodel to somethign new, when you don’t like its earlier form.

i just want the mesmer to have actual fencing animations for sword.. i mean mai trinn already has the fencing animations.. so id join up for your fencer idea just for that.. a more elegant focus for the sword.. instead of wild hacking and slashing.. which doesnt look right on a mesmer.. it could use a variety of ripostes and stabs…

i mean come on.. dont you agree blurred frenzy would make more sense if it had a riposte animation? how does wildy swinging your blade around block anything? it looks just like warriors skill.. doesnt look like it would block anything..

but if they changed it to a riposte animation.. it would actually look the part.