Guild Wars 2

WvWvW Buffs

I was thinking about play in wvwvw and the steep prefomance/stat buff for wvw and ways to soften the blow of not having a night/morning crew.

1.Make PvE objectives in wvwvw the only means to gain a large amounts of exp for wvwvw buffs
2.Add one grand wvwvw boss spawn once a week at random on a random borderlands that would grant a large amount of exp and a one hour buff that allows you to hold 15 or 20 supply.
3.Remove the robust buff in exchange for somthing like build/repair speed or efficiency

I believe these steps will allow pvers to have fun in wvwvw and really help there server at the same time.

Siege
The most important thing in my mind is the way sieges work. Most of the time you just run in and sack a tower or keep with lil resistance. Here are some suggestions.

1. Health of gates, walls, doylaks, lords. guards, and siege raised
2.raise the number and speed of doylaks from supply camps
3.lower the effect of wall repair and posably amount of supply carried by doylaks

With these changes it will leave time for reaction and make sieges a real cost. With this no full map would likly be taken as even a supply camp would take some effort to take. Matches would be won by a tower or two and lower the desperation from night capping since a small force would be able to hold there area within reason.

Orbs
With the rest of these changes it would also be nice to see the orb buffs raised but spawn randomly once a day or every few days and allow a hour buff and must be set on the alter to activate said hour buff.

This would allow a chance for rampage/zerg play and not kill the other teams morale knowing that they might be able to get a few orbs tomarrow for a game changer.

My hopes are that the synergy of these changes will make the game more enjoyable for everyone. Allow guilds to hold towers and keeps they claim along with making it a more strategic play style. Thank you for your time I hope you have enjoyed this thread.

Was it fun? Yes/No

A possable change that could be made perhaps is make the orb a drop from the random spawn world boss mentioned above.

If it had enough life a teams could assult it head on, try to wipe the other teams trying to kill the boss or wait till one team kills it then kill the group and take the orb.

I just want more keep upgrades:D even though we are in the bottom, I would like to reclaim a keep and totally fortify it xD

Somthing else that could be added is a debuff to players that attack players in spawn lets call it Wrath of god (My favorite card in magic) that causes a burn that can not be cured or -50% dmg and healing for an hour.

Spawn farming is a tactic most of us use to solidify our positions on the maps but it is really bad for the game as a whole.

Another option would be to lower the player caps in wvwvw. It would hopfully allow better loading, require allot of the players to change servers and making no real point to have large meta alliances like TA. It would also lower night time and day time forces needed to compete. Hopfully it would squish the fail zerg play that goes on now and make the walls and doors scale properly.

I want LESS PVE in my WvW maps, not more. No more mobs, no bosses, no more metal/wood. The jumping puzzle is good enough because it actually incentivates PVP.

WvW buffs by the high score would only make the winning server even more powerful. So I’ll have to say no to that idea as well.

What we need is more incentives for the teams with the lowest scores. I would say raise health of walls/doors for the teams with the lowest scores. Increase the amount of badges of honor they get so they can get more siege. Remove the repair costs in PVP so the undermanned team have more motivation to go out and fight (even if they get steam rolled). We would need to remove item drops in this case to curb income in WvW.

Anyway, I would not like more PVE objectives in WvW. I would actually like less. Less random mobs (they get in the way), less mines/trees, etc. People should go there to PVP, not PVE…

There are two sides to the PVE in WvW argument, but those who are against it refuse to understand who is on the other side. And ironically, those who are against PVE in WvW think its because they are hardcore and they want more focus on the actual score and what they perceive as the battle itself.

I am here today to play the devils advocate for those who are in favor of the PVE elements in World v. World.

I will be the voice, of those who have none.

