Guild Wars 2

While the concept of a Trading Post-only commerce system might seem excellent on paper, there are several major flaws in this system.

The biggest flaw is that you are essentially punishing players for trading.

You tax each player not once, but twice for each item sold on the trading post.

I do understand the importance of gold sinks in an MMO, and that they exist to reduce inflation, however I find 15% of anything sold to be a bit too much.

(I don’t want to hear any arguments about how this can “prevent” powertrading until you read what I have added below.)

The next biggest flaw is that any player with enough gold can corner an entire market and blow prices up into completely absurd numbers.

If there are 100 of a particular item available for 40 gold each, a player could easily come along and buy every last one of those items and relist them for 400 gold each.

What happens next?
Said player takes his earnings, and does the same thing with another item, and another item……. and another item.

Outrageous.

What is so horribly wrong with allowing players to trade with eachother?

Are you trying to “protect” us from getting scammed?

Because the way I see it, we are already getting scammed (with no way to avoid it) by using the player manipulated monopoly called the trading post.

Get rid of the trading post-only system.

Allow us to trade with eachother.

…and watch this forum get flooded with “I’ve been scammed!” threads.

No thanks. Keep the trading post the way it is.

uknortherner.2670:

…and watch this forum get flooded with “I’ve been scammed!” threads.

No thanks. Keep the trading post the way it is.

I’d rather see “I’ve been scammed threads” than see good dedicated players, pleading with anet to let them grind gold in order to afford gouged TP prices.

I wouldn’t. You seem to believe that because you have a problem with the TP, that everybody else does. Some may, but many do not, including me. Hell, I remember the GW1 days when players were screaming for an auction house because of all the scamming going on!

TheBlackLeech.9360:

uknortherner.2670:

…and watch this forum get flooded with “I’ve been scammed!” threads.

No thanks. Keep the trading post the way it is.

I’d rather see “I’ve been scammed threads” than see good dedicated players, pleading with anet to let them grind gold in order to afford gouged TP prices.

I’d prefer dealing with gouged TP prices over listening to people spamming gouged item prices over the chat. Seriously, in Guild Wars, players decided that 100g for items wasn’t enough, so they decided to charge 100g + insert hundreds of ectos here. And ectos were what… 8-10 gold on average in Guild Wars 1? There’s no bloody advantage to direct trading.

Supply and demand. if the prices get too ridiculous, no one buys and the price is forced to come down. meanwhile others are posting more of that item for less because they want to be the one to make the money. if you see it at 40 gold, buy it. Then you can sell it or use it. no one can really corner the market because no one can controle the manufacture of these products. Everyone has the same opportunity to monitor the TP and buy it for 40G. Look how many times someones undercut your prices, driving the price of an item down.

uknortherner.2670:

I wouldn’t. You seem to believe that because you have a problem with the TP, that everybody else does. Some may, but many do not, including me. Hell, I remember the GW1 days when players were screaming for an auction house because of all the scamming going on!

I never said remove the trading post.

Not having a player to player trading system is honestly a terrible idea.

Imagine if they did implement a trading post in Gw1, and at the same time removed the ability to trade freely between players.

What do we possibly gain from not having a player-to-player trading system?

I think not having a trading system helps the economy. it forces players to use the TP where as if there was a bypass when prices get too ridiculous, players may choose to deal exclusivly in trading. Then the chat is flooded with WTB/WTS instead of utilizing the TP. This way, it’s an easily accessable means to trade out merchandise without needing to constantly call out in chat in order to remain competitive in the market. easy peazy lemone squeezy. Price gets driven down plenty just from more players posting more merchandise.

uknortherner.2670:

I wouldn’t. You seem to believe that because you have a problem with the TP, that everybody else does. Some may, but many do not, including me. Hell, I remember the GW1 days when players were screaming for an auction house because of all the scamming going on!

If there was an auction house, then people would have a choice in that case.

GW1 trade had its limitations (e.g. needing items to function as high-value currency), but let’s not forget that entire towns (district 1) had to be used as trade post spamming grounds. There was no system, no rules or tools to follow the market. Power-trading killed just as savvy marketing (and manipulation) does now.

The differences are that items have exploded in GW2. From crafting materials (which were mostly low-value in GW1), components, item tiers, level requirements, mystic forge and, of course, micro-transaction currency that can be had to anyone making gold hand-over-fist.

I don’t want to go back to GW1’s terrible trade system, and while I don’t think BLTP needs to be abolished it’s rife with issues and open to exploitation. While it’s not directly harmful to anyone, it can often be unfavorable to people who choose to play Guild Wars while others play Market Wars.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

uknortherner.2670:

…and watch this forum get flooded with “I’ve been scammed!” threads.

No thanks. Keep the trading post the way it is.

I’d rather see “I’ve been scammed threads” than see good dedicated players, pleading with anet to let them grind gold in order to afford gouged TP prices.

I’d prefer dealing with gouged TP prices over listening to people spamming gouged item prices over the chat. Seriously, in Guild Wars, players decided that 100g for items wasn’t enough, so they decided to charge 100g + insert hundreds of ectos here. And ectos were what… 8-10 gold on average in Guild Wars 1? There’s no bloody advantage to direct trading.

