Guild Wars 2

In the current state of the game they are able to just One hit kill you from stealth with backstab, if thats not enought damage to kill you, you will still be at 20% or less health, then they proceed to spam Heart Seeker till you are dead, or auto attacks, its the same.

If for some reason you are lucky enought to evade the burst, then he will just re stealth and try again, hos is this fair?, then if you manage to get his health down, he will RUN, then proceed to reset the combat, coming back with FULL HP, again, how is this fair?….

IT ISNT

Look the people are telling you, thief needs really a balance because right now its OP like no one:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/thief-dmg-realy/first#post2220284

a one hit kill seems very unlikely, unless you are playing full glass cannon, in which case it is your fault for not playing defensive.

For a thief to reach that damage number, they are most likely playing glass cannon, so lay some aoe down, have a pet chase them, summon clones, whatever you play as, you have ways to fight it.

i dont play a thief, and it sure is annoying when they down you with shadow refuge and you cant stop it, but they sacrifice a lot of defensiveness to reach that high damage state.
what could be done is to encourage theives to play other builds besides the backstab build which is the most viable.

Another player who needs a game lesson. L2p. Thieves are really weak when you understand their mechanics (by playing one). Want op? Look at d/d ele with bunker traits. Or s/d. They don’t need LoS and can dominate seige, they can also jump into an enemy zerg of 30+ and no matter what cc you bring they can escape. Yeah…. you still point fingers at the class that can be 2 shotted with half a brain…

Some more info about their burst damage:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-Backstab-Picture/first#post2185307

Yeah! The class that suppose to have the highest burst needs another burst nerf! BAKSTAB SO OP

Zacchary.6183:

Yeah! The class that suppose to have the highest burst needs another burst nerf! BAKSTAB SO OP

Zacchary,

You promised NOT to post that shot of me ganking you! See, now all the folks too lazy to learn how to play/defeat a Thief are now here complaining about us!

FinalPatriot.8034:

Zacchary.6183:

Yeah! The class that suppose to have the highest burst needs another burst nerf! BAKSTAB SO OP

Zacchary,

You promised NOT to post that shot of me ganking you! See, now all the folks too lazy to learn how to play/defeat a Thief are now here complaining about us!

You stabbed me in the booty and it hurt! >:C

Fenrir.5493:

In the current state of the game they are able to just One hit kill you from stealth with backstab, if thats not enought damage to kill you, you will still be at 20% or less health, then they proceed to spam Heart Seeker till you are dead, or auto attacks, its the same.

If for some reason you are lucky enought to evade the burst, then he will just re stealth and try again, hos is this fair?, then if you manage to get his health down, he will RUN, then proceed to reset the combat, coming back with FULL HP, again, how is this fair?….

IT ISNT

You complain about a single target, melee burst? I raise you a 1500 range, line aoe/multiple target burst. I have yet to see a single thief 1 hit kill anybody ever. CnD backstab could get close but never just backstab.

Up to this, still needs attention.

That burst comes from mostly zerker.

Mostly zerker=squishy.

Squishy= easy to kill

Also dodge buttons are awesome.

Imho Thief needs no dmg nerf.
If you can play your character reasonably well and are not glasscannon you can beat thiefs on same skill level. If you build to squishy to survive some backstabs and don’t know how to counter a thief there are 2 possibilities:
1) fix your gear, full berserker sucks
2) l2p

The only thing I’d change is stealth, cause this makes thief the best class for runnin away – no way to catch a running thief.

Solution: On recieving damage, thief has an X% change of getting revealed and losing stealth.

<~not a thief

Troll post reported. Get some arguments before coming here again. And your problem isn’t stealth, but backstab damage, try getting more defense/hp

how is that a troll post? If any, it’s yours…
I brought a reasonable explanation and solution, while you did…. nothing of use for this conversation

I once fought a thief in pvp doing my usual AoE traps. I usually play PvP with necro now on soldier. We were fighting 2 vs 2, necro & ele vs thief & thief. Both thieves attacked me at the same time doing a total of 12k dmg which was half my health. That’s not okay.

Whenever there’s a thief that has aggro on me I can only see my health bar drop with a DPS of 1k. Good my armor defense isn’t high but with 2.6k defense shouldn’t I be able to at least survive the attacks as if I’m fighting any other class?

When I try to use my condition traps they somehow always heal up to full health and in case they get problems they stealth and run away coming back with full health while I wasn’t able to regenerate just as fast. Heck that thief wasn’t even skilled on glass cannon and did 6k dmg. That’s definitely not okay.