Misconceptions:
M1. WvW players who want PVE, dont want to PVP in WvW.
Please remember, I don’t speak for everyone. I am speaking for myself, and maybe a few others.
A1. Nothing could be further from the truth. Unlike the “complainers” who blame the failure of their server on “jumping puzzles, centaurs, and Kraits” I come from a purely PVP background. I don’t come from the hand holding version of PVP. The one where you have “uncontested zones, town guards, and sanctuaries.” On the contrary, I fully believe that while I am leveling, I should be encountering enemy players for skirmishes. Whether its in space while I am transporting ore, or in a mythical forest while I am looking for a pile of gold in a hidden dungeon. I personally believe that the MMO genre has purposely removed this sense of “consequence” and “element” of danger from the majority of games at the cries of consumers. And when you look at those tears, its because people don’t know who to blame so they say come in and nerf everything until everything becomes a spoon fed candymachine (pez dispenser) of epics and rewards. So in a nuttshell, I’d much rather level my character in an environment that also has pvp. And that doesnt always mean sitting on a ballista staring at the same bridge every night pushing #2.

2. Removal of the PVE element in WvW will help those servers who are presently sucking to increase their scores/ranking after this element has been removed.
A2. Same ol stuff, the minute your server is losing in a match, the tears go straight to 1.) Blame anyone typing in team chat 2.) blame anyone with a blue icon 3.) blame anyone on map who is doing something that isn’t what you are doing aka jumping puzzles and centaurs 4.) Blame Obama 5.) Blame Bush

3. PVE elements- mobs/npcs, are what causes the lag in WvW
A3. Incorrect. Its the textures, detail, and quantity of players (server math) being done in one area. The fact that the DOlyak has 3 npc escorts has nothing to do with the 80 players who converged near him.

4. That because its a World v World zone, that it means its designed solely for a specific type of pvp that “said” complainer feels is the appropriate type of pvp.
A4. Nothing could be further from the truth. The jumping puzzles, Centaurs, Kraits, events, sentries, and the like are all specifically placed into WvW so that when 1-5 people want to do something without being part of “the zerg” it doesnt eliminate them from partaking in the game. It was the designers specific intent to not penalize people for not having large guilds or large groups that they are forced to play with.

Why do I personally like the PVE elements?
1. I love the fact that there are jumping puzzles in World v. World. Jumping puzzles should be challenging, and having to pvp in the middle of one should be exhilarating. That’s why people go crazy when they get killed, and immediately run to the forums crying. “Griefing…” Seriously… its a pvp game. Its called pvp. Its only called griefing to those who are looking for the pez dispenser, and while reaching for it they drop their pacifier and go into a fit. Same with setting up siege outside of spawn. There are three ways out of spawn.. why are you spoon feeding your opponent kills at one exit. Thats not griefing, its called your own stupidity in your choice of routes if you don’t play WvW with the expectation of pvp.

2. Weather nodes: OMG, this is so money, and so many people don’t even realize it. I am not going to explain it, because I rather the uninformed stayed that way.

3. Sentries: fantastic, same with all NPC camps and their relation to how they impact supply. All clever, don’t even touch.

4. Centaurs, wild life, mining, gathering, general npc mobs: I already covered the simple fact that I would rather level my character, with the chance of being in PVP, than go in the regular PVE world. To me the entire PVE world of the game is for huge KITTENS and RPr’s. But I feel it necessary to explain it further to those who don’t full grasp it.
A. If you take a level 80 and go play with friends in a level 20 zone, the items/loot dont scale. Yes if I was 79, I could go get experience with a friend.. but that clearly doesnt make any logical sense. When you are level 75 you can play with a level 1 friend killing centaurs- and all loot, gold, exp, kharma are scaled accordingly. Its 100% win win for both guys. Move forward.
B. If you like to play with one friend because everything is balanced out.. what happens if you have 10 good friends, well you might all end up there. Guess what happens then? The TTK (Time to kill) shoots up, and now all of a sudden you have an extremely efficient area to play with your friends in term of level and etc.

C. Last but not least, people paid for the game, same as everyone else. If they want to go juggle a bag of KITTENS in the corner, whose business is it to everyone else? If I want to go build 35 trebs and then claim a hill and call it Altamont Pass, who are you to say you don’t approve of what I do?

