Guild Wars 2

Seeing many threads about this subject already, I decided to share how I would tackle this problem. First off, what is WvW? Server vs server or realm vs realm, meaning it’s a game mode where a large group of people takes part in a 1 week competition against 2 other groups. This in itself would justify zerging. But wait! This is Guild Wars 2. A game that claims to be about guild group play. Obviously the fact that Arenanet hasn’t included GvG as a game mode in this game indicates that they wanted WvW to replace or improve that aspect of the game. Therefore WvW should allow zerging but should encourage small group play. At the moment this works the other way around. Zerging is being enforced, while group play has zero benefits. I understand that people who play WvW for PvP (player versus player) are considered the hardcore players which is usually only a vocal minority and therefore are ignored by developers who pay their bills from the money of PvE players.
Fact of the matter is zerging could be solved by typing in a couple of lines of text in one of those game files.

Here’s how I think zerging could be discouraged:

• In combat:
• A new outmanned buff should be introduced. This should take into consideration the amount of players in a fight, rather than an area. This buff would not give you any direct bonuses, but would change a few mechanics.
• Players affected by the outmanned buff should receive a 10% boon duration increase.
• Moving a large group in real life is difficult, therefore players who outman a group in a fight will get a minor moving speed decrease.
• Regeneration boon will be stackable for up to 2 stacks under the effect of the outmaned buff. This will double the effectiveness of the boon IF stacked.
• Might boon will be stackable for up to 35 stacks while under the effect of the outmanned buff. When 35 stacks of might gets stolen via a skill by an enemy player that is not outmanned it will convert to 25 stacks but the +10% duration will affect it still.
• Protection boon will also be stackable for up to 2 stacks. Both protection and regeneration can be stolen via skill, but it will only remove 1 stack and copy that on the enemy player.
• The duration of stability boon will be increased by an extra 10%.

• Downed state:
  (My reason to change this is simply because of the effectiveness of power ressers.)
• Once you get downed you can either be ressed ot rallied. (Same as before)
• 1 person reviving an ally would be 50% as effective as current.
• 2 people reviving will be 70% as effective as 1 person doing it now.
• In general: 1st person: 50% 2nd: 25% 3rd: 12.5%
• Fully dead players should only be revived by players out of combat.
• Rally mechanic only rallies 1 person per death. Mobs will not rally and the persob that rallies is picked, taking into account his cutrent health in downed state and damage done to the player that dies.
• Downed sickness applies to players who rallied or got revived.
• Downed sickness applies weakness and poison which can not be removed and last for 30 seconds. Players who rally and not get revived will also gain cripple for 10 seconds which can not be removed but does not stack with regular cripple.
• The downed penalty still applies.

• WXP:
• The amount of WXP earned from kills scales depending on the amount of players in the fight.
• In a fight between 40 players where each side has 20 players the WXP will be rewarded with the formula: WXP = standard wxp x your team’s numbers / enemy numbers, so 1/1 which will earn 100% wxp for each kill.
• 10v30: each of the 10 players will receive wxp in 3/1 ratio because of their numbers meaning they get 3 times as much wxp es normal. Similarly if the enemy team gets a kill they earn 1/3 of the regular wxp.
• Finally: WXP should be convertible to badges, as none of the rewards actually promotes combat.

• Badges:
• Make ascended items available in WvW via badges.
• Create an infusion for ascended items that gives +1% damage against or taken from invaders(defensive and offensive slot respectively) This will create a healthy gap between pve and wvw players.
• Give WvW’ers special looking armor and weapons. There are PvE exclusive items so why shouldn’t there be WvW ones?
• Make it so lootbags reward more badges to outmanned teams.

This is a list of my ideas in a nutshell. Feel free to add yours too here.

hmm what about the outmanned buff in your own bl, would automatically buff the guards and building siege costs less supply or something like that(1 player alone in a tower has to run 2-3 times to build an ac, which the zerg can destroy instantly wit aoes)?

First of all, zerging isn’t a “problem” that needs to be “fixed”. Among other things, it’s a place for the people who don’t play every day to be able to play and be comfortable. It’s also the only way to root a zerg out of a tower or keep. They’re here to stay.

Small man groups already have an advantage over zergs: superior communication, teamwork, everything but… numbers. Many small man groups pride themselves on “zergbusting”; it can be done. If you want to really counter a zerg, you’re left with two choices: avoid the zerg, or join the zerg.

