Guild Wars 2

1. When you complete a heart, it becomes blue and you can complete it again once a day for a “heart token”. With a lot of those tokens, you can check a trader and buy exclusive rewards such as skins/minis/black lion keys/legendary components/ascended components/skill points/karma/money…

2. When you complete an event, you get 1 “event token”. When you complete one that you have never completed before, you get 3. With those tokens, you can get even more rewards that with hearts tokens.

See? Players rush hearts all across the game everyday and seek constantly new events. That’s what I call:
Replayability.

But…but…Hearts are boring, and doing that would force people to do it, making it a grind, and ANet promised there wouldn’t be a grind.

Ahem

I suggested something similar to this a while back as part of a Rep system for each area (alongside event completion), in which you can lower the cost of Waypoints depending on rank.

Maybe have it as a Monthly criteria, where you have to redo, say 50 Hearts.

Personnally, I don’t mind hearts. They’re improved quests.

I don’t understand why you wouldn’t love complete those of the starting areas again? I do it all the time with my rerolls.

But I said events tokens should be more rewarding than hearts ones. Simply because events are not grind. That way, you can seek events and avoid being bored on the way by doing hearts.

Also, there are 301 hearts. Enough for you to change everyday. Put a limit to like 50 per day and:
1. Nerds won’t get all the rewards in one day.
2. Casuals will have a chance to catch up too.
3. Rewards will only be accessible in a minimum of days (ex: 20 days for a legendary component worth 1000 tokens).

I prefer this than fractals… Or just doing nothing and leaving.

Sounds like a decent idea couldn’t be worse than running the same dungeons xx to the exponent n times,

Keiran.1896:

Personnally, I don’t mind hearts. They’re improved quests.

I don’t understand why you wouldn’t love complete those of the starting areas again? I do it all the time with my rerolls.

I was being sarcastic. You know they’d be the most common complaints

Personally I think it’s a good idea

I definately would like to have some more incentive to return to the beautiful earlier areas. Not sure if I like this solution, but I’d definately like a reason to run around in Queensdale again.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Keiran.1896:

Personnally, I don’t mind hearts. They’re improved quests.

I don’t understand why you wouldn’t love complete those of the starting areas again? I do it all the time with my rerolls.

I was being sarcastic. You know they’d be the most common complaints

Personally I think it’s a good idea

Lol sorry I was like Sheldon reading this xD didn’t see sarcasm

How about a Heart Link system?

We have the zone completion, but how about after all hearts in a zone are completed, you gain access to special vendors in LA that increase their goods the more links you get. Think about it like flight points in wow, where you have to connect them all up to use them. In the same respect, you need to connect all the hearts up to make their vendor items appear in LA too (like supply chains).

The more you connect the bigger the discount on the items. The amount of times I have missed a karma vendor with a huge upgrade, only to notice it way after passing its level.

I do like the idea of having zone rep and repeatable hearts though.

Keiran.1896:

1. When you complete a heart, it becomes blue and you can complete it again once a day for a “heart token”. With a lot of those tokens, you can check a trader and buy exclusive rewards such as skins/minis/black lion keys/legendary components/ascended components/skill points/karma/money…

2. When you complete an event, you get 1 “event token”. When you complete one that you have never completed before, you get 3. With those tokens, you can get even more rewards that with hearts tokens.

See? Players rush hearts all across the game everyday and seek constantly new events. That’s what I call:
Replayability.

This would actually be brilliant. I love making new toons as it is, but to be rewarded for enjoying the content over again? I would be ecstatic! It would be a great way to get the veterans involved with the new players, in doing so, probably increase the social aspect of the game. +1 for this.

Instead of tokens couldn’t they just make Karma more useful? Such as Tier 2 and 3 racial items having a Karma cost option instead of just gold.

I also think maybe they should allow someone who’s completed an area 100% to maybe have free waypoint travel.

Best thing I could think of is bring back GW1 features. Elite skill capturing, and rare weapon skin chances on major world bosses/events. Not just a chance to get a precursor. Items that would only be found on that boss/event.

Ed of Death.4819:

Instead of tokens couldn’t they just make Karma more useful? Such as Tier 2 and 3 racial items having a Karma cost option instead of just gold.

I also think maybe they should allow someone who’s completed an area 100% to maybe have free waypoint travel.

Best thing I could think of is bring back GW1 features. Elite skill capturing, and rare weapon skin chances on major world bosses/events. Not just a chance to get a precursor. Items that would only be found on that boss/event.

Free Waypoint -> They will never accept, it’s a gold sink to sell more gold.

