Guild Wars 2

The below is a lengthy post and it is meant as a feedback for GW2 game designers.

Everytime you got killed in WvW, you are liable for repair bill. This is capping my play and enjoyment of pvp in WvW. Most of the time, I dare not venture out without a big zerg group because of the insane repair bill. This is essentially capping play innovation and risk taking in WvW. The end result is all I see day in and day out are zerg group moving in large number fighting and capturing objective. I have not yet seen any other good tactics that involve small groups because there is a price to pay for getting killed.

I am making the above statement contrasting my 6 years of battleground experience in World of Warcraft (which I have dumped for some reasons to play GW2) where there is no repair bill for getting killed (but you do incurred minor damage bill for taking fall damages etc.). I enjoyed my pvp so much that I stayed 6 years with Wow. But I am feeling so cramped up in my play style here in GW2. I tried hard to enjoy it but the repair is putting a damper on it. It sucks and probably something telling of the game design when you have to visit the repair NPC so often in a game. (Ok, let not discuss whether I sucks as a player which explains why I need to visit the repair NPC so often. But hey, noob players also want to have fun. What is the point of playing a game when you cannot have fun. And if a game requires every players to be top notch skilled player in order to have fun, it probably fails as an entertainment. It shouldn’t be termed as a game in the first place by definition.)

I know for sure, at least from my personal perspective, that any business model that leverage upon generating revenue from taking numerous small penalty from the games’ main attraction (pvp) is going to fail. EveOnline is the best example. It is a fantastically great game and is very deep but it fails because of the heavy penalty players need to pay for pvp death. (Just for history sake, I was playing EveOnline for a while too but I have since gave up due to the heavy death penalty in pvp. For the seriousness and level of skills you need in EveOnline in order to enjoy it, I don’t see it as a game entertainment. It is more like a simulation model for people who thrive in politicking, analysis and calculation modeling to fight each other. You really calculate your tradeoff of losses incurred vs potential reward to be gained before you go out to pvp others. I don’t enjoy it as much as I enjoy Wow because most of the time, I am just doing nothing sitting inside the space station waiting for a good rare risk-reward opportunity to come by. And I am starting to find myself similarly sitting in Citadel here in GW2 waiting for a big zerg group to form before I can engage myself in battle.)

Can I suggest to remove the repair bill incurred from getting killed in WvW or PvP? If GW2 want to earn money, can I suggest that we have an upgrade which can cost 100 golds or 200 golds or 1000 golds whereupon you do not need to repair your gear (immnue to damage) for a period of one year etc.

Put fun into this game, and not burdens upon the players, please. I love this game and I hate to leave this game, and I wish I don’t have to.

I too was surprised that one would get a repair bill from PvPing. Nobody gets survivor title doing PvP, and nobody should. You’re supposed to die multiple horrible deaths. You’re not supposed to go into virtual poverty to play WvW.

/signed

In PvE I get it, if you die most times you or your team messed up. In PvP you have very little control over death. Even the best PvPer is gona die. I know lots of people that are not playing PvP because of the coin cost. People like my wife where this is their first time messing around with PvP are mortified with the cost and some now flat out refuse to play it. Death penalty in PvP is a fool move. I get money sinks but some things just should not have them. And I have to admit between PvP costs and WP costs I am getting a little frustrated and close to upset.

I earned more than what I lost in WvW.

Even the best PvPer dies; however, he’ll be easily rich and the cost of his repair bill is miniscule. Compared to brainless zerglings that extended too far.

Don’t want to die? Here is a good tip, stay with the group. Learn when to back off and when to push.

runeblade.7514:

I earned more than what I lost in WvW.

Even the best PvPer dies; however, he’ll be easily rich and the cost of his repair bill is miniscule. Compared to brainless zerglings that extended too far.

Don’t want to die? Here is a good tip, stay with the group. Learn when to back off and when to push.

