Guild Wars 2

This is a pretty discussed topic. I though i’d open a thread about it, to hear some more opinions out there and also post mine.

Firstly, mine are devided as following:

In PVE: the system is very innovating. A great way to give a player who “bit more than he can chew” a way to be able to get back on his feet. Also a breath of fresh air during dungeons. And the fact that other people can ressurect u faster, only makes a party much tighter and brings people together. So A+ for the downed system in pve.

In PVP: The worst possible idea for both SPVP and WvW. It ruins the pvp feel at so many levels. It takes away the sense of acomplishment when killing someone, they just go into a downed state with the possibility of ressurecting . It encourages zerging (to ressurect). It forces some abilities on your skillbar, that would otherwise be useless to your current build (like balance stances, quickness etc). The finishing animation takes too long, sometimes you lose half health or more just by doing it. When finishing some classes, the move is completely useless (ex: thieves and mesmers) i just attack they;re downed corpses (which is annoyingly not fun and stupid), cause i cant risk doing that animation like 3-4 times before they run out of “downed abilities”. Or it gives birth to some awful situations. Like one time there was this dude in spvp with me, very decent player (playing a warrior). At one point he was facing 2 enemies, a thief and a guardian (i think both were glass cannons). By pure skill he actually manages to pull it off and down both players, barely, just to be downed himself in a couple of secs by that auto attack downed ability of the other two. Closely afterwards another adversary comes, he hits the warrior a couple of times, warrior dies, the other 2 immidiately go up. The CONCLUSION? the game actually rewarded situational luck and punished skill. And this is not the only example, the game is full of such scenarios, this wasn’t like a seldom event, as im sure those of u who practice pvp know.

The way i see it there are 2 ways they could fix this:

1.Take out downed mechanic in WvW and SPVP. Which is very plausable and RELATIVELY easy to implement (for those of you who think it’s some kind of core mechanic, that cannot be taken out being the very fabric of time and space and the whole world would colapse). – being ironic.

2.Twick it. Take off some abilities, or make the ending animation much more faster. And i mean MUCH MORE. Take off the ability to be ressurected by some1, or the other way around. Take out the ability to res yourself, and only be ressed by some1 else. Etc , it can go a lot of ways, im going to stop here.

In WvW, the (current) downed system encourages zerg-like behaviour.

The worst part is the imbalance between them. Compare Warrior down state, which is useless against more than one opponent, to Elementalist down state with the instan Vapour Form which lets you suicide without any risk as long as there is either a zerg of friendly players or a keep to scamper back into.

If they removed down states in WvW, a lot of the imbalance concerning Elementalists would go away because they can no longer take risks that would guarantee a death for any other Profession.

Oglaf.1074:

The worst part is the imbalance between them. Compare Warrior down state, which is useless against more than one opponent, to Elementalist down state with the instan Vapour Form which lets you suicide without any risk as long as there is either a zerg of friendly players or a keep to scamper back into.

If they removed down states in WvW, a lot of the imbalance concerning Elementalists would go away because they can no longer take risks that would guarantee a death for any other Profession.

+1 , i do agree.

I’ll give you my support… through this useless amount of text…
Anyway, I agree!

Personally I like the downed state in WvW. A couple tweaks would be nice. For example I do not think you should be able to go through a keep door in a downed state (mist form or any other way). Overall I like what downed state adds to WvW. Seeing people risk themselves to rez an ally, zergs having to think twice about simply running over smaller groups vs taking time to down some players etc. I have found the downed state a truly good addition to WvW. yea it can be frustrating at times, but I think WvW is better with it then without it

Absolutely agree with this and been saying it since i bought the game day 1. I also do believe anet will remove downed state for spvp one day but as i said, one day and that could be in years (took them 7 years to change exhaustion in gw1…)

Nuka Cola.8520:

Absolutely agree with this and been saying it since i bought the game day 1. I also do believe anet will remove downed state for spvp one day but as i said, one day and that could be in years (took them 7 years to change exhaustion in gw1…)

Lets hope someone will take our plees in consideration since it’s a very debated topic. And from what i’ve gathered, all true pvp-ers dislike the downed state. Usually casual pvp or pve orientated persons fail to see the flaw in the downed state. Imagine Dota with downed state. Or Counter Strike …just from that you can gather how much it ruins the pvp feel.

