Guild Wars 2

We need to talk. There are no two-ways about this. This trait system looks like something designed at the last minute, and it has plagued the entirety of the game and is largely responsible for the berserker-required META we’re all used to seeing/complaining about.

I’ve started a thread on the subreddit here; http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1o3sz2/calling_attention_to_bunk_traits/

I’ve got my own idea for how to re-work the trait system, but pretty much anything other than what we have at this point is good. Links for information on my concept below.

Description of the idea; https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8pOlN5QiiHTb043aEhPck9nLWs/edit?usp=sharing
Picture of the idea; https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8pOlN5QiiHTall4V0xOSjU5SFE/edit?usp=sharing

+1. I definitely like your idea, but I do have a concern, and I’m sure ANet would be concerned, as well.

If players are given this much customization when it comes to builds, balance is going to be a massive pain. I’m not saying it’s not doable, but ANet can’t even seem to balance the traits as they exist now, for example, there are traits that are absolute musts for some classes/specs, and there are some traits that have never been taken in the history of ever (I’m looking at you, Zeal line). If ANet adopts some sort of system like this, balance could become a bigger issue than it already is. Then again, all they would need to do is make some of those “must” traits not so appealing, and grant some appeal to the other traits (Kindled Zeal: 10% of power becomes Condition Damage for a class that has zero access to bleeding? As a grandmaster? Really?)

Answering here as well, free bump and all.

I get what you’re saying, they basically screwed themselves (and us) over by using this current trait system. It might be hard to balance mine, I don’t doubt that it’s not perfect, it probably isn’t. What it does do that the current model doesn’t though, is allow balance the power between individual traits as they are, while allowing customization.
I think a lot of the reason ANet has trouble with traits now is because they have this hodge-podge system that tries to balance trait effects with the stat lines they belong to, which doesn’t work out when traits are completely mis-matched to the wrong tree, or are too niche to be of use to anyone who has other goals in each tree. Providing a more open framework, such as unhinging stats from powerful traits from weak traits allows them to work on the customization in a modular format, instead of a complete/ambiguous package.

I like your idea, even whitout thinking about its pros & cons its still better than the anet trait system. Tho its too bad but anet wont chgange it since its a core element of the allready made game, they wont risk such drastic change at this stage.

Cold Hearted Person.6154:

I like your idea, even whitout thinking about its pros & cons its still better than the anet trait system. Tho its too bad but anet wont chgange it since its a core element of the allready made game, they wont risk such drastic change at this stage.

This is an mmo, changes will be made.

Look at WoW, they changed their talent system a lot (every expansion after TBC) to get where they are now.

They even introduced the glyphs system and overhauled that completely as well.

At any rate, I’d much prefer the ideas posted in this topic above the boring implementation Anet uses. The current traits remind me of the no-fun but required talents from WoW vanilla/TBC.

Traits should have a bigger impact on playstyles and should be more fun than just some lame CD reduction or straight +dmg.

And like the OP suggests, it is pretty lame that certain traits are

Ok, so looking at numbers exclusively you have twice as many minor traits and one less major trait plus three special major traits so actually plus two major traits. So the question is how, in your system, do you gain access to/unlock traits? Currently you unlock them every five points, but if you did that with this system you would come out with far fewer major traits available to you and could definitely not fill out both rings. Are you even intended to fill out both rings?

Also when do you gain access to the special traits in the three rings?

Yep, I think the talent system is one of the WORST i have seen. It is truly awful, very unbalanced and full of useless, bugged and broken traits.

They should take a look at Rift Talent system, the game might have died but that talent system was AMAZING.

THAT is how you make it so that a class can be anything. Unlike this game where some classes are FORCED into certain roles – Then again how many of the players in this game play anything other than Zerker or Bunker?

The whole system needs to be totally redesigned. They should make it like Rifts in terms of that ANY class can play ANY role – You have Thieves that can heal, You have Rangers that can tank, You have range Tanks as well. It was what made the game amazing for me.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Yep, I think the talent system is one of the WORST i have seen. It is truly awful, very unbalanced and full of useless, bugged and broken traits.

They should take a look at Rift Talent system, the game might have died but that talent system was AMAZING.

THAT is how you make it so that a class can be anything. Unlike this game where some classes are FORCED into certain roles – Then again how many of the players in this game play anything other than Zerker or Bunker?

The whole system needs to be totally redesigned. They should make it like Rifts in terms of that ANY class can play ANY role – You have Thieves that can heal, You have Rangers that can tank, You have range Tanks as well. It was what made the game amazing for me.

First off, this game isn’t intended to be tank heal dps. Those aren’t the roles. It’s supposed to be DPS, Support, Control. In that regard every class can fill every role, it’s just that two of them are pointless because of how the game actually works.

That said, Rangers make amazing tanks.

Kal Spiro.9745:

First off, this game isn’t intended to be tank heal dps. Those aren’t the roles. It’s supposed to be DPS, Support, Control. In that regard every class can fill every role, it’s just that two of them are pointless because of how the game actually works.

That said, Rangers make amazing tanks.

I accept that this game has no healer. It DOES have Tank build and it DOES have dps builds. Shame you are wrong about your second point (imo) not every class can fill every roll in this game.

What classes can Bunker?
What Classes Can support?
What classes can Control?

NONE of them are all 8. Bunker is what Engineer, Ele and Guardian. Support depending on the type COULD be all 8 BUT none will be balanced and will have several that are miles better than the rest. Control same as Support, could be all but none balanced to where they are equal/even.

It is all when and good making it so the game has no “healing” role, except it DOES They are called Engi and Ele, even Guardian to a point. Its just none of the rest can be considered “healing” specs as they are no where near strong enough to compete.

Though of course Rift NEEDED all Roles (Tank, Healer, DPS) so rather than stick to the same old they decided to make it so that people could play the build they wanted and how they wanted.

Guild Wars 2 is very different in that it doesnt “need” tanks and that it doesnt have “healers” though it actually has them in some of the Ele, Engi and Guardian builds Removing the trinity i think was the biggest mistake they made.

That made balancing VERY hard. They could have gone with the route that EVERY class could heal if traited right – just like how EVERY class should be able to Tank and how EVERY class should be able to Support* and Control*

• Some classes can do these already, though again not all balanced and some can only do certain types such as small group offensive support and some defensive support.

