Guild Wars 2

Currently level 70 and it’s become clear that waypoint costs are ridiculous.

I can afford them if I focus on farming but that doesn’t make it ok. There are some serious issues with the costs.

- It feels like garbage.

- MMOs are social. Sometimes my friends ask me to go to a specific area to meet them. This system discourages me from doing that.

- It puts additional pressure on me to farm and be efficient. The motivation to do that should be based completely on which goals I set for myself, not based on stressful mechanics that make me afraid I’ll make negative progress.

- It makes me do frivolous things like going through a bunch of asura portals to avoid the extra distance cost.

At low levels I didn’t care about the waypoint costs, but now that they are significant it got me thinking and I really think the concept is terrible. It adds nothing to the game in its current form.

There are some acceptable situations to have waypoint costs imo…

- When the player is dead. Punishment for death is important. It seems like a good way to do it so that there’s some motivation to wait for a rez.

- When the player is out in the middle of nowhere (ie. not at a waypoint or city) A cost for convenience. But if I run over to a waypoint, it should be free to travel to any waypoint imo.

Edit: In light of points brought up in the discussion so far here are my suggestions:
- Scale WP costs based on zone level rather than character level
- City WPs should be free to travel to from anywhere.
That would keep zerging under control but reduce a lot of the stress caused by the current system

I have to agree, waypoint travel cost should be lowered. If you cut if by 50% it’s still a noticable amount to 90% of playerbase, yet it’s not so much it would prevent them from playing with their friends.

Simply said, normal gameplay, which ANET is promoting, just doesn’t cover the travel cost.

I agree with the last statement If I make the effort to go to and stand DIRECTLY under a Waypoint then the asura should’ve been smart enough to make it so I can pop anywhere else at free or reduced charge…

Unless you have thrown all your money at something you shouldn’t feel the need to farm for more. It is a little expensive at the moment but I can afford it easily.

aeonZgamer.5307:

I agree with the last statement If I make the effort to go to and stand DIRECTLY under a Waypoint then the asura should’ve been smart enough to make it so I can pop anywhere else at free or reduced charge…

This is a nice idea

What bothers me most about this, is the cost increase.

Say from point A to point B. The exact start and finish waypoint for each level.

At level 10, it is a few coppers to go from A to B. At level 50, it is probably a silver or more to go from A to B. At level 80, it is around three silver to go from A to B.

Why? Why is the price going up the higher level I go? It is the exact same path no matter what level I am, so why are you charging me more and more the more I progress? It makes absolutely no sense at all.

I never had a problem with way point costs before. I’m also sure in the not too long future from now that the way point price will become trivial as the market becomes bigger and more people have gold to throw around.

I am also in the “WP cost to much” boat.

aeonZgamer.5307:

If I make the effort to go to and stand DIRECTLY under a Waypoint then the asura should’ve been smart enough to make it so I can pop anywhere else at free or reduced charge…

This is a fantastic idea!

I’m not an expert on economies, but it’s clear this is meant to help control higher inflation of the market by taking gold out of it. In the long run it’s better to control rampant inflation, because it means you can buy more with your in game income than you could otherwise. Perhaps a post by John Smith would help shine a spotlight on gold sinks and their effects on inflation.

SausageStorm.4293:

I never had a problem with way point costs before. I’m also sure in the not too long future from now that the way point price will become trivial as the market becomes bigger and more people have gold to throw around.

Totally beside the point. Like I said, I can cover the costs easily.

The point is it feels terrible for several reasons. The worst one is if my friends ask me to come somewhere I’m likely to decline because I might deem it not worth the cost. When that happens you know something has gone terribly wrong. This is a social game. I should never feel like I have to say that to my friends.

If they cost too much, don’t use them. They are a nicety, not a necessity. I think Anet screwed up a bit by having them so cheap to begin with and people start taking them for granted, then when they ramp up to normal cost people start complaining.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

What bothers me most about this, is the cost increase.

Say from point A to point B. The exact start and finish waypoint for each level.

At level 10, it is a few coppers to go from A to B. At level 50, it is probably a silver or more to go from A to B. At level 80, it is around three silver to go from A to B.

Why? Why is the price going up the higher level I go? It is the exact same path no matter what level I am, so why are you charging me more and more the more I progress? It makes absolutely no sense at all.