Kal I don’t think your grasping the article as a whole. Also the buff for the high score is how it is ran now. What was proposed above is that it be dictated by pve objectives on the maps. At times it would pull forces of teams to work to a higher buff % allong with making Defence and pve a viable strat to build an advantage for the rest of the week.
I am not a PvEer i spent the first two weeks in structured then lved to 80 in wvwvw so this thread is biased in no way.

The thread though divided to make it a easier to read was a synergistic vision.

The comments afterword were just ideas that followed.

Italia I like your comments though a few are a lil harsh
The server I am on we already have an established PvP community such as TA and AA so a loss or getting spawn camped happens some times but we know its just a part of the game. The issue I can see on other servers is not being able to establish there communities it creates a snow ball effect of desparity that will really hurt the game and gaming as a whole.

I don’t really care who is in first second or third my concern is balance. I would like to see the small factions out there compete with the servers with already established communities.

You could argue that these factions have put in more time and effort and that is why we/they are winning but thats not the case at all it is all psychology through our use of metagame and a small amount of organization we have created a higherarchy within the game that is not valid nor healthy for any involved. The matches are dictated by presence since matches are won and loss at such extreams it kills morale and players are lost.

Night capping is a real problem but I belive that increasing the difficulty of siege should provent it Or possably you could make the cap limit fluid so that the cap is set by the lowest pressence on the map

This game is the best I have seen in a long time while all the other companies are selling out Anet still takes pride in what they do and they have done well.

Edit: some spelling errors
2nd edit I was ignorant to the fact that there were no asian/assie servers so the thot of region locking can not be done there are better ways anyway.

No, I read it fine. You want to affect the WvW bonuses, which is fine, since they affect PVE and not the other way around. Then you want to add a PVE objetive that affects those bonuses… That’s not too bad, other than adding a random spawning mob that gives large bonuses, so it all falls on luck (it spawns close to my server mob, so we got it)… Do not like it, but I could probably live with it.

Then you want the PVE mob in the PVP map (the one that is based pretty much on luck) to give large WvW bonuses (like carrying more supplies per player, or faster building speed). There is a large problem.

So we have a PVE objective in a PVP map, that you want PVErs coming into that map (taking the place if PVPers of course, since space is limited), to kill a random spawning mob, that will grant large bonuses to PVP? PVErs going after a PVE objective taking the spot of PVPers in a PVP map is definitely not the way to go around it.

I understand wanting to increase the PVE bonus that WvW gives. I would not mind if those big bosses spawned randomly on regular Tyria, and you could go after them, and they improve the WvW bonuses (not the score, just the crafting/gathering, etc, bonuses). That way, PVErs can help their server as well (through PVE) withouit affecting, or taking limited spots in the PVP map.

Keep PVE in PVE maps, and PVP in PVP maps. It’s fine if PVErs want to help with the world bonuses, but they should not do it in PVP maps with limited player capacity.

What I had thot of when I wrote it (maybe I did not explain clearly) I was thinking it would spawn in the lake just at random time on a random borderlands so it would be a race to see who could get there first once its map icon was seen. The thot of exchanging pvers for pvpers is silly it has a large stratigic bonus so the assult team would head there. Also causeing teams at siege to think about what they choose to do the supply buff less so than if it droped the orb.

The bonuses from the boss would be wvw only so it should not effect the amount of pvers that are in wvw.

Edit: and not just who gets there first the boss should have enough hp that opposing forces have time to get there aswell to assult at the same time,wipe out the other team or let them kill the boss then take the orb.

