Guild Wars 2

There is significantly MORE heavy armor that is NOT skimpy then skimpy for females – so I hate to break it to you but arguing that there is an imbalance is arguing for more skimpy heavy armor to be made available- which I am not against There is plenty of realistic heavy, covering armor in the game – just because you may not prefer those designs doesn’t mean there is an imbalance.

azurrei.5691:

There is significantly MORE heavy armor that is NOT skimpy then skimpy for females – so I hate to break it to you but arguing that there is an imbalance is arguing for more skimpy heavy armor to be made available- which I am not against There is plenty of realistic heavy, covering armor in the game – just because you may not prefer those designs doesn’t mean there is an imbalance.

I am not arguing for more skimpy heavy armour. I have no idea where you got that idea, and frankly the fact that Anet have not gone down the oh so predictable “chainmail bikini” route is one of the reasons I love this game.

Of course, the recently released Phalanx set really made me “urgh” when I saw the female Heavy skin; bare upper breasts and thighs again for female toons, a fully covering set for males. Either have the men similarly unprotected, or don’t create sets which could pass as a “sexy warrior hallowe’en costume”.

I read in some forum once that men and women in a pre-modern setting exert their power in different ways. Men display raw strength and might, women display their power through physical desire and beauty.

I have no idea if this is true, but it seems a common theme in these games. :/

It also means trying to find nonwhorish cosplay is difficult.

It’s just our culture…sex sells. It’s in the movies, it’s on TV, it’s in comic books, it’s everywhere. Sex sells. Sex is sensationalized, women are sexualized. From birth women are trained to be baby machines. Christ I saw an ad on TV the other day for a doll that actually craps it’s diaper…REALLY!?!?!? And people actually buy this stuff for their kids!?!!? Men have battle/fighting/building toys.

In video games, it’s no different. For character design, it’s fairly simple. A vast majority of the player base, especially for RPGs is male, so they make the model the human/human-like (Norn) playable characters after what a typical male might want to look like or partner they might want to “be with”. So, why do men play women in RPGs? There are a number of reasons, even though everyone knows this, one of the main reasons is in MMOs female characters are more likely to get help and more likely to find groups…scantily clad female characters even more so. For me, I’m male, it’s much more simple. I don’t care how I’m dressed, as long as it’s not silly looking I generally equip for stats and rarely group up, but if I’m playing 1st person, I will almost always play a male character, if it’s 3rd person usually female…even with full plate armor. Why? Well, it’s simple, first person feels more like “me” while 3rd person feels more like someone I’m controlling, so if I have to spend hours looking at someone’s behind, it might as well be a girl.

Would GW2 be as successful if the female characters were more covered up? Perhaps, perhaps not, who knows. I think it’s certainly a draw to the game for some. If it bothers you that much, my suggestion is to change you race or play a non-human character such as Asura or Char…problem solved.

Leamas.5803:

It’s just our culture…sex sells. It’s in the movies, it’s on TV, it’s in comic books, it’s everywhere. Sex sells. Sex is sensationalized, women are sexualized. From birth women are trained to be baby machines. Christ I saw an ad on TV the other day for a doll that actually craps it’s diaper…REALLY!?!?!? And people actually buy this stuff for their kids!?!!? Men have battle/fighting/building toys.

In video games, it’s no different. For character design, it’s fairly simple. A vast majority of the player base, especially for RPGs is male, so they make the model the human/human-like (Norn) playable characters after what a typical male might want to look like or partner they might want to “be with”. So, why do men play women in RPGs? There are a number of reasons, even though everyone knows this, one of the main reasons is in MMOs female characters are more likely to get help and more likely to find groups…scantily clad female characters even more so. For me, I’m male, it’s much more simple. I don’t care how I’m dressed, as long as it’s not silly looking I generally equip for stats and rarely group up, but if I’m playing 1st person, I will almost always play a male character, if it’s 3rd person usually female…even with full plate armor. Why? Well, it’s simple, first person feels more like “me” while 3rd person feels more like someone I’m controlling, so if I have to spend hours looking at someone’s behind, it might as well be a girl.

Would GW2 be as successful if the female characters were more covered up? Perhaps, perhaps not, who knows. I think it’s certainly a draw to the game for some. If it bothers you that much, my suggestion is to change you race or play a non-human character such as Asura or Char…problem solved.

So you are suggesting that because sex sells and this is the reality, you simply do not question why the concept of “sex sells” exist, who are the people perpetuating such ideals, and why women’s body are subjected to constant objectification from males?
And sorry, no self-loving mother would teach their daughters to be merely be baby making machines, not in America at least, not when women have fought so hard for equal rights and to be treated equally.