Bunker isn’t a role. Just because you can spec for this play style doesn’t make it a role. Healing and Tanking are both part of support. Every class has the ability to be specced for support, dps and control. This is a fact. The problem is that neither support nor control are good for anything and so aren’t worth it.

I support the idea. The current trait system just doesn’t feel right. It’s boring and bugged.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Bunker isn’t a role. Just because you can spec for this play style doesn’t make it a role. Healing and Tanking are both part of support. Every class has the ability to be specced for support, dps and control. This is a fact. The problem is that neither support nor control are good for anything and so aren’t worth it.

Bunker is pretty much the same as Tank. In terms of other MMO games Tank is pretty much a bunker, take low damage and have high survivability while doing a little damage. The biggest problem is that certain support builds are FAR superior than support builds of other classes, same goes for healing builds and control builds. The only build that is really constant across all the classes is DPS and even then some classes are far superior at it.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Bunker isn’t a role. Just because you can spec for this play style doesn’t make it a role. Healing and Tanking are both part of support. Every class has the ability to be specced for support, dps and control. This is a fact. The problem is that neither support nor control are good for anything and so aren’t worth it.

Bunker is pretty much the same as Tank. In terms of other MMO games Tank is pretty much a bunker, take low damage and have high survivability while doing a little damage. The biggest problem is that certain support builds are FAR superior than support builds of other classes, same goes for healing builds and control builds. The only build that is really constant across all the classes is DPS and even then some classes are far superior at it.

Except that the ROLE of the tank in the trinity is aggro holding ie CC.

Lostwingman.5034:

Except that the ROLE of the tank in the trinity is aggro holding ie CC.

the same role they CAN do here, of course its harder but they are made to take damage which both can do. I still think that removing the trinity has done more harm than good. They could have just made it so that all classes could perform a healing role and not made it so that its just Ele, Engi and Guardian (again to an extent)

+1

I like the idea of being able to pick and choose Adept, Master, and Grandmaster traits independently of stat lines, or even one another.

The current trait layout often has mixed up and misplaced traits. For example, a Warrior who wants to pick up Longbow traits has to spec into Tactics, which has Vitality, and Boon Duration. How do either of those two stats relate to Longbow?!? And Warriors Rifle trait is in the prec/condi-damage tree even though the rifle is primarily a power/condi-duration based weapon… it’s much better suited for the power/condi-duration tree.

And that’s far from the only example. It’s a big clustermuck.

I’d love to see something like this implemented. Looks really interesting.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Bunker isn’t a role. Just because you can spec for this play style doesn’t make it a role. Healing and Tanking are both part of support. Every class has the ability to be specced for support, dps and control. This is a fact. The problem is that neither support nor control are good for anything and so aren’t worth it.

Bunker is pretty much the same as Tank. In terms of other MMO games Tank is pretty much a bunker, take low damage and have high survivability while doing a little damage. The biggest problem is that certain support builds are FAR superior than support builds of other classes, same goes for healing builds and control builds. The only build that is really constant across all the classes is DPS and even then some classes are far superior at it.

You’re still failing to understand. Tank is Support or Control. Healing is Support. Therefore if a class can build well as a bunker they are building to Support. If a class can build well to healing they are building to Support.

DPS, Support, Control. Every class can spec to each of these. Are they all the same? No, of course not, and they shouldn’t be. They should play these roles different and have different strengths and weaknesses within how they build to these roles.

Ultimately, though, it still doesn’t matter because Support and Control are trash and DPS is king.

+1 for trait redesign.

Nowhere is the trait system as flawed as it is for Elemantalists. They are arguably the worst class in the game. The attunement system is further stiffled by traits. If your lucky you’ll have 2 strong attunements. Lets face it, they basically force you into earth and fire.

earth- beacuse you need more survivability due to the lackluster damage.

fire- because you need damage to increase your survivability.

Traits are made further useless by the fact that you can’t even weapon swap.

Kal Spiro.9745:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Bunker isn’t a role. Just because you can spec for this play style doesn’t make it a role. Healing and Tanking are both part of support. Every class has the ability to be specced for support, dps and control. This is a fact. The problem is that neither support nor control are good for anything and so aren’t worth it.

Bunker is pretty much the same as Tank. In terms of other MMO games Tank is pretty much a bunker, take low damage and have high survivability while doing a little damage. The biggest problem is that certain support builds are FAR superior than support builds of other classes, same goes for healing builds and control builds. The only build that is really constant across all the classes is DPS and even then some classes are far superior at it.

You’re still failing to understand. Tank is Support or Control. Healing is Support. Therefore if a class can build well as a bunker they are building to Support. If a class can build well to healing they are building to Support.

DPS, Support, Control. Every class can spec to each of these. Are they all the same? No, of course not, and they shouldn’t be. They should play these roles different and have different strengths and weaknesses within how they build to these roles.

Ultimately, though, it still doesn’t matter because Support and Control are trash and DPS is king.

I take a little issue with what you said. Heavy and medium armor classes have pretty heavy DPS, plus they can bunker/tank.. On the other hand, light armor classes (especially E) don’t have the damage output to justify light armor.

My point is every class can’t tank while every class can DPS alomost at par. It doesn’t make a ton of sense.

SHM.7628:

Kal Spiro.9745:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Bunker isn’t a role. Just because you can spec for this play style doesn’t make it a role. Healing and Tanking are both part of support. Every class has the ability to be specced for support, dps and control. This is a fact. The problem is that neither support nor control are good for anything and so aren’t worth it.

Bunker is pretty much the same as Tank. In terms of other MMO games Tank is pretty much a bunker, take low damage and have high survivability while doing a little damage. The biggest problem is that certain support builds are FAR superior than support builds of other classes, same goes for healing builds and control builds. The only build that is really constant across all the classes is DPS and even then some classes are far superior at it.

You’re still failing to understand. Tank is Support or Control. Healing is Support. Therefore if a class can build well as a bunker they are building to Support. If a class can build well to healing they are building to Support.

DPS, Support, Control. Every class can spec to each of these. Are they all the same? No, of course not, and they shouldn’t be. They should play these roles different and have different strengths and weaknesses within how they build to these roles.

Ultimately, though, it still doesn’t matter because Support and Control are trash and DPS is king.

I take a little issue with what you said. Heavy and medium armor classes have pretty heavy DPS, plus they can bunker/tank.. On the other hand, light armor classes (especially E) don’t have the damage output to justify light armor.

