Trading Between Players?
well just a mail it to them? it’s not rly hard
Elona is Love, Elona is life.
well just a mail it to them? it’s not rly hard
The problem with mailing is that if you want to trade two items of equal rarity (like the Pre-cursors) the trade would be based on trust.
Face to face item trading (no gold) would be good for this reason since while items might be of equal rarity, they might not be of equal value on the TP.
Life is a journey.
Time is a river.
The door is ajar.
Time is a river.
The door is ajar.
well just a mail it to them? it’s not rly hard
The problem with mailing is that if you want to trade two items of equal rarity (like the Pre-cursors) the trade would be based on trust.
Face to face item trading (no gold) would be good for this reason since while items might be of equal rarity, they might not be of equal value on the TP.
If the items have different values on the trading post, then a 1:1 swap means that somebody is being ripped off. Sure, they have equal rarity, and thus supply. That just means that one of the items is wanted more than the other.
Yes the game need this occasionally it can be quicker to trade in la than tp while their at it they could add party search.
There is a reason why this was left out of the game. This system was in place in GW1 and even with the precautions tons of people still managed to get scammed. The solution was to remove all the variables that anyone could get scammed by. That solution is a trading system such as what we have now. The player knows exactly what they want to do and the system can’t lie to them or do anything to cheat them. To make a trade outside of this system a level of trust has to be established between both parties that neither will rip off the other. Now I’m not saying the following is a good idea but certainly better than the face to face trade. Allow items to be listed in private offers between two players (could even have to guild only listings). This way the TP still handles the transaction offering the security of the system. For private transactions instead of the price being limited to coins the price of the item could be another item. Then the other party can’t get their item unless they pay with the required item to complete the transaction. This way the other party can safely cancel the listing if the other party fails to meet it’s end. A coin fee can be charged to complete the trade from both parties say 7.5% equal share of the TP fee. The guild only listings would allow members to offer items to their guild only as this would allow them to sell something cheaper to them without risk and the standar TP fee would still apply.
Have any of you ever seen another MMO with as little trade spam as GW2 has ?
I haven’t. The key difference is that the trading post forces anonymous trading, removing most of the incentive for trade spam. Any method that removes that anonymity is a method that brings incentives for trade spam to begin.
I don’t want trade spam to return.
Have any of you ever seen another MMO with as little trade spam as GW2 has ?
I haven’t. The key difference is that the trading post forces anonymous trading, removing most of the incentive for trade spam. Any method that removes that anonymity is a method that brings incentives for trade spam to begin.
I don’t want trade spam to return.
That same anonymity is also why there’s vehement undercutting in the Trading Post: because it’s the only way to guarantee that your stuff sells.
So either you deal with wanting-to-sell or wanting-to-buy spam in a chat window, which can be filtered out, or you deal with undercutting in the Trading Post.
Both have their issues.
Have any of you ever seen another MMO with as little trade spam as GW2 has ?
I haven’t. The key difference is that the trading post forces anonymous trading, removing most of the incentive for trade spam. Any method that removes that anonymity is a method that brings incentives for trade spam to begin.
I don’t want trade spam to return.
That same anonymity is also why there’s vehement undercutting in the Trading Post: because it’s the only way to guarantee that your stuff sells.
So either you deal with wanting-to-sell or wanting-to-buy spam in a chat window, which can be filtered out, or you deal with undercutting in the Trading Post.
Both have their issues.
What’s the problem with undercutting ?
All it does is bring the buy and sell prices together. Once they are only 1 copper apart, then undercutting becomes impossible.
Have any of you ever seen another MMO with as little trade spam as GW2 has ?
I haven’t. The key difference is that the trading post forces anonymous trading, removing most of the incentive for trade spam. Any method that removes that anonymity is a method that brings incentives for trade spam to begin.
I don’t want trade spam to return.