Hearts do not give karma, yet if you want a good replayability they should be apart of it, they’re a big part of the progression in the game.

Elite skill capturing… no. Rare weapon skin… myea but player would just take the skin they like and then stop. There’s no HoM or skin collection in GW2.

IMO they really need a HoM or/and housing, that way they could easily reward canvas/trophies/skins sets with such tokens. And players would be happy to run after those.

Please… this makes so much sense considering these systems allready exist (dungeons, fractals, WvW etc) just not in open world PvE.

Tokens could be related to the heart/quest though, so escort quests give Lionguard tokens. And spread the rewards vendors out over the world for varity. Champions and event bosses should give special tokens that can be traded for really special rewards, like runes of divinity (account bound if necessary).

It isn’t adding grind, it’s adding re-playability and a defined rewards system outside of RNG and generic silver/karma for completing a quest/heart.

Keiran.1896:

1. When you complete a heart, it becomes blue and you can complete it again once a day for a “heart token”. With a lot of those tokens, you can check a trader and buy exclusive rewards such as skins/minis/black lion keys/legendary components/ascended components/skill points/karma/money…

I doubt that will ever happen for black lion keys and minis – they have to keep some things “store exclusive” to generate some income for the game.

I don’t really see “doing the same content over and over again” as “replayability”. That’s more like a grind. Replayability, to me, is more when you can level alts doing as much different content as possible.

Keiran.1896:

\
Elite skill capturing… no. Rare weapon skin… myea but player would just take the skin they like and then stop. There’s no HoM or skin collection in GW2.

Not if they could be sold on the trading post. People spent years farming VS, silverwings and froggy’s in GW1 even though they had acquired them.

By the way, +1 on the great idea.

Asuka Shikinami.5462:

Please… this makes so much sense considering these systems allready exist (dungeons, fractals, WvW etc) just not in open world PvE.

Tokens could be related to the heart/quest though, so escort quests give Lionguard tokens. And spread the rewards vendors out over the world for varity. Champions and event bosses should give special tokens that can be traded for really special rewards, like runes of divinity (account bound if necessary).

It isn’t adding grind, it’s adding re-playability and a defined rewards system outside of RNG and generic silver/karma for completing a quest/heart.

Nice idea for champions. Let’s replace all tokens by one token : Hero Token.

1 heart replay ; 1 hero token.
1 event ; 2 hero tokens.
1 event you have never done before ; 6 hero tokens (ignores maximum per day).
1 champion killed ; 10 hero tokens (ignores maximum per day).

Max per day ; 100 tokens.

Rewards examples ;
20 tokens = 1 skill point.
3000 tokens = A piece of legendary armor.
4000 tokens = 1 precursor.

A such system would need to be polished / improved / better thought but this is the general idea of how I’d imagine it.

Just to add. I am all for any additions to any MMo that don’t involve level cap stacking. IF a company wants to flesh out the journey, then go for it, but when they only add content to the end of the journey, I lose interest.

Giving me more things to do while I level would be great. Zone reputation, Player Housing, NPC reputations etc etc etc, all great, and can be equally enjoyed by those who want to sit at the cap and complain there is nothing to do.

I personally hate hearts, which is why I was so glad in CS there were none. >_> Also, you’d have to consider that different hearts are easier to do than others, and I guarantee some will be farmed the hell out of it just because it’s easy to do. Add in the trouble with downleveling, and you could be looking at lvl 80’s clogging up metrica province for an easy heart reward.

penatbater.4710:

I personally hate hearts, which is why I was so glad in CS there were none. >_> Also, you’d have to consider that different hearts are easier to do than others, and I guarantee some will be farmed the hell out of it just because it’s easy to do. Add in the trouble with downleveling, and you could be looking at lvl 80’s clogging up metrica province for an easy heart reward.

Then make easier hearts offer lower tier rewards. Simples.

Bastion.2457:

Then make easier hearts offer lower tier rewards. Simples.

Or make it so hearts do not reset daily but reset once you’ve done them all :p

Such a sad state of mind.

More rewards, more rewards, more rewards!
And if you’re inevitably done with them?

Then we’ll have even more rewards!

Naqaj.6219:

Such a sad state of mind.

More rewards, more rewards, more rewards!
And if you’re inevitably done with them?

Then we’ll have even more rewards!

Yes, it’s how gamers work. Even if they enjoy/love a game they need rewards to play them. WoW understands it and puts such tokens everywhere for mounts/minis. A way to keep busy those who don’t like repetitive dungeons. And it works.

Naqaj.6219:

Such a sad state of mind.

