Guild Wars 2

So far the only classes that have unconditioned access to stealth are the Mesmer and the Thief. Mesmer gets 3 seconds on an utility skill and 5 on an elite (4/6 when traited, respectively), and both have reasonable cooldowns. Thief has access to even more stealth skills (weapon, utility and healing skills), out of which most are 3s. I dont think the number of Thief stealth skills is the problem, but rather the one dependent on Initiative which doesnt have a cooldown – Cloak and Dagger. Thief is less squishy than Scholars but can disengage at will. I dont think this is balanced. So my suggestion is that, instead of nerfing the Thief, make certain combo fields (maybe “Light” but I’d let the devs decide which) reveal stealth. But I’d recommend making them reveal stealth only in their AoE, so when a characters leaves the field he is again invisible. The pros is that players would be able to reveal stealth based on their intuition (i.e. players would have to guess where he might be) without breaking the stealth mechanic in general, or nerfing the Thief. One would need to take the appropriate skill with him though, taking up 1 slot on his/hers skillbar.

I agree, thieves can reset fights too easily with stealth and have very high burst. I don’t think their burst is too much of a problem, it’s that they are not as vulnerable to counterattack if they fail as other burst classes.

milo.6942:

I agree, thieves can reset fights too easily with stealth and have very high burst. I don’t think their burst is too much of a problem, it’s that they are not as vulnerable to counterattack if they fail as other burst classes.

They are frail and will die without resetting. The burst needs to be toned everything else is fine.

No. lol

Stealth is already limited enough. If you want combo fields to detect it the entire class would have to be reworked to accommodate.

They are frail and will die without resetting. The burst needs to be toned everything else is fine.

Exactly, Thieves are balanced with stealth as their primary defense system.

Well, they need to have their burst like warriors do. If you get nailed by the full combo you might die. It’s likely this is what arenanet wants. But once they’ve done their combo and if you’re not dead yet they can just stealth, heal up, regen init and try again.

I don’t play thief btw, just my observation on the other end of things so maybe I’m misjudging the issue.

Not really Milo. For one, you can still be hit in Stealth. For another, Stealth is limited duration, and you can’t stealth for 3 seconds after leaving stealth. If a Thief has Stealth utility, they lose out on other things.

I think your problem is more with Backstab Thieves than anything else, but that is why people who don’t know much about classes shouldn’t be on forums trying to make design decisions.

milo.6942:

I agree, thieves can reset fights too easily with stealth and have very high burst. I don’t think their burst is too much of a problem, it’s that they are not as vulnerable to counterattack if they fail as other burst classes.

Good post milo. Although I think that the Thief, as an “assassin” type class, should have high burst but also stealth. Nerfing any of those two would ruin the concept ie. it would not be a “thief” anymore. So all Im saying is to add stealth detection in the game, which would keep the backstab gimmick in line and at the same time allow us to preserve this class concept without nerfing it

Dantallion.3016:

I really dont know why I cant see someone bleeding while invisible, or why they get transluscent so hailstorms and other things do not show when they are hit.

If Anet lack the engine to do such things, then we def need a stealth detection because right now it is ridiculous and breaks completely the immersion.

AT LEAST LET US SEE THE FOOTPRINTS kitten FOOTPRINTS

Dont we get floating feedback when invisible characters are hit by AoE ? If not, it should be added immediately IMO

before ANY changes to stealth occur its bugs need fixing

right now a thief is supposed to be able to have 3-4 seconds of stealth (outside shadow refuge) and then be visible for 3 seconds.

the way it actually works because of bugs/lag is the thief is visible for effectively .1-1 second.

lets fix it before we nerf it, otherwise it could jsut become horribly UP.

Luka.6831:

Although I think that the Thief, as an “assassin” type class, should have high burst but also stealth. Nerfing any of those two would ruin the concept ie. it would not be a “thief” anymore.

Hmm, you know there was an almost mythical profession in Guild Wars 1 that was the type of class you just described… and that game lacked stealth entirely!

Varyag.3751:

Luka.6831:

Although I think that the Thief, as an “assassin” type class, should have high burst but also stealth. Nerfing any of those two would ruin the concept ie. it would not be a “thief” anymore.

Hmm, you know there was an almost mythical profession in Guild Wars 1 that was the type of class you just described… and that game lacked stealth entirely!

and they were horrid. lol

Ashanor.5319:

and they were horrid. lol

Only if the player was, which is where it differs from Thief. Thief is very forgiving.

Varyag.3751:

Ashanor.5319:

and they were horrid. lol

Only if the player was, which is where it differs from Thief. Thief is very forgiving.

Nope, sorry. They were horrid, and boring, and you might as well have been playing a Warrior because they do it better.

Whats wrong with Gw1 Assassins? Been part of the game meta on more occassions in both PvE and PvP. Anyway yes good point, they didnt have stealth. But IMO its better to add stealth detection than remove stealth

stealth is already weak enough on this game, if thieves cant stealth to some extent , what good are they in pvp?

they could use higher cooldowns on their stealths but other than that , i think stealth in this game is fairly well balanced actually

Stealth is fine, Thief mobility is fine.

Thief needs a redesign to Assassin’s Signet to stop 1 shot backstabs and change the trait that makes Steal deal damage.

Then Thief will be the most balanced profession in the game.

Ashanor.5319:

No. lol

Stealth is already limited enough. If you want combo fields to detect it the entire class would have to be reworked to accommodate.

They are frail and will die without resetting. The burst needs to be toned everything else is fine.

Exactly, Thieves are balanced with stealth as their primary defense system.

Except that that defense system isn’t just a defense system, but the ability to get a high damage first strike whenever they open combat, and the ability to open combat without any potential counterplay from their opponent.

I’m fine with stealth, what I’m not fine with is being able to take 3/4s of my health the second they drop out of stealth without my being able to do anything about it.

Luka.6831:

Whats wrong with Gw1 Assassins? Been part of the game meta on more occassions in both PvE and PvP.

Nothing, they were excellent. Ashanor is either a troll or has never played GW1, possibly both.

Luka.6831:

Anyway yes good point, they didnt have stealth. But IMO its better to add stealth detection than remove stealth

Stealth shouldn’t be removed, at least not now that the game has been released as it’s really too late. Personally I just wish Thief defense had more emphasis on blinds, defensive skills – Dagger Storm, for example, which is rarely used due to “I win” button Thieves Guild – and shadow steps – like the Assassin in GW1.

An increase to the “revealed” timer, which currently stands at three seconds, would be great.

Blazer Hellsing.9184:

Thief needs a redesign to Assassin’s Signet to stop 1 shot backstabs and change the trait that makes Steal deal damage.

Even better, change the Assassin’s Signet skill so it breaks if stealth is entered and breaks stealth if activated during stealth. Thieves should have extreme burst – but not extreme burst and excellent escape abilities at the same time.

They should just repair the lag issues (characters not showing up). Due to this, Its impossible to see and target the Thief for an additional 2-3 seconds (in addition to his normal fade-in time). So in total, you see him when youre dead or near death.

using cloak and dagger doesn’t break combat speed, so unless combined with an utility like shadowstep, that thief has 3 seconds to run away, which is less than you may think at first.

especially when you consider that stealth =/= immunity. lay some damage dealing AoEs, or some mobility impairing ones as soon as the thief enters stealth, and he won’t get far. he also has to wait 3 seconds before entering stealth again, and cloak and dagger burns through initiative pretty fast.

last but not least, thieves are so squishy that stealth is pretty much their only way of surviving.