Guild Wars 2

Dying should not be punished so much (in terms of silver) so I think the nearest waypoint should be free if you have died

discuss

Waypoints cost too much period, dead is already punished by armor damage so it’s an unnecessary inconvenience on top of that.

Shinzan.2908:

Waypoints cost too much period, dead is already punished by armor damage so it’s an unnecessary inconvenience on top of that.

^^^ this

armor repair and waypoint costs is a bit overkill.

They’re a necessary gold sink.

Really guys? Death isn’t punished nearly as much in GW2 than in many other games.

Even the point in dying is to take note that you A) are not good enough with your character, B) you’re in areas that are way out of your league, C) you aggroed too many enemies at once, etc… To die is to LEARN something and do it differently next time. If death wouldn’t be penalized at all, anyone could make progress just by dying from one enemy to the next untill all were dead. And I’m pretty sure that’s what neither you nor the game developers consider ‘fun’.

I think that the cost should stay where it is or even be increased.

I think the cost should be kept. both for teleporting to waypoints and repairing armor.
In most cases, it should sting a little when you die.

gurugeorge.9857:

They’re a necessary gold sink.

How so?
I failed my economics 101, care to explain why it’s necessary to keep it?
Is everyone making a fortune if we take out the waypoint costs?

The cost is ridiculous, consider that at level 80, going to a waypoint to join an event costs more than what the event reward is. Joining friends in far away areas or helping people on map with events shouldn’t be punished.

Waypoint travel cost needs to go, repair costs are fine so they can stay as the only deterrent to dying.

I don’t really see the costs as an issue at all, though yeah it costs just about as much or so, to teleport to around where an event is, then you pretty much just get the silver back, all I can say to that really is simply don’t teleport down there then.

Shouldn’t the game encourage people to group and meet up though? If the response is just don’t go then that hurts the community.

They are pretty ridiculous, especially when running into mobs that keep 1 shotting you it actually made me skip a lot of events because I didn’t want to keep wasting money.

Scale Waypoint charges with distance travelled rather than distance travelled and levels obtained and I’d be in favour of both a modest increase in cost and retaining the charge for dead characters.

Ceacliod.3786:

Really guys? Death isn’t punished nearly as much in GW2 than in many other games.

Even the point in dying is to take note that you A) are not good enough with your character, you’re in areas that are way out of your league, C) you aggroed too many enemies at once, etc… To die is to LEARN something and do it differently next time. If death wouldn’t be penalized at all, anyone could make progress just by dying from one enemy to the next untill all were dead. And I’m pretty sure that’s what neither you nor the game developers consider ‘fun’.

I think that the cost should stay where it is or even be increased.

I think this is an excellent suggestion if you want people to get frustrated and burn out quickly.

Waypoint cost in general is too high, having to waypoint upon death across the map because the closest waypoints are contested – and thereby having an additional tax on the tax is asinine and falls past the ‘is this fun?’ category fully into the ‘this is BS!’ category.

Victory via attrition is more or less the order of the day in dungeons and no, it’s not fun.

It’s fine the way it is.

Bring back downlevelling and experience loss!

That sorted the men from the boys!

My suggestion was only to remove or reduce the cost of the nearest waypoint when you are dead.

ref.8196:

Dying should not be punished so much (in terms of silver) so I think the nearest waypoint should be free if you have died

discuss

Dear OP… The death penalty is largely laughable. Ok so you lose a little money.

Would you rather this game reinstate the old “corpse run”? I don’t know how old of a player you are, but I used to hate having to run back out into the world to find where I died, so I could loot my own corpse. In SWG it was even worse because I was naked (underwear), so everyone knew I had died. Talk about the walk of shame.

RizziVanizzi.1532:

gurugeorge.9857:

They’re a necessary gold sink.

How so?
I failed my economics 101, care to explain why it’s necessary to keep it?
Is everyone making a fortune if we take out the waypoint costs?

Because you can trade real money for gems, gems for gold and gold for gems.

The value of gold needs to remain high in order for the gems to have any value.

If people have endless amounts of gold then the trade value of gems will plummet and screw up all the gem store values.

By having the large money sinks, gold remains valuable and keeps the gold/gem economy stable.