After looking over what was writen here i think the orb is the only real choice

Speaking on PvE topic or relating to PvP i would like More upgrade on everything i think upgrade for most part they are useless. Currently like say you get more guards for your supply depo so let say fully upgrade. how many players does it take to take down supply line fully upgraded 2 players if you control all 3 orb 1 player can solo it on top of taking someone from other side.

when i say more upgrade what am i implying i want more guards. i want stronger guard if i have a fully upgraded. i want ai feel like there ripping us apart if we don’t work together. that way it give reason to buy these upgrade currently i only buy the upgrade to protect the Yak on it travel line because AI randomly attack the yak that only use i have for upgrade.

let say we are attacking the garrison we currently max have level 82 elite i would like upgrade on the bases to be like to go step farther go to 82 champions archer and guard making them do Massive dmg give reason to fear attacking a main base currently the way it is you just run up aoe them down there not even noticeable. Another upgrade i would like if “worker” are doing nothing i want them to pick up seige weapons like cannon and motor and start shooting them if they see the other team is close enough to are base.

again on the topic i think orb should be changed to something more like if you control 1 = +50 all stat
control 2 = 5% max hp
control 3 = 5% boom duration
but the way it sits they are way to over power in my view.

Somthing that might make everyone happy is making 2 brackets weekend wvwvw games and mon-fri wvwvw games.

Since alot of the servers can’t be on all week it would give both the dedicated teams somthing to build tword and give the normal player that has to work all week a war they can compete in.

WvWvW has been incredibly successful in GW2, however there are several changes I would very much appreciate, along with some additions I believe will make it better.

The Maps

The maps, while very good, get incredibly boring after a while. I would like to see new maps in the future, jungles, swamps, mountains, cities… The present maps I believe seem boring. You have some cliffs, then huge tracks of flat snowy land that is boring to look at after a while. It is too easy to traverse, and makes traveling seem much longer than it really is. Have you ever been in a long car ride? It feels like that. I hate snow. I refuse to play norn now becuase of this. The lake in the center is just a giant hole filled with Krait. Where are thesunken ships? The Towers of slaves? The maps are just so flat and bland the only excitement is in a zerg, becuase there is color… not some giant expanse of lifeless snow..

Another issue I find is the lack of life in keeps, towers, etc. Why am I defending here exactly? Theres no people, no life, no real reason other than for some random points that pop up. I would like to see more npcs, they dont have to attack. They just need to be there to add to the immersion and “why am I even here?”.

The Mechanics and Siege

So far, the basic functions have been great, with the exception of some balancing. It is confusing to get into WvWvW at first, and I would like to see a future tutorial for newer people. However there is one problem that kind of erks me: the simple knocking down of the door. I hate that. It is boring most of the time, and you often dont even face any real competition from the defenders. I have an idea to fix that: add more npc defense to the keeps (this would also help in the lfieless problem I said above), and give the attackers more siege.

Steps and Ladders

One type of siege I’ve thought up are ladders, or even wall siege.Basically, they allow for the transport of people over the wall. They would be very expensive, allow only a small amount of people in at a time, and would have to be placed right by the wall, where it is mrope easily created. These would help greatly in the siege of walled places, and add another layer of fun to the game, instead of everyone centering themselves around the door. The gate wouldn’t have to be open to do this.

Walls

Another seige weapon for the offensive people can be walls. They would be relatively weak, cheap, but would take a small amount fo time to set up. This would help greatly in the event a group of people have set up 10000 arrow carts on the walls of a keep, the walls would “block” the siege and allow players to hide behind it. One limit however is that they can not be placed right next to each other, and can be passed though by anyone. This would allow for much more organized play, and add to the immersion of WvWvW sieging.

Server Pride

I don’t know the name of my server. I don’t care. I may be the onyl one, but I feel no server pride. Quite frankly this should be changed all together, and I propose something completely new to this:

Alliance and Guild pride Pride

This would be much better. Guild would be able to cap and “flag” as normal keeps and towers. However, “Allaince Flags” would be on the StoneMist Castle. The point of this is to feel proe for your community, whether or not your in a guild or not. Putting mroe focus on Guilds and Alliances would allow for more organized competition, and more pride for your sevrer overall. Adding some small “shows” would greatly increase pride, such as fireworks spelling out alliance names over Stonemist Castle, NPC conversations about the score at that moment… such as “It seems insert server name here isnt doing to good…” or “The Alliance insert name here has captured the castle! I am beggining to think we will lose this fight…”. NPC parties within the castles would insue daily on capture, opening up chances to buy crafting materials, holiday stuff, etc. to whoever controls the castle at that moment. All these changes would be rather small, simple implementations and woudl drastically affect how I (and I am sure other people) would feel about the things they fight for.