No advantage?

Never heard of a monopoly?

When you are the only person offering something desirable, you can charge whatever you want for it.

To pretend that people don’t corner the market and gouge prices using the TP is pure ignorance.

Why do you think a person couldn’t buy the item from all of the gamers then sell it his own way, even by trading? Those who play AH stay there in LA, as it would happen with a free trade system. I certainly doubt you would see people selling and buying all over Tyria, more likely ALL in LA as it was in Kamadan.

To my eyes, so just a personal vision I have, not forcing nor saying anyone agrees, the cons would be:
-Almost everyone would spend most of the time in Lion’s Arch, even more than already happens, for they would have to stay in one place to check all the prices and such…to my eyes it would somehow kill the game. Make the city overcrowded and laggy, need to create Overflows again and making it a real mess, since I don’t see Overflows servers as Districts in GW1.

-People tricking others who don’t know the current price into selling something at a way lower value as I used to see happening in Guild Wars 1, or selling items to some naive person for a significatively higher value.

-Annoying, endless spam, killing any kind of map conversation, most of all given the lack of (Party search) system in the game.

-No one would actually sell on LT anymore, nor buy. Who would be so silly to pay fees when you can sell items for free? Who would buy an item that the seller is supposed to sell for an higher value in order to be repaid of the fees he pays? And if LT won’t be active anymore, for people would not use it, those who now need to quickly make room in inv, while running some areas won’t be able to anymore.

As for pros…the only one I can see is no fees.
Free prices not always help.

I disagree with the fact that 15% is too much of a fee for TP usage, specially considering the amount of gold being introduced in the system with dungeon and now southsun farming.

I also don’t think that having a trading option means that prices will go down. If there was one, most people would just use the TP as a guide to ser ther prices. While I do agree that there are people price fixing to make money, I don’t see how adding trading will do anything about it. If someone is doing that on the TP, nothing would prevent them from just doing the same on people advertising on map chat, or even advertising (I’ve seen it on other games) “I buy as many X as you’re willing to sell for Y money”. Plus, if people really wanted to fight price fixing, nothing prevents you from refusing to buy a particular product for that price and instead create a purchase order for a lower price, or if you’re selling, sell for a lower price or fulfill lower price purchase orders, maybe even advertise on map “I’m selling this product at this price, create a purchase order for as many as you need and I’ll fulfill it”. The only case I can see a trading option to have an effect would be when giving someone the mats in exchange of crafting something, but since there’s really nothing special you could craft outside of the stuff needed for legendaries that you couldn’t get an equivalent for much cheaper already, that point is also moot, IMHO.

In the end, the way I see it, the only advantage I can see of player to player trading would be to avoid the 15% tax, which as I said I believe it’s really needed, and instead would have quite a few disadvantages (map spam in LA, the need to be there for actual trading in the first place, the prevention of one of the biggest gold sinks, which in turn fuels inflation and so on).

Pip.2094:

Why do you think a person couldn’t buy the item from all of the gamers then sell it his own way, even by trading? Those who play AH stay there in LA, as it would happen with a free trade system. I certainly doubt you would see people selling and buying all over Tyria, more likely ALL in LA as it was in Kamadan.

To my eyes, so just a personal vision I have, not forcing nor saying anyone agrees, the cons would be:
-Almost everyone would spend most of the time in Lion’s Arch, even more than already happens, for they would have to stay in one place to check all the prices and such…to my eyes it would somehow kill the game. Make the city overcrowded and laggy, need to create Overflows again and making it a real mess, since I don’t see Overflows servers as Districts in GW1.

-People tricking others who don’t know the current price into selling something at a way lower value as I used to see happening in Guild Wars 1, or selling items to some naive person for a significatively higher value.

-Annoying, endless spam, killing any kind of map conversation, most of all given the lack of (Party search) system in the game.

-No one would actually sell on LT anymore, nor buy. Who would be so silly to pay fees when you can sell items for free? Who would buy an item that the seller is supposed to sell for an higher value in order to be repaid of the fees he pays? And if LT won’t be active anymore, for people would not use it, those who now need to quickly make room in inv, while running some areas won’t be able to anymore.

As for pros…the only one I can see is no fees.
Free prices not always help.

You have never wanted to trade items other than currency?

If I got a sweet exotic piece of armor or a weapon that I don’t need I could trade with someone in the same boat.

Got a rune that you’d like on an exotic with no black lion salvage kit?
Trade the item to someone for the rune, and you both make out.

The entire point of crafting in any MMO is to promote a healthy economy.

You maxed weaponsmith, but you still need armor?
Someone else maxed armorsmith but still needs a weapon?

Trade.

Trade Trade Trade.

Not just buy and sell.

The one thing all of you are completely ignoring is that you can’t offer someone 25 leather squares for 10 vials of blood.

You can’t offer someone a weapon for a piece of armor.

You can’t trade someone a batch of cookies if they trade you the ingredients for the dough and the chocolate.

…and another thing…. so many of you guys are comparing to GW1… but you are forgetting one crucial detail.