It needs to be based on Zone not level
I mean if you’re in Orr sure a couple silver to pop from A – D is ok it’s a Max level zone
But If I’m lvl 50 in the Starter Sylvari zone and it costs me 3s to go from Point A to Point C to help someone because I’m lvl 50? What if my FUNDS (which you’re slowly removing just so you know Anet nor have you even addressed the issue of how poor the econ is right now) are so low that 3s near breaks me it ruins the game imho
It should be changed that if you’re under a waypoint Directly you can jump to another one at Free (if within 1 or 2) or Reduced (If within 3 or 4 of target area)
Charging for everything under the sun reducing our funds down to nothing
Making Crafting so expensive is gives us migraines thinking about it
What
Do
YOU (ANet) Want us to do? How do we play YOUR game cause obviously YOUR Time is Now Dunno WHEN Our Time is…

I agree. Mechanics shouldn’t be put in that act to frustrate players. Do away with thekittencosts or make them static so it’s only a few copper

SirMoogie.9263:

I’m not an expert on economies, but it’s clear this is meant to help control higher inflation of the market by taking gold out of it. In the long run it’s better to control rampant inflation, because it means you can buy more with your in game income than you could otherwise. Perhaps a post by John Smith would help shine a spotlight on gold sinks and their effects on inflation.

Oh I didn’t realize the economy was more important than having a low-stress experience while playing.

aeonZgamer.5307:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

What bothers me most about this, is the cost increase.

Say from point A to point B. The exact start and finish waypoint for each level.

At level 10, it is a few coppers to go from A to B. At level 50, it is probably a silver or more to go from A to B. At level 80, it is around three silver to go from A to B.

Why? Why is the price going up the higher level I go? It is the exact same path no matter what level I am, so why are you charging me more and more the more I progress? It makes absolutely no sense at all.

It needs to be based on Zone not level
I mean if you’re in Orr sure a couple silver to pop from A – D is ok it’s a Max level zone
But If I’m lvl 50 in the Starter Sylvari zone and it costs me 3s to go from Point A to Point C to help someone because I’m lvl 50? What if my FUNDS (which you’re slowly removing just so you know Anet nor have you even addressed the issue of how poor the econ is right now) are so low that 3s near breaks me it ruins the game imho
It should be changed that if you’re under a waypoint Directly you can jump to another one at Free (if within 1 or 2) or Reduced (If within 3 or 4 of target area)
Charging for everything under the sun reducing our funds down to nothing
Making Crafting so expensive is gives us migraines thinking about it
What
Do
YOU (ANet) Want us to do? How do we play YOUR game cause obviously YOUR Time is Now Dunno WHEN Our Time is…

Yeah based on zone would be a huge improvement.

I completely agree with you man.
Wayhpoint costs are wayyyy over priced. I think they shouldn’t cost anything, but if they do- why is it so overpriced?! i find myself losing about 10s and hour for traveling!

SirMoogie.9263:

I’m not an expert on economies, but it’s clear this is meant to help control higher inflation of the market by taking gold out of it. In the long run it’s better to control rampant inflation, because it means you can buy more with your in game income than you could otherwise. Perhaps a post by John Smith would help shine a spotlight on gold sinks and their effects on inflation.

Whoa mate, slow down. It’s an MMO game not an RTS and most definetly not Civ5…

I think that they should just make the Lion’s Arch waypoint free and save us all the silly PvP trips etc.

Lv 80 characters get higher waypoint costs because you also earn much more Gold at lv80 than at lv 10.

However I think that the costs should scale down when traveling around low lv areas to make up for the less valuable loot and smaller Gold rewards in those zones.
Encourage us to visit lower lv zones!

Adding my +1 that WP costs are far too much. Make it a small nominal fee or preferably get rid of the costs alltogether.

LastDay.3524:

I think that they should just make the Lion’s Arch waypoint free and save us all the silly PvP trips etc.

Lv 80 characters get higher waypoint costs because you also earn much more Gold at lv80 than at lv 10.

However I think that the costs should scale down when traveling around low lv areas to make up for the less valuable loot and smaller Gold rewards in those zones.
Encourage us to visit lower lv zones!

At current I don’t know a whole lot of people that are cruising around 80 with more than a couple gold pieces

Deith.7596:

SirMoogie.9263:

I’m not an expert on economies, but it’s clear this is meant to help control higher inflation of the market by taking gold out of it. In the long run it’s better to control rampant inflation, because it means you can buy more with your in game income than you could otherwise. Perhaps a post by John Smith would help shine a spotlight on gold sinks and their effects on inflation.