Pvp should be fast, precise and skill based. Not trying to kill someone and then trying even harder to finish them…it’s hilarious.

removing the downed system would further buff thieves and other BS classes.

there i said it. i think the solution is to fix the downed states of some characters before removing it completely.

vespers.1759:

removing the downed system would further buff thieves and other BS classes.

there i said it. i think the solution is to fix the downed states of some characters before removing it completely.

It would be a huge nerf on Elementalists, so I’m all for it regardless.

- Love, Warrior.

Oglaf.1074:

The worst part is the imbalance between them. Compare Warrior down state, which is useless against more than one opponent, to Elementalist down state with the instan Vapour Form which lets you suicide without any risk as long as there is either a zerg of friendly players or a keep to scamper back into.

If they removed down states in WvW, a lot of the imbalance concerning Elementalists would go away because they can no longer take risks that would guarantee a death for any other Profession.

One could also claim that removing stealth would fix thieves,
or stopping melee professions from dealing AoE damage would fix them.

Then again, each of those suggestions is rather ridiculous, don’t you think?

Like i said in the original post. Im not all-in for removing the downed state completely.
But if it’s kept, it needs some serious twicks. And by serious i mean SERIOUS and by twicks i mean A LOT OF CHANGE. lol

Fred Fargone.3127:

Oglaf.1074:

The worst part is the imbalance between them. Compare Warrior down state, which is useless against more than one opponent, to Elementalist down state with the instan Vapour Form which lets you suicide without any risk as long as there is either a zerg of friendly players or a keep to scamper back into.

If they removed down states in WvW, a lot of the imbalance concerning Elementalists would go away because they can no longer take risks that would guarantee a death for any other Profession.

One could also claim that removing stealth would fix thieves,
or stopping melee professions from dealing AoE damage would fix them.

Then again, each of those suggestions is rather ridiculous, don’t you think?

Yes.

Yes they are.

I fail to see your point affects Vapor Form being the most overpowered downed ability in the game right now, though.

Oglaf.1074:

Then again, each of those suggestions is rather ridiculous, don’t you think?

Yes.

Yes they are.

I fail to see your point affects Vapor Form being the most overpowered downed ability in the game right now, though.

It might be a good downed ability, but it is perfectly in line with Elementalists overal abilities, and balances the profession when compared to other professions survivabilities.

When it comes to survivability,
taking less damage is warriors thing,
being invisible is thiefs thing,
deceiving opponent is mesmers thing,
being able to take distance is elementalists thing,
dodging is rangers thing,
blocking/healing is guardians thing,
Engineer… I haven’t plaid enough.

Thieves can stealth while downed, mesmers can create clones while downed, warrior still takes less damage while downed, guardian still heals while downed, elementalist is still able to take distance while downed.

Seriously, they’re perfectly in line.

In sPvP and PvE, true.

But with “instanced” Keeps/Towers in WvW it becomes incredibly overpowered.

I’m all against downed system in PVP for one really simple reason, it kills the whole concept of tactical battle in PVP.

Now you don’t have to worry you will get killed, because you will not, or think will you manage to finish player sooner before he finishes you, because both of you have a 2nd life, and if you run with a teammate you have absolutely no interest in thinking if he can heal you or block for you because he can put you back on feet when you go down.

Not to mention situations where you down 3 foes, and one of your m8s bleeds to death and all 3 foes are instantly on their feet, now that is just wrong!

If there was no downed state, people would play more cautiously and strategic, plan before they just charge head on into enemy team.

After all pvp is all about players skill, and getting downed is not a trait of good players.

The downed system needs to remain… what needs to be reworked is the elementalist mist form while downed allowing them to use portals (say… near a wvw keep, to ultimately get away without consequence)

If you remove downstate, it’ll make it easier for a d/d thief to spam 2 and kill everyone.

A d/d thief can barely defeat 10 players. Removing downstate will make it easier for thieves to kill 20 players.

I love how people come on complain about something and claim something is broken in ONE aspect of the game when there are Three aspects of the game.

• PvE it works just fine and has saved my ele’s life many times.

• SPvP Not really broken by any means, so what if the ele Mist forms away follow and kill not really that hard

• WvWvW So they can retreat into a keep, who cares I really don’t. I am also betting that most players don’t really care about it either.

