Guild Wars 2

Thieves and Mesmers are way over powered in PvP because, not only can they stay stealthed, they can do crazy high damage. Targeting the other player’s doesn’t help, at least on my server. Because, after they go into stealth, the target disappears.

Earlier today, I was in a pvp match, and out of nowhere a thief appeared out of stealth and attacked me. He hit me 3 times. Before I could even react, and I was dead.

Mesmers are too overpowered in that, they stay cloaked, while hiding in a crowd of clones they create. This is a problem, because EVERYBODY uses Mesmers in PvP now. During the same match that I was attacked by the thief, there was a group of 3 Mesmers roaming around together. If each player had 3 clones, that’s a total of 12 enemies, 9 clones/phantasms that do a great deal of damage each, and 3 players attacking and going in and out of stealth.

These two classes are way too overpowered, simply because of their ability to go into stealth. I think that going into stealth should only temporarily drop the target, and automatically re-target the enemy after they come out of stealth. As long as you don’t manually target something else, while your original enemy was in stealth. And to fix the targeting problem, by keeping the target above them after they come out of stealth. OR keep the target above them while they are invisible, but not automatically target them when they re-appear.

Agree.

The two classes are OP.

If you die in 3 hits to ONE thief, you need to pay attention in PvP.

If you die in 3 hits to TWO thieves, there’s not much you can do.

Thiefs will quickly say no to this and “try it yourself and see they aren’t OP”.

The reality is there are tons of videos on YouTube of Thiefs taking on 5 or more players ALONE and breathing them on WvW, spend a few hours looking at some and you cannot say they aren’t OP, no other class can do the same.

And when they can take on those numbers, 1v1 is over before it starts.

Now comes the part when someone quotes me and says “I beat Thiefs all the time, not that difficult because of this and this and this and do that”.
Well guess what, I can take on bad Thiefs like that too, earlier today on OS one from Viz kept coming and kept dying, that doesn’t mean they aren’t OP.
When you can do what a great Thief does consistently with any other class, then you can say they aren’t OP.

EDIT: I forgot to present my solution, it’s none, not anything related to stealth anyway…
The game it’s just “in way too deep” any nerfing on stealth would “kill” the class.
Every game that tried stealth (not just MMOs) and didn’t made it 100% stealth, didn’t work. 99% alpha, shadow on the ground, the slightest give away will just do that, give it away.
So if anything Thiefs should get their damage nerfed like Guardians got their HP nerfed, 10k if I’m not mistaken.

@Dean: As a thief, I can live with that. But then again, I’m a control spec, so my burst is kinda non existant.

LOL no decent player is fooled by mesmer clones anymore, Most mesmers have to play under the presumption that the opponent knows which one is the real one. The only thing that MAY be a bit OP for 1v1 fights are phantasm mesmers, but they are pretty useless in team fights.

Thieves have gotten TONS of nerfs since launch what your feeling now is a lot less from what people used to deal with and anyone worth their salt could deal with any thief they knew was there and would only be rolled by a well placed shadow refuge assassination, and that’s only presuming the target was a glass cannon standing still on a point panning his camera.

As to the “I can beat a thief” comment, well appart from out of reach shadow refuge on a glass cannon I can consistently kill thiefs that were within the top 100 with QPs before the removal of paids. (though the fights do feel stacked in their favor) This isn’t to say I’m crazy good but the idea is that if I can out play certain ranking thieves consistently I’m pretty sure others can to.

@OP Get rank 20+ then come back and see if you have the same problem. If you do you may need some guidance.

i play thief and i say nerf in some way. they are very OP in many aspects of the game.

Here we go again…

I got sick of beimg killd by mesmers and theifs so i rolled both classes.
Theifs are a bish to play bit once you get it down u can oracticly kill any one.
Mesmers the second i started playing one i realized why they r sooo strong
Now on that remark i dont use stealth at all with my mesmer i dint need it. I can practicly never get lockd down. And i deal pretty good damage from range. Sure my health is low but good luck hitting me.
Now on that remark. After playing mesmer my warrior(sword/sheild condi build) has yet to lose to a mesmer in a long time. Thiefs still kill me but i can usualy make the fites drag out forever until an ally or even foe arives to change the fite.
Now on that remarks countering stealth is well non existent. That the only problem. A good example is sheild block when a rouge hits u while blocking with a sheild nothing happens they dont unstealth or anything. Iv had theifs laugh when i pop it and tell me all there doing is spaming skills till it pops.
Now i wouldnt say theifs or mesmers r op but stealth has issues. Theifs do take some skill to play and r easy ro burst dont when caught.