My point is every class can’t tank while every class can DPS alomost at par. It doesn’t make a ton of sense.

Bunker is not a role. How is this not sinking in. Therefore any classes ability to bunker or not to bunker is meaningless in this debate.

Kal Spiro.9745:

You’re still failing to understand. Tank is Support or Control. Healing is Support. Therefore if a class can build well as a bunker they are building to Support. If a class can build well to healing they are building to Support.

DPS, Support, Control. Every class can spec to each of these. Are they all the same? No, of course not, and they shouldn’t be. They should play these roles different and have different strengths and weaknesses within how they build to these roles.

Ultimately, though, it still doesn’t matter because Support and Control are trash and DPS is king.

What i mean is, That only Engi, Ele and Guardian can go bunker. Can a Mesmer? Can a Thief? that is the biggest problem. If you are wanting to play a specific style ie – Healing, “Bunker” then you have to choose a specific class in order to do that.

Healing can be just as offensive, for exmaple in Rift the Cleric (kinda like a guardian) could go the route of an offensive healer in that they would heal allies every time they attack and and such would gain skills that would help them. The same class could go full dps if they wanted, they could go full tank. So many options – the opposite of Guild Wars 2.

Kal Spiro.9745:

SHM.7628:

Kal Spiro.9745:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Bunker isn’t a role. Just because you can spec for this play style doesn’t make it a role. Healing and Tanking are both part of support. Every class has the ability to be specced for support, dps and control. This is a fact. The problem is that neither support nor control are good for anything and so aren’t worth it.

Bunker is pretty much the same as Tank. In terms of other MMO games Tank is pretty much a bunker, take low damage and have high survivability while doing a little damage. The biggest problem is that certain support builds are FAR superior than support builds of other classes, same goes for healing builds and control builds. The only build that is really constant across all the classes is DPS and even then some classes are far superior at it.

You’re still failing to understand. Tank is Support or Control. Healing is Support. Therefore if a class can build well as a bunker they are building to Support. If a class can build well to healing they are building to Support.

DPS, Support, Control. Every class can spec to each of these. Are they all the same? No, of course not, and they shouldn’t be. They should play these roles different and have different strengths and weaknesses within how they build to these roles.

Ultimately, though, it still doesn’t matter because Support and Control are trash and DPS is king.

I take a little issue with what you said. Heavy and medium armor classes have pretty heavy DPS, plus they can bunker/tank.. On the other hand, light armor classes (especially E) don’t have the damage output to justify light armor.

My point is every class can’t tank while every class can DPS alomost at par. It doesn’t make a ton of sense.

Bunker is not a role. How is this not sinking in. Therefore any classes ability to bunker or not to bunker is meaningless in this debate.

I disagree that bunker is not a role. Perhaps by default but melee serve as bunkers. There’d be a lof of the light armor classes that would be unplayable in harder settings.

SHM.7628:

Kal Spiro.9745:

SHM.7628:

Kal Spiro.9745:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Bunker isn’t a role. Just because you can spec for this play style doesn’t make it a role. Healing and Tanking are both part of support. Every class has the ability to be specced for support, dps and control. This is a fact. The problem is that neither support nor control are good for anything and so aren’t worth it.

Bunker is pretty much the same as Tank. In terms of other MMO games Tank is pretty much a bunker, take low damage and have high survivability while doing a little damage. The biggest problem is that certain support builds are FAR superior than support builds of other classes, same goes for healing builds and control builds. The only build that is really constant across all the classes is DPS and even then some classes are far superior at it.

You’re still failing to understand. Tank is Support or Control. Healing is Support. Therefore if a class can build well as a bunker they are building to Support. If a class can build well to healing they are building to Support.

DPS, Support, Control. Every class can spec to each of these. Are they all the same? No, of course not, and they shouldn’t be. They should play these roles different and have different strengths and weaknesses within how they build to these roles.

Ultimately, though, it still doesn’t matter because Support and Control are trash and DPS is king.

I take a little issue with what you said. Heavy and medium armor classes have pretty heavy DPS, plus they can bunker/tank.. On the other hand, light armor classes (especially E) don’t have the damage output to justify light armor.

My point is every class can’t tank while every class can DPS alomost at par. It doesn’t make a ton of sense.

Bunker is not a role. How is this not sinking in. Therefore any classes ability to bunker or not to bunker is meaningless in this debate.

I disagree that bunker is not a role. Perhaps by default but melee serve as bunkers. There’d be a lof of the light armor classes that would be unplayable in harder settings.

You can disagree all you want, but that just proves you don’t know anything about the development of the game, nor the intentions of the devs. This was never intended to be Tank, Heal, DPS where Bunker would be the definition of Tank.

This game is a different trinity. DPS, Support and Control. Bunker is a subset of Support. Support is the role which contains boons, condition eating, bunker, healing. Anything that isn’t directly damaging the enemy or stopping/slowing them down. Bunker in and of itself is not a role, therefore it doesn’t matter what classes are good at it because the other classes are good at something else within the Support role that is actually a role.

Kal Spiro.9745:

You can disagree all you want, but that just proves you don’t know anything about the development of the game, nor the intentions of the devs. This was never intended to be Tank, Heal, DPS where Bunker would be the definition of Tank.

This game is a different trinity. DPS, Support and Control. Bunker is a subset of Support. Support is the role which contains boons, condition eating, bunker, healing. Anything that isn’t directly damaging the enemy or stopping/slowing them down. Bunker in and of itself is not a role, therefore it doesn’t matter what classes are good at it because the other classes are good at something else within the Support role that is actually a role.

dps builds contain boons, condition eating, healing and “bunker” – just not to the same extent and that is countered by all the damage. It doesnt matter how the dev WANTED the game to go.

They HAVE tank builds, they HAVE healing builds – they are just limited to select classes. You say they are not tank – in what form are they not tanks?

They take damage – so does a tank
They have high survivability – so does a tank

Pretty much the only thing they dont have is “Aggro holding skills” which doesnt mean they are not a tank, they CAN pick up aggro is several other ways. So in your terms how are they not the same as a tank?

A build isn’t a role. I’m sorry that this seems to be too difficult to grasp but there it is.

You are right though. What they wanted isn’t important because they only got one role. DPS is the only role in GW2. A role is defined by what you need to bring to complex group content. Effectively what you need in dungeons. There is only one thing you need in dungeons and that’s DPS, therefore there is only one role. You were supposed to need Control and Support, as opposed to Tanking and Healing, but they broke the game before that became a reality and so they never got it.