Busting the blob is easy. Once you kill them over and over, they tend to break up into smaller groups or just leave the zone. There is only so much a zerg can take being wiped repeatedly by half their number.

I’m so tired of hearing about zerging.

take 20 guys. Learn how to fight. Wipe groups larger than yourself and enjoy the loot.

Yeah, why should players be rewarded for not being able to pick fights…I don’t get that aspect at all. You have an approximate equal number of people on map, whose fault is it if you’re getting “zerged”?

Also 15 people killing 20 is possibly skill and luck… 5 people killing 20 is probably something wrong with the game.

It seems a lot of people don’t really want to fix zergs but to reward their own… giving small groups superpowers would encourage some more people to run 5-man.. it would also encourage everybody else to run with the zerg for safety…. it basically eliminates the “medium size” group and splitting up… right? You’re doing the opposite of what you claim you want to do, IMO…

15 beating 20 is close enough in numbers that even small things can tip the balance one way or another, let alone skill differences.

15 beating 40 on the other hand doesn’t mean something is wrong with the game given both sides can have access to the same classes and abilities. Simply put, the 15 out played the 40. Nothing wrong with that.

I do not agree. I think it shows that something is too effective if you can beat over double your numbers in a fight…unless there is some other mitigating factors.

Everybody might have access to the “same things”… but not everybody wants to or can play the same way. Some people want to form up an elite 5-man with perfect combination of classes… some people want to pug up in the zerg. The advantages given to the former should not be so overwhelming as the latter group feels like fodder…and when things get to the point where the 5-man can kill 3 or more times their numbers regularly I think that problem point has been reached.

I don’t believe combat in this game is even complex enough for people to “outplay” others at a level they can kill many times their number, to be perfectly honest. To me it just says they’ve chosen classes and builds to work as a team and got in voice chat…. and I don’t think anybody really deserves a medal for it or superpowers, just an advantage.

Zosk.5609:

I do not agree. I think it shows that something is too effective if you can beat over double your numbers in a fight…unless there is some other mitigating factors.

Everybody might have access to the “same things”… but not everybody wants to or can play the same way. Some people want to form up an elite 5-man with perfect combination of classes… some people want to pug up in the zerg. The advantages given to the former should not be so overwhelming as the latter group feels like fodder…and when things get to the point where the 5-man can kill 3 or more times their numbers regularly I think that problem point has been reached.

I don’t believe combat in this game is even complex enough for people to “outplay” others at a level they can kill many times their number, to be perfectly honest. To me it just says they’ve chosen classes and builds to work as a team and got in voice chat…. and I don’t think anybody really deserves a medal for it or superpowers, just an advantage.

Why are you not giving credit where credit is due? If 5 guys figure out how best to build their classes/group specs based off one another, why are you saying its the games fault they can win against 10-15? How about they are just better communicators, better focused, and better players because of that? You dont want to admit that because it makes the 15 feel inferior…….welcome to player vs player, theres ALWAYS someone better!

Zosk.5609:

I don’t believe combat in this game is even complex enough for people to “outplay” others at a level they can kill many times their number, to be perfectly honest.

You underestimate just how terrible some people are at this game. Especially your average zerger (not all zergers).

Keyboard turners. Skill clicking with mouse. Panic when fighting 1v1. Many people have admitted to these things on this very forum. While this is just a game and that is nothing to be ashamed of, it is still very telling as to why sometimes 15 can beat 30, 5 can beat 10, 1 can beat 3.

Zosk.5609:

I do not agree. I think it shows that something is too effective if you can beat over double your numbers in a fight…unless there is some other mitigating factors.

Everybody might have access to the “same things”… but not everybody wants to or can play the same way. Some people want to form up an elite 5-man with perfect combination of classes… some people want to pug up in the zerg. The advantages given to the former should not be so overwhelming as the latter group feels like fodder…and when things get to the point where the 5-man can kill 3 or more times their numbers regularly I think that problem point has been reached.

I don’t believe combat in this game is even complex enough for people to “outplay” others at a level they can kill many times their number, to be perfectly honest. To me it just says they’ve chosen classes and builds to work as a team and got in voice chat…. and I don’t think anybody really deserves a medal for it or superpowers, just an advantage.

Part of ‘out playing’ is having superior tactics, communication, and synergy compared to your opponents. This is an MMO…..