Bel Geode.8129:

ref.8196:

Dying should not be punished so much (in terms of silver) so I think the nearest waypoint should be free if you have died

discuss

Dear OP… The death penalty is largely laughable. Ok so you lose a little money.

Would you rather this game reinstate the old “corpse run”? I don’t know how old of a player you are, but I used to hate having to run back out into the world to find where I died, so I could loot my own corpse. In SWG it was even worse because I was naked (underwear), so everyone knew I had died. Talk about the walk of shame.

I would rather have a D2 style corpse run.

I think WP costs should be valid if you go OUTSIDE the current zone
but for popping around the current zone no Not really
Either this or reduce costs of the blasted things globally due to the fact as is the costs outweigh the benefits

Waypoints inside towns should cost nothing, I shouldnt have to pay to move from town to town.

Mid zone travel should cost money

I think the cost is fine ATM. At level 60 it costs maybe a silver to save about 5 minutes of walking. One may make that money back in less than a minute of fighting. Repair… I dunno, does it cost more for epic items to repaired than crappy blues? Repair makes the game more dynamic and stops it from just being a “grind this area over and over” thing.

As was mentioned above, using waypoints, instead of graveyards, is much more convenient, gives much more freedom, and is a method that makes sense! Furthermore, you need not take the WPs. You could sit around and wait for someone to rez you.

Having said that, little tweaks may improve this system even more and they may come up with an even better system eventually. But the way things are right now sits very well with me.

In response to WPs and repairing being a gold sink, I don’t think that’s necessary as we have gem purchases for that already, as well as the gold lost through the TP and the gold spent in WvW.

Oh, and for those of you who think it’s too expensive or are otherwise upset about the cost, try making a few money saving modifications to the way you play. For example, it’s rarely cost effective to sell equipment on the TP! There are soooo many items up on the TP being sold slightly above the cost of vendering them. So once you’ve paid the posting fee then have the 10% taken off what you made from the sale, you’ve gotten less than you would have gotten from vendoring the item! Hell, there are even some items (I’ve only found this in low-level items) that one may buy from the TP, salvage, then sell the mats on the TP for a profit!

Also, don’t salvage every bit of crappy equipment you get. Wood is rarely worth much on the TP and I’ve actually only found level 1-15 or so gear to actually potentially be worth more in salvaged goods than selling at the vender.

If we apply more thought to our play, most players, I think, will save more than they are paying on WPing their way around the world.

Here is a quote from Jon Peters a while back on how they viewed death penalties in GW2 http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/07/08/to-live-and-die-in-tyria-death-healing-and-combat-in-guild/

“If no one revives you, you can spend a small amount of gold to come back at a waypoint. It’s as simple as that, and why not? Why should we debuff you, take away experience, or make you run around for five minutes as a ghost instead of letting you actually play the game? We couldn’t think of a reason. Well, we did actually think of a reason—it just wasn’t a good one. Death penalties make death in-game a more tense experience. It just isn’t fun. We want to get you back into the action (fun) as quickly as possible. Defeat is the penalty; we don’t have to penalize you a second time.”

Now the game is live we get penalized THREE times.

1. Cost of Armor repairs
2. Cost of Way point travel
3. Reduction in downed state health, so we have less time to recover each time

I wonder what changed?

Shanaeri Rynale.6897:

Here is a quote from Jon Peters a while back on how they viewed death penalties in GW2 http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/07/08/to-live-and-die-in-tyria-death-healing-and-combat-in-guild/

“If no one revives you, you can spend a small amount of gold to come back at a waypoint. It’s as simple as that, and why not? Why should we debuff you, take away experience, or make you run around for five minutes as a ghost instead of letting you actually play the game? We couldn’t think of a reason. Well, we did actually think of a reason—it just wasn’t a good one. Death penalties make death in-game a more tense experience. It just isn’t fun. We want to get you back into the action (fun) as quickly as possible. Defeat is the penalty; we don’t have to penalize you a second time.”

Now the game is live we get penalized THREE times.

1. Cost of Armor repairs
2. Cost of Way point travel
3. Reduction in downed state health, so we have less time to recover each time

I wonder what changed?

Hopefully it’s just a matter of gathering more feedback and data – the current system is flawed.

