Guild Wars 2

I’m gonna make a bold suggestion here, just to see what ppl think… Yes trinity has been brought up before but I haven’t see it suggested in this fashion, pretty much just using the game’s current setup but with more emphasis!

Further define the roles – add trinity but possible for all classes. Every class should have a more definitive layout for tank/heal/dps.

Currently every class can become tanky/supporty/dps – correct? It’s all a matter of stats & traits (toughness, +healing/boon duration, zerker gear, etc). Why not push it into a more defined role. We won’t be stuck with LF tank or LF healer for hours, but instead, just as things are now, all classes can fit the role. Make using a shield more attractive, I’d personally give thief the ability to evasion tank. probably Mesmer/Ele/Necro would be more CC/aoe dmg oriented setup – light armor class.

Of course in pvp such things would have to have reduced effectiveness for obvious reasons, but in PvE would be fun & probably allow for better strategies in content battles other than zerg-fests.

just a suggestion Wonder how many “boo’s!” i’ll get.. we’ll see!

boo (that’s 1)

boo (That’s 2) :P

Okay how about a rationale behind why not?

Mujen.2089:

Okay how about a rationale behind why not?

Trinity is the norm. I like having non-categorical playstyles; being able to jump into a group, knowing that everyone will contribute, but never being certain of exactly how. Suffering some initial difficulty as the group learns how to work together; laying down fields to boost attacks or cover an ally’s retreat; blinding a foe that’s about to smack someone down (or knocking back the enemy instead, or reflecting its projectile attack, etc).

I like having these kinds of small-scale “war stories” – minor successes involving good judgment, quick reflexes, etc. Things that demonstrate player skill (or, if you prefer, “class mastery”); things that can be complimented and thereby build rapport among players. I fear that a Trinity mechanic would tend to reduce everything to numbers (e.g. incoming damage rate versus healing rate, position on aggro tables) and tend to make combat encounters more similar (viz “tank and spank”).

Your point about Thieves using evasion tanking is also a concern. At present, the game relies on a relatively small range of random numbers (I’m referring to combat rather than loot here). Players and enemies can score critical hits, but you don’t have stuff like “my Agility stat is 1096, therefore 45% of all attacks aimed at me will automatically miss.” Mesmers can do something akin to evasion-tanking, but it doesn’t rely on dice rolls – it’s all about reading attack cues, balancing your cooldowns and endurance, adjusting distance-to-enemy using Leap and teleport skills, etc… I wouldn’t want to see the viability of a playstyle governed by a single “magic statistic” which supercedes player skill.

You do know that thieves currently have a lot of access to blind & evasion moves? Has nothing to do with magic stats. In it’s current state everything is about kiting, both PvE & PvP. It’s either kite or melee zerg. Just like most players think cleric gear is garbage, yet it’s in the game. 95% of the community is dps based it’s only the utility of the class & the fact you have to bring a self heal that gets things done. It’s those rebel minority who strive to go more support that will pickup cleric gear or go more support.

Yes, I know that a skilled Thief can keep close to an enemy while mitigating almost all of its damage. I suppose that you could setup a tank Thief, without introducing an evasion statistic, simply by minimizing offense (thus conserving Initiative for evasion skills) and opting for smoke/blind utilities in place of stealth skills. But now you run into the standard Trinity problem: “who would want to play this role?” You get worse loot than the DPS guys, and you’re under more pressure.

I don’t think that you’ve solved the “LF tank, LF healer” problem. Any class can serve as a tank, but that doesn’t mean that one guy in each random 5-player group is certain to have an appropriate trait and gear setup. So you might get a group together at the dungeon gate and then try to bully one of the party members until he returns to town, pays the waypoint and respec fees, dons an alternate suit of armour, and adjusts his skills. Or he refuses and leaves the party, at which point you have a four-man party mournfully repeating the familiar chorus “LF tank.”

P.S. Everything that I’ve written in this thread has been in the context of dungeons, under the assumption that dungeon content will be rebalanced so as to require trinity playstyles. If you’re thinking more about open-world encounters, dynamic events, PvP, or WvW then a lot of my criticism is probably inapplicable.

Amusingly…take 3 support builds into a dungeoun (the remaining 2 can be anything) and if anyone drops something seriously went wrong…and chances are the tun took only one minute longer.
Pure glass cannon builds honestly don’t help all that much compared to supporter builds (banner warrior, shout warrior, buff guard, heal guard, etc…). I run into far more support/controller builds than glass canons honestly…also quite a few tanks (mace/shield, mace/sword warriors and mace/shield, mace/focus guards mostly).

Those raw dps builds are also the first to die off in any pvp (unless it is a thief or crafty mesmer. thieves have way too many stealth options for one…mesmers, a well playe done is awsome to behold and honestly funt o fight against).