Edit: sry bout all the typos. When using the forum in my phone it wont let me see anything i type lol so its a bish.

negerleif.2106:

i play thief and i say nerf in some way. they are very OP in many aspects of the game.

Let me guess Stealth +BS.

This two thinks are a little OP, yes BUT all other traitslines and weaponskills are so UP, incl. their low base hp, that every thief without stealth and BS, would has no chance against the other classes.

On the other side the dmg that a thief do on one target, with dagger and pistols are slight higher, than others do with their ae weapons. At two enemies are the other classes much stronger (2-3 times). That means that the thief must normaly do the double dmg than ae weapons on one target, but this would be to strong for spvp/semiWvW.

PS: Before some tell me that im trolling and try to protect the thief, show me an example for the “OPness” of the thief, which has nothing to do with fullberserker thief with Stealth +BS they fight against fullberserker geared players in WvW. This are the only examples that I saw in the last 6 months.

Before I forget it, my suggestions for the thief:

1. Increase both Stealth and Revealed base time on 5+ sec
2. Increase base HP to the base of rangers, engineers etc.
   and /or Increase base dmg of the weapons by min +25%
3. Reduce BS dmg to +25% – +50%
4. Give the thief the mobility he got deserved e.g. a trait that give him perma +25% movement speed, the warrior has one but why not the class who should be normally very agile? <-Remove the stealthrequirement from “Fleet Shadow”.

— General —

1. Remove the +critdmg gear ability from the game. That would make fights fairer and funnier and (in WvW) not to onehit fights.
2. Fix the Daggerstorm + Signet of Might issues. DS reflect, dont block shoots, otherwise change the discription.

Black Teagan.9215:

negerleif.2106:

i play thief and i say nerf in some way. they are very OP in many aspects of the game.

Let me guess Stealth +BS.

This two thinks are a little OP, yes BUT all other traitslines and weaponskills are so UP, incl. their low base hp, that every thief without stealth and BS, would has no chance against the other classes.

On the other side the dmg that a thief do on one target, with dagger and pistols are slight higher, than others do with their ae weapons. At two enemies are the other classes much stronger (2-3 times). That means that the thief must normaly do the double dmg than ae weapons on one target, but this would be to strong for spvp/semiWvW.

PS: Before some tell me that im trolling and try to protect the thief, show me an example for the “OPness” of the thief, which has nothing to do with fullberserker thief with Stealth +BS they fight against fullberserker geared players in WvW. This are the only examples that I saw in the last 6 months.

Before I forget it, my suggestions for the thief:

1. Increase both Stealth and Revealed base time on 5+ sec
2. Increase base HP to the base of rangers, engineers etc.
   and /or Increase base dmg of the weapons by min +25%
3. Reduce BS dmg to +25% – +50%
4. Give the thief the mobility he got deserved e.g. a trait that give him perma +25% movement speed, the warrior has one but why not the class who should be normally very agile? <-Remove the stealthrequirement from “Fleet Shadow”.

— General —

1. Remove the +critdmg gear ability from the game. That would make fights fairer and funnier and (in WvW) not to onehit fights.
2. Fix the Daggerstorm + Signet of Might issues. DS reflect, dont block shoots, otherwise change the discription.

Any adjustment that increases revealed time ruins non-burst stealth builds. The non-burst stealth builds ideally stealth and immediately use their stealth skill, and need to do so as often as possible to be effective. So this nerf won’t balance thieves, it’d just force them all to be D/x backstabbers.

Dual.8953:

Any adjustment that increases revealed time ruins non-burst stealth builds. The non-burst stealth builds ideally stealth and immediately use their stealth skill, and need to do so as often as possible to be effective. So this nerf won’t balance thieves, it’d just force them all to be D/x backstabbers.

You mean like 85% in the last 10 months?

A burst should be more than only use two buttons, I wont said that a thief dont should have a burst. But my suggestion based on the thought to increase the dmg of all thiefs weapon without make Backstab to strong. The revealed time between two BS should increase, without to reduce dmg, therefore the much higher base dmg (Dagger base dmg could increase by circa 50% per chainskill).

