[Suggestion] Thief Stealth fix/compromise
I am against this. I strongly believe once they fix the render issues thieves will on a more lvl playing field to 1 vs 1 against. Maybe a slight damage adjust until they get all class traits and bugs worked out so they can properly balance the game because right now you cannot balance the game with so many class issues.
Realistically, someone standing in front of you on a sunny day not moving and mysteriously vanishes while you have an adrenaline rush and are at full alert, cannot be allowed.
In a game, it is a balance issue. Despite there being minor issues with any other class, this is an issue that needs to be addressed and fixed. There needs not be any compensating changes since it is not intended for any class to have permanent stealth. So any argument of giving something while adjust is just amusing since it was that player’s fault learning to rely on bugs to play.
MMOs that I have ever played or known about does not allows a player to immediately drop back into stealth while in combat (cool down is normally 10 seconds), not without penalties. (example, In DAoC , you could use vanish to instantly stealth but you are disarmed for 60 seconds and are unable to enter combat).
This suggestion would bring into balance the class and return it to play as intended. It is not a big hassle to move out of line of sight, Thieves normally already do this to break combat to heal up.
This suggestion would bring into balance the class and return it to play as intended. It is not a big hassle to move out of line of sight, Thieves normally already do this to break combat to heal up.
Play as intended? Who are you to decide that?
Nearly all MMOs have stealth in the form of non combat stealth. Most such skills cannot be used in combat at all and are long duration invisibility. When those games add combat stealth it is usually in the form of a rare long CD skill to be used only in emergencies to disengage. Aion even gave you a lot of speed on that one.
GW2 is the polar opposite of most MMOs on that aspect. All stealths last a very very short time : 3s. More or less only shadow refuge breaks the mold by making you stand still to get a longer duration. All stealth skills are in fact more “in combat” skills than out of combat. And you came and say more or less that we shouldn’t make use of them in combat freely ?
Realistically, ppl don’t though fireballs from their hands nor survive a “head shot”, they don’t miraculously resurrect when ppl rub their belly for a few seconds…
Realistically after betting back stabbed you will be in no conditions to follow anyone even if you could see them…
You should look at stealth as an “invisibility” and not “hidden” in plain day light on an open field or under water or a “blind” with smoke or a powder in your eyes that temporarily blinds you and any one around the thief.
this is a fantasy game, lets keep it that way ok?
If you are not a dev you can’t know what is “intended”
Realistically if I stab you or shot you or cut you in pieces with a sword or an axe you’ll die. So yeeee oneshot!!
A 60 seconds buff to see through stealth would be the greatest nerf ever.
Come on, try to be seriuos when you post something.
Black Thunders [BT] – Gandara
Also necros and rangers do not have minior issues, they have massive issues around the class. Ranger pets are a joke since most can be just kited around and never hurt a player. Same with the spirits they have and did you know necros have a bug with the Soul Reaping trait line not giving the bonus to the life force. The actual trait line, not to mention all the minor traits that do not work or even the major ones. Class’s do not just have small or minor issues that need fixed, they have major flaws in them.
We should rename backstab to eyepoke and make it do double damage from front instead. So it will make much more sense to be one-shot and therefore will reduce complaints. /sarcasm
About stealth – do not forget that in gw2 stealth is combat ability. This was done to ensure that people will not complain about not seeing the thief coming. Sadly, people were overestimated and are still complaining about thieves’ surprise attacks when it is clearly their fault for not looking around. At very least.
Stealth, being indirect and easily counterable defensive/offensive ability, contributes a lot to gameplay at the moment with the exception of rendering bug.
Stealth is very special here, because it is more of a deception ability than anything else, and that is what is important (and fun) in a game without direct support roles (sadly)
Also necros and rangers do not have minior issues, they have massive issues around the class. Ranger pets are a joke since most can be just kited around and never hurt a player. Same with the spirits they have and did you know necros have a bug with the Soul Reaping trait line not giving the bonus to the life force. The actual trait line, not to mention all the minor traits that do not work or even the major ones. Class’s do not just have small or minor issues that need fixed, they have major flaws in them.
And your point is?
Black Thunders [BT] – Gandara
I think he probably meant poor class design in terms of details. For every class out there except warriors.
edit nvm, Ichishi has said what I wanted to say but simpler.
And again somebody who claims to know better what ArenaNet intended the Thief to be than ArenaNet themselves.
This is really getting old guys.