True but time in PvE (where I can control my death) vs money earned in WvW (with no control on death) the money earned in WvW almost nil. I rather they lowered how much you make and removed the penalty.

I’m not very good at PvP, but my rate of death in WvW is only slightly higher than my death rate in PvE. (I’m not careful enough in WvW about how far I chase stragglers.)

But even at my worst death rate in WvW (the first few hours of play), my income far exceeded my repair bill. Actually, I’d be willing to pay double that if it meant I didn’t have to run back to my last location from the repair NPC — I believe it costs me more to lose the time spent returning to the battle than I spend on fixing my armor.

I believe they should replace the repair armor costs from WvW with an effect.

Let’s call it… Oh, yeah. Let’s bring back the name from GW1: Dishonorable.

If you spend too much time without participating in an event, building something, repairing something, fighting enemies or well, without doing WvW (let’s say 5 stacks every 15 minutes as an example), and if you are defeated, you get this boon. After a certain amount of stacks let’s say, for example… 50, you are kicked out of WvW, leaving your slot for another player. You can still rejoin, but in the queue, you’ll be sent behind people with less stacks than you.

Each instance of the boon will expire after a fixed amount of time. Let’s say 15 minutes as an example. So, with time, you’ll go back to the front of the queue and get preference again.

If you get killed too many times or spend way to many time without helping… Bonk!! Back to where you were before you joined WvW.

With the example numbers, you’ll be kicked after 50 consecutive deaths within 15 minutes, and will regain full preference (the same as someone with no stacks) after 12 hours, and will be kicked out if you spend more than 2 hours walking around without doing WvW. More than enough time for a puzzle.
These are just example numbers to get an idea, so they’ll have to be properly adjusted.

So, if you are not good at fighting, you can, instead do something like pushing Supply to repair stuff, or help build siege while your dishonorable stacks decrease.

This will both address and alleviate the problem of costs from being defeated again enemies, and people going around in WvW without helping.

Alternatively, there could be durability in items.
A level 0 basic item would have just 2 durability, while a level 80 basic item would have 82.
A legendary level 80 item would have 250 durability.
When defeated by a monsters, you’ll lose durability based on the level of the enemy that dealtthe finishing blow.
When defeated by a player, only 1.
This would keep the cost, but greatly decrease it when defeated by players, while keeping it when defeated by monsters in WvW.

Or maybe it could be a mix of both versions. Variable durability vs monsters + Dishonorable vs players.

This, more than any other factor, is what keeps me out of WvW. I like to explore and try new things in PvP – I don’t like paying huge repair costs for doing those things.

Totally agree. Remove repair costs. To balance that, remove gear drops from PVP. Make bags have a chance of getting a random blueprint instead, and drop more badges of justice. Also, remove the gold cost from blueprints, and make them buyable with badges of justice only.

PVE gold should have no effect in PVP. Sure, you may make money in WvW by staying in the zerg. But as the OP mentioned, it removes exploration, experimentation. If I go into a map we do not have anything in, try a point get killed 1-2 times by the zerg, then I’ll just leave. It puts a greater burden on the undermanned server, as they will die more often and incur larger repair penalties. An actual gold penalty for being undermanned…

/signed

This is a huge issue

I was personally about to create a topic about exactly the same thing, and I found this!

I completely agree, repair costs should be removed from WvW, just like how there is no repair costs for sPvP. Why? I have personally seen many people run from battles just so they don’t have to pay for repairs. I’ve seen people suicide off cliffs since fall damage does not cause broken armor. THIS IS RIDICULOUS. Suiciding should CAUSE your armor to break, not PREVENT it.

Of course, to offset the lack of a money sink, I believe that the event rewards should also be reduced accordingly.

If you (Anet) are unwilling to completely remove repair costs, then make the Outmanned buff be “Armor does not break”, which would be a lot better than +magic find, since if you’re outmanned, it’s unlikely you’re going to be looting anything anyway.