+1 on trait redesign

+1 on trait redesign, or removing them completely and instead having gear determine builds, or replace the trait/skill system with the GW1 system, or anything that isn;t the current trait system

With respect of course…

I love your ideas. I would like to see them implemented.

Thanks for all the support on my ideas I normally don’t get much so its really nice!

As far as some of the questions about my proposed concept, I’ll see if I can come up with some answers.

1) “You have less major traits than the current implementation, and less minors as well”?

A. This is true. Currently we are given little kicker-bonuses for putting a certain number of points in the tree. These don’t always provide an actual use to the character who gets them, so I feel they are an unnecessary burden. However, keep in mind that the traits we have in game now are not the ones I would suggest be used with my concept.

A lot of the ones we have now are complete crap. Linking back to one of my old blog posts; http://lorechiefgw2.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-reckoning-of-boring-traits.html – I have a google docs in there with a list of all the traits I would cull from our pools first. All the traits should be interesting, if not – they need to be combined with other traits that ARE interesting. In my implementation, you would be able to feel that your opponent has specced a certain way just by the way they fight and things that happen as a result.

2) “How do you unlock these traits?”

A. Simply put, you do it the same way you would now. I see nothing wrong in gating trait access based on the level of the character. I would suggest the following:

• Major traits alternate between weapon/spell as you level. You get one every 10 levels, with the “Class Mechanic Bonus” being unlocked first at level 10, and again at level 40.
• Special Selected Bonus (See: Stat pool) is unlocked from level 5. I would like to think this would make new players in WvW less squishable right off the get-go as well, depending on how they choose their bonus.
• Minor traits would be unlocked at level gates too, but I don’t want to do the math right now to figure out how often that would happen!

3A) A little bit more on the SSB (Special Selected Bonus). This is interchangeable outside of combat the same way traits are, except you’ll have to wait 30 seconds before it activates. There are some SSB’s that people might be tempted to switch to the second they get out of combat (such as the passive movement speed), and I wouldn’t want to see it abused for something petty like that. So yeah, 30 seconds after you swap it – then it becomes active. You could probably have something like a cooldown timer on your buff bar that says “Time til SSB active..” or something.

Thanks again for all the support everyone!
-LoreChief

I don’t see a value in a delay. If someone wants to have intended in combat SSB and out of combat SSB that seems perfectly acceptable. As long as it can’t be changed while in combat. This means if they mess up and get into combat before swapping back they’re stuck with it. Happens all the time with skills of the same nature.

I’m also for a redesign of the trait system, but in a different way.
Stat Imrovement should be made completely in the classic way, that every character receives with every Level Up a specific amount of Stat points, which the player can set up then to the attributes as he likes as also a specific pregiven bonus increases in the maximum Health and attributes thats for each class type different.
First off, Anet should SPLIT the Trait System up.

1. The Talent System
2. The Ability System
3. The Trait System

Talents are things, that are class specific, special powers that every class is BORN WITH.
Talents are needed to improve class specific mechanics, liek for example a Thiefs Initative System, a Thiefs Steal Mechanic ect.
Talents are also what a class improves to progress and specialize themself into more advanced SUB CLASSES, like that a Thief could specialize into his Stealing Talents to become a ROGUE, or could specialize into his Stealth Talents to become an INFILTRATOR and so on …

Abilities
This are direct improvements and changes to our weapon skills.
If you use a certain ability for a specific weapon , then it will improve and change everything that has to do with using that kind of weapon in combat.
Very simple concept, think of abilities, like the system of Diablo 3
You have a huge pool of abilities you can choose from, but you are only allowed to put maximum say 5 of these per erquipped weapon towards what for abilities you want to use, when using that specific weapon.

Traits
Traits are passive effects and attribute boosters (when combined with using specific weapons in combat) as alos additive or changing effects for Utility Skills, Healing Skilsl as also Elite Skills. Here you would find the typical stuff, like decreased skill recharges for weapon X or that you get + xx vitality, when using a Shield while Shield Skill X is active and so on …

SO how do these 3 distinct systems work together??

Each Class has certain BASIC TALENTS.
Basic Talents are something, that every class learns automatically over the course of the game and improves those basic talents, by using the specific talents more and more oftenly. So more often you use your talents, so quicker do these basic talents improve over time.
Means, so more often you steal as a thief for example, so better becomes the thief in stealing over time and learns more new talents to that… and receives talents like becoming able to steal more items, than just 1, or receivves healings when stealing, or damages enemies when stealing – you see what I’m doing here?
Then there are Advanced Talents. These are talents that a class learns automatically every 5 Levels. So each class has basically with Max Level 80 so far then 16 Advanced Talents. Advanced Talents are more specialized towards certain class mechanics that a player has to master for their charaters to unlock for them the feature to change into specific Sub Classes.
The next step would be Master Talents followed by Grand Master Talents
Master Talents are earned, when a character has fully maximised one Basic Talent, because when you become perfect in the basics, then you can call yourself a Master in that.
Have you learned and mastered the Master Talents, then your character has to go on a journey to search for a certain amount of Master NPC’s, that can be found just everywhere around Tyria. These Masters have to be fought against in duels (instances)
Have you beaten all of the Masters of Tyria, then you become a Grand Master and you unlock the specific Grand Master Talent.
—-
Abilities are unlocked as a reward, not like traits currently with 1 point per level up.
Each new ability would a character learn as a kind of reward for doing either a Heart Quest, activating a Skill Point, viewing a Vista or for beating a specific Champion/Legendary Boss.
—-
Traits would be still that, what a character gains per Level Up. 1 Trait Point per level up from Level 1 already onward. So maximum 80 Trait Points that a player could put into the passive trait lines.

With splitting up the trait system into the T.A.T-System, we would have alot more character progression in the game and we would feel like that our characters can also still progress somehow further, even if they have reached already Max Level.

As much as i don’t like current system, i believe your proposition does not solve the problem. And the problem is, that the developers moved from successful GW1 formula “passives affect skills, skills affect battlefield” to a more mainstream version “give the players a bunch of passives to play with”.
Why not go back to a good thing? Separate all skills of a certain class(even weapon skills) into 5 separate groups and make 7 tiers of each skill and each subsequent tier is unlocked when you invest 5 points into respective trait group. Then move all “random stuff that happens passively” to sigils and runes. Skill example : Ranger shortbow skill Crippling shot(school: wilderness survival) cooldown 14/13/12/11/10/9/8, Cripple 2, 2.5, 3, 3.5, 4, kitten etc. Damage: fixed.
This will fix the problems with current trait system and please old GW1 fans. Win-win i suppose.

