WvW World Completion
I can sympathize with the problem, especially with regards to the technical limitations of one’s computer. I’ve had good luck with my PC handling most of WvW, but it’s still pretty choppy compared to the rest of the game, and I have to turn down some graphical settings when I go in there. I hate to say it, though, but GW2 is a pretty high-end game, with regards to graphics in an MMO. ArenaNet has tried to optimize the engine so that it can run on a variety of systems, but sometimes they have to make tough decisions with regards to how much they continue to limit their tech to include everyone. They can’t just say “Okay, this entire aspect of PvP doesn’t count anymore, because x% of players don’t have the hardware to run it.”
With regards to game mechanics and territories in WvW coming and going, that’s just how it works. World Completion wasn’t designed with the intention that anyone can just go in right now and grab all the points of interest. You may never totally own any particular map, but across a span of time your server will capture different places. The server borderlands rotate and the exploration achievement is part of the incentive for people to keep checking back, and help out if they really want to expand.
The system is even designed so that if your server performs poorly, you’re pitted against other servers with similar success rates. I find it hard to believe that it’s always someone else who dominates the map. My server is one of the worst in WvW, and I polished off the Eternal Borderlands recently. Somebody told me that it’s more difficult for top-performing servers to capture territories, which doesn’t sound rational to me. Somebody has to own something — how do you get to be a “top-performing server” without ever winning any battles?
As long as you aren’t on a server that always ends on the same place you do not need to transfer. Borderlands as well as position on Eternal are assigned based on ranking-position in your Match. (see http://mos.millenium.org/matchups )
First is green with green BL as home and the South-West area on Eternal
Second is blue with blue BL and South-East area on Eternal
Third is red with red BL and North area on Eternal.
Ceterum censeo SFR esse delendam!
I was trying to work WvW between Blackgate, Sanctum of Rall, and Isle of Janthir. In the 2 months that I was attempting this none of the borderlands ever changed. I was on Isle of Janthir and Blackgate constantly owned most of the Eternal Battlegrounds and good portions of the other borderlands.
I don’t know how things are now, because after I finished it on my first character I decided it was smarter to just stick with my other characters doing Tyria first, but it seems things have changed a little bit. I can see my world is in battle, and is being completely clobbered, with the lead world having 10x the amount of points as us.
(edited by Narcemus.1348)
The way I see it, if I can’t see it when I hit M it’s not part of the “World” and shouldn’t count towards “World” Completion.
I’d be fine with the WvW maps having completion stuff (POIs, Vistas, and so on), as long as they weren’t required in the totals for world completion, meaning for any one you got there was one less you had to get on the actual map.
Now before you jump on that and point out that having a World Completion achievement that doesn’t actually require getting every single thing makes no sense, remember that we have that right now. With the addition of Southsun Cove all of the points on that map count towards World Completion but weren’t actually added to the total number of each thing required (meaning that for the time being each Waypoint/POI there means one less you have to get elsewhere, unless that’s changed really recently). I believe the reasoning for this was the question “What if I’ve already finished 100%, do I lose that?” And I think they handled that pretty well.
Now, WvW maps have a lot more in the way of Waypoints and such so that exact approach might not work.
My solution would work like this. Instead of calling it the 100% World Completion achievement, it would be called the Tyrian Exploration achievement (no mention of 100% you’ll notice).
This achievement would function exactly as the 100% one does now, giving the Gift of Exploration (see that even fits better), but instead of requiring 100% it would require a set number of each thing, X Waypoints, Y Vistas, Z POIs, and so on. The totals required would be achievable without entering WvW maps (or possibly just a few points there), but the points earned in WvW would count towards the totals so WvW players aren’t shorted, and those who aren’t interested don’t have to take up space just trying to get completion (really, every time you sit in a queue, which isn’t all the time sure but I hear about them plenty enough, just wonder how many people are just there for a few waypoints or POI and don’t actually care about WvW, because for every one of us there’s someone who would actually be trying to help your server do better not there).
I understand they want to get people into WvW, but dragging me there doesn’t encourage me to stay and help out. Getting dragged somewhere I don’t want to be just makes me want to be done and gone. If on the other hand it was set up as I suggest, if I were to reach, say, 98 percent on a zone, and I either can’t find or can’t get to a couple last things (maybe a skill point in a dredge cave or something), I might go, “you know what, this is stupid, I’ve died half a dozen times trying to get this point, I could just hop over to a WvW map for a while and make up the difference.”
Then I’m on the WvW map on my own terms and I don’t feel like I’ve been dragged there or forced there (I am an extremely stubborn person by nature), and since I’m there by my choice I’m much more likely to stick around and get involved with whatever is going on instead of doing a hit and run on the waypoints/POIs.
Since plenty of people really like the idea of 100%ing things I’d still have a 100% Map Completion achievement as well, it just wouldn’t be the one giving the Gift of Exploration, but some other reward and would have it’s own title. (speaking of titles I figure the Exploration and 100% would represent 2 tiers of exploration, Call the first one Tyrian Explorer (yes, even if you can substitute some WvW stuff) and the second World Explorer. This would be similar to the cartography titles from GW1, which had several tiers of titles.
“The short answer is that new content is not going to drive people away from the game.
There is absolutely no evidence to support that it would.” -AnthonyOrdon
There is absolutely no evidence to support that it would.” -AnthonyOrdon
ArenaNet, ScribeTheMad and some other make some excellent points… I’d like to make my own suggestion, even though I won’t be around even if you do take my advice.