The down stated is not that large of an issue to begin with, it is a nice addition to PvE and in PvP (Structured), that has just turned into zerg anyhow and downstates are useless against zergs. Same kind of goes for WvWvW, if your 1v1 something and it happens to be an ele then kill them further away from the keep portal. If you can’t well then that is the outcome move on.

i agree , no down state in wvw , if someone is down they should stay downed until they release or get resed

I don’t really mind the downed state, but elementalist mist form is really overpowered. Killing players trying to dash through a zerg and into their keep is tricky already, but actually getting them downed and then just having them mist form and stroll right along through the portal to safety with nothing you can do to stop them is just wrong.

and what would you do with traits that effect the downed state in PvP then, hm?

I hate the downed system in PvP as well… it’s not right.

Woah, a lot of people seem to hate Elementalists Mist form. Seriously? O.o
I mean, its handy, because you need to use it alot. Because you’re a squishy who goes down from a few hits.
Or well, I admit I can rez a downed player in the middle of the invader zerg with my tanky little support elementalist, but most of the builds are squishy.

Luckily, this thread is not about downed state mistform.

The downed state is one of the few things I love about GW2 pvp. It really encourages the ability of a small group to be able to stand up against a zerg. It’s not as simple as WoW’s PvP, where dropping their HP to 0 = instadeath and its over. There’s more strategy involved.

Though, I suppose it’s that last bit that gets folks. Everyone says “I want content to be challenging!”… but once the challenging content arises, everyone QQs because some folks are smart enough to utilize it better than others. And involving personal skill in anything immediately results in everyone who isn’t as good at using it calling the feature “broken” or “overpowered”.

Tolmos.8395:

The downed state is one of the few things I love about GW2 pvp. It really encourages the ability of a small group to be able to stand up against a zerg. It’s not as simple as WoW’s PvP, where dropping their HP to 0 = instadeath and its over. There’s more strategy involved.

Though, I suppose it’s that last bit that gets folks. Everyone says “I want content to be challenging!”… but once the challenging content arises, everyone QQs because some folks are smart enough to utilize it better than others. And involving personal skill in anything immediately results in everyone who isn’t as good at using it calling the feature “broken” or “overpowered”.

This all this, I mean ALL OF THIS ^^^^^ +1 +1 +1

Tolmos.8395:

The downed state is one of the few things I love about GW2 pvp. It really encourages the ability of a small group to be able to stand up against a zerg. It’s not as simple as WoW’s PvP, where dropping their HP to 0 = instadeath and its over. There’s more strategy involved.
…

I feel that it is actually the opposite of what you just said. The downed state makes it nearly impossible to stand up against a bigger group. The more allies your enemy has, the faster he will be revived, either the normal way or because one your friends got killed.

I personally just dislike having to chop down an extra healthbar which is often impossible through the finisher-attack, either because your enemy flies away, stealths or knocks you back/down (stability would help against the last two, but those abilites got cooldowns, too), or through normal attacks. Just attacking is often not fast enough: Other enemies will come and attempt to disturb/kill you.

Removing downed state and having ppl die when their HP reaches 0 would probably lead to a more tactical/careful playstyle, as diving into the enemy zerg would kill you within a few seconds with no chance to recover fast enough, being revived, just because one of those enemies you hit with your AoE died, or being able to just retreat via stealth/mist form.

downed opponent is not killed.
defeated opponent is killed.

please finish what you started.

Agree, but I think it’s important to have this system, my options are: letting they have less downed life than in PVE, animation slower a lot slower (I mean, man to kill someone downed just put a sword to his throat, you don’t have to go down, go up, jump then punch his chest), and a faster bar to death (of course this mean the skill cd will go down too).

It’s good not to retire the feature cuz a lot of skills is there and if you are in a party, guild or anything like that with your friends it’s fun to be able to let them go up before they die.

Stomping animation needs to disable abilities 2 and 3 on targets.

I don’t particularly appreciate downstate, but it’s all that’s really stopping ridiculous burst like thieves from instantly and completely owning.

What needs to be fixed are the ridiculous overpowered states like mist form. Mist form lets the ele just suicide rush for no risk in many situations which is 100 times better than what the other classes get. It’s the worst when eles just jump down from fortification walls in WvW, Do some disruptive bull, and then mistform back into the structure with 0 way to stop that, repeat.