OT:
It’s a stupid idea. You want to take away a core mechanic of a class, and further the only defense it has.
Whats next? If a mesmer clone deals damage to a enemy, the mesmer can’t use any clones for 60 seconds?
Or if a Ele uses a ability, attunement swap goes on CD for 60 seconds?
It’s a bad suggestion with absolutely no thought behind it. Just after the motto of “let’s take random stuff away from the class i can’t handle”.
(edited by Asum.4960)
Anet should stop the little games with weapon sets a give a SELECTION of skills for every slot of every weapon set. Until then there will be problem with every aspect of the game. This game does not need that much change to existing things. This game must simply have more options to choose from, so that people will blame everything on themselves for not being able to make a right choice, not complain about being hardly outplayed and blame everything on class imbalance (that is directly result of limited options)
And again somebody who claims to know better what ArenaNet intended the Thief to be than ArenaNet themselves.
This is really getting old guys.
OT:
It’s a stupid idea. You want to take away a core mechanic of a class, and further the only defense it has.
Whats next? If a mesmer clone deals damage to a enemy, the mesmer can’t use any clones for 60 seconds?
Or if a Ele uses a ability, attunement swap goes on CD for 60 seconds?It’s a bad suggestion with absolutely no thought behind it. Just after the motto of “let’s take random stuff away from the class i can’t handle”.
Illusions do not do damage though, that was removed since they used to hit hard. Unless you shatter them now that is for damage. I know what you mean, just that was a bad example was all.
And again somebody who claims to know better what ArenaNet intended the Thief to be than ArenaNet themselves.
This is really getting old guys.
OT:
It’s a stupid idea. You want to take away a core mechanic of a class, and further the only defense it has.
Whats next? If a mesmer clone deals damage to a enemy, the mesmer can’t use any clones for 60 seconds?
Or if a Ele uses a ability, attunement swap goes on CD for 60 seconds?It’s a bad suggestion with absolutely no thought behind it. Just after the motto of “let’s take random stuff away from the class i can’t handle”.
Illusions do not do damage though, that was removed since they used to hit hard. Unless you shatter them now that is for damage. I know what you mean, just that was a bad example was all.
*Phanstasm.
Jez..
I just don’t get it. Server side fix to stealth is all that needs fixing. No one ever complained about stealth in any other game and that was perma stealth.
Most of the people who complain about stealth just plain don’t understand it. They believe it’s “perma stealth” and think that they “can’t see the thief coming” and think you “can’t be hit”. How many complains have there been about stealth stomp and how it’s impossible to counter? People are just completely clueless.
This game requires you to do things that you aren’t trained to do from other MMOs. I made a Mesmer alt and my favorite WvW pastime is yanking Thieves from SR with Focus#4. Why has this literally never happen to my Thief when I play him? I can only assume the vast majority of Mesmers don’t know you can do this.
Stealth in this game is a fluid in combat ability. It’s a powerful defense mechanism but it’s our only one. They either completely re-do the profession or they make small tweaks to reveled debuff after fixing culling.
(edited by Stiv.1820)
Anet should stop the little games with weapon sets a give a SELECTION of skills for every slot of every weapon set. Until then there will be problem with every aspect of the game. This game does not need that much change to existing things. This game must simply have more options to choose from, so that people will blame everything on themselves for not being able to make a right choice, not complain about being hardly outplayed and blame everything on class imbalance (that is directly result of limited options)
ppl will not blame themselves ever. atm we have glass cannons complaining because they die by thieves instead of take some toughness and vitality.
Black Thunders [BT] – Gandara
Most of the people who complain about stealth just plain don’t understand it. They believe it’s “perma stealth” and think that they “can’t see the theif coming” and think you “can’t be hit”.
This game requires you to do things that you aren’t trained to do from other MMOs. I made a Mesmer alt and my favorite WvW pastime is yanking Thieves from SR with Focus#4. Why has this literally never happen to my Thief when I play him? I can only assume the vast majority of Mesmers don’t know you can do this.
Stealth in this game is a fluid in combat ability. It’s a powerful defense mechanism but it’s our only one. They either completely re-do the profession or they make small tweaks to reveled debuff after fixing culling.
Yeah i like to do this aswell, the GS push ability also works a treat.
The problem with stealth as i see it.
In other MMO’s that i have played stealth classes usualy get ONE escape to use if the feck up their assault, the “ohhhhkitten button”.