I hadn’t thought of that but yes that would be a side effect of players seeking deals with a system outside of the current TP. Which takes me back to the point if you are trading outside of that system is should be with people you trust which would mean nobody spamming trade related chatter. Which also means no need for a system outside of what is already in the game to complete the trade. To be honest the current TP makes it so easy to buy and sell what you need/want that I really see no reason to not use it in preference for trading item for item with complete strangers. Which is why the TP is there.
i better method would be when you send the item in the mail the character has to pay the fee to unlock and the money get to send 2 you
The only reason this own’t happen is because anet wants tons of gold sinks and player to player trading outside of trading post completely ignores the 15% tax and ergo no gold sink for trades and god forbid people are able to play without tons of excessive costs.
President of Believegate
They left person to person trade out of the game on purpose.
They wanted to make sure there is no conflict about someone saying what and item is and selling you another that looks the same.
They also wanted to force players to use a Gold Sink of 15% when they sell there items to help keep the economy stable.
If a person decides to use the in game mail to try and save the 15% fee then they are assuming all the risk of being scammed on there own and no items or money will be replaced in the event of a deal going sour.
Have any of you ever seen another MMO with as little trade spam as GW2 has ?
I haven’t. The key difference is that the trading post forces anonymous trading, removing most of the incentive for trade spam. Any method that removes that anonymity is a method that brings incentives for trade spam to begin.
I don’t want trade spam to return.
That same anonymity is also why there’s vehement undercutting in the Trading Post: because it’s the only way to guarantee that your stuff sells.
So either you deal with wanting-to-sell or wanting-to-buy spam in a chat window, which can be filtered out, or you deal with undercutting in the Trading Post.
Both have their issues.
You know how I asked “What’s the problem with undercutting ?”. Hold off on answering that until you’ve answered the following: Why doesn’t undercutting happen in less anonymous systems ?
Chances are, the person you’re trading with in the less anonymous system is someone you’ll never run into again. So you’d still be buying from the guy with the better price. But only if you know about the better price.
Which gives me one answer: The less anonymous systems make it harder to find out about the lower price. Hiding the existence of better deals is a disadvantage of other systems, since it makes players more vulnerable to market manipulation, scams, etc.
This means that undercutting is not a disadvantage of the trading post. It’s a symptom of the trading post providing more information about the price everybody is asking for.
So if you want to convince me undercutting is bad, you’re going to need at least one of the following:
– An explanation why giving more information to everybody is a bad thing.
– A hole in my logic above.
– A different reason why undercutting isn’t as bad in less anonymous systems.
You know how I asked “What’s the problem with undercutting ?”. Hold off on answering that until you’ve answered the following: Why doesn’t undercutting happen in less anonymous systems ?
It happens less because there’s no need for it.
Of course, it’s not just the anonymity. Adding seller names to the TP wouldn’t do much at all. However, if you were not given a straight-up cheapest option, but you rather had to go look for it, such as in the case of player shops, the change is apparent. What happens is that the merchants start making a name for themselves: By being consistently low price and offering desirable goods, you get a reputation. That turns into regular “customers”, people who come straight to your shop, regardless of the price.
And in a setting like that, undercutting is unnecessary effort that only makes you look bad, which in turn costs you customers.
So if you want to convince me undercutting is bad, you’re going to need at least one of the following:
– An explanation why giving more information to everybody is a bad thing.
– A hole in my logic above.
– A different reason why undercutting isn’t as bad in less anonymous systems.
Well let’s see. Firstly, you’re not actually giving more information. You’re just making it easier to access. You are however, taking away the information about the sellers. Secondly, you stated that you’re unlikely to trade with the same people again in a less anonymous system: I spent the past 2 years trading in a system like that and I experienced the opposite: I had regular customers, ranging from people whom read my posts on a forum to members of guilds I had been in to complete strangers. And how do I know they were regular customers? They talked to me. They asked me about the prices and my stock.
I am not saying that undercutting is a completely evil thing. In fact, undercutting promotes stability and often makes it impossible for a single person to take advantage of a market shortage. Both of these are good things.
However, undercutting in a system where the price is everything results in ridiculous competition for the lowest price. This is obvious when you look at how many items in the Trading Post are priced at 0-1 copper over the vendoring value.