Also, on that note, it seems your team has to be outmanned by A LOT before the outmanned buff kicks in. A 3:2 ratio isn’t enough to cause the outmanned buff, even though 3:2 means you’re obviously outmanned.

/signed

runeblade.7514:

I earned more than what I lost in WvW.

Even the best PvPer dies; however, he’ll be easily rich and the cost of his repair bill is miniscule. Compared to brainless zerglings that extended too far.

Don’t want to die? Here is a good tip, stay with the group. Learn when to back off and when to push.

When your team is outmanned and camped into their spawn, you’re gonna be losing money.

Stay with the group? LOL. When you’re that outmanned, there IS NO GROUP.

I agree that we shouldn’t have repair bills in WvW. Having to go to a way point potentially really far from the action and traversing hostile territory without your squad is penalty enough. I hate having to worry about whether I can afford to fight to the death.

Want to point out a couple of things.

1. With no death penalty in WvW you could just zerg rush a tower all day with no worries no fear of death besides the long walk back.

2. Not wanting to die will make you look for different strategies. I understand that some people don’t enjoy that but in that case you follow the person with the plan.

3. I would suggest howerver, when you are outnumbered (the outmanned buff or whatever it its called) your armor is 1/2 as likely to be damaged and 1/4 as likely to break or somthing to that effect. You will still have to be carefull but it won’t make you want to rage quit

just my 2 cents worth

I was going to post this exact topic the other day but I forgot, thank you for bringing it up! Anyone who opposes this idea must be trolls, really no idea why this would be anything worse than a good idea. I would understand repair bills for PvE but PvP should never punish death, it doesn’t sound right.

Pay 13 silver for dying 6 times… in PvP… and WvW… where there are hundreds of players. I don’t get it.

The repair bill is basically the reason why I don’t do WvW…I understand some sort of “death penalty”, I would say do something like GW1 with the reduced health thing but there would be no reason to stick around in WvW if you were at 60% reduced health…easy kill then…the distance run is indeed a punishment.

This OR make it so siege equipment doesn’t cost actual gold.

Or both, I would be okay with both.

Agreed and signed, Lo

I think a better solution would be too have PVP do 1/10th that PVE does to gear when you are downed.

Agreed wholeheartedly. Death penalties in WvW are killing the experience by making risk taking too costly and turning the whole thing into a boring zergfest. The developers should also remember that they stated in the past there would be no death penalties and they were opposed to them, and changing their mind on this has hurt their credibility. There is enough nickel and diming in this game as it is. Do you really need to torpedo WvW with this as well?

PVP in WoW was the only reason I stayed with that game. What I loved about it is that as I became more skilled I developed innovative tactics that i could use on my own and which were often very effective. These tactics required a lot of trial and error all of which were fun to test and discover and all of which were made possible by the fact that i wasn’t risking a massive repair bill experimenting with them.

That sort of trial and error innovation and experimentation with solo tactics is impossible in this game for me, as the cost in repairs would bankrupt me. So by necessity I do something I always avoided doing in WoW: running with the zerg like a mindless herd animal, which has its moments but for the most part just isn’t much fun.

Agreed, I understand its a gold sink, Anet has placed multiple gold sinks into the game hoping to keep prices down for newer players…and since u do earn items off player kills to gain gold they most likely thought it even’ed out (and if u play smart and very…chicken like u can make a profit even with deaths) I would just like to have repair costs removed + item loot from players removed to even it out…the only item that should drop from players are badges

perhaps an option to use badges of honor for wvw repairs.

Well, you could just go out naked into WvW. No repair bills there.

Perhaps we should make a repair bill awareness day and motivate a lot of people to fight naked in WvW to save everyone the repair bills.