I find that there’s something abhorrently wrong when straight men are given all the skimpy clothes they ever wished for so that they may play “dress their fantasy doll”, where as straight women/gay men aren’t really provided with much options. Try making a female ele with something does not show over 50% of her skin. The only thing I found that I love and still use is the Nightmare Token armor set. Really Anet, for a game that seeks to break the hetero-normative culture that dominates the video game industry, I expect much more from you.

except the “sex” presented in GW2 is not sexy. Like, not at all. It’s just showing off skin in a totally unstylish manner. It’s not pretty, it’s as if it was put there for no other reason than to fill in a criteria.

In threads like these there’s always someone patiently explaining that it’s like this because “mostly straight guys play the games.” Like some guy standing at the door to a strip club saying “We only have the strippers because for some reason only straight guys come in here…”

Leamas.5803:

It’s just our culture…sex sells. It’s in the movies, it’s on TV, it’s in comic books, it’s everywhere. Sex sells.

I am tired of seeing this argument. It’s simply not true. If it were as simple as “sex sells”, you’d see male bodies objectified and sexualised in the same way female ones are. Spoiler: that doesn’t happen. ‘Sex sells’ is a message sold in order to justify the continued exploitation of women and of female bodies.

Gillian.1859:

Really Anet, for a game that seeks to break the hetero-normative culture that dominates the video game industry, I expect much more from you.

This is like 99% of what frustrates me so much. Guild Wars has been so progressive in some areas (including same-sex relationships without so much as batting an eyelid, putting poc and women and woc into positions of high authority without so much as batting an eyelid, having so many varied human cultures rather than just generic medieval europe inspired mash…) that it grates when failures like this happen.

To reiterate, once again:

If Anet wants to make skimpy armours, of whatever weight class, for female characters, that is their prerogative. What I am requesting is that

1) where a female set is skimpy/fanservicey, the male version of that set is equally so
(particularly where a female set offers boob windows and thigh windows and midriff windows for typically melee characters – warriors and guardians – while male sets give full body protection)

2) there are more options (particularly in light armour) for players who wish to have their toons not showing so much skin (again, particularly in regard to female characters; the only humanoid male light armour set that lets me show a bit of thigh is the Tactical set, yet I have a much wider choice for humanoid female sets which show off skin of the legs)

The whole idea of skimpy + armor is silly. These armors are supposed to protect you from fatal injuries… why leave sexy bits exposed to blades and pointy sticks? It makes no sense, and it’s just sexist and stupid.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

The whole idea of skimpy + armor is silly. These armors are supposed to protect you from fatal injuries… why leave sexy bits exposed to blades and pointy sticks? It makes no sense, and it’s just sexist and stupid.

Well…to be fair, it’s not supposed to make sense. Immersion only goes so far in MMO’s. If they wanted to make it as realistic as possible, they’d have to go all in. That means no skins like SAB, Greatsaw, etc. No party boxes. No tonics. No minis. Nothin’ that either doesn’t make sense or blatantly disregards the laws of physics.

I thought all of this “fluff” was just part of the MMO experience. Isn’t that what skimpy armor and flaming weapons are all about? It’s eye candy, and not meant to be taken seriously.

applecup.3047:

Leamas.5803:

It’s just our culture…sex sells. It’s in the movies, it’s on TV, it’s in comic books, it’s everywhere. Sex sells.

I am tired of seeing this argument. It’s simply not true. If it were as simple as “sex sells”, you’d see male bodies objectified and sexualised in the same way female ones are. Spoiler: that doesn’t happen. ‘Sex sells’ is a message sold in order to justify the continued exploitation of women and of female bodies.

But it is true. I recently did a team building thing at work and it was moderated by a retired addictions counselor. During her introduction, she asked us if we knew what the most damaging addiction to marriage/work life is. I think everyone was surprised to learn it was pornography addiction.

You don’t see male bodies objectified as often, not because “sex sells” is a misnomer, but because a vast majority of mature/adult/sexual/violent media is consumed by men…not women. Look at any traditionally male targeted media, video games and comics especially, they are quite often peppered with impossibly cute and/or sexy women or are over the top violent…or both. Why is this? Even if it’s rated mature or adult, most teens can easily get their hands on this stuff because most parents seem to be afraid to say no to anything these days. They are targeting this stuff at hormonal single guys in the 15-25 range…impulse buyers with typically more expendable cash and free time than that of someone who is married with children. Yes, there are some female gamers and some who read comics, but they far fewer than their male counterparts.

I’m not saying it’s right, but this is how the North American media industry is.

Leamas.5803:

Yes, there are some female gamers and some who read comics, but they far fewer than their male counterparts.