Example for Talents of a Thief:

Basic Talents

• Thievery
• Infiltration
• Improvisation
• Flee
• Venom Creation
• Acrobatics
• Deathly Arts
• Shadow Arts
  
  Each of these Basic Talents has 2 Advanced Talents, which basically unlock every 5 Levels, if the player has made enough experience with the Basic Talent.
  Each Basic Talent has 10 Levels of Experience Grade lettign the basic talents evolve becoming better with each level.

For Thievery it could look then like this:

Level 1: Steals 1 Item, Range 900, Recharge 40 Seconds
Level 2: Steals 1 Item, Range 950, Recharge 38 Seconds
Level 3: Steals 1 Item, Range 1000, Recharge 35 Seconds
Level 4: Can Steal now max 2 Items, Cures now 1 Condition and breaks Stuns
Level 5: Steals 2 Items, Range 1100, Recharge 33 Seconds
Level 6: Steals 2 Items, Range 1200, Recharge 30 Seconds
Level 7: Stealing damages now also the enemy and max 3 Items can be stolen.
Level 8: Steals 3 Items, Range 1300, Recharge 28 Seconds
Level 9: Steals 3 Items, Range 1400, Recharge 25 Seconds
Level 10: Steals 3 Items, Range 1500, Stealing Heals the Thief now

Advanced Talent – Thieving Magpie
Increases the damage and heals done to enemies/received by Steals by 25%
Steals blind and makes the enemy vulnerable now with 5 longlasting Stacks.

Advanced Talent – Confusing Shades
The victim of the Steal will suffer for every stolen item on 1 Stack of Confusion and Weakness now too. The Thief will perform with Steals now a quick double Shadow Step to the enemy and instantly back to its old position leaving at the instant retreat in front of the enemy a smokebomb that will create a smoke wall that blocks of projetile attacks.
—-

Infiltration

Level 1 – 1 second longer Stealths and your movement under Stealth is 10% faster
Level 2 – 2 seconds longer Stealths and your movement uder Stealth is 15% faster
Level 3 – 3 seconds longer Stealths and your movement under Stealth is 20% faster
Level 4 – You gain Regeneration and Vigor under Stealth now
Level 5 – 5 seconds longer Stealths and your movement under Stealth is 33% faster
Level 6 – Conditions on you last 20% shorter, while in Stealth and you gain Protection for 5 seconds
Level 7 – 7 seconds longer Stealths and your next Attack out of Stealth is 100% critical.
Level 8 – You can read the Enemy Chat now while in Stealth, Stealths last 8 seconds longer and movements under Stealth are 50% faster
Level 9 – Stealths last 10 seconds longer and Stealth Skills recharge 20% faster.
Level 10 – You gain 1 additional Initiative under Stealth back every 3 seconds and the maximum Initiative is increased by + 3

Advanced Talent – Espionage Professional
Adds a chance of 20% that you will evade incoming damage from AoE, while in Stealth.

Advanced Talent – Deathly Trapper
Traps layed out while in Stealth will deal +200% damage and will deal 100% critical hits as also recharge 20% faster

Just 2 examples for mastered Basic Talents with their Advanced Talents.
As said, addign to that there would exist for the Basic talents then also 1 Master Talent, that unlocks, once you reach with the Basic Talent Level 10 and a Grand Master Talent, that you could earn, once you’ve mastered the Master Talent and beaten multiple Master NPCs in the Basics all over Tyria.

How traits are now yes they are pretty much “kitten”. They could have done it much much better. Instead of small buffs to your character they could have done it so traits affect and change your skills.

Orpheal.8263:

Example for Talents of a Thief:

Basic Talents

• Thievery
• Infiltration
• Improvisation
• Flee
• Venom Creation
• Acrobatics
• Deathly Arts
• Shadow Arts
  
  Each of these Basic Talents has 2 Advanced Talents, which basically unlock every 5 Levels, if the has made enough experience with the Basic Talent.
  Each Basic Talent has 10 Levels of Experience Grade lettign the basic talents evolve becoming better with each level.

For Thievery it could look then like this:

Level 1: Steals 1 Item, Range 900, Recharge 40 Seconds
Level 2: Steals 1 Item, Range 950, Recharge 38 Seconds
Level 3: Steals 1 Item, Range 1000, Recharge 35 Seconds
Level 4: Can Steal now max 2 Items, Cures now 1 Condition and breaks Stuns
Level 5: Steals 2 Items, Range 1100, Recharge 33 Seconds
Level 6: Steals 2 Items, Range 1200, Recharge 30 Seconds
Level 7: Stealing damages now also the enemy and max 3 Items can be stolen.
Level 8: Steals 3 Items, Range 1300, Recharge 28 Seconds
Level 9: Steals 3 Items, Range 1400, Recharge 25 Seconds
Level 10: Steals 3 Items, Range 1500, Stealing Heals the Thief now

Advanced Talent – Thieving Magpie
Increases the damage and heals done to enemies/received by Steals by 25% and steals Steals blind and makes the enemy vulnerable now with 5 longlasting Stacks.

Advanced Talent – Confusing Shades
The victim of the Steal will suffer for every stolen item on 1 Stack of Confusion and Weakness now too. The Thief will perform with Steals now a quick double Shadow Step to the enemy and instantly back to its old position leaving at the instant retreat in front of the enemy a smokebomb that will create a smoke wall that blocks of projetile attacks.
—-

Infiltration

Level 1 – 1 second longer Stealths and your movement under Stealth is 10% faster
Level 2 – 2 seconds longer Stealths and your movement uder Stealth is 15% faster
Level 3 – 3 seconds longer Stealths and your movement under Stealth is 20% faster
Level 4 – You gain Regeneration and Vigor under Stealth now
Level 5 – 5 seconds longer Stealths and your movement under Stealth is 33% faster
Level 6 – Conditions on you last 20% shorter, while in Stealth and you gain Protection for 5 seconds
Level 7 – 7 seconds longer Stealths and your next Attack out of Stealth is 100% critical.
Level 8 – You can read the Enemy Chat now while in Stealth, Stealths last 8 seconds longer and movements under Stealth are 50% faster
Level 9 – Stealths last 10 seconds longer and Stealth Skills recharge 20% faster.
Level 10 – You gain 1 additional Initiative under Stealth back every 3 seconds and the maximum Initiative is increased by + 3

Advanced Talent – Espionage Professional
Adds a chance of 20% that you will evade incoming damage from AoE, while in Stealth.