/signed

Yeah, at first the repair bills didn’t really bother me… until I got better gear, higher lvls, and started doing WvW. It was rather annoying being camped at the main base trying to push people and seige weapons off just to die and end up back where I started, going in with a couple silver and leaving with a few copper left, or even going down to do the puzzles and having enemies with siege weapons (they most def should not be allowed down there) sitting and waiting for people to kill. The repair cost should be removed, doesn’t make any sense keeping it, already have to spend money on transportation since there aren’t any mounts on these rather big areas, only having to rely on swiftness boons if you want to move faster

Repair bill in WvW is stupid. Do they want people to stop playing WvW to ease the servers?

I would also have to agree on this – I took a mid level character into WvW recently (first time in on live), and if the repair bills I paid on that character (mix of greens and blues) translates to level 80 with exotic gear, I would also have to agree and say the cost of repair bills in WvW would severely curtail my WvW activities.

As a result, with the greatest respect to ArenaNet, I would also like to add my “vote” to remove, or drastically reduce, repair costs in WvW please.

Yeah it would be awesome if they removed it, I constantly lose money just by playing wvw.

i would love no repair cost in World vs World there are a lot of fights. i will not even bother to try helping in if it will have chance to costing me money. only way you make money in World vs World is to kill like 100x more then your deaths

I stopped doing WvW because of the repair cost. I guess they need a gold sink for WvW but it seems like they could have come up with something more creative.

“I too was surprised that one would get a repair bill from PvPing. Nobody gets survivor title doing PvP, and nobody should. You’re supposed to die multiple horrible deaths. You’re not supposed to go into virtual poverty to play WvW.”

I got monthly survivor doing WvW once = P

That said, the repair bill needs to go. 6 silver A PIECE on an exotic set is insane.

/signed

Would do more WvW if the repair bill was reduced here. Even lowering it by 50% etc would help.

Like someone mentioned above, another method of paying for repairs would be good in WvW.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Alternatively, there could be durability in items.
A level 0 basic item would have just 2 durability, while a level 80 basic item would have 82.
A legendary level 80 item would have 250 durability.
When defeated by a monsters, you’ll lose durability based on the level of the enemy that dealtthe finishing blow.
When defeated by a player, only 1.
This would keep the cost, but greatly decrease it when defeated by players, while keeping it when defeated by monsters in WvW.

This has to be, by far, one of the best suggestions I have seen made thus far. I support the idea of having a repair bill for participating in WvW; it’s asinine to expect fighting to be free. However, I will agree that the price can, sometimes, be a bit too high. I’m not going to be one of those ‘you just need to learn how to make money’ players, but I will admit that I usually end up leaving WvW with more money than I started out with, and that is after participating in the ‘raids’ and PvP content, as well as paying for repairs.

“Would do more WvW if the repair bill was reduced here. Even lowering it by 50% etc would help.

Like someone mentioned above, another method of paying for repairs would be good in WvW."

Actually, just lowering the cost to that of a blue item of the same level would basically fix the issue.

I originally noticed my armour cost me about 1 silver per damaged piece when I was a mix of greens and blues.

I noticed that went to the high twos/low threes for silver per piece when I got all yellows.

I finished my exotic set and wow. 6+ silver a piece is kitten Lowering a full damage from 72 silver (!) to the more normal 12 silver would help a lot. Granted they did start dropping way better cash from mobs now.

yandere.9176:

Well, you could just go out naked into WvW. No repair bills there.

Perhaps we should make a repair bill awareness day and motivate a lot of people to fight naked in WvW to save everyone the repair bills.

I am starting to see increasingly more ppl going naked in WvW. Perhaps I should join them to save on the repair bill. Perhaps all of us should do a “Occupy WvW movement” and go all naked in WvW to protest against the repair bill.

Repair bill is like a transaction tax. You are taxed everytime you participate. The more you participate, the more you are taxed. And it is discriminatory. The lesser skilled you are (which translate to more deaths) the more you are taxed. The more skilled players will pay less tax and earn more from loot. The rich gets richer. The poor gets poorer. Say no to more taxes. Say no to more burdens. Say yes to more participation. Say yes to more fun.

:)