Guild Wars 2

Ok, I have run a few dungeons… enough to realize that fights are just one big clusterkitten when it comes to agro.

Sure there are “tanky” classes maybe but they cant hold agro at all. As a thief, I pull agro off them the second i start attacking. I have tried waiting 15 sec and then attacking.

I kinda like the everyone with some aoe healing ability thing but not every class can tank. If I want survivability I have to sacrifice damage and that still only gets me so far.

So I suggest that we give these tanky classes some tank skills. Something to glue mobs to them or at least be able to pull em off others.

So in effect you’re asking for taunts.

No trinity builds. I like not having to look for a “tank” and a “healer” anymore. However I think LZ has the idea, you want taunts perhaps from warrior and guardian seeing as how they are the “beefy” professions.

vernriley.8063:

If I want survivability I have to sacrifice damage and that still only gets me so far.

well guess what? damage aint everything in a dungeon. YOU need to be responsible for your OWN life, might be ppl in your group that might be able to help making it easier but they want do it FOR you.

So NO to tank classes, would make the dungeons just as boring as any other generic MMORPG dungeon is

You can already control the enemy mobs quite well. I don’t see the need for gluing them to one player, and honestly?
It makes no sense.
What sort of opponent would pick a target, go after it and then do 180 and run to the opposite side of the hall to fight another player with clearly stronger armor just because he shouted something like “your mother was a hamster and your father smelled like elderberries”? Maybe an Orc, but that’s about it.

NinjaEd.3946:

No trinity builds. I like not having to look for a “tank” and a “healer” anymore.

^ This.

But I can understand it is rather frustrating because many of us are so used to the holy trinity concept. I’m still trying to break the habit of barrelling into a mob, wanting to tank it. :P Aaand, yeah…then quickly reminded I’m playing a DIFFERENT game.

Sounds like someone wants to sit in a corner going over their rotation while pretending to be l33t to me. The games designed like this and it works fine.

I would like everyone to be able to taunt and tank and heal in their special way. A warrior would taunt and take the damage himself. A ranger would pet-tank. An elementalist might prevent the enemy from moving with ice and so on… And everyone should be able to taunt an enemy to help a friend in need.

beside, if you add dedicated tanking, you would HAVE to add dedicated healing healing too, since with the amount of healing in this game noone can stand and take ALL the dmg all the time. and yes that INCLUDES guardians even they cant stand toe to toe with a dungeon boss and take all his dmg without dieing

Both Guardian and Warrior already have some nice control skills to keep enemies in range, particularly when talking hammer skills.

Guardian in particular has Ring of Warding which prevents mobs trapped inside from leaving the area.

Warrior has the burst skill Earthshaker, which if you build properly, can be activated twice in quick succession, as well as Hammer Shock for a cone of cripple.

There’s other skills that can be used to control mobs effectively as well, such as a Ranger’s Entangle.

Hate or whatever you want to call it always feels incredibly contrived whatever implementation is used. I much prefer having to think about how I’m going to prevent mobs losing interest.

GummiBear.2756:

beside, if you add dedicated tanking, you would HAVE to add dedicated healing healing too, since with the amount of healing in this game noone can stand and take ALL the dmg all the time. and yes that INCLUDES guardians even they cant stand toe to toe with a dungeon boss and take all his dmg without dieing

I think tanking and healing would be good to have more of. It could be done without dedicate a profession for it. I think all classes should be able to do it in their own way.

lingonberry.6983:

I think tanking and healing would be good to have more of. It could be done without dedicate a profession for it. I think all classes should be able to do it in their own way.

refer to my first post for that

All clases can ‘tank’. For example, elementalists have “Obsidian Flesh” warriors have “Endure Pain” . Even thieves can keep an enemy permanently blinded for a few seconds.
You can push enemies around, juggle them, blind them, weaken them, knock them down, become invulnerable, block…
There’s lots of ways to prevent their damage.