It is a not a flaw in game design when 15 wipe 40 and both sides have equal access. Yes this game isn’t as complex as others, I agree… but there is a pretty serious flaw in the logic of your response.

Zerging is not a problem.

Zerging never has been a problem.

Zerging is just people gathering in a large group to play. Strength in numbers + social play.

Leave the game alone. People zerg because they like to zerg. If zerging were somehow eliminated, WvW attendance numbers would plummet.

One zerg blob cycling a map repeatedly taking and abandoning objectives isn’t nearly as fun as several smaller teams across the map taking and holding different objectives.

Zergs will never be eliminated, because they feel safe. It’d be nice if there were more incentives to be more strategic, however.

Loving how admins removed this from WvW thread when this has a lot more to do with WvW than thieves being nerfed or someone’s sad experience with hackers. Suggestions thread = we know and do not care.
Anyways if you actually read the topic I haven’t included anything that would discourage zerging directly but would reward players who don’t. 50% of people who zerg do it simply because it’s the only rewarding way of playing this game.

Blob Wars 2… suggestion thread… faith lost.

They already wrecked one way to bust the blob the WvW confusion nerf

One simple change that’ll end zerging; remove the 5 target cap from offensive AoE skills. If bunching up didn’t guarantee safety in AoE (wtf Anet?) people wouldn’t blob up like they do.

It is actually too much,but it is helpful.
But Arenanet won’t listen to it

Stop whining about things being unfair.

This is wvw, an all out war. Sorry your server’s “army” is smaller and uncoordinated but that’s your problem. I’ve seen small groups push back zergs time and time again with good strats. I’ve also seen zergs decimate unorganized roamers. It’s just part of the game.

If you want a false sense of fairness or balance or feel you need to be protected by rules, go play Spvp or something.
WvW is where the big boys play.

Reinforcments.5713:

Stop whining about things being unfair.

This is wvw, an all out war. Sorry your server’s “army” is smaller and uncoordinated but that’s your problem. I’ve seen small groups push back zergs time and time again with good strats. I’ve also seen zergs decimate unorganized roamers. It’s just part of the game.

If you want a false sense of fairness or balance or feel you need to be protected by rules, go play Spvp or something.
WvW is where the big boys play.

Big boys hide behind their mommies (the zerg) while the little kids (roaming groups) slap them silly. Call yourself a big boy all you want but in the end of the day my 8 man roaming team will not be able to defeat 50 people however good our tactics may be. Why? AoE limit. So if you give disadvantages to small groups by default why not give advantages to them too? I know for a fact that AoE limit will never be removed, as much as I’d like to hammer stun a grouped up blob of 70 people that will never happen.

Shame they designed this game for “big boys”. Go ask your parents for more gems meanwhile.

DanyK.3842:

Reinforcments.5713:

Stop whining about things being unfair.

This is wvw, an all out war. Sorry your server’s “army” is smaller and uncoordinated but that’s your problem. I’ve seen small groups push back zergs time and time again with good strats. I’ve also seen zergs decimate unorganized roamers. It’s just part of the game.

If you want a false sense of fairness or balance or feel you need to be protected by rules, go play Spvp or something.
WvW is where the big boys play.

Big boys hide behind their mommies (the zerg) while the little kids (roaming groups) slap them silly. Call yourself a big boy all you want but in the end of the day my 8 man roaming team will not be able to defeat 50 people however good our tactics may be. Why? AoE limit. So if you give disadvantages to small groups by default why not give advantages to them too? I know for a fact that AoE limit will never be removed, as much as I’d like to hammer stun a grouped up blob of 70 people that will never happen.

Shame they designed this game for “big boys”. Go ask your parents for more gems meanwhile.

Wow, what scrub tier do you play on where zergs are being destroyed by an 8-man?

Pitiful…

I have to say i agree with DanyK to a 100% and the people that dont are surely playing on the dominating servers. i must say that i got VERY sad when i join WvW for the first time becous of the zergs. I didnt find it fun at all to be honest. when i go to war and serv my server i dont want to stand still with 20-30 more players and spam out spells! i want to fight not stack! so i think this is something this game really needs. good thread DanyK! thank you.

Skilled small groups have a advantage on a zerg already.

If one player dies, you can rally your downed small roaming party member instantly. If you can’t stomp anyone, then you are terrible at busting zergs.

