True Collaborative Development

True Collaborative Development

in Suggestions

Posted by: Smiley.5376

Smiley.5376

Hello everyone, the posts you are about to read is as a reaction to the “Collaborative Development – Request for Topics” posts made by the devs. I find there idea really good, let’s say it’s finally going into the right direction, but it could be MUCH better.

These posts are about how we could make collaborative development really work and how both parties, the player base and Anet, will be rewarded with what they want.

First things first: dissecting the current idea of collaborative development

The way it works now you will have one thread about each discussion(that we have chosen) in each area of the game(pvp, pve and wvw). A mass of people will put their own ideas forth in this thread, random suggestions or in depth posts. Then Anet will have to filter out all the crap(which is time-consuming), see what is said the most(but no one will agree on the same things, EVERY POST WILL DIFFERENT) and then make the decision in our place. This is a step in the right direction but not entirely.

Why ? Because it is too time consuming, we will still have a lot of things NOT done(since Anet chooses mostly what to put and what not), won’t exactly know what is coming the next patch, is unorganized, etc etc

Abstract

Take it a step further and instead of having a clusterkitten of ideas that you have to consider, make it so that only well-thought ideas can be brought up in the public and let the people vote for the changes they would like the most. This way you are 100% sure that this is what your player base really wants instead of playing a guessing game. People will become confident in the facts that you actually listen to us and DEVELOP COLLABORATIVLY.

My idea in detail

-3 new forum sections for each area in the game: collaborative development for pvp, pve and wvw

-A whole topic about the current discussion in each section(e.g. Balance)

-Let people post their ideas about the current discussion in the form of a thread

-These threads should be structured, in depth, coherent etc etc

  • example for balance: work together with a couple of friends where each addresses a different issue: the OP builds, the trait system, build variety, …
  • this way the devs won’t need to put all the pieces together of each separate suggestion(in the case of separate posts under 1 thread), processing will be much easier

-Let people vote(within a timeframe) instead of post criticism what suggestion they find the most needed, suits the best, etc etc

  • ONLY yes votes and only 1 vote/thread. Both for obvious reasons(shouldn’t elaborate this)

-Make it so that voting in a section can only be done if this is the area (wvw, pvp, pve) you play the most in

  • Make a “poll” (implemented in launch client) where a player can choose 1 area that he wants to represent(and thus help making decisions)

-Then the devs should combine elements from the top X(3-5) threads and make their own X(2-3) threads that would actually be the patch notes ! The devs choose what can and can’t be achieved within the timeframe and specify the things they would like to implement in the next patch.(this way we know what will be done in the next X months in detail !)

-If clarification is needed the devs could invite the Original Poster for a talk.

-Again: let the people vote between those 2-3 threads and VOILA. We know what will come in the next patches and it is EXACTLY what we voted for. Ok, maybe not everything will be included but most of it will ! And if the timeframe is too small, then they have the obligation to let us know what they want to include in the patch that comes after.

The timeframe

I think if we work together like this we can achieve great things, but it WILL take TIME.
This is why I think 1 patch/month is TO MUCH for the devs to think and for the programmers to code.
A much more efficient way of working would be:

-After each patch, 1 week for answering the poll(through launch client !) “Do you think the current changes regarding [insert discussion] are sufficient ?”

-2 weeks for brainstorming(people posting threads) about the current discussion(if majority said no; read 60% or more) or about the new discussion that was in the list(if majority said yes ; read: 60% or more). The percentage is just an idea, choose to whatever you think is majority considering players that will give a random answer etc etc

-1 week for the devs threads voting

-This whole month, the DEVS have the time to look at our ideas and have their own discussion internally.

-1 month for the programmers to do their work

  • 1 BIG patch with as much changes as the programmers can handle every two months

True Collaborative Development

in Suggestions

Posted by: Smiley.5376

Smiley.5376

A couple of additions besides the main idea

1. About Efficiënt Patching/Programming

If I’m correct the pve team (devs + programmers) is much bigger than the wvw and pvp team
This is why I think the wvw and pvp programmers should WORK together in the following way:

There’s a patch every 2 months. Let’s say the first there’s a pvp patch after wich a wvw patch follows. Then pvp patch then wvw patch. Etc etc

  • The month where the PvP devs watch our brainstorming and having their own internal d iscussions the PvP PROGRAMMERS could be helping out the WvW programmers !
  • The month where the WvW devs watch our brainstorming and having their own internal discussions the WvW PROGRAMMERS could be helping out the PvP programmers !