I play engineer and his downstate is completely worthless. Booby trap is always prepping so you never use it, and if/when you ever do, you’ve almost completely bled out and it was no help to you anyway. The #1 button-mash attack applies random conditions, but applying chill and weakness doesn’t matter if you’re bleeding out in the process. Guardians get the AoE push, but it’s available as soon as they’re downed, and they get to heal themselves.

Stomping needs to disable abilities 2 and 3 on all downed enemies in WvW. Stomping is supposed to be the final solution to getting rid of the downed player that you should need teammates to interrupt. It shouldn’t be dodged and made worthless by the downed abilities.

And nerf mistform. SERIOUSLY. Give it a 2 second warm up so people at least have a chance to disable it by activating the stomp.

I almost never play PvE, so I wouldn’t know, but for PvP and WvW, I certainly would vote AGAINST removing the downed state mechanism.

You know chess? Good chess players know they must be very careful when they are about to win the game.. Any little mistake, even when the situation looks desperate for the losing player, could mean a complete reversal of the situation. This is key to tension, which you don’t find in any game that gives a certain win to whatever player has taken the lead.

In my opinion, the downed state achieves just that: It forces the player on top to be extra careful until the very end. You thought the victory was yours… but no! You weren’t careful enough, and now you are the one under!

Lighthammer.3280:

I’m all against downed system in PVP for one really simple reason, it kills the whole concept of tactical battle in PVP.

Now you don’t have to worry you will get killed, because you will not, or think will you manage to finish player sooner before he finishes you, because both of you have a 2nd life, and if you run with a teammate you have absolutely no interest in thinking if he can heal you or block for you because he can put you back on feet when you go down.

Absolutely agree. Very well said.

Lighthammer.3280:

If there was no downed state, people would play more cautiously and strategic, plan before they just charge head on into enemy team.

Couldn’t agree more. I myself admit that sometimes in wvw i recklessly charge ahead of my group knowing (as a warrior) that in a worse case scenario ill just get downed but be up again as soons as my group catches up to me. so no biggy.
I’m more than sure that the absence of a downed state, or a more vulnerable one would force much more caution and tactic.

Look at it this way:

No downed state -> You can battle until your health reaches 0. You are free to run around and do what ever. Even at 1% of your HP left, you’re energic as a young steed.

Downed state -> At 25% (just a rough estimate) of your HP left, you can’t stand anymore. You are feeling weary. Your abilities are greatly diminished. All it takes is someone to punch you and you’re a goner.

So… why do you think removing downed state would make it easier for you to kill?

Or are you confused about the total health you actually have? Is this “Make them have less HP so I can kill them” rather than “Remove downed state” type of a thread?

Fred Fargone.3127:

Woah, a lot of people seem to hate Elementalists Mist form. Seriously? O.o

Yeah because it is totally balanced and fair that Elementalists essentially are immortal when defending a Tower/Keep in WvW. And no, it is not Mist Form I loathe, it is Vapour Form, which is the downed ability.

It is the single most imbalanced downed state ability in the game. It gives you the freedom to take so many “risks” that would kill any other Profession in the game with zero risk involved.

As others have said, Downed in WvW is a pain, with mist form, thief teleport&vanish, both of which break the silly slow Stomp animation we have now, you end up just beating a second life bar, which is annoying to say the least and simply not fun.

Equally so. Downed is really handy in PvE. So you don’t want to mess with it there.

I propose that if we speed up the stomp animation to be a swift one hit coup de grâce, and then see what happens, would be a step in the right direction.

Anet can adjust the speed of a stomp, at will, so that would even be a game changing event.

Fred Fargone.3127:

So… why do you think removing downed state would make it easier for you to kill?

Or are you confused about the total health you actually have? Is this “Make them have less HP so I can kill them” rather than “Remove downed state” type of a thread?

Really? that’s all you got out of this thread? Did you read nothing of it?
This isn’t about me, i play 4 classes in spvp including thief and elementalist. If it was about me, i’d just switch to the one that favors me the most. The topic adresses a larger issue, not something selfish like you’re implying.

On a more sad note, your signature “People who can argue often offer a good and meaningful conversation about the subject. People who can’t tend to call the opponent troll, scream something utterly incomprehensible and finally result to personal insults.” is pretty ironic.

It’s ironic because i happened to see your posts on other threads, and you always have something to say against the topic regardless of the subject, with no arguments just “background noise”, like you did here.
Sorry to break it to you, but that is, my friend, the definition of a troll.