Just don’t ask for any profession that can do that indefinitely.
Once your time runs out, get out and let someone take the hits while you recover.

This is not needed. At all. As a thief, I can maintain damage while evading and blinding, effectively keeping big groups busy by myself until I get caught on CD, then I can hit stealth and someone else can take the brunt for me.

You don’t need any trinity roles. You just need to play well.

vernriley.8063:

Ok, I have run a few dungeons… enough to realize that fights are just one big clusterkitten when it comes to agro.

Sure there are “tanky” classes maybe but they cant hold agro at all. As a thief, I pull agro off them the second i start attacking. I have tried waiting 15 sec and then attacking.

I kinda like the everyone with some aoe healing ability thing but not every class can tank. If I want survivability I have to sacrifice damage and that still only gets me so far.

So I suggest that we give these tanky classes some tank skills. Something to glue mobs to them or at least be able to pull em off others.

You can do the pulling / pushing off / stopping damage / losing aggro:

-Knockbacks, Launches, Stuns, Dazes, Roots, Knockdowns
-Guardian Greatsword 5 can pull off
-Mesmer Focus 4 can pull off
-Thief Scorpion Wire Utility can pull off
-Ele Conjure Earth Shield 4 can pull off
-Necro Spectral Grasp Utility can pull off
-Blind (either skills of Combo Fields / Finishers)
-Stealth (either Skills of Combo Fields / Finishers)
-Weakness (50% chance of 50% damage)

So there’s no need to have skills that steal aggro. You just need to be a bit more creative.

Why are we even discussing this?
I’m playing a guardian and I can’t withstand aggro from most bosses in dungeons for longer than 10 secs.

If you are a thief and you keep dying you are either not taking advantage of all the great movement skills you get or you are specced wrong.

I’m skilled all out Toughness and Healing Power but that ain’t gonna block a 20k-crit-kill-shot. CoE anyone?

Necro can pull and actually be desruptiors (well its the only thing they can do in pvp), Mesmers are beasts since no npc is actually smart enough to ignore illusions, Guardians have a kittenon of nice peel off them attack me mechanics, warriors can just bullrush and immob a enemy on the place or tank for 7 seconds with mace shield… even if you are good you can use a thief for evade tanking or turret engie repair kite.

DaWolv.8503 you aint supposed to do that either, kite, heal, tank 1 important hit, kite again.

The dungeons do seem a bit overpowered for the level they claim to be for and the sheer number of mobs which can’t be pulled in small numbers – they all come together at once- is ridiculous. Example: CM SM…OMFGawd! My group were all well over the level of the dungeon with the extra traits etc, were a well rounded group with obviously skilled players….but it was , as the OP stated…one huge cluster F with wipe outs galore due to the sheer numbers and over-and-above the difficulty for the level of the dungeon. I’m not asking for a cake walk because that would be boring as all heck but seriously, some tweaking needs to be done to make the difficulty level of these dungeons match the stated level they are supposed to be.

No! I say NO!!

hehe, we dont need “tanks” not at all, people just need to realize that if they go glass cannon, they will die fast. If you are not skilled enough to dodge out of ANIMATED attacks and aoe, then don’t go glass cannon. Dungeons are all fine. (I can solo dungeons, got pictures, but my words ain’t proof, I know)

Honestly, it should be a luxury to go glass cannon. If you are skilled enough, then do, if not, then don’t. Then you have something to strive for.

But no, we definitely do NOT need to do what every game had done and go the route of the holy trinity.

try playing gw2 like a first person shooter.
such as call of duty or etc.

you are responsible for your own survival.

“needed” hardly… combat isn’t supposed to be all nice neat and organized, and I personally find that chaotic combat makes it far more interesting, much more then that of, “okay guy’s Ima pull the big bad dragon boss over here into this corner so he can only breath on me yada yada blah blah blah…I’m already bored…”
That being said what really is needed is some sort of system to prevent just zerging a boss down because that’s just wrong.

