Guild Wars 2

This may have been discussed in previous threads or someone may be annoyed that I post this, I just wanted to perhaps ensure that at least one GW Developer or person read this takes it to heart.

A few things, I am not a “ganker” nor someone that enjoys griefing or annoying players while leveling in fact quite the opposite. I am enjoy the heart pumping excitment tired to the random pvp engagements that occur at any level, in true world pvp fashion (caveat: not World VS World, World PVP)

In other games protecting the questers, helping out others, or “calling in the troops” at random was a huge boon to the playing experience. It was “thrilling”]

I know the game is designed differently and that there will be those that cite “Play xxxx game” or go back to XXXX game, however I am just stating my thoughts here.

I love the combat I am adjusting to the mechanics and like the depth so far with the classes. This is just one very important part of MMO for myself that this game currently lacks. I know I have PVP fix options, but it still is similar to logging into “a battle ground” or a “play area” where you pvp.

I always compared the pvp in world fights in other games, to the “real thing” vs the battleground/games more of almost a competitive approach to pvp. Both cool but also very different.

Also bring on dueling

Cheers all

The one drastic game changing element here that is missing is putting your pvp skills into action when your least expecting it.

idea: Aion’s “rifts”.
you’re welcome

arent the dynamic quests here like that?

Agreed. Open World pvp would make this game absolutely incredible. I love that nervousness of always having to look over your shoulder while questing.

Just for devils advocate, how you will keep PK’ing from happening. What about those who do not want to be hunted or play PvP in the open world? What will you recomend for those players?

I STRONGLY disagree with open world PvP . It’s my #1 reason for not playing most MMOs in fact. The last thing I want is to be doing a dynamic event or heart and have someone PK me forcing me to waypoint halfway across the map and then run back. That’s not fun to me

They can say it’s open world PVP and then make it so that you can’t attack anyone but NPCs… almost hilarious to think about…

GrimShade.8091:

Just for devils advocate, how you will keep PK’ing from happening. What about those who do not want to be hunted or play PvP in the open world? What will you recomend for those players?

um its pve servers and some pvp servers. you would pick and choose.

not sure why this logic isnt always carrying over as this type of concern seems to crop up alot for no reason

Adine.2184:

I STRONGLY disagree with open world PvP . It’s my #1 reason for not playing most MMOs in fact. The last thing I want is to be doing a dynamic event or heart and have someone PK me forcing me to waypoint halfway across the map and then run back. That’s not fun to me

see above post, people who roll on this type of server would choose this type of game play. You would not have to participate other then choice.

]

There’s no competition over resource nodes, rare monsters, rewards, events, heart objectives or anything else in PvE, since it’s designed with cooperation in mind, and the lore doesn’t support factions or something similar. Taking that into account, world PvP would be meaningless.

All world PvP would be meaningless ganks, harassing, trolling and general kittenness.

“In other games protecting the questers, helping out others, or “calling in the troops” at random was a huge boon to the playing experience. It was “thrilling”]” I disagree. Why? Because of what I can relate to (WoW, Rift, it wasn’t a problem in SWTOR though), people stopped caring… If a town was under siege and every NPC was continually killed, my experience tells me that people doesn’t call for assistance, and if they do, they’d get turned down. In my experience, when such an event accoured, people who tried to quest there, simply found something better to do and come back another time.
Why didn’t people care? You might ask yourself and the answer is quite easy:
1. The NPCs would respawn within 5 minutes again anyway, so it wouldn’t affect those who tried to level there for long.
2. It didn’t affect those who didn’t try to quest there anyway.

And to the overall topic:
Please keep in mind, that what Anet is trying to do, is binding each server together into tightly knit communities. Hence why 1. there are no duelling system (yet?), 2. there are only 1 faction and 3. people can only have characters on ONE server at a time (so no backstabbing or bearing of two flags, if you get what I mean).
So why try and instigate a competative mood within the server, when one has already been made effective towards other servers?

Have you tried playing WVW as a small gank-team? that might give you the fix you are looking for.

Open World PvP with the rift idea sound good to me.

Sierra.6352:

“In other games protecting the questers, helping out others, or “calling in the troops” at random was a huge boon to the playing experience. It was “thrilling”]” I disagree. Why? Because of what I can relate to (WoW, Rift, it wasn’t a problem in SWTOR though), people stopped caring… If a town was under siege and every NPC was continually killed, my experience tells me that people doesn’t call for assistance, and if they do, they’d get turned down. In my experience, when such an event accoured, people who tried to quest there, simply found something better to do and come back another time.
Why didn’t people care? You might ask yourself and the answer is quite easy:
1. The NPCs would respawn within 5 minutes again anyway, so it wouldn’t affect those who tried to level there for long.
2. It didn’t affect those who didn’t try to quest there anyway.