Whoa mate, slow down. It’s an MMO game not an RTS and most definetly not Civ5…

So? It still has an economy. It still needs to be kept under control.

ref.8196:

Deith.7596:

SirMoogie.9263:

I’m not an expert on economies, but it’s clear this is meant to help control higher inflation of the market by taking gold out of it. In the long run it’s better to control rampant inflation, because it means you can buy more with your in game income than you could otherwise. Perhaps a post by John Smith would help shine a spotlight on gold sinks and their effects on inflation.

Whoa mate, slow down. It’s an MMO game not an RTS and most definetly not Civ5…

So? It still has an economy. It still needs to be kept under control.

And it will and it is
We’re not saying Down with the establishment we’re just saying we need some mediation towards the costs of things

Agree that waypoint costs are too high.

I don’t have a problem with charging someone a handful of coppers or even a couple silver if they are going from one zone to another (with the cost increasing based on distance), but I think it should be free (or pretty close to free) to jump from one waypoint to another within the same zone.

If costs are to be incurred for traveling from one waypoint to another, it should be a static cost and not level dependent. We have other gold sinks in the game — this doesn’t need to be one.

Honestly, gold is not hard to make. There are guides all over the internet for Orichalcum farms that take at the most 30 minutes a day. That alone will net you ~1g. Factor in if you do events along the way that’s another 5-20 silver. If you get super lucky with Orb hits on Orichalcum veins then that’s another 15s per Ruby Orb as well.

Khristophoros.7194:

SirMoogie.9263:

I’m not an expert on economies, but it’s clear this is meant to help control higher inflation of the market by taking gold out of it. In the long run it’s better to control rampant inflation, because it means you can buy more with your in game income than you could otherwise. Perhaps a post by John Smith would help shine a spotlight on gold sinks and their effects on inflation.

Oh I didn’t realize the economy was more important than having a low-stress experience while playing.

If you use the trading post, then the state of the economy could be a source of “stress”. That you don’t, doesn’t mean that others wouldn’t find a hyperinflated economy a source of stress. Try to take into account other perspectives. I have never been a position where I wasn’t gaining savings due to the gold sinks (i.e., currency destroyers). The currency creation in this game has always been sufficient to have slow growth (and rapid growth when I take advantage of the trading post). If you are perhaps there is something you are doing that I’m not. Try to help me understand. How do your play the game?

Maybe they could change it so it’s much cheaper the first couple ports, then slowly increases the amount based on how many times you’re waypointing within the same area based on distance.

Say if it cost 50c to get into kessex hills. Goes up 10-20% based on how far you teleport again WITHIN kessex hills, up and up til maybe what it is now. But if you decide to port to somewhere outside of kessex hills it’s back to its cheap cost based on distance.

Punishes overuse for laziness but doesn’t punish people for making single ports across zones.

Everytime you waypoint, complete 2 events at the very least. Then you realize waypoints aren’t expensive.

If you frivolously waypoint travel, naturally you will find that costs are punishing, and rightfully so.

Waypoints seem a bit costly, but I really have no problem paying it (have over 19 gold).

It’s not like I rarely use them, either. I don’t mind a short walk, but I’m not going to walk across a map to get somewhere.

Vladia.2731:

Honestly, gold is not hard to make. There are guides all over the internet for Orichalcum farms that take at the most 30 minutes a day. That alone will net you ~1g. Factor in if you do events along the way that’s another 5-20 silver. If you get super lucky with Orb hits on Orichalcum veins then that’s another 15s per Ruby Orb as well.

So you’re saying the Solution is to Farm to Grind
To sell everything useable Kitten other people that are probably in your guild that could use them. It’s all about you It’s all about how fat you can make your wallet and if someone else is having a bad time Kitten them too

Yeah that just SCREAMS Breaking from the Norm MMORPG mold…

It’s just a ploy to keep your money low. “Aww…. If you need money you can always buy some gems.” seewhatididthere

Vladia.2731:

Honestly, gold is not hard to make. There are guides all over the internet for Orichalcum farms that take at the most 30 minutes a day. That alone will net you ~1g. Factor in if you do events along the way that’s another 5-20 silver. If you get super lucky with Orb hits on Orichalcum veins then that’s another 15s per Ruby Orb as well.

They gonna nerf it, no worries.

I don’t know exactly what you are doing, but I never had trouble with this. If you hop all over the place this can became quite expensive quickly, but otherwise …

I can always easily afford WPing to a friend, helping out, then WPing back. Short distances I don’t WP, but that’s finde imho.