I have no idea about comics, and I don’t know what the exact figures are for GW2, but recent surveys show that around 50% of gamers are female. This idea that women are a tiny minority of gamers also needs to die; it is horrifically inaccurate.

Obsidian.1328:

I thought all of this “fluff” was just part of the MMO experience. Isn’t that what skimpy armor and flaming weapons are all about? It’s eye candy, and not meant to be taken seriously.

If it’s “fluff”, then why are so many people opposed to the idea of parity in armour skimpiness?

Again: I am not calling for no skimpy armour. I am simply requesting that there are more non-skimpy options for those who want them, and for where armour sets for female toons are designed as skimpy, for those sets to also be (as) revealing for male characters (and vice versa, where an armour set is unrevealing, it is unrevealing for both sexes).

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

The whole idea of skimpy + armor is silly. These armors are supposed to protect you from fatal injuries… why leave sexy bits exposed to blades and pointy sticks? It makes no sense, and it’s just sexist and stupid.

does it make sense that you can shoot fireballs out of your hand, walk trough lava and get out ok and even fall from leg breaking height and walk away as if nothing happened?

applecup.3047:

Again: I am not calling for no skimpy armour. I am simply requesting that there are more non-skimpy options for those who want them, and for where armour sets for female toons are designed as skimpy, for those sets to also be (as) revealing for male characters (and vice versa, where an armour set is unrevealing, it is unrevealing for both sexes).

Two things:

1) I agree with you there should be more options in that regard.

2) Dudes just don’t look as appealing showing skin.

Seinfeld clip

applecup.3047:

Leamas.5803:

Yes, there are some female gamers and some who read comics, but they far fewer than their male counterparts.

I have no idea about comics, and I don’t know what the exact figures are for GW2, but recent surveys show that around 50% of gamers are female. This idea that women are a tiny minority of gamers also needs to die; it is horrifically inaccurate.

Yes, I stand corrected, nearly 50% of gamers are women, but women spend less money, less time playing, are far less likely to play video games as a primary hobby and, oddly, more likely to feel guilty about playing. Also women are less likely to be playing Strategy, Role Playing, Action, and Fighting games while they are more likely to be playing Social, Puzzle/Card, Music/Dance, Educational, and Simulation games. So yes, while women do compose about 1/2 the gaming community, more than 1/2 in some demographics, it doesn’t mean we’re playing the same games for the same amount of time. I suppose I should have qualified the RPG genre. An MMO may be a little different than a standard RPG in that it has a social aspect that many women tend to like, but typically the goals between men and women are vastly different. It doesn’t change the fact that GW2 is marketed to attract the male player population.

So with GW2 the ratio could generously be as high as 25-30% women, though I personally think it’s more like 10-20%. In my circle of friends, in my original guild, I knew 3 out of 20 players were women, only two played seriously, one played entirely for the social aspect and never did more difficult content. The other is the only one is still playing and does mostly WvW. I know one other woman who plays WoW fairly seriously and one who plays Counterstrike.

A small 2012 study on the male vs. female video game community.
http://usabilitynews.org/video-games-males-prefer-violence-while-females-prefer-social/

applecup.3047:

What I am tired of is the imbalance between male and female armour design.

I admit I have female characters mostly because they are more enjoyable to look at.

That being said, I would also like to give a female character the option to have full robes/heavy armor in the same styles as the male characters have.
Maybe make a different skin that you can buy.
Want heavy female vigil armor that covers everything? give the option to buy either the current skimpy(ish) armor or a full suit like the male version. On the same token, the CM armor looks exactly the same for male and female. maybe add a skimpy version to them as well, just to keep things even.

Yes I really don’t understand how some armour sets (like phoenix for example) look COMPLETELY different depending on gender, and I think it is unfair in that regard.

I also noticed in the thread ‘post your elementalist’ (or something along the lines of that), that I would say the majority of characters were roughly 90-95% female. I was struggling trying to find male elementalist outfits for me to gain some inspiration from! And I found that quite frustrating.

Why should people have to change genders to get a completely different look for their armour? It just makes NO sense!

I personally would also like to see more skin-revealing coats/tops/chests for male characters, especially in the ‘light’ professions. I see so many robe-like tops and it’s almost ridiculous – it is no wonder so many elementalists go female for better outfits. I’d like to see more tops that show some abs, like the ‘feathered’ top, or the ‘vigil’ garb for showing a bit of arm. That would be nice.

When it comes to light armor, I wish there were more elaborate ‘robe’ styles for female. Too many of them look like something to wear to a high class noble party, not to go stomping around in Orr.