And to the overall topic:
Please keep in mind, that what Anet is trying to do, is binding each server together into tightly knit communities. Hence why 1. there are no duelling system (yet?), 2. there are only 1 faction and 3. people can only have characters on ONE server at a time (so no backstabbing or bearing of two flags, if you get what I mean).
So why try and instigate a competative mood within the server, when one has already been made effective towards other servers?

yet i feel more disconnected in the game in the PVE world when soloing then any recent game in memory. the compellingness of “grouping up” is almost non existent unless you are with your buddies because everything is so “shared”

its like a big world of “other generic characters” that may as well be npcs.

Keep in mind i am generalizing a bit, if u have guildmates/friends pve is cool.

I think this would just add alot more to it.

Yeah i get it its not “designed” in some places for it, however this is a suggestion forum.

GrimShade.8091:

Just for devils advocate, how you will keep PK’ing from happening. What about those who do not want to be hunted or play PvP in the open world? What will you recomend for those players?

Playing devil’s advocate too: What’s the difference between PK’ing and PvP? As someone who belongs to the MUD-UO-L1-DAoC generation, “PvP” is just a younglings terminology to PK. They’re one and the same.

If you want to be very specific and separate them, then from my personal observation, PK is literally what these younglings call “open world PvP”. And PvP as itself only, are the arenas or as GW2 calls it “sPvP”.

Anyway, to the OP and topic at-hand:
No. GW/GW2 was made as a cooperative game, even the lore was made that way. We are heroes not ordinary citizens. It’s us vs. the evil in the world.

PK’ing, as it is or was correctly called (ie “open world PvP”), doesn’t fit this game, even if you add servers that are “PK enabled”, it just won’t make sense at all. ArenaNet does everything based on lore. If I will take a guess, it’s lore first before programming. Other games do the programming first then create the lore afterwards (which usually ends up creating a bad game and lore – usually).

This game is cooperative. Not competitive. Well The PVE is intended to be.

So… what’s your lore explanation for why allies are fighting each other while also doing renown hearts and other events?

How do you choose whether to fight someone or cooperate with them?

How does this work when there are cooperative events going around with lots of AoE, in which you may accidentally be hitting and killing other players without meaning to?

Open-world PvP would destroy the spontaneous cooperation that makes this game stand out so much from other MMOs.

It wouldn’t work with the way the game is designed, due to DEs being the core content. What do you do with a DE in an open PvP setting?

Umm, how do you prupose this would work the way the game is now? Have you even played GW2?

its interesting that all the people who are claiming it would ruin the game are people that seem to be threatened by this suggestion.

id never force this apon anyone who didnt want it.

Just a bit bland running around the cool landscapes with no danger as your leveling.

I get that the pve’ers won’t agree with me

Silverwing.3416:

So… what’s your lore explanation for why allies are fighting each other while also doing renown hearts and other events?

How do you choose whether to fight someone or cooperate with them?

How does this work when there are cooperative events going around with lots of AoE, in which you may accidentally be hitting and killing other players without meaning to?

Open-world PvP would destroy the spontaneous cooperation that makes this game stand out so much from other MMOs.

so many ways to work this into the game.

GW characters are all heroes.

PvP in the mists is a sport. No one really dies, they get ‘marked’ on defeat with the Finish! and teleported to their waypoint.

In WvW, you are pinned against other ‘heroes’ of alternate dimensions that see you as an enemy, while you see them as enemies too. They don’t think they are doing anything wrong, they are just defending their world in the mists. And whatever keeps people alive before they die works in here too. No hero dies. All get ‘marked’ and can teleport away.

Duels should be in the game, an work as long as both parties agree. Starting and ending in a friendly manner. They should eventually add them.

In PvE, they cooperate with others heroes.

In Guild Wars, you can’t be a cutthroat, a traitor, a backstabber, an evil character. Because you re a hero.

If you want to be an evil character that kills other heroes, Guild Wars is not your game.

The only way to have PK in the game would be if Largos were a playable race. Which I doubt will ever happen, since they are not heroes, they kill all sorts of stuff as long as it’s their target.

Synergy.8934:

Umm, how do you prupose this would work the way the game is now? Have you even played GW2?

now the insults start for my suggestion. lol.

I am confused explain how it wouldnt work exactly?

Here is one idea.

You get a skill thats called “Outlaw” and use it when u want to flag (to avoid aoe and dynamic events in which you hit other players in error) and u toggle it off when your finished. You have repercussions if you kill other players, (like being perm flagged)

BTW that is how Tera does it pretty effectively on pvp servers.

The lack of open world pvp makes the game incredibly more shallow.. yeah this is something I really miss in gw2.