WPing is expensive, but I don’t think it’s in any way game breaking. If I play normally I come out of the day with 50-100silver more than I started, and that already included WPing, repairing and other costs.

SirMoogie.9263:

Khristophoros.7194:

SirMoogie.9263:

I’m not an expert on economies, but it’s clear this is meant to help control higher inflation of the market by taking gold out of it. In the long run it’s better to control rampant inflation, because it means you can buy more with your in game income than you could otherwise. Perhaps a post by John Smith would help shine a spotlight on gold sinks and their effects on inflation.

Oh I didn’t realize the economy was more important than having a low-stress experience while playing.

If you use the trading post, then the state of the economy could be a source of “stress”. That you don’t, doesn’t mean that others wouldn’t find a hyperinflated economy a source of stress. Try to take into account other perspectives. I have never been a position where I wasn’t gaining savings due to the gold sinks (i.e., currency destroyers). The currency creation in this game has always been sufficient to have slow growth (and rapid growth when I take advantage of the trading post). If you are perhaps there is something you are doing that I’m not. Try to help me understand. How do your play the game?

Currently I just farm and level because anything else would actually cause me to lose coin.

I understand that inflation needs to be controlled but there are simply better ways to do it.

aeonZgamer.5307:

Vladia.2731:

Honestly, gold is not hard to make. There are guides all over the internet for Orichalcum farms that take at the most 30 minutes a day. That alone will net you ~1g. Factor in if you do events along the way that’s another 5-20 silver. If you get super lucky with Orb hits on Orichalcum veins then that’s another 15s per Ruby Orb as well.

So you’re saying the Solution is to Farm to Grind
To sell everything useable Kitten other people that are probably in your guild that could use them. It’s all about you It’s all about how fat you can make your wallet and if someone else is having a bad time Kitten them too

Yeah that just SCREAMS Breaking from the Norm MMORPG mold…

So you should just have money handed to you for doing nothing then? No wonder the waypoints cost too much. You don’t feel like working for anything.

30-45 minutes a day is hardly a bad grind. There are many other things in this game that can be considered a grind, but a daily Orichalcum run is quite possibly the easiest thing you can do to make money. You don’t even have to kill anything!

You put words on my screen
Did I say I wanted things handed to me? All I want to do is play a nice game without Stressing In-Game about money
Do I expect to have 10000000000s of G tossed at me NO So don’t even expect that
Do I expect to work towards having some Money Sure
But when I have everything in the world taking it away it’s kinda hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel

I honestly really do wonder if we are playing the same game sometimes…
My game goes like this…
Call in chat, event close to X waypoint – great, I’ll jump to there, 67 copper.. well I will make that back and then some in the event.
Friend says he is playing in X location – great, I’ll jump to there, 80 copper.. well I will make that back in maybe 5 minutes killing stuff, its only an average blue or selling a couple of loot bags on the Trading post
Need to jump locations – great, I’ll jump to there, 1 silver 30 copper, hmm… maybe I will walk a little closer to the edge of the map, great saved myself 60 copper for 2 minutes walk….

Vladia, we expect to work for things like armor and weapons, not traveling to quickly join our friends. There are plenty of gold sinks besides this (I mean, have you seen the cost for a legendary?) so the reason isn’t economic. It’s frustrating to have in the game, even if the amount of money isn’t going to be hugely significant long term.

To avoid reposting everything:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Allow-free-teleportation-in-fully-explored-maps/first#post152422

Sounds like you need to stop using waypoints like a personal chauffeur then. There’s Asura gates that make long distance travel easier, and if you have to get back to Lion’s Arch in a hurry just “Go to the Mists” – > Asura gate to Lion’s Arch.

There’s easy ways to save money, and there’re easy ways to make money. Don’t say that you have to farm your face off and sell every usable thing when there are obvious solutions to your problems.

I also think it would be an awesome idea to completely remove the costs once a map has been 100% cleared. On top of just lowering the costs in general.

Waypoints should have a timer installed on them. Once every hour or so we get a free use. After that, a fee.
This would allow use to meet with friends, get to dungeon points, meet up at zone events without pain. The timer would then prevent “free” farming and event zerg farming.