There are some people here who argued that they agree on downed state in pvp, and i respect that, because they brought something to the discussion unlike you who said some childish stuff that has no relevance or relation towards the topic.

Vendetta.8516:

Fred Fargone.3127:

So… why do you think removing downed state would make it easier for you to kill?

Or are you confused about the total health you actually have? Is this “Make them have less HP so I can kill them” rather than “Remove downed state” type of a thread?

Really? that’s all you got out of this thread? Did you read nothing of it?
This isn’t about me, i play 4 classes in spvp including thief and elementalist. If it was about me, i’d just switch to the one that favors me the most. The topic adresses a larger issue, not something selfish like you’re implying.

On a more sad note, your signature “People who can argue often offer a good and meaningful conversation about the subject. People who can’t tend to call the opponent troll, scream something utterly incomprehensible and finally result to personal insults.” is pretty ironic.

It’s ironic because i happened to see your posts on other threads, and you always have something to say against the topic regardless of the subject, with no arguments just “background noise”, like you did here.
Sorry to break it to you, but that is, my friend, the definition of a troll.

There are some people here who argued that they agree on downed state in pvp, and i respect that, because they brought something to the discussion unlike you who said some childish stuff that has no relevance or relation towards the topic.

Well, I suppose that is one way of ignoring the arguments others present.
There is always people who call the opponent a troll when they can’t understand the opposing arguments or can’t come up with a counter. I can live with that.

And no, its not all I got out of this thread, it’s all I got to say to the 20th or so Downed State & WvW thread. (Since that point wasn’t raised here yet)

EDIT: Well, not “all” but I was thinking of presenting one point at a time. Keeps the conversation more focussed, eh?

Fred Fargone.3127:

And no, its not all I got out of this thread, it’s all I got to say to the 20th or so Downed State & WvW thread. (Since that point wasn’t raised here yet)

That proves how much of an issue it is; it just isn’t a few fringe people thinking something has to be done.

Warrior only takes 15% less damage (same as guard but higher hp) and unless we trait our downed skill its a corpse walk. It is also useless traited in pvp because we’d have to kill the opponent, not just down them. that requires a stomp or serious time, more than 15s. If we are able to get lucky there might be fodder around, but most of it doesn’t give exp anymore so doesn’t count for the downed skill.

Compare with other professions that have ridiculously powerful downed skills.
Also, they have sustain.
You can have all the hp in the world but it won’t make a lick of difference if you have no sustain.

No.. no the downed skills aren’t balanced.

No.. no the downed skills aren’t balanced.Engineer needs buffing in several areas, but you know how I know for certain the downed skills weren’t thought of with wvw in mind?
If you down an engineer while defending a keep on the wall, they become 100 times more dangerous because they can now pull you to them and 1hko you with fall damage from the wall.

No.. no the downed skills aren’t balanced.Engineer needs buffing in several areas, but you know how I know for certain the downed skills weren’t thought of with wvw in mind?
If you down an engineer while defending a keep on the wall, they become 100 times more dangerous because they can now pull you to them and 1hko you with fall damage from the wall.Seems legit.

Oglaf.1074:

Fred Fargone.3127:

And no, its not all I got out of this thread, it’s all I got to say to the 20th or so Downed State & WvW thread. (Since that point wasn’t raised here yet)

That proves how much of an issue it is; it just isn’t a few fringe people thinking something has to be done.

Well, mounts had around 100 or so threads last I checked. And that excludes the threads that have been deleted or merged. And I still think mounts aren’t fitting for GW2.

personally I’d say remove stomp rather than downed state, so many people complain about downed state because they can’t stomp in time where if they had just attacked them normally they’d have beaten them in half the time…

Im sure some things with the downed state need a tweak but in general it is a boon to the game and is indeed a part of the game that makes it this game. Saying other games wouldn’t work with it is because there other games, this game wouldn’t work with a portal gun or the ability to build 100 marines to follow you around shooting things, because its not those games.

Fred Fargone.3127:

And no, its not all I got out of this thread, it’s all I got to say to the 20th or so Downed State & WvW thread. (Since that point wasn’t raised here yet)

Therefore you actively admit that you just wanted “to say something” in disregard to the topic (troll). Similar to your responses on other threads.