(((Regarding 1 patch every two months for PvE:
This situation is a little tricky for PvE due to living world… I think for the moment the frequency of patches for PvE should not be changed, this is a discussion on itself for the PvE Collaborative Development.
You could implement the same thing for PvE, one BIG patch every TWO months but with things that have nothing to do with “Living World”, or just remove Living World completely and make actual permanent changes to the game every two months, this could be a Collaborative Developtment Section(like wvw, pve, pvp) on its own.))) => some random thinking.

2. A Bug Fixing Patch

If you take my suggestion seriously (and I hope you do, it would be a HUGE improvement) then you should first do the following thing before starting this whole process:

-A Bug Fixing Patch: fix all trait bugs, skill bugs, map bugs, event bugs, sigil bugs, rune bugs, combat bugs, other kinds of bugs…

  • I Don’t Understand why this hasn’t been done earlier ; You can’t have a balanced game if it’s still filled with a huge amount of bugs.

Excuse me if this sounded rude but I really think this is necessary before fixing anything or making improvements in any aspect of the game.

If you do this do it in a collaborative way ; put up a thread where you list all the bugs you are going to fix and ask for feedback for any bugs you might have missed !

3. About the future of bug fixing

If you do this bug fixing patch I think you should reconsider the way you fix future bugs. You could follow the same kind of idea I have for these discussions, but then for the bugs only.

4. About the Balance discussion.(since I think this is the discussion most people want to have first)

This is something that impacts the whole game and I think it should be done synchronically over the three area’s(wvw, pvp, pve). Of course you still keep the topics separated (pvp players don’t know kitten about wvw or pve balance and vice versa) but then it is Anet’s task to combine the top X suggestions of each area and then make a couple of possibilities that that are posted in every area with specification of [this will mostly influence area WvW/PvP/PvE]

5. Random

I apologize if anything is unclear, feel free to ask any explanation about anything and PLEASE give CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK, NO FLAMING.

A Last Word

What I want to achieve with this post is having a whole lot of people that support my idea so that we can take this collaborative development to the next level.(if Anet considers my idea of course)

This does not mean Anet doesn’t have anything to say in its own game, this means that player base and developers will work together in a way that has never been seen before (correct me if I’m wrong). !

The changes(updates, patches) that will be made are of course only those that apply to the discussion, we should not decide EVERYTHING Anet does. Next to this initiative they should still look at all the other suggestions that are done/have been done and inform us if they want to implement any of those besides what goes on in the discussion.

There’s a lot of things Anet doesn’t know or doesn’t have the time to think about, but we do !
There’s also a lot of things that we don’t know about the game since we did not develop it.
Combine these both forces in a true democratic way and you will have the ultimate game.
Just imagine how GW2 could become ! A game for the player base, by the player base.

There are a lot of things I still have to say but atm I just want to relax XD too much writing and thinking…

Cheers !

Smiley

True Collaborative Development

in Suggestions

Posted by: TheDaiBish.9735

TheDaiBish.9735


-3 new forum sections for each area in the game: collaborative development for pvp, pve and wvw

-A whole topic about the current discussion in each section(e.g. Balance)

-Let people post their ideas about the current discussion in the form of a thread

-These threads should be structured, in depth, coherent etc etc

  • example for balance: work together with a couple of friends where each addresses a different issue: the OP builds, the trait system, build variety, …
  • this way the devs won’t need to put all the pieces together of each separate suggestion(in the case of separate posts under 1 thread), processing will be much easier

-Let people vote(within a timeframe) instead of post criticism what suggestion they find the most needed, suits the best, etc etc

  • ONLY yes votes and only 1 vote/thread. Both for obvious reasons(shouldn’t elaborate this)

-Make it so that voting in a section can only be done if this is the area (wvw, pvp, pve) you play the most in

  • Make a “poll” (implemented in launch client) where a player can choose 1 area that he wants to represent(and thus help making decisions)

-Then the devs should combine elements from the top X(3-5) threads and make their own X(2-3) threads that would actually be the patch notes ! The devs choose what can and can’t be achieved within the timeframe and specify the things they would like to implement in the next patch.(this way we know what will be done in the next X months in detail !)

-If clarification is needed the devs could invite the Original Poster for a talk.

-Again: let the people vote between those 2-3 threads and VOILA. We know what will come in the next patches and it is EXACTLY what we voted for. Ok, maybe not everything will be included but most of it will ! And if the timeframe is too small, then they have the obligation to let us know what they want to include in the patch that comes after.