Edit: Also make the games longer for politics sake. Maybe up to a month. I have yet to play 2 weeks yet as we have not reached that point, but I expect it to be to short.

This is my idea, I posted it on MMORPG.com.

I really like the walls idea for those times another team is trying to back door you you could slow them down with a wall at the risk of cutting off your own teamates.

edit: but that could be fixed with one mesmer inside

check this out this guys has a good idea https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Server-Peace-Treaty/first#post268588

Somthing i would like to see also is random matchups again i don’t like fighting the same people over and over. If you have the random cycles it will put a end to any possible long standing truces that could arise

So, I liked PvE but didnt really like PvP. BUT, I LOVE WvW. I didn’t really like PvP because it just felt like you were just getting into a closed ring match and just duked it out. Some people like that. I didn’t. I liked PvE because I felt like I was doing stuff, having challenges that weren’t just “Best-at-beating-the-everliving-crap-out-of-someone”. But I also like competition. And I also like not only being able to do stuff, but having that stuff have an effect, and possibly matter. Which is why I love WvW. I get that competition I lacked in PvE, yet I’m not in a closed ring fighting. Yes, I can join the zerg if I want to, or I can go with a couple of buddies and cap camps. Either way, its helping to have an effect. Heck, even just running supplies or being a forward scout hiding in the hills, notifying the rest of your team of enemy movements! All of that to me is great, its fantastic.

I think that we shouldn’t necessarily add MORE PvE stuff to WvW, but I do believe we definitely SHOULD NOT REMOVE the PvE stuff already in there. I do believe that certain things could use some adjusting (agree with the more HELPFUL upgrades). I also wouldn’t mind having siege ladders or towers as described earlier. They would be have to be higher risk than current siege equipment, but at the same time be able to yield higher reward (say you get on the walls via ladders, and there is a switch somewhere inside that will open a gate. This switch would have to be HEAVILY guarded, but if you flip it, gates open up for x seconds before closing again. Or maybe they have to be closed manually by defending team. Also, include this switch only for outer gates of keeps, outer gates of SM Castle, and regular gates of tower). The ladders could be either a limited number of people can climb it before it “collapses” or be used by however many people want to use it, but extremely weak. Or a mix of both (each person who attempts to climb it deals damage to it as they climb). I’d also say that the person who finishes building it immediately gets to the top of the wall (so that it has at least some use).

So maybe, example for ladder – 30 supply
Climb to top of enemy walls. Person who finishes building immediately gets to top of wall. Ladder takes 1/3 damage anytime a person successfully uses it to get to the top of a wall (This means at most 3 people can get to the top of the wall with a single ladder – connection to the 30 supply). Ladder can also take damage like all other siege equipment. So it might be the case that a ladder is built, it gets 1 guy to the top of the wall but then gets hit by a ballista. Others cant follow and guy on top gets massacred. But what if a lot of people attempt at once? Then you have to coordinate to have almost identical finishing times so that you dont get picked off by ones, maybe some ladders won’t be immediately destroyed and a 2nd or 3rd person may be able to come up as well. But remember, all this while under enemy fire. So, it could easily change the tide of a siege and speed it up a bunch, but could also take a lot of resources and like any other siege piece. Like I said, high risk, high reward.

(Sorry about this post going from “this is why I love WvW and nothing should be removed” to “I LOVE LADDERS!” I promise that was not the original intention when I started typing. It just sort of happened.)

TL;DR: Don’t remove PvE elements from WvW. Adding some stuff may be ok, but not sure. Add another depth of siege which could be considered like adding to PvP. I LvOe LdAderS! (Implementation of siege ladders to assaulting fortified positions).

Cheers!

Ladders would make it a capping race and make walls pointless. I am trying to bring balance not break the game. It is already too easy to cap as it is and this would not help with night capping it would make it worse.

I have been jumping around to diff wvwvw posts if you guys have some good ideas feel free to post here