I played the original Guild Wars. I even had the Legendary Defender of Ascalon title on more than one character. I love the exploration aspects of the game. I was pretty excited when Guild Wars 2 came out. I even bought copies of it as a gift for some friends of mine.
I tried all the character classes, before finally settling on Elementalist as the class I wanted to finish the game with. I’ve played a lot of MMOs in my day, but Guild Wars 2 was something unique. In the PvE environment, you weren’t in competition with the other players – it was actually to your benefit to help them. Finally, a game that wasn’t solely about who had the best gear, or which class was the best one, or whose dad could beat up someone’s dad. A game where you were encouraged to be decent to other people. I like helping other people – I’m fairly sure combat medic is the first title I got in the game.
Being someone who likes to explore everything, I liked the challenge of getting the Map Completion, up until I realized that the numbers weren’t adding up. Maybe they open up the Ring of Fire or the Crystal Desert once you finish everything else, as a bonus, I thought.
Nope… those final POIs, Vistas, and Skill points are on WvWvW.
You know, I realize that ANet has some programmers who put a lot of work into coding the WvWvW environment. They’re proud of their work and want to show it off, I can appreciate that. I wish that they would appreciate the fact that some people absolutely hate everything about PvP.
Oh, I know. “QQ.” “If you want those last few POIs, Vistas, and Skill points, you should help go out there and conquer for your server.” “It’s part of the world! You can’t have ‘almost’ completion.” All arguments that I’ve read on here over the past few days from people who love PvP.
“Try it, you’ll like it.” Well, no, I won’t. It’s a ridiculous argument. I have tried PvP before, and I did not enjoy it. As great as you may think WvWvW is from within the ANet bubble, you haven’t discovered the magical secret that is going to make everyone love PvP content. The same people who are really grateful when you help them rally after getting blindsided by a veteran mob in the PvE environment are the ones who will be quick to jump on one dude with all his gear stowed, no weapons equipped, and who waves to try to make it clear that they aren’t hostile. For the last 10% of the Been There, Done That achievement , you’re forced into a style of play that is the exact opposite of the other 90% of the game. It’s like Spock with a beard – it’s familiar enough to be recognizable, but you’re not happy with it.
So, my character is at 97% world completion and there he will stay. I’m on THE lowest ranked server so we’re not going to be anything but the red team, making this impossible without changing servers. Even then, it would just be taking the spot away from someone who does want to PvP – and that is not me. So, I’ve gone as far as I can with the character, and I’m OK with that. I probably would have gone into WvWvW briefly at some point even without the POIs being there. I wouldn’t have stayed because it isn’t my thing and I don’t like the attempt to force people who don’t have an interest in PvP to “try it, you’ll like it.”
These two aspects of the game should be kept seperate – just like the campaign and multiplayer modes in a console game. Mixing the two up is fine for a lot of people out there, but for others, you’ll end up losing customers. You just lost me.
Just get in there, run round, do what you need to do, and get out. You don’t have to get involved… just run fast.
“my character is at 97% world completion” – they’ve not experienced WvW, so 97% is enough.
It doesn’t work that way… Skill Points, Vistas, and POIs are located inside the keeps on the borderlands (or whatever the kitten they’re called) and the main castle in the Eternal Battleground, and being on the single lowest ranked server, we aren’t ever going to control that. I’ve spent the past several days trying to “run fast” and get as many of the POIs, skill points, and vistas in WvWvW as possible. The end result is not that I’ve magically come to love WvWvW like ArenaNet seems to think should happen. Quite the opposite – I’ve come to dislike Guild Wars 2 in general.
As a WvW only player I find it ridiculous that I have to do 35+ PvE maps to get the same thing. I think you PvE players are far ahead.
AR
I agree with Ibryant, WvW inclusion in the world completion does not serve its intended purpose, whatever it was supposed to be. I did not come to like WvW at all, just running around being chased by players from much larger servers and getting frustrated that I cannot get inside keeps. It’s obvious that people on large servers have an advantage, and people on small servers have a much harder time doing world completion, which is so unfair it’s ridiculous. And after world transfers will cost money on the 28th, having WvW included in world comp. will seem like a way to scam money out of players for world transfers.
This whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Just remove WvW maps from world completion (and put them into a separate achievement if you want to). The system, as is, is broken and very unfair.
It still doesn’t help when servers never change, computers can’t render fast enough, and in the end all you get is fed up with a game that you originally loved. And I’m growing to love it again as I play other characters, but I am absolutely dreading that day that I try to get my second or third character to 100%, especially without the ability to switch servers. It becomes a lose/lose. Either shell out $75 to switch back and forth between the 3 servers or pay hundreds to get a better computer and hope your server’s worth something. I don’t think they should be requiring players to spend that much RL cash in order to 100% their characters.
I love WVW and I still find it stupid that it’s required for completion. Anyone that’s WVW’d for awhile understands that some matches never change and certain points will always be held by 1 side. They either need to take the wvw points out of world completion or randomize the color of each side, each week.
I also hit my head on enough WvWvW castle walls by now to get irritated enough with the game to post a suggestion on this forum.
My main WvWvW gripe is that the points simply aren’t accessible for my kind of player (explorer) on a server with a low population. If those points of interest would move outside the gate of fortresses and keeps (and vistas would be accessible without having access to closed-down structures), it would really help.
(edited by Qickpostman.7913)