Advanced Talent – Deathly Trapper
Traps layed out while in Stealth will deal +200% damage and will deal 100% critical hits as also recharge 20% faster

Just 2 examples for mastered Basic Talents with their Advanced Talents.
As said, addign to that there would exist for the Basic talents then also 1 Master Talent, that unlocks, once you reach with the Basic Talent Level 10 and a Grand Master Talent, that you could earn, once you’ve mastered the Master Talent and beaten multiple Master NPCs in the Basics all over Tyria.

Most of them would be SO insanely overpowered. I get the idea but those traits would be WAY over powered

I liked Guild Wars 1, where you could mix classes skills that was SO good. It would be GREAT if they could do that here, not weapon skills but for Utilities and Elite. SO that you could unlock 1 or 2 other classes Utilities and Elites

For Example:

Mesmer Combined with Ranger and Engineer.

You could Take Sic ’em Which would now buff your Phantasms and Clones and then take say Elixir X Elite from the Engineer which would would act the same way as it would for Engineer.

I just thought the way it was done with Main class and that secondary class was a great idea. Was so gutted when i heard they wouldnt be adding it to Guild Wars 2

1. This are not traits, it are Talents :P
2. Don’t forget that every other Class would also receive their own Talents ect. in the same way like I made the example here now for the Thief.

If you would also look deeper into the materia I’ve written up here, then you’d also realize, that alot of the things I’ve written here are effects, that already exists in the game and are things, of what the thief is already capable of doing so, just with having to use traits via the current silly trait system.
I just integrated certain effects of the current trait system over to my T.A.T-System concept, so that you can progress with your character and learn new things, getting better with your character, without being forced to slot any traits extra for those effects. You’d just get better with your character by collecting experience in those talents by USING the talents which is a much easer concept of character progression, than havign to use for everything up trait slots that limitate only your progression.

These effects are natural born talents that the classes should be able to have/use.
Like for example I integrated the feature of being able to deal damage to enemies and receive heals by stealing from enemies. In the current bad designed trait system you’d have to waste 2 trait slots just to be able to do these 2 effects with that 1 move.

In a game, where conditions can be removed within seconds its also no problem to add a few new conditions to a combat mechanic to make out of the Stealing a better debuff mechanic, that actually would be also quite good that way, that really “weakens” the enemy, because they lost something “basically” and are confused about that loss, how it could just only happen to them.

An increasement to Stealth Duration is just a MUST, if Anet starts now by adding to other classes hard counter skills, that can instantly reveal thiefs, otherwise they will nerf the thief with such skills only to death!! And with silly 10 seconds basically you can’t fulfill in this game the role as an infiltrator, that sneaks behind enemy lines to gather up enemy information (for WvW)
Anet has to improve the class specific roles to make them more trustworthy and whart you would just expect from such a class, what they should do in this game.

Some of these buffs are neccessary to incentivize more the usage of those skills, or do you actually see somewhere thiefs in the moment playing around with the trap utility skills ?? I see no single thief in the whole game using those trap skills, because they are way too weak. 99% of all thiefs I see do use all the same utility skills.

1. The various signets (Shadows, Agility, Assassination)
2. Shadow Refuge
3. Blinding Power/ Smokescreen
4. Scorpion Wire
5. Caltrops

That are the most useful utility currently of the thief, that get mostly used by all thiefs I see in the game, more rarely to nearly none uses Venoms and alot lesser used are Traps. So a Buffing of Traps to make them more deathly while used in Stealth I think would be a nice incentive to use more traps and see a rise as result of that in thief trapper builds that let the enemies run in their deathly traps or pull them into them with Scorpion Wire like a thief should get played out as a very stealthy Infiltrator (Advanced Sub Class over the Talents)

I find it really silly, how people always start to call out everythign first as insanely overpowered, when the discussion goes about character progression, when its absolutely clear, that all other classes would also receive changes to balance out the changes of one mentioned example.

PS

An absolute no to the return of that catastrophal dual class system.
And you are talking about imbalanced systems ???
The dual class system was from begin on in GW1 the most chaotic catastrophal imbalanced system ever made in game history!! Anet was never able to balance anythign within this system, because every most tiny change in the system always resulted instantly in countless chain reactions that created a whole bunch of new overpowered skill builds due to the countless class combinations, that Anet was never able to foresee what would happen with the game after their changes.
Thats the reason, why Anet made in first line the wise decision to return back to the classical 1 class system and thats also they reason in first line, why they so drastically reduced for GW2 the amount of skills and added to the game the weapon related skills, to make the whole game alot easier to balance, so that this balancing chaos of GW1 would NEVER ever return!

You are forgetting one thing: Not every class has the same access to condition removal. Look at Mesmer we have 2 Utilities that at standard are 40 and 45 seconds cool down, one sends THREE conditions the other you need to be in the AoE to use.

Sure it was unbalanced. So is this system. I see no problem with it. I loved the old system it meant you could be unique. Something that is simply impossible with the current one. The Rift one was great as well.

Adding on to the original Idea:

You could have a 4th circle one that adds abilities/traits/skills from a selected second class. This could be done by needing to unlock it via quests or something, Or go the FF14 route and have them unlock when you get to a certain level + meet another criteria.

This could be something like a Ladder fight system when you have completed the ladder for the class you want you unlock it for the cirle.

Once unlocked and you select your class you could pick traits or skills (Utility and Elites) An example could be the Gaining of Health and removal of conditions while in stealth could be possible for Mesmers. While Thiefs could go for Prismatic Understanding from Mesmers for boons while in Stealth – for thieves this would need say a 10second cool down due to number of stealth skills they have.

Warriors could go with adding some Guardian traits or skills as another example. You would pick classes that have traits or skills that would benefit your current build and make it that bit stronger.

Take a look at Rift – You start off with a class. EVERY class can pretty much do what ever they want. want to go Tank/Bunker on a Thief/Rogue – sure go ahead, Want to go offensive healer on a cleric – sure go ahead. The possibilities and options you had were great.