Listing fees.

In GW1:
If you want to sell an item for 100g… you advertise and nobody bites…
You think “Hmm…. I’ll try 98g”
still nothing…. You try again, a third time for 95g
…and then you make the trade.

In Gw2, you would pay your listing fee three times for adjusting your price.

Why?

How many offers do you see that are perpetually stuck on the TP simply because some poor guy made a price too high, and he would like to relist for a lower price, but he will lose out on 35g?

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Pip.2094:

Why do you think a person couldn’t buy the item from all of the gamers then sell it his own way, even by trading? Those who play AH stay there in LA, as it would happen with a free trade system. I certainly doubt you would see people selling and buying all over Tyria, more likely ALL in LA as it was in Kamadan.

To my eyes, so just a personal vision I have, not forcing nor saying anyone agrees, the cons would be:
-Almost everyone would spend most of the time in Lion’s Arch, even more than already happens, for they would have to stay in one place to check all the prices and such…to my eyes it would somehow kill the game. Make the city overcrowded and laggy, need to create Overflows again and making it a real mess, since I don’t see Overflows servers as Districts in GW1.

-People tricking others who don’t know the current price into selling something at a way lower value as I used to see happening in Guild Wars 1, or selling items to some naive person for a significatively higher value.

-Annoying, endless spam, killing any kind of map conversation, most of all given the lack of (Party search) system in the game.

-No one would actually sell on LT anymore, nor buy. Who would be so silly to pay fees when you can sell items for free? Who would buy an item that the seller is supposed to sell for an higher value in order to be repaid of the fees he pays? And if LT won’t be active anymore, for people would not use it, those who now need to quickly make room in inv, while running some areas won’t be able to anymore.

As for pros…the only one I can see is no fees.
Free prices not always help.

You have never wanted to trade items other than currency?

If I got a sweet exotic piece of armor or a weapon that I don’t need I could trade with someone in the same boat.

Got a rune that you’d like on an exotic with no black lion salvage kit?
Trade the item to someone for the rune, and you both make out.

The entire point of crafting in any MMO is to promote a healthy economy.

You maxed weaponsmith, but you still need armor?
Someone else maxed armorsmith but still needs a weapon?

Trade.

Trade Trade Trade.

Not just buy and sell.

The one thing all of you are completely ignoring is that you can’t offer someone 25 leather squares for 10 vials of blood.

You can’t offer someone a weapon for a piece of armor.

You can’t trade someone a batch of cookies if they trade you the ingredients for the dough and the chocolate.

You seriously think there would possibly exist a chance that people would use that only to trade item for item and not turn the market in what I said? That is naive, since half of the people in this game can only think to max their profits, it would only be yet another chance for exploitation.
If you want to exchange the item, sell it and use the profit for buying the other, it is as simple as that.
As for the chance to lower the price of an item. When you have a fee of 35 g means you are selling something extremely rare, that few people are selling as well. It’s not like you have 150000 other people selling that same items like copper ore. I think that whenever you set the price for an item costing hundreds of gold you have to expect it will take weeks or even months to be bought and the choice to take the risk is yours. Otherwise you accept the price offered by the highest buyer and be happy with that money. If there was no fee what would people do? Constanly resetting the item for -1 copper to win each other?

TheBlackLeech.9360:

The next biggest flaw is that any player with enough gold can corner an entire market and blow prices up into completely absurd numbers.

If there are 100 of a particular item available for 40 gold each, a player could easily come along and buy every last one of those items and relist them for 400 gold each.

You’re litereally saying it’s easy to have 4000 gold. If that’s so, how’s 400 gold an issue. It’s ten times as easy to get …

What happens next?

If the item is actually worth 40 gold, the person cornering the market will be undercut and lose his investment. If the item was actually worth 400 gold, the original people were selling it for far too few, basically scamming themselves. Eventually this would have happened anyways.
Cornering a market is only possible at the correct pricepoint for a particular item, otherwise people simply undercut you with big margins.

marnick.4305:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

The next biggest flaw is that any player with enough gold can corner an entire market and blow prices up into completely absurd numbers.

If there are 100 of a particular item available for 40 gold each, a player could easily come along and buy every last one of those items and relist them for 400 gold each.

You’re litereally saying it’s easy to have 4000 gold. If that’s so, how’s 400 gold an issue. It’s ten times as easy to get …

What happens next?

If the item is actually worth 40 gold, the person cornering the market will be undercut and lose his investment. If the item was actually worth 400 gold, the original people were selling it for far too few, basically scamming themselves. Eventually this would have happened anyways.
Cornering a market is only possible at the correct pricepoint for a particular item, otherwise people simply undercut you with big margins.

Wrong.

You clearly have no knowledge on how to play the market.

You buy all the items for the price you want (say 40g) and relist them (for 100g)
Then you create buy orders to ensure that anyone selling (for 40g or less) is automatically sent straight to you, and you relist them as they come in.

The “price”
of any item is what is listed for on the trading post (assuming the item does not have an innate value based on other factors ie: lvl 70+ rares selling for their mean in ecto salvage)

If you make the lowest listings, you are changing the price of that item.