“This game is cooperative, not competitive” That’s sad : as we can’t feel any epicness in gw2 dungeons, we can’t feel any “danger” in the open world.

Unfortunately the game isn’t designed for Open world pvp, and I think it was a terrible mistake now that I know what the game feels like.

Too much rainbows and care bears is not necessarily a good thing.

I am up for Open PvP. Like it was mentioned- many people don’t want it, so it should be optional, for example different servers, but yes- this game needs PvP in PvE world:)

Open world PvP is known as WvW.

Hughs.6549:

The lack of open world pvp makes the game incredibly more shallow.. yeah this is something I really miss in gw2.

“This game is cooperative, not competitive” That’s sad : as we can’t feel any epicness in gw2 dungeons, we can’t feel any “danger” in the open world.

Unfortunately the game isn’t designed for Open world pvp, and I think it was a terrible mistake now that I know what the game feels like.

Too much rainbows and care bears is not necessarily a good thing.

People are telling you what the intent behind the game is- this is a co-operative game, it is part of it’s basic design philosophy, there is no denying it because you don’t like it.
It is also one of the main drawing points of this game.
To then go and throw words like rainbows and carebears around because you can’t attack other players and you think that makes the game somehow shallow, just sounds silly.

Oh and on topic: No thanks- I really would not like to see open word PvP or whatever you want to call it. It will add nothing to the game-play and will actually harm it.

One of the draws of GW1 and a draw here is that you can play in a PvE environment and participate in PvP on the same server. It isn’t an all or none choice.

Once you set up servers that are open world “PvP” then you have to have a group of developers that are dedicated to working on that. You have now divided your resources. You have to make sure that you don’t mess up the PvE servers catering to PvP servers and vice versa.

I would prefer that they work on the PvP that we already have that everyone can play to make it more attractive to those that want open world PvP.

And honestly, all games shouldn’t be the same game. So what if other games have PvE servers and PvP servers…..it doesn’t mean they all have to.

Katz.5143:

One of the draws of GW1 and a draw here is that you can play in a PvE environment and participate in PvP on the same server. It isn’t an all or none choice.

And honestly, all games shouldn’t be the same game. So what if other games have PvE servers and PvP servers…..it doesn’t mean they all have to.

to me, the last statement absolutely sums it up best. not all games are, or should be, all things for all people. past games that have attempted to do that have to a large measure hamstrung themselves. imo, we’re seeing a division in the genre, bringing elements to a game that people do want, then working to fully implement and develop those elements. anet has steadfastly stood behind their intent, and a part of that intent with this game was building cohesiveness and cooperation within worlds, not competition.

i’m saying this with all respect, please understand it: as wow is no longer my game, and rift is no longer my game, and tsw failed to grab me … perhaps gw2 isn’t your game because it doesn’t have these elements you seek. i don’t believe that’s a fault, or a lack, on the part of gw2; i do believe it is that this game appeals to players like me who seek cooperative play as opposed to competitive play. this isn’t a failing, it isn’t a lack, it’s just a different approach that actually does appeal to a great mass of players.

In short, Open world PvP = WoW, I am probably not the only one who enjoys a Heart quest without having to keep looking over my shoulder. I enjoy GW2 because i can quest through it at my own leasure without the inconvenience of being ganked by bored lvl 80s

Arena net is highly against Griefing and that is why there is no open world PvP because with open world PvP griefing will surely follow.

Some people enjoy open world pvp. Most people however, will just form massive gank squads and kill everyone else in sight.
Just do WvW it’s about the same thing, you want to level whilst in danger? Make a level 1 and do WvW.

It is not fun to be killed over and over, which is what people will do to new players, PvP in PvE is just bad. Dueling will likely be added and thats fine, it fits but PvP doesn’t. It ruins the game anyway, the races are all working together to kill the dragons but here comes guild X ready to kill all the newbies who spawn in Queensdale. Meanwhile they ignore the mass of enemies causing trouble in the land already. It does not fit in this game, there are no factions. Being able to kill each other barely adds anything to the game, there might be some legitimate fun to it but the negatives far out way anything good.

I talked to Jon Peters during one of the betas, he said Duelling will be post launch sometime, so that’s good!

I don’t PvP and I don’t want to be forced to PvP.

I have played lots of open pvp world. and while i admit there is some thrilll in it it is ruined because 90% of fights you have to fight you are fighting against someone lot higher level, greatly better geared or at least greatly higher number of people. even gw2 has downscaling on lower areas the high level people have huge advantage over low level one so it wouldn’t work.

If you want open pvp then www is great choice. it has dynamic events with npcs and lots of people searching to kill you and lot people to kill.

I hope they fix pants looking like gloves before they add dueling and chance to block duel invites automatically. hate that duel spam when i try do something.