A thief that do 6k dmg (time?) on ONE person, is not “okay” but that every other class can hit 3 or more targets with 4k dmg/s is good, or what?

Whirlwind Attack e.g. is stronger than every Backstab, it hits more targets and have more hits per execution (2-4).

PS: @All

Write down which mode you mean in every mode are the classes different strong

Honestly this myth is debunked at this point. Unless you’re naked or uplvl’d, ONE backstab is definitely not going to 1hko you. Unless we they go full GC and max bloodlust stacks with food and the best possible crit chance and even then. Besides, most of us thieves don’t go for gc specs.

Thieves cannot burst anyone down if they have at least some toughness, thieves were
already nerfed quite severely. If a thief cannot burst down a squishy character without
any vitality or toughness, then what are they supposed to do? To get a lot of damage,
a thief will be in berserker gear, with 10K hp and no toughness, he will die faster than
you will if you get the jump, or if you react fast enough to their jump.

Berserker thief is about reaction, if you react to their assault then you win, if you act all
surprised when they jump you and you let them beat on you for five seconds, then yes
they will burst you down.

I doubt though that many thieves still choose the berserker backstab builds, it is not
nearly as good now against anyone but new players. Thieves are better off going
pistol/dagger or sword/dagger, or dagger/pistol, while giving themselves toughness
and maybe some vitality.

Personally, with almost any profession I play, I go with knight gear or precision-knight
gear, and carrion or rabid when using a condition build, never rampager.

Zsymon.8457:

Berserker thief is about reaction, if you react to their assault then you win, if you act all
surprised when they jump you and you let them beat on you for five seconds, then yes
they will burst you down.

How is possible to react on invisible thief oneshooting you ? tell me that please…

matemaster.2168:

Zsymon.8457:

Berserker thief is about reaction, if you react to their assault then you win, if you act all
surprised when they jump you and you let them beat on you for five seconds, then yes
they will burst you down.

How is possible to react on invisible thief oneshooting you ? tell me that please…

You open your eyes and dont play like a bot or use 1 or 2 deff skills.
(Is this so difficult?)

I have always 2 deff skill with me and a few deff traits. This is enought for me to defeat 90% of all thiefs, include S/D FS Spamming Thiefs.

Here is a comment from a player who also plays thief (besides all those other 7 professions):

The glass cannon argument is moot. It is basically thief defenders saying that all other professions deserve to die if they run glass cannon, but thieves are okay to run low health and thoughness builds, yet get to choose to disengange fights whenever they want.

Damage in WvWvW is much higher due better gear and consumables. You can achieve around 110% which allows pretty massive burst using any profession. For example eviscerate (warrior axe burst) can surely do as much damage as thief’s backstab using exactly same gear setup. The thing is most WvWvW warriors won’t be running pure glass cannon as they would die so easily and unlike thieves they just cannot shadowstep to safety or pop in stealth. Most WvWvW warriors are running more or less PVT (+ some knight) gear, meaning their crit chance and crit % is low.

Learn to play argument is also very misleading. In EU top tiers WvWvW thieves tend to run in pairs. Even if you have high health and 3k+ armor, two good thieves can down and stealth stomp you fast. Most stun break skills and blocks have a high cool down. You can use them to mitigate one burst, but not two. Yes, you can beat 2 bad thieves, but hey you can beat 2 bad players of any profession. The point is: you simply won’t be beating alone 2 good thieves who burst together and high armor won’t help you, it will just give you 1-3 seconds more time to survive, but you will die anycase. Those two thieves can remain stealthed more or less infinitely if they just abuse the smoke combo fields. And they can surprise even the best players if they roam alone.

Some people argue that if a thief ran away you won the fight. But that is not a win. You didn’t get any WXP, no badges, no loot bags. It was a draw. No other profession can choose their fights so easily.

Thieves are okay in tpvp, because you cannot contest points while being stealthed and the burst damage there is much much lower. But there is no question that currently thieves are broken when it comes to WvWvW. And please don’t tell me that thieves are useless in zerg fights or anything else, as that clearly is a learn to play issue and I see lots of thieves in any zerg fight.

I have a very simple solution to solve this problem:
Change stealth so that the stealthed player remains semi-transparent to its enemies, just like it is currently rendered to its allies. Thieves would still get all the benefits related to stealth (cannot be targeted, burst from stealth, possible condition cleansing and healing etc). And at the same time remove all stealth traps as it is unfair to have a trap which pretty much breaks one profession (so many good things thief has are tied to stealth, total stealth denial is very bad for them).