And your so called “arguments” were that this is a sort of a personal issue while i’ve already made it clear that i play several clases: thief, warrior, guardian, elementalist in SPVP / warrior and elementalist in WvW so it is not a matter of personal issue since i can just switch classes on what suits me best on different circumstances (which I admittedly do). This was an overall concern about the pvp system, which many pvp orientated players share. It is something easy to fix, plausable and realistic. Not some flying dragon mount in the sky.

Then you counter-argument yourself again by saying it’s all I got to say to the 20th or so Downed State & WvW thread .
LOL, so that means it’s a pretty debated issue and it’s not just me, or a personal favor appeal of mine. Huh…Who would of thought? -being ironic.

Vendetta.8516:

Fred Fargone.3127:

And no, its not all I got out of this thread, it’s all I got to say to the 20th or so Downed State & WvW thread. (Since that point wasn’t raised here yet)

Therefore you actively admit that you just wanted “to say something” in disregard to the topic (troll). Similar to your responses on other threads. Even if you seem to intentionally misintepret everything and only hang on to minor details.

And your so called “arguments” were that this is a sort of a personal issue while i’ve already made it clear that i play several clases: thief, warrior, guardian, elementalist in SPVP / warrior and elementalist in WvW so it is not a matter of personal issue since i can just switch classes on what suits me best on different circumstances (which I admittedly do). This was an overall concern about the pvp system, which many pvp orientated players share. It is something easy to fix, plausable and realistic. Not some flying dragon mount in the sky.

Well, I know you haven’t been around on the forums for too long, and I forgive you for that.

Anyways, it seems you misunderstood my earlier question, so I’ll reiterate:
Do you suggest removing the downed state while adding the HP lost to your upstate HP bar,
OR
Do you want people to just have generally less health?

Vendetta.8516:

Then you counter-argument yourself again by saying it’s all I got to say to the 20th or so Downed State & WvW thread. (Since that point wasn’t raised here yet) .
LOL, so that means it’s a pretty debated issue. How about that… -being ironic.

You seem to conviniently ignore parts of the opposing posts that do not fit your “witty” arguments. No, all it goes to show is that people do not read the forum code of conduct before starting yet another topic on a topic we’ve been over already.
Last 19 times didn’t change anything, if the 20th time does, well you’ve obviously done something better than the people in the past (For example, you didn’t start all hostile, like the last guy did). Still, I’d rather they kept downed state as it is.

First off people need to look at it in two lights.
Now I don’t agree that downed state is that much of an issue as I posted before, that is my opinion which I am entitled to have.

• 1st Re-creating threads a multitude of times and having roughly the same people post on every new thread about it is not inductive of a real problem. You can have 500 people on this thread agree that “Down State” is a problem and needs to be fix. What Arena Net looks at it what is the Average Congruent player base of the game and what is the rough % of players on the forums. Now is the Forum players a high enough % to take into account for a change to the over all Player base. Basically 500 sounds like a lot and it is when the total is 600, but when the total is 100,000 that number is rather small. Now I am not claiming to know what the numbers are out side of the last reported Congruent player base for the game was somewhere around 420k. So My suggestion to players that are against the “Downed State” tell your friends in game to log into the forums for just 3 minutes and make their voice heard on this thread, if enough of the people speak up Arena Net will change it.

• 2nd Just because you feel passionate about what you believe is right or wrong doesn’t mean others can’t disagree, and when they do it doesn’t make them stupid or a fanboy or even un-knowledgeable to the situation. So if you make your point known and you get all your friends that agree with you and all their friends to agree with you and still nothing changes you ( meaning everyone in protest to down state ) have to accept that.

So this can go either way, I wish you all the best of luck in your efforts to get this changed to something better as all you would put it. If it is changed then so be it, I personally hope it doesn’t change as I see no problem with it.

Vendetta.8516:

Fred Fargone.3127:

Do you suggest removing the downed state while adding the HP lost to your upstate HP bar,
OR
Do you want people to just have generally less health?

Are you really asking me that?? Maybe if you READ the initial thread, you’d know, what it is, im hoping for.

I did, and you are wanting to remove or tweak it, but with no indication of what your stance is towards the HP lost whilst removing downed state.
It’s likely you wish to just lower the total HP a player has. This obviously would favour burst builds, and actually reduce the skill required to take someone down.
Then again, if you wished to move the HP from downed state to upstate, that would be a different story.