Guild Wars 2

In addition to dodging forwards, backwards, and side to side, I would like to suggest a ‘stationary dodge,’ or “down dodging” (via smash bros).

The idea is, you hit the dodge key by itself (not in conjunction with a movement key), and you dodge where your standing. Reaction time will still be key to pulling off this maneuver, but at the same time you don’t have to fret with re positioning yourself after every successful dodge.

How would one account for AoE or conical attacks with this new method?

you would directional dodge those. Or not, depending on the situation.

Continuous AoE = direction dodge. You would dodge the first hit as well as move out of the AoE.

one single attack (cleave) could be mitigated by stationary dodging, since there is no continuous dmg to move away from.

edit; made it a little clearer (hopefully)

The current mechanics allow for all dodging to be coded the same way, what you’re asking would require a rework of the abilites and what counds as a dodge/evade for for each one individually. It’s a rather daunting task, to say the least.

LeeroyNimoy.1864:

The current mechanics allow for all dodging to be coded the same way, what you’re asking would require a rework of the abilites and what counds as a dodge/evade for for each one individually. It’s a rather daunting task, to say the least.

I don’t know that it would need to be coded significantly different. It’s just like dodging except you don’t move anywhere.

I dunno, is there a coding FAQ i should read before making a suggestion?

Not really, there’s not a standard set of coding rules across the board, and each game will use different things. From what I’ve been able to gather from my base knowledge in coding and watching the game mechanics work (and taing a gander at the combat logs from time to time), a dodge is a dodge at the moment. So you dodge in a particular direction and the coding must decide if you evaded the attack based on timing, area the ability affects, distance of your original location and/or your new location to the point of origin for dodged ability, and possibly quite a bit more.

What this means is that they would have to add mechanics to include separate styles of attacks. If an attack is only a straight forward attack then you could “down dodge” it, if it is a full frontal attack (like a hammer slamming into the ground) you could not. So it would have to then include not just the area of the spells affect, but it’s precise location, possibly three deminsionally.

Then one could as that there be added an “up dodge”, a dodge that is used by pressing your bound key and jump. This would then add to the coding, some AoEs would only affect the ground and not any space above it. Same for things like the trip wire trap that a Thief has, possibly to even include several others.

In fact, in order to make these new abilities viable, they might have to turn around and add whole new spells and abilities. This doesn’t mean I don’t like your idea, I’m just trying to politely play devil’s advocate so we can see all sides of the situation.

I really don’t think attacks would have to be changed. Everything is dodged the same, currently. The only difference with stationary dodging is you end up in the same place you started after the dodge.

If the place you end up after stationary dodging is still in an AoE field, then you would take the subsequent damage. But in this situation it would be smarter to directional dodge.

Currently, i dodge straight through enemies and the only thing that matters is that i clicked dodge at the right time…not which direction i go.

I edited my first response to your concern about AoE’s and cleaves to make it a little clearer.

Well, I never said anythign about cleaves. I said conical attacks, like the Ele spitting fire or ice. Although, instead of cleaves, one could ask about slams, like the hammer slamming I mentioned above. However, I don’t feel as though it matters. I don’t disagree with you, but I know you won’t cede to my point of view. The idea is interesting, I just don’t think it’s an easily implimented one.

LeeroyNimoy.1864:

Well, I never said anythign about cleaves. I said conical attacks, like the Ele spitting fire or ice. Although, instead of cleaves, one could ask about slams, like the hammer slamming I mentioned above. However, I don’t feel as though it matters. I don’t disagree with you, but I know you won’t cede to my point of view. The idea is interesting, I just don’t think it’s an easily implimented one.

It’s not that i refuse to cede to your point…i guess i don’t get it.

A conical attack will do damage one time in the range of the cone. If you are within the cone’s range you are vulnerable to get hit by it. If you dodge at the moment of the attack while you are in the range, you wont get hit by it.

I believe directional dodging works the same way, as long as you dodge at the right time, even if you’re still in the hit range, you will not get hit, just as long as you dodge at the exact time that the attack would normally hit you.

A conical attack isn’t a one-time damage. It ticks like a DoT, at least the Elementalist spells I mentioned above do. The Engineer rifle ability that acts as a shotgun burst is conical and one-time. Simply down-dodging won’t cut those, though is that point.

The other point is less important as I think deeper about the way dodging currently works along with the last thign you said about directional dodging, and then think about the way it should work. So allow me to alter my prior point to say the following:

Currently if I’m fighting a centaur and he has a little red circle on the ground I can dodge forward (through him) and end up inside the circle still, but it counts as evade as long as I did it at the right time. This shouldn’t be, it should still count for a hit as I’m in the circle.

Before they impliment an idea like this, they should change the dodge mechanic and make the coding for it and abilites to be more convoluted so it doesn’t count if I dodge still inside the circle of an AoE. It’s something that needs to be corrected as it kind of takes away from the whole having a hit-box and needing to dodge appropriately thing.

I appologize for my prior point being incorrect, I was making assumptions about the dodge mechanic without fully considering all the times I’ve dodged things, but you jogged my memory.

I don’t see what the problem is. All dodging does is cause you to move a specific distance and for the duration of that move it applies evade to you. While evade is active you take no direct damage from hits. Dodging in place would just work like the Ranger Greatsword power 1 chain 3 attack. On the third attack of the chain you spin in place and evade all attacks for the duration of the animation.