The system appears to be designed in such a way that would assume you are never soloing content, but rather in a group at all times. And for players that play that way, there won’t be an issue.

But for anyone soloing, or working through the less populated areas – it’s an unfun scenario when it occurs.

Pants.8315:

RizziVanizzi.1532:

gurugeorge.9857:

They’re a necessary gold sink.

How so?
I failed my economics 101, care to explain why it’s necessary to keep it?
Is everyone making a fortune if we take out the waypoint costs?

Because you can trade real money for gems, gems for gold and gold for gems.

The value of gold needs to remain high in order for the gems to have any value.

If people have endless amounts of gold then the trade value of gems will plummet and screw up all the gem store values.

By having the large money sinks, gold remains valuable and keeps the gold/gem economy stable.

I find this logical.

To put a finer point on this, look at what happened to Spain when they had a massive influx of gold.
It’s economy crumbled and has taken centuries to recover to the point it’s currently arrived.
In other words, too much gold causes devaluation causes weakened economy causes economic collapse.

But, there is nothing to say that the prices cannot be lowered a bit for regular use as opposed to resurrection use.
After all, the wages of life after death should hurt a bit.

Venator.5780:

Shanaeri Rynale.6897:

Here is a quote from Jon Peters a while back on how they viewed death penalties in GW2 http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/07/08/to-live-and-die-in-tyria-death-healing-and-combat-in-guild/

“If no one revives you, you can spend a small amount of gold to come back at a waypoint. It’s as simple as that, and why not? Why should we debuff you, take away experience, or make you run around for five minutes as a ghost instead of letting you actually play the game? We couldn’t think of a reason. Well, we did actually think of a reason—it just wasn’t a good one. Death penalties make death in-game a more tense experience. It just isn’t fun. We want to get you back into the action (fun) as quickly as possible. Defeat is the penalty; we don’t have to penalize you a second time.”

Now the game is live we get penalized THREE times.

1. Cost of Armor repairs
2. Cost of Way point travel
3. Reduction in downed state health, so we have less time to recover each time

I wonder what changed?

Hopefully it’s just a matter of gathering more feedback and data – the current system is flawed.

The system appears to be designed in such a way that would assume you are never soloing content, but rather in a group at all times. And for players that play that way, there won’t be an issue.

But for anyone soloing, or working through the less populated areas – it’s an unfun scenario when it occurs.

It’s meant to be un-fun. You just lost. If you’re not feeling penalised in some way then what’s so great about winning? The only time I find the system particularly annoying is when I die for a stupid reason, like a mob pushes me back and I go flying off of a cliff to my death, or the mobs respawn in 30 seconds and I get mobbed by mobs and have no chance at escape (though I need to learn to turn around and RUN more often).

It’s easy to make back the money lost on repairs and using WPs. Takes only a few minutes if you just grind some mobs down. As an elementalist, I suspect that I have the most difficult class to solo with, and so I die a lot. Yet with a few exceptions, I feel I always had the chance to either win the fight or to get away with my hide intact. So I take it as a learning experience and improve. The small penalty combined with a mostly challenging and doable game results in a very satisfying experience.

If you really don’t want to ever have to pay for WPs, then wait to be revived. Stay in common areas. Or just find yourself a friend. There are plenty of people out there. Or you could stick with WvW where waypoints are free. If you don’t want to repair your armour, try replacing it! If you die only a few times a level, you should be able to find replacements quite easily.

You’ve got many options to get around the very small penalties applied to you upon death. Feel free to use them.

Bel Geode.8129:

ref.8196:

Dying should not be punished so much (in terms of silver) so I think the nearest waypoint should be free if you have died

discuss

Dear OP… The death penalty is largely laughable. Ok so you lose a little money.

Would you rather this game reinstate the old “corpse run”? I don’t know how old of a player you are, but I used to hate having to run back out into the world to find where I died, so I could loot my own corpse. In SWG it was even worse because I was naked (underwear), so everyone knew I had died. Talk about the walk of shame.

I did not mention any corpse run, I was just saying at the moment we already get penalized for dying, in the form of armor repair (which is a silly system anyway) so why should there be 2 gold sinks?