Look at the current system. who can go bunker? Ele, Engi and Guardian. Warrior getting a bit better as well THAT should not be the case. EVERY class should be able to build how they want. If i want to be a Bunker Thief for example i SHOULD be able to via traits. If i want to go Bunker on a Mesmer i SHOULD have the option.

Currently – if you want to be a “healer” then your options are VERY limited. If you want to be a Bunker then your options are VERY limited.

Thats the reason why I want to split up the the trait system into the T.A.T System with talents, abilities and traits, because with such a system we would receive exactly that versatility that you are mentioning here, that is quite in fact very lacking and way too much limitating us in our choices for class builds.

Thats why I want to improve the class roles, because I want to see, that every class can really trustworthy fullfill their roles in what you would expect the classes what they should be able to do.
Thats why I’m for increasign the stealth durations, because thats exactly the way how you would play basically a “bunker thief”.
Thiefs aren’t tanky, their whole gameplay design is based on QUICKNESS and high agility as also moveability. Thats how thiefs survive long battles, by beign able to avoid alot of damage through stealth, shadow steps and quick dodges ect. pp and other kind of special acrobatic moves, like peforming flip/spin rolls and saltos. All that kind of heroic movement stuff that you can actually see in upcoming games like Blades & Soul or Everquest Next, that really make out of a combat system a true real time based ACTION COMBAT that should feel fast paced and high on requirance of player skills/reaction skills of a player to grasp and understand the class mechanics to play the class efficiently. Thatsy why I’m saying currently are theifs slow as slugs, as the class is missing all the combat moves I’d expect from such a very acrobatic fast paced class, that should be the fastest class of all, when it comes down to movement skills!!

But oh hey, we have here silly warriors, that run around in HEAVY ARMORS, which can easily outrun with their big 2H swords a thief >.> Thats how low the game balance of GW2 in regard of logics also too has gotten sadly…

I haven’t made examples yet for the other talents and the abilities/traits, because I know that would be far too much to post here, but I’m sure, I’d be able with my concept to easily come up with something, where players would think about, that it solves the problem of the lacking in versatile builds, that it would feel for the player in the end, like playing a kind of “bunker build” as thief, that comes with a thieverish unique own playstyle and thats what is important over everything.
That every class plays out in the end different and unique.

A game, where every class can do everything and that alos in the absolute same way, IS BORING and if you want to make such a game, then you need no classes at all, then you can make directly better a game with no classes and just generic characters, where everyone could work on the exact same skill trees ect.
But is this really the thing, that you want?? I strongly believe that this is not the case.
I think of no sane person, that actually really would want such a game, where everything is just the same.

A Sub Class System is basically nearly the same like a UDal LCass System. they massively can increase the character progression, but the important difference between Dual Classes and Sub Classes is – Sub Classes are alot easier to balance, because they stay in the same frame of their main basic class, instead of mixing wildly together skills and features of every class chaotically together like it worked that way for GW1. If ANet will ever put Dual Classes back into GW2, this game will be instantly doomed to become a broken mess, that will never be balanceable anymore the moment that this crap gets into the game.
Sure, it would be some kind of fan service for the old GW1 players, but it would be absolutely not good for the whole game in overall.

Sub Classes are just way much more easier to handle and to balance within the frame of their basic main classes, and still give the player the same options of becoming more versatile, like you got that feelign in GW1 with Dual Classes, when we would be able to exchange our Sub Classes later at free will to change our builds.
This includes letting us also freely reset our attributes/traits whenever we want outside of battles like in GW1.

Giving Thief MORE stealth would be the exact OPPOSITE of what should happen. Unless the damage they do is nerfed by atleast 30% Then they should not have access to more stealth.

They could EASILY give them bunky options without increasing stealth. one option would be a increase to Toughness and Vit the longer they are not in stealth.

OR

A similar trait to Mesmer that gives them Prot, agis and such when in stealth. This would need a cool down as they have FAR to much access to it currently

They do in my opinion need – The Health, Condition Removal and Speed buffs while in stealth REMOVED or nerfed. They do not need even more mobility when they can simply spam stealth.

I think the opposite, none of these classes would do it the same way so the gameplay differences alone would mean it wouldnt be boring. what IS boring is the fact in order to be a “healer” or a bunker you HAVE to be a certain class.

That idea is very good, but the trait system also is good, needing some changes (if Anet wants this game become an E-Sport, they need grants more freedom to players create their buids).
Just divide trait slots from status, but keep with adept, master and grandmaster system.
Ex:
1 - The five line continue, but instead prefabricated status combinations (ex: Warriors Arms that grants Critical Rate and Condition Damage), the player have freedom to chooce 2 status that he wants (ex: I can put Critical Rate and Critical Damage, Condition Damage and Condition Duration, or Toughness and Vitality, at max 2 status for each line).
2 - All Minor and Major Adept, Master and Grandmaster traits can be sloted in all bars for free choice, but the actual sequence (Adept -> Master -> Grandmaster) will be maintained (ex: I can spend 10 points in firist bar, choice Toughnes and Brawn as status bonus, and choice Precise Strikes and Empowered as minor and major adepet)
Of course, to have acces to Master need first grants Adept, and to have access to Grandmaster need first grants Master. All this in one single bar

- Looks more with E-Sport idea.
- Less predictable.
- Less limited.
- Players have full access to all traits, according trait tier.
- More attractive, calls new players to game.
- And more, and more and more

It would take just as long to create a whole new trait system as it would to fix what is wrong with this one, so many useless, bugged and broken traits. They might as well start afresh and see what else they can do.

Look at WoW, how many times have they totally redesigned the trait system? As well as the Glyph system. Nothing is perfect and should they see the need (imo they should) a redesign of the talent system wouldnt be such a bad thing and that Anet failed or anything – Just means they saw room for improvement for the better of players

They do in my opinion need – The Health, Condition Removal and Speed buffs while in stealth REMOVED or nerfed. They do not need even more mobility when they can simply spam stealth.

This would absolutely nerf the thiefs to death… so just no.
You would absolutely not suggest such bad things, if you actually would ever have played a thief and fought against a warrior, which are by far the most overpowered class currently of all.
These kinds of self heal abilities are just needed for thiefs to survive anything that lasts longer than just a few seconds after landing successful critical backstabs.
Thiefs are just designwise the absolute glass cannons of GW2, when played as berserker geared characters and the stealth heal ect. are just needed to survive with their lousy like 10k HP you have then as the class with the absolute lowest base health of all and that as an adventurer class with medium armor.
Even a ranger has alot more base health and can nearly everytime fight from a safe range plus having tanking pets.