Holy trinity was a dumbed down version of what we had in EQ. Fact is that MMO combat has actually evolved into something much simpler than what it actually was in a good group in EverQuest. EQ had a lot more different roles than 3. They could be mixed in various ways for success. You didn’t need a single special composition to succeed, like you do in 90% of MMO’s today.

It’s the trend of games, they are all being dumbed down unfortunately.

I think that if we had a Crowd Control system that could lessen the toughness of dungeons. Maybe give each class some type of ability to impair a mob for X amount of time. I know I am always pulling agro and it’s hard when there are three of four mobs running around randomly attacking your group. I’m not sure if this is true with everyone but this is my experience so far in my dungeon runs.

“Tanky” classes like Warriors and Guardians already have skills to pull enemies off you.

Also Thiefs don’t have to sacrifice damage to increase their survivability. Look at the “Acrobatics” tree of traits. Putting 25 points into it gets you +25% boon duration and 250 Vitality, 2 seconds of Swiftness on Dodge, Endurance returned on dodge (effectively giving you 3 dodges instead of 2), and 10% damage increase when Endurance is not full. Then there’s a nice major trait that gives you Might when you dodge and you’ll have a 2nd major slot left open.

I have a guardian. I can tank… and i’m doing it all the time.

If you want i can show you my build and make a video that sohw you how i do.
If there is party coordianation, no need taunt.

lingonberry.6983:

GummiBear.2756:

beside, if you add dedicated tanking, you would HAVE to add dedicated healing healing too, since with the amount of healing in this game noone can stand and take ALL the dmg all the time. and yes that INCLUDES guardians even they cant stand toe to toe with a dungeon boss and take all his dmg without dieing

I think tanking and healing would be good to have more of. It could be done without dedicate a profession for it. I think all classes should be able to do it in their own way.

All classes can heal, There are healing fields and every class has something they can use IN the healing fields to trigger aoe regen or a huge aoe heal. You should probably figure out who has them in your group and ask them to put them in stratigic locations that way you can use blast or projectile finishers in them to trigger some heals, you can trigger HUGE heals if more than one person uses their finishers at the saem time when they see the fields up. =)

All classes can tank, all classes have access to defensive abilities and stats, Each class is what you make of it. My Elemetalist often “tanks” meaning takes hits for the group in instances.

Thank you Anet!

Deimos Tel Arin.7391 – how is a active dodge system with taunts as easy as hold both mouse buttons while wall jumping and instakilling with daggers despite you being full of led because of 3 semi automatics but still not dead?

If your encounter is chaotic, then perhaps you need more of these skills:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cripple#Skills_that_cripple
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chill#Related_skills
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Immobilize#Skills_that_immobilize
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun#Skills_that_stun
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fear#Related_skills
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Launch#Related_skills
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Knockdown#Related_skills
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ward

I prefer the game the way it is. Its alot more fun than sitting in a corner spamming 1 and 2 while someone pulls aggro then kites.

Mara Gossep.2761:

Holy trinity was a dumbed down version of what we had in EQ. Fact is that MMO combat has actually evolved into something much simpler than what it actually was in a good group in EverQuest. EQ had a lot more different roles than 3. They could be mixed in various ways for success. You didn’t need a single special composition to succeed, like you do in 90% of MMO’s today.

It’s the trend of games, they are all being dumbed down unfortunately.

You are right. I played EQ1 and loved it! They had more than the trinity and each was viable in their own way solo and group wise. I also loved that night time was actually…dark. You could only see a few meters in any direction and a bit more if you had a light source on you. I still remember the “wall walking” at night in Kithicore hoping all to heck the dark didn’t hide the uber mobs that would spawn in that zone at night. That game was challenging and fun and had a wide variety of play styles available. kitten I loved that game. Thanks for bringing back some really great memories.