  • WvW / PvP / PvE are simply too broad topics; a PvE player could be someone who likes dungeon and hates the open world. Not to mention you have all of the other little topics, such as Character Progression, Crafting, the Economy ect.
  • Could potentially lead to an imbalance. For example, the SPvP population is lower than the PvE population. While the SPvP will be more focused on things, PvE will get more input.
  • What if a player plays 2 or more game-modes equally? Or what if a player has feedback for a particular game-mode concerning issues that made them stop playing that particular content?
  • I personally don’t think that players should actually dictate what will be in the next patch, since we don’t actually know what tools are available to Anet. Patience is another factor. Thus, devs should look at the most workable ideas first that could be pumped out relatively quickly (no additional tools needed developing ect), while a small team problem-solve on some of the bigger ideas / issues.
  • In terms of bug-fixing, you’ll never get rid of 100% of bugs, and introducing new code can always affect something that was fine before (look at the falling Chaos Storm bug). Not to mention you simply can’t expect the content creators to stop what they’re doing while bugs get fixed, since they’re getting paid to work.
  • As for balance, you’ll never get the player base to agree on what is balanced and what isn’t. I dubbed it the Grass Is Greener Syndrome; your class will always feel underpowered. Sometimes this is legitimate, sometimes it isn’t.

They could have easily collected data in the form of a clickable poll:

1) Divide it into sections (PvE / WvW / PvP / Game Mechanics / Polish ect).
2) Give players the chance to choose 3 out of, say, 5 topics OR have 5 topics, and get players to number in what they consider to be the most important. These topics are initially decided by what the devs feel could be expanded on the most.
3) Collate the data, and then have a discussions on them 5 topics in order of perceived importance.
4) At the end of each discussion, release a blog post outlining the main concerns for each of them areas, and what Anet could potentially do to help these areas of concern. Maybe pop in some exceptional suggestions by players. After the first blog post, devs write any progress / complications they’ve made on issues from the previous blog post.

Life is a journey.
Time is a river.
The door is ajar.

True Collaborative Development

in Suggestions

Posted by: Smiley.5376

Smiley.5376

i’m quoting you but if i put everything in, the message is to long xD

I appreciate your post, it’s really constructive. This is one of the points i didn’t elaborate in my original post.

My logic goas as follows:
The devs want us to discuss about important topics. I’m not saying we make ALL decisions. It’s COLLABORATIVE development, i only want to change this system(the collaborative development thing they have now set up).

A lot of in-depth posts by gamers that KNOW their area(pve,pvp,wvw) and have talked to many others about it is more constructive and much easier for Anet then a whole lot of posts in one thread about 1 topic(a discussion like you call it).

A lot of people are going to say random things, but if you let those speak that have broad and big ideas that are well-thought and coherent and let the others vote for what they think is the most importent THEN Anet will have muchhhhh more ideas and details than they could come up by themselves. It would also affirm ideas Anet already had, but in an ORGANIZED way.

And after this exactly like you said, they make a blog-post where they filter out the ideas they think are the most viable. Not from the discussion which will be a clusterkitten of ideas but from organized threads that talk about the topic that is discussed about in a coherent and most complete way.

I’m not saying this should be the main focus of the patches, but i think if Anet does the effort to have this discussion with us, it means they will put a lot of time and effort into it. So why make it not easier for them to collect our ideas + have a general opinion by the people on what they like the most ?

About the balance issues well… Like i said, Anet decides from the top posts that would benefit balance across all three aspects the most by first looking at the individual top posts and then integrating them in a way they think is best. I also never said that they should ONLY do what we say, they can add other things, but it would be nice if they also said it in the blog post.

About people playing 2 game modes at the same time. Well i don’t know. There’s always a game mode you play the most and you want to have the most to say.

But now that i think about it. It doesn’t matter how much votes a thread gets relative to their total playerbase(wvw, pvp and pve), only relative to the total amount of votes that have been done within that section.
So you could scrap the “dividing” poll.

About the bug fixing patch. Well okay maybe that’s to much asked but they could consider developing a system like this(the one I’m proposing) to see what bugs we would like to be fixed as soon as possible. It’s just a suggestion to make bug fixing more efficiënt.

Cheers

True Collaborative Development

in Suggestions

Posted by: Smiley.5376

Smiley.5376

Seriously noone can give any feedback about this idea ?
Is it too far reached ?
Is it too broad ?
Should i go into more detail ?
Is it bad, is it good ?

A simple like is good enough aswell