TL:DR for a better grasp

BaseDmg of BS = BDBS

Current:
BDBS: 1k points (e.g.)
In the back: BDBS*2 = 2k points

My Suggestion after the increase of the base dmg e.g. by 35%:
BDBS: 1,35k points
In the back: BDBS*1,5 = 2025 points

This wouldn’t make BS much stronger but improve the other daggerskills and would give them a better balance between the skills and the fact that daggers could only hit one person.

PS: Pls dont read and comment only one of my suggestions, they belong together.

if you are dying in 3 hits thats your own fault for being glass cannon. glass cannon comes with the responsibility of knowing how to mitigate and avoid damage.

mesmers are already the worse dps in the game.

should have some balance to make it stronger in pve…
a nerf in pvp comes with nerf in pve.. and its already too weak.

Thieves OP , HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA , yeah right, Mes can stealth quicker and more often than i can, gets to use lots of decoys , has a longer range with all that purple glowy crap and higher health.

What about guardians ? More buffs than your average streetwalkers tonsils, tons of armour and health

Envy.1679:

if you are dying in 3 hits thats your own fault for being glass cannon. glass cannon comes with the responsibility of knowing how to mitigate and avoid damage.

I don’t usually comment on these threads, but out of what must have been dozens of thieves i’ve fougt in WvW, there was one thief that wiped the floor with my server. I kid you not, the thief could stealth so fast, he killed 2 of us when we stepped onto the field, killed another 3, with a mesmer next to the guy killing 2 players until we finally got the mesmer, another 2 players dead and then we finally got the thief. There were atleast 20 players on my side. And it was just the thief and mesmer. During that hour of WvW, nobody went alone because that thief three shotted anyone he blinked at.

Now don’t get me wrong, i’ve had plenty of fights with thieves and mesmers, and i’d like to think of myself of average capability in WvW specifically, some fights you win, some fights you lose, but that one thief was stupidly overpowered. Find whatever build that thief was using and nerf it, but thieves as a whole? they’re fine. low health thieves who stealth and run gets annoying, but that’s an aspect of the game i can live with. A thief that can hit so hard and stealth so often it takes 20 players to take him down? nerf that monster of a build down to the ground.

I`d love to know what that build is myself , because i haven`t managed to find it since august last year

castlemanic.3198:

Envy.1679:

if you are dying in 3 hits thats your own fault for being glass cannon. glass cannon comes with the responsibility of knowing how to mitigate and avoid damage.

I don’t usually comment on these threads, but out of what must have been dozens of thieves i’ve fougt in WvW, there was one thief that wiped the floor with my server. I kid you not, the thief could stealth so fast, he killed 2 of us when we stepped onto the field, killed another 3, with a mesmer next to the guy killing 2 players until we finally got the mesmer, another 2 players dead and then we finally got the thief. There were atleast 20 players on my side. And it was just the thief and mesmer. During that hour of WvW, nobody went alone because that thief three shotted anyone he blinked at.

Now don’t get me wrong, i’ve had plenty of fights with thieves and mesmers, and i’d like to think of myself of average capability in WvW specifically, some fights you win, some fights you lose, but that one thief was stupidly overpowered. Find whatever build that thief was using and nerf it, but thieves as a whole? they’re fine. low health thieves who stealth and run gets annoying, but that’s an aspect of the game i can live with. A thief that can hit so hard and stealth so often it takes 20 players to take him down? nerf that monster of a build down to the ground.

A thief is very easy to counter, but not with dmg alone.
A longbow and the bolas are enough to kill thiefs within 10 sec

mesmers are already the worse dps in the game.
should have some balance to make it stronger in pve…
a nerf in pvp comes with nerf in pve.. and its already too weak.

I doesnt know the mesmer in pve, but in spvp I do 6k dmg with only one illusion on one target, that is really strong and much higher than thiefs can do.
But you have right that the nonexisting splitting between the gamemodes, make balance very hard till impossible.

There are 1vX videos showing any class taking on superior numbers. That’s an anecdotal argument, and a poor one at that.

People want to take their all zerker PvE gear (braindead CoF warriors, I’m talking to you) into WvW and faceroll. Well, you are in for a rude awakening. More often than not your next stop is to QQ on the forums.