This would promote more skill play and variation as landing those backstabs would become more difficult e.g. 1st immobilize the opponent and then stealth and then land backstab or use something else!

The combo fields in general should be addressed when it comes to WvWvW, since that is one the key reasons why melee train type of zergs are so powerful (might stacking, area retaliation, heals via water fields etc). Yes, I am talking about those eles, guardians and warriors now, who usually make the back bone of the zerg. I think the combo fields need to be toned down around 50% or we will continue to see blob after blob. Developers should do some testing and possible nerf the duration of combo field boons by 50% and/or reduce their effectiveness by 50%.

Many combo fields are really weak with solo or small groups of players, if you tone
them down even further just so massive zergs aren’t too strong, they’ll be completely
useless in spvp and tpvp and anything but wvw zergs.

I really don’t think wvw zergs should be any consideration what so ever in skill balance.

The opponent can zerg too, so all you do is slow down the time one zerg needs to kill
another. If they win with the combo fields, they’ll win without them as well, so really I
don’t see the point in considering zergs when addressing skills and mechanics.

Combos are an important part of the game, if anything they should be toned up, the
might buffing with blast finishers in fire fields seems fine, but some combos are far too
weak. Giving one second of retaliation or two seconds of fire shield really isn’t very
useful. In zergs it may be different, but considering zergs in skill balance is pointless.

Zsymon.8457:

Many combo fields are really weak with solo or small groups of players, if you tone
them down even further just so massive zergs aren’t too strong, they’ll be completely
useless in spvp and tpvp and anything but wvw zergs.

I really don’t think wvw zergs should be any consideration what so ever in skill balance.

The opponent can zerg too, so all you do is slow down the time one zerg needs to kill
another. If they win with the combo fields, they’ll win without them as well, so really I
don’t see the point in considering zergs when addressing skills and mechanics.

Combos are an important part of the game, if anything they should be toned up, the
might buffing with blast finishers in fire fields seems fine, but some combos are far too
weak. Giving one second of retaliation or two seconds of fire shield really isn’t very
useful. In zergs it may be different, but considering zergs in skill balance is pointless.

Many combo fields being weak for a solo player? And retaliation being almost useless?
We must be playing a totally different game.

I play thief solo in pve and I use the combo fields ALL the time. Besides the obvious smoke field combos you can easily do e.g. choking gas + cluster bomb for poison + area weakness + bleeding and pretty kitten nice AoE damage. Throw in couple of caltrops dodges with uncatchable trait and you get even more bleed stacks + area cripple. Note you can use this very easy combo also in WvWvW to solo supply camps. Two supply camps gives your server as many points as 1 tower.

Here is an interesting engineer healer condition damage build. Despite not allocating that much to healing power and using semi-rampager gear it can do over 10k area heals using the combo fields, engineer alone without the need for others to do provide the blast finishers:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/PVE-BUILD-TANKY-HEALY-CONDI-ENGI/first#post2220946

Note: I am not suggesting any changes for spvp/tpvp. But we definitely need adjusting for WvWvW. Area retaliation from light fields (+ blast finishers) is one of the strongest easily spammed boons in WvWvW besides stability and healing from water fields. E.g. light field from guardian hammer 1 and then blast finisher from hammer 2 (which has very low cooldown). Spammable retaliation for free. Retaliation still does full damage on the all the borderland maps (it was supposed to be nerfed to spvp/tpvp level in the April match, but it is still doing full damage in other maps). Retaliation pretty much completely shut downs those enemy attacker which are fast hitting multiple targets e.g. engineer’s grenade barrage with grenadier trait can hit up to 40 targets, hitting each of them for roughly 250 damage. The poor engineer can get up to 16k retaliation damage in return from using just single skill, which cannot be canceled and grenades travel slowly (so it might be so that the zerg doesn’t have retaliation on when you start throwing them). Using ranger’s barrage, engineer’s flamejet and guardian’s whirling wrath can create similar, but generally not that devastating results (they can be canceled). Anycase dealing much more damage on the attacker than the ones being attacked. It is not a learn to play issue since e.g. engineer has very few skills which hit only target. And area heals from water fields and massive condition cleansing is what is keeping those tight blobs alive. I would want to see something else in the WvWvW than the pro guilds running in one tightly packed blob and doing the combo fields + well-timed dodges + CC skills when their commander tells so.

These are just prime examples of certain things, which are broken in the WvWvW. It is more popular game format compared to tpvp, so of course it should be addressed in skill balance. I vote for WvWvW specific game changes.