In GW2 you can pop in and out of stealth every 3 seconds, meaning you can escape the fight at any time, with the aid of the SB and shadow refuge its very easy to escape when things go wrong.
My problem with the thief in this game is just the insane burst they can achieve while still having stealth and the best mobility in the game.
Anet should stop the little games with weapon sets a give a SELECTION of skills for every slot of every weapon set. Until then there will be problem with every aspect of the game. This game does not need that much change to existing things. This game must simply have more options to choose from, so that people will blame everything on themselves for not being able to make a right choice, not complain about being hardly outplayed and blame everything on class imbalance (that is directly result of limited options)
ppl will not blame themselves ever. atm we have glass cannons complaining because they die by thieves instead of take some toughness and vitality.
I mentioned in another post that my mesmer can beat most thieves over a couple of minutes in a fight, It takes me this long because she is high toughness. 1.8k toughness, 2.7k armor so her dps is low but has high survivability…. at least that is what i thought. A BS burst specced thief killed me 4 times in a row in 4 seconds using steal>C&D>BS>heartseeker x2. The damage was 14k for the opening burst then 3k for each heartseeker.
Tell me this is intended? Tell me that me giving away all my dps in favor of survivability, means he can still kill me in 4 seconds.
More options = more difficult to mention everything = more people deleting their posts and not coming to forums for a few days after one good comment = everyone wins
ArcticRed, please. We are not telling that, for example BS, is weak. We can agree that it should be changed a bit. We do not agree to the fact that most people come here, spitting out senseless amount of senseless information, giving ridiculous conclusions and suggestions without a single thought. Worst part is that anet will have to read this, they decided this themselves by making off forums, so that minimum of informative posts with constructive suggestions may be lost and result in another “pw nerf”.
(edited by Ichishi.9613)
And, again, surviving is not a matter of giving away all your dps, it is about changing your playstyle
More options = more difficult to mention everything = more people deleting their posts and not coming to forums for a few days after one good comment = everyone wins
ArcticRed, please. We are not telling that, for example BS, is weak. We can agree that it should be changed a bit. We do not agree to the fact that most people come here, spitting out senseless amount of senseless information, giving ridiculous conclusions and suggestions without a single thought. Worst part is that anet will have to read this, they decided this themselves by making off forums, so that minimum of informative posts with constructive suggestions may be lost and result in another “pw nerf”.
If im full toughness and no DPS and still getting killed in 4 seconds then IT needs to be adressed, and i will keep asking for it to be sorted out.
And, again, surviving is not a matter of giving away all your dps, it is about changing your playstyle
Rolling full toughness IS my playstyle, i like to win fights through attrition. I like long fights.
So if i have all toughness armor, jewelry and traits then why is it right in your eyes for me to die in 4 seconds to a thief that decides to spec glass cannon because that is his playstyle?
Because passive defense (armor, stats) is but around one tenth of your total defense.
If you want long fights you need not more armor, but more mobility, more dodges, more awareness.
If im full toughness and no DPS and still getting killed in 4 seconds then IT needs to be adressed, and i will keep asking for it to be sorted out.
4 seconds are so long…. if you were not able to do anything in 4 seconds there is something wrong.
4 seconds are pretty enough to hit 1 key… maybe the one with “decoy” or “mirror images” or “blink” …
Black Thunders [BT] – Gandara
Long fight in my opinion is when people circle around each other at range waiting for a moment of mistake to land that fatal blow aka killing in less than 4 seconds.
Combat starts for that thief once he spots you. It is way longer than 4 seconds
Because passive defense (armor, stats) is but around one tenth of your total defense.
If you want long fights you need not more armor, but more mobility, more dodges, more awareness.
I know how to PvP. He preloads C&D then hits me with steal and backstab. All 3 hitting me for 14k, that leaves me with 4k health left.
Tell me how i can avoid this please?
You guys always say its everyone elses fault for getting hit this hard.
In the other post i was told this:
You’re a glass cannon thats why you died so quickly.
No im not i have 1.8k toughness.
You dont have enough armor, what’s your armor values.
My armor value is 2.7k, higher than a leather armor wearer.
You don’t have stunbreakers so it was your fault.
Yes i do, but this is a moot point because i wasn’t stunned, i was taken to 4k HP in essentialy one attack as thay all hit together.
You should have CC’ed him.
You can,t CC somebody who doesn’t render untill you are dead.
Well the rendering issues isn’t the thiefs fault!