The general design for a mage (and light armor) have long flowing robes. There’s plenty of that for male, but most of the female equivalents are a fancy dress-skirt, usually with the bare legs showing. And so many outfits show off the female midriff, while guys have theirs covered. Mages generally don’t have a strong physique, and most fashion designs go off on ’hide the skinny male mage and show off the skinny female mage."

the Shadow and Tactical armor (karma bought) looked really nice, but they have bones and skulls. It would only really match a necromancer, and not a mesmer/elementalist. And the female devout is the only one that really look like robes. But it’s so…simple in design.

Wish they’d make armors for females that were like Hilde’s from Soul Calibur.

http://soulcalibur.wikia.com/wiki/Hilde Though that game has some REALLY revealing armors for their women…but hey Hilde.

I’d rather female armors start to go in that direction then the idea of less is better. >.>
More dignity for our ladies thank you ANET.

well, the leather armor is actually the most closed down armor line there is, i can only remember 2 armors in the entire line that looks revealing. (not skimpy mind you)
so since you brought up Hilde, let me bring up Ivy
http://soulcalibur.wikia.com/wiki/Ivy
she does have sexy armor on, however, some costumes she has are actually not skimpy, just sexy.

do know the difference between skimpy and sexy, a skimpy armor can be really dull and sexy armor can be completely closed up.
IMO they have plenty of skimpy armors but not even one sexy armor, i think that’s what we need.

sorudo.9054:

well, the leather armor is actually the most closed down armor line there is, i can only remember 2 armors in the entire line that looks revealing. (not skimpy mind you).

Yeah, I was trying to find something that showed off my Norn ranger’s full arm and leg tattoos, and the leather armor is mostly very full-coverage. Especially from the back, which is mainly where I’m looking at her.

applecup.3047:

If you want to show off some leg (or midriff, or underboob, or cleavage) on a female toon…

I was dismayed when I learned the human T3 cultural medium armor had underboob – something I learned aftr dropping gold on it.

sorudo.9054:

Since you brought up Hilde, let me bring up Ivy
http://soulcalibur.wikia.com/wiki/Ivy
she does have sexy armor on, however, some costumes she has are actually not skimpy, just sexy.

LOL! You aren’t helping your case much with that link. I never heard of Ivy, but I watched your videos. She usually sports an underboob style, thigh-high spiked heel hoochie-mama boots, and always wears a thong with thighs that go up past her belly button. That is skimpy, and is only sexy if a dominatrix is your thing.

Maybe in other parts of the game, but in those vids she’s a hooker gone wild.

I’m kinda confused about what you’re arguing for? Less skimpy armor for women or more skimpy armor for men? I personally would like to see more armor that can make male toons look like a stud. Let’s get some chest, delts, thighs, and biceps in the mix.

Mek.2947:

I’m kinda confused about what you’re arguing for? Less skimpy armor for women or more skimpy armor for men? I personally would like to see more armor that can make male toons look like a stud. Let’s get some chest, delts, thighs, and biceps in the mix.

The OP wants both. Just “equal” sets.

As loud as the “equality for the sexes” crowd shouts, believe it or not men and women are different. That’s what’s so great! As far as game play goes, there is zero difference. If it were real life, the majority of male characters would be physically stronger. So the females are already ahead there. (And they’ve always had the physical beauty prize).

This is a matter of people’s perception of style, and of how far they want their “realism” to go. It is just a game, driven by sales. And yes, sex does sell as has been proven time and again. So naturally every character is a youthful supermodel and there are plenty of impractical outfits.

The OP is right. There is no reason why armor “sets” could not be more similar for both sexes. That was mostly the case in GW1. There could also be a greater equality in the quantity of both “realistic” and “revealing” armors, so that both sides of the debate could find some satisfaction. This will come with time, I am sure. New armors will likely arrive at least once a year if not more often.

These pics are not “sets”. I am a die-hard mix ‘n’ matcher. I think it’s safe to say there’s a nice variety currently available for everybody, from sexy to sensible. You just need to use your imagination (and a good armor preview site ) The point being, I am sure you can come up with something that will make you happy if you put your mind to it.

I agree that the equality between the male and female sets just isn’t there. The male and female variants should look like they come from the same set and if one is revealing, the other should be too!

I don’t feel a need for realism in the game. Fantasy art often shows both male and female characters with more skin showing then is sensible, but it is sexy. If the world of Tyria had real dangers of bleeding out, cuts and scars (other then those chosen in character creation), and dying then maybe we might want to hide our beautiful skin away in full suits of plate. This isn’t the real world though. We have magic to cure all wounds and we come back good as new after death.

The women of Tyria have obviously overcome their shyness and feel comfortable showing more skin. Now it is time for the males to do so too!