Xericor.9103:

I honestly really do wonder if we are playing the same game sometimes…
My game goes like this…
Call in chat, event close to X waypoint – great, I’ll jump to there, 67 copper.. well I will make that back and then some in the event.
Friend says he is playing in X location – great, I’ll jump to there, 80 copper.. well I will make that back in maybe 5 minutes killing stuff, its only an average blue or selling a couple of loot bags on the Trading post
Need to jump locations – great, I’ll jump to there, 1 silver 30 copper, hmm… maybe I will walk a little closer to the edge of the map, great saved myself 60 copper for 2 minutes walk….

The fee increases based on character level. It’s over 1 silver minimum for me even to go between the closest waypoints.

It’s not breaking my bank but it feels terrible and it makes me think about if I should use a WP or not. I don’t like that at all.

Way-pointing is a luxury. Like owning a helicopter.

I find it more immersive to just run everywhere and take asura gates when possible. It definitely drives home the size of the world, and reminds you of the possibilities for fun-making.

Yes, it takes more time to run from place to place, but it’s not frivolous like the OP posted. It’s actually fun. Frivolous is using the way-point system almost exclusively for travel. Now THAT’S frivolous.

Khristophoros.7194:

- MMOs are social. Sometimes my friends ask me to go to a specific area to meet them. This system discourages me from doing that.

This is the only time it really bothers me. I can usually keep waypoint travel to a minimum, and it’s not an issue – but then when I want to join a friend, and they’re a few zones away, it seems excessive. Especially considering how this happens a lot.

How about a discount for travelling to someone we’re grouped with? Or something like that? (it could be abused, sure.. but really, oh no! people might save some coin by grouping? doesn’t seem that big of a deal to me…)

Also like thos solution:

Waypoints should have a timer installed on them. Once every hour or so we get a free use. After that, a fee.
This would allow use to meet with friends, get to dungeon points, meet up at zone events without pain. The timer would then prevent “free” farming and event zerg farming.

..but I don’t like the solution of free or discounted travel on maps we’ve “cleared.”

For one thing, that would practically force players to complete maps, and not everyone is a completionist. The current rewards seem like plenty, without making it mandatory for people who aren’t really interesting in clearing anything.

For another, it rewards people who do clear everything too much. For them, suddenly they can waypoint all over the place, without any costs? Eventually, that will be almost everyone, but the costs are there for a reason. Might as well just make it free, if you’re going to do that.

The fee increases per level? Ah hadnt really noticed that, I am only level 50.
But my loot sells for higher and my rewards are higher, so surely that balances out?

@Relentless.5678

To some point maybe. But not when you got friends waiting for you, or when you need a bank because you have been playing tetris with your inventory for the past hours, or several other things that are more fun/important than traveling to them

It is antisocial.

What I mean by that is that a guild member tells me they are struggling to get to a certain vista I have already completed. Instead of trying to explain to him I could quickly travel to the nearest WP and show him – that’s just me being friendly. In order to do that though there is a cost of up to 8silver porting there and then porting back to where I was.

Free waypoint travel would make the game much more sociable. It should not cost to be helpful/friendly.

I can only repeat myself: You get enough money to pay for travelling easily – even when you play with friends etc.

I don’t think free travelling will happen. The economy depends on the travelling costs, it is a calculated money sink. Also, it sometimes makes you walk 5 minutes instead of fast traveling, which I personally think gives the world a nicer touch.

Your right, I forgot teleporting around the map to focus on doing the things we want while spending a minimum amount of time wasting time running was a convenience we payed for in GW1. Oh wait. It wasn’t.

That’s because in the original they pioneered some amazing ideas like “Hey, travel should be free so players can do what they want when they want to.” Sad to see that these ideas have now been lost.

If the cost is truly insignificant, then why not just remove it and rely on the bigger gold sinks like legendary weapons?

Relentless.5678:

Way-pointing is a luxury. Like owning a helicopter.

I find it more immersive to just run everywhere and take asura gates when possible. It definitely drives home the size of the world, and reminds you of the possibilities for fun-making.

Yes, it takes more time to run from place to place, but it’s not frivolous like the OP posted. It’s actually fun. Frivolous is using the way-point system almost exclusively for travel. Now THAT’S frivolous.

You are welcome to run everywhere if you like to. There’s no reason everyone should have to. You do it because you like it, not because you feel forced, right?

What economy? the one you dungeon speed runners 100% mat selling jokers have invented or the one that actual exists and is on shaky ground at best
I’m not seeing the point to build the economy from Trade because it doesn’t make that much
I also have ENOUGH of a moneysink already with crafting since making boxes or whipping up something edible pretty much Mugs me