Players at the highest level of any class can simply dominate everyone else. That’s the point. Skill is rewarded. It’s also a fact that some classes cater more to 1v1 (at the highest level, again) than others.

The thieves you are referring to are roamers or small group style. Zerker thieves get absolutely crushed in any kind of zerg unless they pick off the scraps at the very fringe. And, venomshare notwithstanding, offer little to no group utility in most of the standard builds.

TL;DR; L2P your class.

Black Teagan.9215:

Dual.8953:

Any adjustment that increases revealed time ruins non-burst stealth builds. The non-burst stealth builds ideally stealth and immediately use their stealth skill, and need to do so as often as possible to be effective. So this nerf won’t balance thieves, it’d just force them all to be D/x backstabbers.

You mean like 85% in the last 10 months?

A burst should be more than only use two buttons, I wont said that a thief dont should have a burst. But my suggestion based on the thought to increase the dmg of all thiefs weapon without make Backstab to strong. The revealed time between two BS should increase, without to reduce dmg, therefore the much higher base dmg (Dagger base dmg could increase by circa 50% per chainskill).

TL:DR for a better grasp

BaseDmg of BS = BDBS

Current:
BDBS: 1k points (e.g.)
In the back: BDBS*2 = 2k points

My Suggestion after the increase of the base dmg e.g. by 35%:
BDBS: 1,35k points
In the back: BDBS*1,5 = 2025 points

This wouldn’t make BS much stronger but improve the other daggerskills and would give them a better balance between the skills and the fact that daggers could only hit one person.

PS: Pls dont read and comment only one of my suggestions, they belong together.

Even together this suggestion breaks S/D control and P/D condi, they’ll lose they’re offense and defense in one fell swoop, setting them down lower than S/P and P/P. Completely ineffective in PvP and PvE.

How about boon bunker elementalists? Try and kill one 1 vs 1 in WvW, maybe using a backstab thief and then come back and tell us your experience.

Dual.8953:

Even together this suggestion breaks S/D control and P/D condi, they’ll lose they’re offense and defense in one fell swoop, setting them down lower than S/P and P/P. Completely ineffective in PvP and PvE.

Do you read what I wrote?

EVERY Thief Weapon get a higher dmg, not only Dagger, but the dmg bonus of Backstab will reduce to +50%, so that BS isnt much stronger, but all other weaponskills has a better efficacy.

Nothing of that would have a negative effect on the dmg or weapons.

BTW: S/D has nothing to do with Control. S/D is an evade and movement weaponset, for Control use S/P.

I’m not sure I agree on another nerf for mesmers, they cop alot of flak. Mesmers are meant to be masters of misdirection you break that flow and you break the class, we have already had phantasms nerfed (line of sight etc) and our focus skills and reflection abilities harshly dealt with.

Thieves haven’t been dealt with however, I play thief and can stay perma stealthed through blindness or stealth skills. It’s what it’s designed to be though, a thief plays like a warr is just a warr, minor stealth nerf perhaps +non stacking stealth buffs or longer forced visibility would make it a little less i suppose irritating.

The biggest nerf needs to come to warriors, every update they get a boost to a skill or ability, they just spam hundred blades and your down. It’s ridiculous. Leave mesmers out because unless you play it, you can’t call it OP.

[My personal opinion is that no class is really OP, a player playing there class and knowing there class well doesn’t make it OP, it just means they are playing better than you.]

Black Teagan.9215:

Dual.8953:

Even together this suggestion breaks S/D control and P/D condi, they’ll lose they’re offense and defense in one fell swoop, setting them down lower than S/P and P/P. Completely ineffective in PvP and PvE.

Do you read what I wrote?

EVERY Thief Weapon get a higher dmg, not only Dagger, but the dmg bonus of Backstab will reduce to +50%, so that BS isnt much stronger, but all other weaponskills has a better efficacy.

Nothing of that would have a negative effect on the dmg or weapons.

BTW: S/D has nothing to do with Control. S/D is an evade and movement weaponset, for Control use S/P.

I’ve played S/D since beta, and before Larcenous Strike, S/D was always about dazing repeatedly with tactical strike. Adding power isn’t going to make up for S/D’s loss of that, nor will it make up for P/D’s loss of condition. They both make their distiction from their x/P counterparts by their access to stealth via CnD.