Trading system:
Pros:
- Easy to trade with people you want
Cons:
- Map chat spam
- People trying to scam better deals
- Increase of prices in TP
- Increase of gem prices
Asking for a Trade system is basically allowing people to run around the TP system and the 15% tax which is a gold sink to keep the economy in check. Causing prices to increase for everything including gems. If your trading with a friend its actually more usefull to just mail the stuff to him.
Of course, it’s not just the anonymity. Adding seller names to the TP wouldn’t do much at all. However, if you were not given a straight-up cheapest option, but you rather had to go look for it, such as in the case of player shops,
I’m going to stop reading your example right here, as player shops are the worst trading system I’ve seen:
– They give an advantage to whichever shops get the first spots.
– As the number of shops increases, the time it takes to find the shops selling what you’re after at any price goes up. Unless you add a search function, but that destroys the distinction between shops.
– The most accurate name for most stores is “my miscellaneous stuff”, because most people are just selling the random stuff they’ve picked up. Now, whichever game you player might give incentives to specialize your store, but GW2 doesn’t.
If you want to give an example, use a system that treats everyone fairly and scales well as the game population increases.
Now that I think about it, how many games have a trading system that comes close to the number of players that the trading post handles ?
WoW has more total players. But the auction house is server specific, meaning it handles a lot fewer players.
Eve Online has the largest number of people on a single server. But that is still way less players than GW2 has, the in-game location of each sale matters (reducing the number of players than any specific regions market handles) and the GW2 trading post is a pretty obvious copy of the Eve Online markets.
Whoever is in third place is going to have way less players on each server than Eve Online does.
And in a setting like that, undercutting is unnecessary effort that only makes you look bad, which in turn costs you customers.
How does offering a lower price make you look bad to your customers ?
Well let’s see. Firstly, you’re not actually giving more information. You’re just making it easier to access.
For most players, making it easier to access is the same as giving the same information, because they don’t want to spend the time necessary to find it.
You are however, taking away the information about the sellers.
I can only think of one reason why I ever would care about who is selling the information: When the game make it hard to find people supplying something I need regularly. Then I’ll make a note of who supplies it, just so I can get it quicker.
But that won’t happen with the trading post, as it only takes a few seconds to list the best prices. So there is no advantage to me of sticking with the same supplier. Since there is no advantage to sticking to a single supplier, why should I care about the sellers name ?
Secondly, you stated that you’re unlikely to trade with the same people again in a less anonymous system: I spent the past 2 years trading in a system like that and I experienced the opposite:
What barriers to entry did that game put in the way of your competitors ?
I am not saying that undercutting is a completely evil thing. In fact, undercutting promotes stability and often makes it impossible for a single person to take advantage of a market shortage. Both of these are good things.
Good.
However, undercutting in a system where the price is everything results in ridiculous competition for the lowest price. This is obvious when you look at how many items in the Trading Post are priced at 0-1 copper over the vendoring value.
I don’t see that as an obvious problem. What I see is you looking at the price of vendor trash, then trying to say that since it’s not worth selling, there is a problem with the entire economy.
If there are any problems there, it’s that the supply of vendor trash greatly exceeds the demand, some players are stupid, and ANET is hiding the TP fees.
The trading post makes it easy to list vendor trash, so it becomes worthwhile to list an item even if it will only get them a single copper above vendor price. Sure, it may take months to sell, but it only took a few seconds of their time.
Tell me, what happens to vendor trash in other games ?
It gets sold to NPCs for a fixed price because it isn’t worth selling. Why should I expect it to have a price at anything other than rock bottom ?
Now we get into the stupidity/hidden info, which makes people think that selling an item for 1c above vendor will give them more than vendoring because they don’t understand how the trading post fees work. Nothing can be done against the stupidity, but hiding the TP fees is something ANET needs to work on.
They don’t hide the fees. If you look at the sell on the trading post it tells you projected profit. That takes away the initial fee and the % fee after being sold. It isn’t hidden.