Instead of using the Trinity formula (tank/heal/dps) to further define player’s roles, there should be greater focus on Initiators and Finishers of Cross-Profession-Combos.

In my opinion. It’s an either-or.

You either have a trinity in GW2 or you don’t. Because even if you put a psuedo trinity in game you will STILL need a taunt mechanic and an aggro table. And eventually, this will evolve into an actual trinity game (which we do not want).

As for your suggestion that all professions should be able to do all three roles. It’s already in the game right now. All you have to do is to make a build that is centered around that role. Although you may have problems holding aggro due to how it’s handled in this game. It’s random and varies on different mobs.

Boo! (That’s 3… Just because)

The Trinity doesn’t add ‘tactical gameplay’ outside of the Healer heals, the DPS pew-pew and the Tank shouts insults to keep the mob angry at him (since typically the Tank does less damage than the DPS). It’s sort of a pseudo-teamwork; you need all of the roles to do the content, but you’re still only focusing on what you’re doing.

It’s still zerging, except the mob keeps on the Tank, as opposed to jumping between players that they perceive as the biggest PitA (I’ve noticed when I’m ressing someone the mob will come and attack me).

I haven’t come across an encounter mechanic in a Trinity game (I raided WoW for the best part of 3 years from TBC) that couldn’t be implemented in GW2 (outside of healing from near death and keeping the mob facing away from the people throwing balls of fire and stuff).

There is an aggression/threat table in the game presently, which I’m guessing quite a few people don’t realize since a “tank” warrior doesn’t really work as well as say a guardian “tank”. Here’s how it works:
reviving a player
closest target to them
ranged attacks
top damage dealers
lowest HP
who is using a shield / has more overall armor

Building a “tank” in this game, IMO doesn’t work. Warrior has the best shield abilities, but if there is a guardian with low hp/high toughness the mobs will gravitate towards them (as I’ve seen happen to me MANY times & I don’t even use a shield). I also tested this out with my warrior friend had 30k hp, 3200 toughness + 1h/shield & we tested on a champ and it was glued to me whether I wanted it or not. I have 17k hp and 3030 toughness, no shield. Which leads me to “tank” warrior is a waste of dps.. (yes play how you want) but theoretically a warrior going tank is the top dps in the game gimping their dps for what can easily not go according to their desired plan of not holding aggro. There are no peels/taunts so you can have a “tank” setup and the monster goes for someone else & all you can do is swing your weapon, mace gets a short interrupt but that’s it. Secondly you cannot face tank all mobs, there are no heals & some mobs just hit too hard or gain frenzy which will literally tear you apart quickly.

And we’re not talking pvp anyway. Many players go for berzerker gear in PvE aka glass cannon, etc. You can evade (once again evasion) many mechanics if you understand them moreso if you’re a ranged character. Meleeing everything is looked upon as risky, kiting is the preferred method of takedown.

Actually you can heal from near death in GW2, if you’re setup for it. I main a guardian and you do have serious burst heal potential + regen/protection. I can pop instant 3k+ heal & 3 sec later another 3k+ heal & im not even full support (6k+ in 3sec, not counting regen ticks). I’ve had a warrior say on a CoF run “wow i’m usually dead by now, how am I gaining HP?” My friend and I both thought it was funny. But once again, it’s from someone not going all out dps & understanding their class’s mechanics.

I just personally would like to use my shield more & it’s very unattractive other than to revive players with knockback support.

Last note: gw2 is psuedo teamwork aswell, it’s setup that it works because there are no target skills, buffs are either radius or individual & not limited to party members. Most players do not develop situational awareness to see what’s going on around them during an intense encounter as your character is setup to be self sufficient. As long as you’re dps with some survival it’s all good, that’s my basic summary.

The thing I don’t actually like is that heavy armor does not feel like heavy armor at all; having light armor classes with nearly the same amount of armor as a guardian or a warrior is absurd.
Everyone should be able to cover the tank role BUT it should be mostly based on class skills instead of HP and armor.
While using my guardian I really feel ashamed that, for example, a necromancer arrives and he/she got the same amount of armor, 1/3 more hp than me. I think he/she should rely on utility/weapon skills instead of pure raw armor/hp; shouldn’t armor/hp be generally associated to soldier classes? What’s the meaning of using heavy armor if it’s not that heavy?

Havent your heard? Trinity is dead! 1 mes , 4 wars = 1 support , 4 dps = Cof Path 1 done!

I didn’t see a third in that equation.

Yeah I’m well aware with the zerg mechanics & I must say time warp is like crack lol It’s so good lol CoF P1 is a special special place.. I actually farm it nightly. But it’s starting to get boring as the farming isn’t going towards any future goals.