True, but the rendering issue takes 1-2 seconds. Should i be able to be killed in this time anyway unless by a zerg?
You should have AoE’ed the area.
I dont have any AoE.
Now you are saying i need awerness.
How does this help me when the steal can be done from range and is instant?
You say i need more dodges.
How does this help me when their first attack leaves me with 4k HP? So i go into stealth, so do they. I come out of stealth after 3 seconds, so do they. I dodge twice, so do they… im still on 4k HP and they are on 14 lol.
If im full toughness and no DPS and still getting killed in 4 seconds then IT needs to be adressed, and i will keep asking for it to be sorted out.
4 seconds are so long…. if you were not able to do anything in 4 seconds there is something wrong.
4 seconds are pretty enough to hit 1 key… maybe the one with “decoy” or “mirror images” or “blink” …
Their opener steal>C&D>BS hits me instantly for 14k.
It doesn’t matter what way you slice it, im still sitting with +-4k HP at the start of the fight, Nothing i do can stop the initial 14k burst.
i can cast a blind between c&d and backstab.
if you take the combo and are with 4k hp you can stealth and heal yourself and go back to 9/10 k hp …
Black Thunders [BT] – Gandara
i can cast a blind between c&d and backstab.
if you take the combo and are with 4k hp you can stealth and heal yourself and go back to 9/10 k hp …
lol
Realy is pointless arguing with blinkered people, so i wont try any more.
If im full toughness and no DPS and still getting killed in 4 seconds then IT needs to be adressed, and i will keep asking for it to be sorted out.
4 seconds are so long…. if you were not able to do anything in 4 seconds there is something wrong.
4 seconds are pretty enough to hit 1 key… maybe the one with “decoy” or “mirror images” or “blink” …Their opener steal>C&D>BS hits me instantly for 14k.
It doesn’t matter what way you slice it, im still sitting with +-4k HP at the start of the fight, Nothing i do can stop the initial 14k burst.
Blinds, evasions, protection, invulnerabilities, and aegis. The combo is also not instant, and the entire combo is extremely predictable, so you shouldn’t have any trouble reacting to it.
You are alone in an open flat field. You look around and spot a thief around 2k range away from you. You are a full glass cannon and too lazy to switch skills. You look for a place where you could cover your back. Unfortunately, no cliffs, rock or walls around or any other kind of leveled terrain. Sadly, you await your fate.
Thief is closing. At 1500 range, you can attack him already. He can’t. But you think, oh he will dodge anyway. At 1200 range, most of your abilities can be used. Meh, why would I waste them if I will die anyway? Okay, now he is in 900 range. He should be instagibbing me now. OH WAIT WHAT IS HE CASTING. You can’t believe it. You see thief starting to cast CnD of certain doom. Any moment now he can port to you with op mug. In fear of death, you cower in fear, your head falls down as you accidetntly hit V on your keyboard. It hurts. You raise your head with a thought of at least showing some resistance in while in downed state. And suddenly. You are alive. With just that single V button, you avoided steal (4k damage, 45 sec cd), cnd (6k damage, 6 initiative, op stealth), backstab (10+k instant ability), basilisk venom (45 sec cd elite), assasin’s signet (30 sec cd) and one more signet of choise (30 sec cd). Furthermore, thief’s 10(or even 15) stack of mights are ticking off.
Thief realizes that he failed and is about to take a lethal damage. He finds his only (if he even has that) defensive skill on bar – shadow refuge – and hides himself in an obvious dome that he is not allowed to leave for 4 seconds.
Congratulations, you just blown away whole thief’s skill bar with a press of a button with your head.
lol
Realy is pointless arguing with blinkered people, so i wont try any more.
this is the only right sentence you wrote today…
Black Thunders [BT] – Gandara
(edited by Daendur.2357)
When a thief attacks a player from stealth, give that victim and only that player a perception buff that last for 60 seconds. This perception buff allows the victim to see through stealth, and although the thief may cloak and those around the thief can no longer see the thief, the victim with perception may continue to do so until the buff expires.
Breaking True Line of Sight may also cancel the buff.
And any time you hit a Mesmer, all of their clones disappear and they can’t summon any more for a full minute.
….
/Sarcasm
On both a guardian and a mesmer, stealth attackers are trash. On the guardian, it’s just them delaying the inevitable. On the mesmer, it’s just a chance for me to use the push/pull feature of Focus#4.
Sorry, but I’m terribad and stealth assaults are trivial.
-Hate