I would like this, but only in areas where there isn’t anything important to be done. For example, I don’t want to be randomly owned by a wandering band of 50 enemies while trying to do something in a quest area. However they’d have to make a completely new area to do thi- OWAIT. Add it in the expansion. Whenever that will be coming.

I just don’t want people in the current areas to get owned for no reason while trying to finish levelling or while trying to collect ore or something. The mobs are already annoying enough.

I agree this would be fun in specific zones with specific goals. A sort of free for all with quests and challenges. Also an arena in every major city for dueling would be fun.

yeah but there are tons of gankers out there. open world pvp would have been easier not harder to code. The entire game desgn seems to rest on how they felt they should deal with pvp. You want open world pvp you want a different game.

for every player that loves pvp there are 5 that hate it. Open world pvp is a known game killer. This has been proven multiple times in other games. You may like it, but the devs would be pure idiots to implement it.

My prediction: never ever gonna happen.

I love open world PvP, my only issue is the lore. The only factions that I know of which would fight one another would be the Humans and Charr. So you could make the lands that border the two nations open for PvP, but what of the other races?

Maybe the Asura could go to war on the Sylvari cause they want the uber ore under their tree (Avatar style).

The Norn would get drunk and be at war with everyone.

Something that I don’t think has been considered… but all races are a part of the same faction, meaning who would we be fighting?

Didn’t read all posts so if this was already said, I’m sorry.
But how would that work, given there are no factions and the closest would be different servers in wvw…But then every map should be multiserver? or it would be only for overflows? but then you should be able to join an overflow anytime you wish to do pvp, so in the end would be just like the current wvw, only instead of 4 maps it would be available in every map…
The other option would be everyone vs everyone but then bye bye DEs, any sort of collaboration, guilds, partys, dungeons, etc.

I really don’t see how this could be done without redoing the whole game.

The game already has open PvP, that’s called WvW. But the idea of a PvE map (like the level 80 one) with open PvP (like WvW, of course, with the name of enemy hidden) looks really interesting, of course this should be optional, an instance of a PvE map but you still can play normally without PvP.

Add PvP servers. Can’t be that hard.

You can get almost exactly what you’re describing by PvEing in the WvW area. There are dynamic events, quest chains, and the constant threat of being attacked by other players.

If we had PvE – PvP servers; sure, why not I guess.
If not, then nope, horrible kitten idea and I hope this never see’s the day of light.
I am not a huge PvP lover at all, and I’m not going to stick around like I did on Aion and get ganked every 13 seconds whilst questing. Besides WvW IS Open PvP lol.

if implemented, maybe there can be a gold sink for a PKer’s Handbook. you can buy it for 60 Gold at merchants or trainers, and it will “unlock” your PvE status to this world PvP/PK mode, allowing people to gun for you when they feel like it. thus, players that don’t like it need not buy it. maybe even make it a Gem store item, for 10 Gems. your name will be a different color than everyone else’s, and regular PvE players would be able to go after you (as well as other PK’ers). Karma can be awarded off of PKs, as well for an interesting journey.

or just add it to the commander title, so everyone knows where they are at anytime on the map.

“Oh wow, this event is so fun, I want to do it again!” suddenly, 20 strong goon kill squad camping the area

“Hey guys, rich platinium node next to no wait, PKers”

While yeah i agree with most that it simply does not fit the lore, a game with a similar form of combat and down scaling system, that have actual opposing factions it could work really well, since with the lack of huge gear and lvl advantage over your target it would actually be a LOT more fair than in any other MMO to date.

But again as i said it does NOT fit into the lore/setting of GW2

Way back in the old olden days, Ultima Online added the concept of world shards. Each server had (still has?) a PvE and a PvP version, or shard, of the world, and you could travel back and forth between them.

Once this happened, the contrast was very stark. Only a tiny minority of players participated in the PvP shard, and many of them only because they had a house over there. The (vastly overwhelming) majority stuck to the PvE shard. The PvP worlds were unpopulated wastelands.

So there’s your problem in a nutshell. Is there really enough interest to warrant the development and maintenance of PvP servers? I’m not sure that there is.

And I would hasten to add that it’s not just about PvP vs. PvE play preference. There are a good many players who typically enjoy PvP who wouldn’t participate, because of the considerably increased griefing potential that such an environment invites.

So it’s not the PvP crowd you’d be trying to appeal to here, but a distinct subset of that crowd.

This was a concept that was likely pitched and kicked around when the game was first being conceptualized. Obviously, the developers opted to make cooperative play their foundation.

There’d have to be a real compelling reason to do an about-face on that on certain servers, even (or especially) if it’s just one. Personally, I don’t see it happening.