Kal Spiro.9745:

I don’t see what the problem is. All dodging does is cause you to move a specific distance and for the duration of that move it applies evade to you. While evade is active you take no direct damage from hits. Dodging in place would just work like the Ranger Greatsword power 1 chain 3 attack. On the third attack of the chain you spin in place and evade all attacks for the duration of the animation.

My initial complaint in this suggestion was both ill-worded and slightly ill-concieved. My quarrel is less with the idea of stationary dodging and more with the way dodge currently works, if I dodge an AoE it doesn’t hurt me even if I’m still in the AoE.

LeeroyNimoy.1864:

A conical attack isn’t a one-time damage. It ticks like a DoT, at least the Elementalist spells I mentioned above do. The Engineer rifle ability that acts as a shotgun burst is conical and one-time. Simply down-dodging won’t cut those, though is that point.

When you said Ele spells i was thinking more along the lines of Fire Grab and less about Cone of Cold, or even an engi flame thrower. I’m pretty sure Fire grab just doesn’t hit in the first place :P

but yeah any DoT spells, the stationary dodge would only avoid the first tick and subsequent ticks would hit you. This leaves room for directional dodge to still be useful.

Yeah, and I completely forgot about the things like Fire Grab, lol. I don’t doubt that directional dodge would be useful, I just don’t know that a stationary dodge would serve a purpose beyond looking cool and keeping you in one place. If that’s the whole point, the I think we’ve got something here, lol.

Until the dodge system can realize that I dodged an AoE by rolling to the other end of the area it effects, I don’t think a stationary dodge would really matter one way or the other. Again, this isn’t a bad idea and I don’t disagree with it, I just think the mechanics need work on what we have before it can get deeper.

LeeroyNimoy.1864:

I just don’t know that a stationary dodge would serve a purpose beyond looking cool and keeping you in one place. If that’s the whole point, the I think we’ve got something here, lol.

That’s pretty much it right there. A dodge that doesn’t require you to reorient yourself afterwards.

I didn’t think of it initially, but this would probably make underwater combat a little less frantic as well.

I despise underwater combat, but that’s mostly because my Thief sucks at it … my Warrior rox everything, lol.

I certainly hope they make this a toggleable feature. I’ve already gotten used to pressing ’v’ to dodge backwards.

Sawnic.6795:

I certainly hope they make this a toggleable feature. I’ve already gotten used to pressing ‘v’ to dodge backwards.

I didn’t even know that V was bound to dodge for something like two weeks. I was double tapping everywhere, I’m used to the bahavior from other games already. Haha

Sawnic.6795:

I certainly hope they make this a toggleable feature. I’ve already gotten used to pressing ‘v’ to dodge backwards.

For you Sawnic, of course

But evidence shows every time anet add’s a new UI/Control feature it also comes with an option to get rid of it and go back to how things were (the new fast-cast targeting options come to mind).

Personally, after double tapping to dodge i finally bound it to middle mouse, and that has practically changed my life! That being said, i don’t think i ever find myself “neutral dodging,” if you will. In otherwords, i pretty much always use dodge in conjunction with a direction.

Scrambles.2604:

Sawnic.6795:

I certainly hope they make this a toggleable feature. I’ve already gotten used to pressing ‘v’ to dodge backwards.

For you Sawnic, of course

But evidence shows every time anet add’s a new UI/Control feature it also comes with an option to get rid of it and go back to how things were (the new fast-cast targeting options come to mind).

Personally, after double tapping to dodge i finally bound it to middle mouse, and that has practically changed my life! That being said, i don’t think i ever find myself “neutral dodging,” if you will. In otherwords, i pretty much always use dodge in conjunction with a direction.

I have middleclick bound to autowalk, but that’s just comparing buttons.

I have a weird hierarchy of combinations set up for what buttons I’ll use to dodge. If I’m using more than 1 key for my direction (such as qs or we) I’ll doubletap the appropriate direction. If I’m using one key I’ll tap v if I’m not reaching for an ability (my 6-0 are bound to 1-5 so it gets a little complicated).

While I admit a stationary dodge would be incredibly useful from the dodger’s point of view, I think it would cheapen dodges. They’re already the strongest form of damage mitigation (100%). But the trade-off is the repositioning. Forcing a melee foe to dodge away from one of your attacks is the recompense for not hitting them. Sure, your wind-up skill missed, but at least they aren’t on your face for 1sec.

Seras.5702:

While I admit a stationary dodge would be incredibly useful from the dodger’s point of view, I think it would cheapen dodges. They’re already the strongest form of damage mitigation (100%). But the trade-off is the repositioning. Forcing a melee foe to dodge away from one of your attacks is the recompense for not hitting them. Sure, your wind-up skill missed, but at least they aren’t on your face for 1sec.

this is a good point, that the current system forces you to reposition when you dodge so both sides have to account for that. However, my target doesn’t necessarily have to dodge away, they could always dodge towards/through me and get in or inside my face.

This would really come down to the true intention behind dodging—if dodging was supposed to be a trade off—avoid damage at the cost of your original position as well as some endurance.

At the same time, melee classes have more to lose in this trade off compared to ranged classes, who can afford to lose their position and still be able to hit their target from the new position.