And why are people still talking about normal waypointing, I’m just talking about the cost for the nearest one when you die…

Khono.6942:

Venator.5780:

Shanaeri Rynale.6897:

Here is a quote from Jon Peters a while back on how they viewed death penalties in GW2 http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/07/08/to-live-and-die-in-tyria-death-healing-and-combat-in-guild/

“If no one revives you, you can spend a small amount of gold to come back at a waypoint. It’s as simple as that, and why not? Why should we debuff you, take away experience, or make you run around for five minutes as a ghost instead of letting you actually play the game? We couldn’t think of a reason. Well, we did actually think of a reason—it just wasn’t a good one. Death penalties make death in-game a more tense experience. It just isn’t fun. We want to get you back into the action (fun) as quickly as possible. Defeat is the penalty; we don’t have to penalize you a second time.”

Now the game is live we get penalized THREE times.

1. Cost of Armor repairs
2. Cost of Way point travel
3. Reduction in downed state health, so we have less time to recover each time

I wonder what changed?

Hopefully it’s just a matter of gathering more feedback and data – the current system is flawed.

The system appears to be designed in such a way that would assume you are never soloing content, but rather in a group at all times. And for players that play that way, there won’t be an issue.

But for anyone soloing, or working through the less populated areas – it’s an unfun scenario when it occurs.

It’s meant to be un-fun. You just lost. If you’re not feeling penalised in some way then what’s so great about winning? The only time I find the system particularly annoying is when I die for a stupid reason, like a mob pushes me back and I go flying off of a cliff to my death, or the mobs respawn in 30 seconds and I get mobbed by mobs and have no chance at escape (though I need to learn to turn around and RUN more often).

It’s easy to make back the money lost on repairs and using WPs. Takes only a few minutes if you just grind some mobs down. As an elementalist, I suspect that I have the most difficult class to solo with, and so I die a lot. Yet with a few exceptions, I feel I always had the chance to either win the fight or to get away with my hide intact. So I take it as a learning experience and improve. The small penalty combined with a mostly challenging and doable game results in a very satisfying experience.

If you really don’t want to ever have to pay for WPs, then wait to be revived. Stay in common areas. Or just find yourself a friend. There are plenty of people out there. Or you could stick with WvW where waypoints are free. If you don’t want to repair your armour, try replacing it! If you die only a few times a level, you should be able to find replacements quite easily.

You’ve got many options to get around the very small penalties applied to you upon death. Feel free to use them.

I’m reading a bunch of work arounds that don’t address the root of the problem.

Yes, I could do any one of these things – and the amount of silver I’ve lost to WP’ing around is surely still less than a single Gold. However, it stands apart as something that doesn’t fit into the flow of the game, as an unnecessary tax on something that’s taxed to begin with.

As for waiting to be revived, most of the higher zones (short of Orr) aren’t that well travelled, and if I’m waiting for a random stranger I’m not playing.

What it boils down to is this: it’s currently an inconvenience. If the amount of inconvenience in the game surpasses the amount of fun, it becomes a moot point and you won’t have to worry about reading my posts.

I found I was getting careless at level 80 and spending way too much on travelling, reviving at waypoints and mending gear.

In the last few days I’ve been a lot more careful when running around in PvE, and tried really hard not to die a lot. And I’ve stopped using waypoints to zip everywhere. I’ve actually been enjoying the challenge of keeping my costs down.

The way the game is at the moment, waypoints are a luxury/emergency assistance point, not a mode of transportaion.

Venator I 100% agree!
I am the sort of player that loves to explore. I like to craft and play a slower game.
I like to run around looking at things and taking in the stunning game that GW2 is,
but…
I like to go back to base to craft and use the bank. This cost silver lots of it!
I like to farm, then craft, so being out and about then having to wp home is expensive, well run I hear you say…then you have just given a reason to have MOUNTS!
As for me spending 30 mins running and fighting my way to a crafting station is not great fun for me.
I got up to 2 gold buy selling stuff and leveling yay, but to only do some farming and crafting and waypointing and look at my inventory to see it is now 98 silver wtf!

They have said this game offers varied experiences for all. Not all want to pvp, not all want to fight constant mobs all the time, they have said some like to explore and enjoy crafting…well you are punishing us:(