Here in GW2 is no need for stupid healers. GW2 got gladly rid of that crap, or we would have in GW2 now again like in GW1 that stupid junk of players spamming lfg’s for healers in the chat and that you would be not able to do anything in this game, if your group doesn’t consist of at least 1 healer, that is responssible to keep the group alive so that the other four people can play as stupid as possible, cause they know if they make dumb mistakes, that theres a healer that saves just their butts…

GW2 just teaches its players better player skills to play a game without needing to have dedicated healers with you permanently.
GW2 sets more importance onto Group Play and synergizing passive effects, when it comes to Support.

For what to you want to play a thief as bunke,r beign have to have huge defense and take alot of hits ect. when this is absolutely not the role of a thief and also not fittign to their very agile quick gameplay design.
Thiefs are just simply “bunky” by beign hard to hit and avoidign damage. Its the exact same thing, just delivered with a different concept behind the gameplay of tanking.

ANet just wants to keep GW2 free of the steroetypical 0815-holy trinity, stat you can just stand yourself somewhere and take unendlessly hits.
Even the most tanky classes of GW2, the warrior and the guardian, need to move and dodgne somewhen, ocne the dps pressure gets too much for them that their partwise way too powerful (at least warrior in 1v1 situations) auto health regeneration can’t keep them permanently alive

This is exactly what I meant, if you make a game, where everyone should be able to do everything, then you need no classes at all. Wherefore do you need still Warriors and Guardians, if you could just make a Thief that is same as tankerish as them, just to play with the thief a role, that doesn’t belong to their game design???

Thiefs are mainly very agile debuffers that are very effective in taking out weakened enemies, they are not tanks in the way how I understand here that you’d like to play a thief the ame way like a warrior or guardian is able to tank for a while.
ANd if Anet should ever make the thief in some way same as bunkerish, like Eles, Guardians, Engineers and so on, then it should be at least in their own unique kind of way that fits to their stealthy gameplay and not just by pimping up massively their vitality and toughness into insane heights, only so that they can take alot more hits what absolutely isn’t the credo of a thief – a thief doesn’t let hisself get hit as much as possible. Thiefs are the masters of avoiding to get hit at all and this should stay so.

The only problem currently with thief stealth in the game is, that yet there are no hard counters and their ability to easily use perma stealth through the stacking of stealth with blindign powder ect.
Woudl ANet just remove this stacking effect, would perma stealth not be possible anymore and there would be in fact also not the need anymore to give classes liek the ranger with sic em a hard counter for stealth.

But would anet just nerf that gameplay to death, alot of thief players would be just kitten ed and surely leave the game, so its just easier and better for anet to buff stealth and add to various other classes hard counters to stealth to balance that problem out, so that thief players can still have their fun with longlasting/ perma stealth playing a trustworthy kind of infiltration gameplay, and players of all the other classes would be that way happy too, because the get their way to force thiefs out of stealth if they use that ability at the right moment at the right place.

They have stealth every 4 seconds. If that isnt enough its down to them. Stealth and especially Thief spammable stealth is THE best defense in the game. The ONLY people that will say Thieves are fine are the thieves.

Damage to high, Mobility to high, To much stealth. Would decreasing the amount they heal, the number of conditions removed and the speed buff in stealth hurt them that much?

In my opinion No, they have just become reliant on the MOST broken mechanic in the game that ANY change will be seen as a huge nerf, even if it is bringing them back down.

Something has to be reduced – Damage, Stealth or Mobility. When they can just easily perma stealth up to you, Bask venom you and deal SO much damage in ONE hit then surely that is a sign that something must be done.

Stealth is SO obscenely overpowered. Its the BEST offensive in that you can just stealth up to someone BS them and already have them down to below 60% health (unless bunker) and in defense they can just spam stealth and escape with no punishment…

Definitely worth a bump, will Anet listen? Extremely unlikely though.

PSX.9250:

Definitely worth a bump, will Anet listen? Extremely unlikely though.

No. No they wont. Just like how they have refused to listen to players over EVERYTHING they have added to the game that no one has liked. Such the the Bloodlust buff, The Ruins. They pretty much ONLY add things and change things as long as they i know its something we DONT want.

Why? Because they dont care what we the players think, havent done from the start and continue to not care about what we would like. The Bloodlust, The Leagues, The Ruins all added when we said we didnt want them.

In the case of the leagues – to make money from people paying to transfer. They will of course continue to deny it, but that is the ONLY reason for the league system. The lower servers are going to struggle, just like they have done and the big servers will continue to win just like they have done. This wont change anything.

I’m not convinced there needs to be this extensive of a rework to address the problem of some trait bonuses not feeling impactful enough. I’m not saying everything is perfect the way it is, but I do feel like throwing out everything for something entirely new is a little bit of an overreaction.

From my understanding of game design, packaging the trait bonuses and attribute gains is actually a way of encouraging variety.

Given the way that attributes work, the objectively best way to output large amounts of direct damage is Power + Precision + Critical Damage (Berserker). Objectively, the best way to not die is Vitality + Toughness + Healing Power (no existing combo). Letting players choose which attributes to increase wouldn’t solve the problem of everyone going Berserker. Berserker would still be be the best way to output direct damage.

In fact, this may lead to even less build diversity since every class now has access to directly building Berserker. Packaging the stats together instead of just allowing the player pick what they want forces the player to think about trade offs.

While I definitely agree that some of the trait bonuses feel lackluster (and a list of which ones those are would be a very useful thing for Anet), separating traits like this doesn’t solve the issue, it just lets players ignore the less powerful traits.

Love this idea so much, I’ve decided to necro it

Good idea LoreChief! Allows for a lot more personalization in your builds and perhaps open up doors that are now not even considered. At the same time it might actually make builds that are extremely popular now (Berserker basically) even more overpowered, no?

I’d love to hear more elaboration from you LoreChief why/how you think that this will not happen.

Great job though!

Well. As Condition necro i have 40 points nowhere to put for PvE, since burning from dhuumfire can be easily overwrite and all other trees gives bonuses for power builds or increase defense, which i don’t need at all in pve (i didn’t die even in zerk builds with daggers)