@Redscope you really should read more carefully before you respond and look foolish, he said his 8 man will NEVER defeat a 50 man…..your mistake and bad response, not his.

runeblade.7514:

Skilled small groups have a advantage on a zerg already.

If one player dies, you can rally your downed small roaming party member instantly. If you can’t stomp anyone, then you are terrible at busting zergs.

As for this, wth are you talking about? How the hell do you think you’re going to rally a fallen member if your group is half the size of the enemy and they’re in your midst killing you? Great, your group of 10 has 3 people who can stomp, their group of 20 probably has at least 6. Your comment makes no sense. Sure, as a Guardian I have a signet that can instantly rez 1 member, and I don’t ever get to decided which really, it just does the closest ally. Can I run over towards the guy I want rezzed? Sure, if he’s in my group and I know what blue dot is his, but if he’s not in my part, nope, gotta try and find him in the sea of red.

Yes, small groups can take on larger groups and win, but it’s the exception, not the rule. If it were the rule, we’d see more smaller groups and fewer large zergs. The evidence that the larger zergs have the advantage more often than not is the continued existence of the large zergs. In open field combat I agree that the larger force should generally have the advantage and only superior tactics and movement by smaller force should prove the counter to the large group. However, I feel that large zergs attacking a fortification should be at a disadvantage simply because they are attacking a defensive fortification. Instead it’s more often like a trip to the outdoor market. Even fully upgraded guards aren’t even a speed bump, same with reinforced doors.

The WvW ranking was one of the worst additions. It put in almost completely useless skills and an agenda to simply flip fortifications and not hold anything for personal ranking gains. And yes I said almost completely useless skills, normal ram does 8k damage, fully upgraded siege might(5% increase) 8400 at the cost of 70 points, Mercenary’s Bane(shivers) that’s a good one, 5% more damage to the quaggans…kill them now with no bonuses, Siege Bunker 5% damage decrease once maxed, Normal AC hits for about 1200 now when I fire it so…wow, I would only take 11kittenage from someone else firing it at me all for the price of 18 points and let’s not forget supply capacity, 5 more supply for the low cost of 300 points…….

Adding to the argument: when you enter a fight where more than 35 opponents partake the skill lag will only allow you to use skill 1 every couple of seconds if you’re lucky.
Arenanet should make a new class called zergling that’s instantly lvl80 and has the best berserker gear. This class should have 1 skill only that’s an aoe ability much like staff autoattack for guardians, only it also heals 5 allies it hits. This should make zerg fights more interesting. Also people wouldn’t cry about other classes being op and their other skills not working in fights. This would emphasise the point of WvW which is: numbers win!
Don’t get me wrong, my point is not thar zerg fights are not the most amazing part of this game, but it is broken and should be discouraged. You can have all the coordination, best builds and skills and still die to a blob because of the lag. Anyone who disaggrees is probably on the other side of the fight spamming number 1 thinking: “oh wow we totally owned this guild group. They are so bad they didn’t even attack. /dance”

Gratz to you.

I think

It’s better to make zergs clearly visible on the map at all times, not just during a fight

tweak the numbers: range, number of people considered a zerg, that kind of thing

This will force the zerg to split in order to stay hidden

Raestloz.7134:

I think

It’s better to make zergs clearly visible on the map at all times, not just during a fight

tweak the numbers: range, number of people considered a zerg, that kind of thing

This will force the zerg to split in order to stay hidden

good idea! if you mean that if it is lets say 10 players running together nothing happens and if like 25 player do it some kind of marker will appear on the map?

Dodforer.2470:

@Redscope you really should read more carefully before you respond and look foolish, he said his 8 man will NEVER defeat a 50 man…..your mistake and bad response, not his.

Here is a secret to killing a 50 man group with 8 man.

Let say that your 8 man group is very efficient at wiping 10 players at a time. Well, 50 man is really too much for the job. But what if we break the fights down?

Instead of 8 v 50, it can be 8 v 10 then 8 v 10 then 8 v 10 then 8 v 10 and finally 8 v 10. 5 small battles to chip away the 50 man zerg.

Split and divide the zerg. Scatter the zerg.

How can you make it a 8 v 10? Well, that is up for you to decide. Use environmental positioning, Use crowd control, use mobility, or something that I could never think of.

If you can’t split the zerg, then obviously the 50 man zerg is an organized guild.

Really, to be a game called “Guild Wars”, is only logical that the guilds should be able to fight between themselves…