More rewards, more rewards, more rewards!
And if you’re inevitably done with them?

Then we’ll have even more rewards!

Um I don’t mean to be rude here, but games basic core functions are to reward the player. Whether it be by giving them new areas to explore, scores to beat, special endings, achievements, new gear, weapons, items, more gold etc etc etc, a game is designed to reward you.

You put in time, and get an experience as a reward, in whatever way the game chooses to give that experience to you.

You are in the wrong place, and exploring the wrong hobby if you don’t know this.

Bastion.2457:

Um I don’t mean to be rude here, but games basic core functions are to reward the player. Whether it be by giving them new areas to explore, scores to beat, special endings, achievements, new gear, weapons, items, more gold etc etc etc, a game is designed to reward you.

You put in time, and get an experience as a reward, in whatever way the game chooses to give that experience to you.

You are in the wrong place, and exploring the wrong hobby if you don’t know this.

If you define rewards that broadly, of course. I meant it in the more narrow way of “grinding items, gear, tokens, useless stuff to hoard”, a reward scheme that is inevitably finite, and therefore ill suited for an MMO.

As opposed to what they started (but haven’t expanded on enough yet) with events and meta events, that provide an ongoing reward scheme that is based on individual player experiences, mini narratives, and incorporation of player actions into the world.

TL;DR: Grind is the worst kind of replayability. Ask for better replayability, this game actually has the means to provide it.

Revitalization of the surface world is desperately needed. Despite ANet’s claim there is next to no incentive for playing on the surface world. Fractals and Dungeons are so much more profitable than events that it’s not even funny. Doing a complete Arah event chain yields you what? 50 silver, including mob drops? In the same time you can make 2-3 gold in a Fractal. Or 10 by not leaving LA at all and just playing the TP, but that’s a different matter altogether…

Giving people a reason to go back on the surface is a great idea. GW2 has mostly become a lobby game these days – people hang in LA and look for instances groups. And I don’t think that’s what either ANet or the players really want.

I love those ideas actually. It would be nice. There’s this new system I’ve heard about in the elephant in the room that uses farming as a means to gain reputation, to achieve their dailies with great rewards, and it’s quite fun from what I’ve heard. One can actually buy the farm and use it as their hearthstone location to teleport to for free, and they can fullfill the orders from factions to gain reputation for rewards.

This is something i miss, it gave me a pve open world player something to do (reputation earning) did in other game titles and the rewards were really nice. LOTRO had this and did it the best ways so it would be less of a grind.

I would love replayability on the hearts that could be normally repeatables like gathering or saving allies from enemy kidnappers, or gathering berries from dangerous bushes….all of those would be nice to be able to repeat for rewards from the vendors or even new karma stuff like cosmetics or the parts to make exotic gear like T6 items. I think that would be the best thing to add to the game the ability to buy T6 items with karma from vendors, it would eliminate the RNG problems.

Honestly, I love the idea. As a bonus they could have “zone of the day” that would reward double rewards or even a gem store gem for every heart completed and try to push players into the areas that have very little player activity. (Excluding level 75+ areas)

Op needs a job at ArenaNet. That idea is simple and brilliant. I love it!

I see a problem with redoing hearts. I was doing Metrica Province and Caldeon Forest zone completion yesterday on my main (level 80 warrior) and she was beyond overpowered; she did 1,500 damage AoE with Hundred Blades, completing any “heart” that accepts mob slaying in like 2 minutes. If Arenanet puts daily heart achievements, everyone is going to take a portal to a 1-15 zone and do the same low-level hearts while it’s the mid-level zones that are empty.

I think a better idea to promote world exploration would be to put mini-pets or prestige armors(*) and have each set involve a grind in mid-level to high-level zones. (Different zones for different items.) There could be a hidden karma vendor in each zone that sells you items based on your reputation in that zone, and at high reputation they could sell you patterns and mats to craft level 80 prestige armor and mini-pets. You could raise your reputation by completing events at level 80. (With group events giving a lot more because it sucks for low levels being alone versus champions.)

(*) Prestige armors in Guild Wars 1 were redesigns of classic armor skins, but they could look more heroic, meaner, skimpier, etc. but in all cases they looked a lot better than the original and required a lot of gold to create. In GW1 they were just as good as other max-level armors, although in GW2 they should probably be ascended since they’d take more work to get than regular exotic and the devs said that the point of ascended tier was that exotics were too easy to obtain and they needed an additional tier before legendary.

TheDaiBish.9735:

But…but…Hearts are boring, and doing that would force people to do it, making it a grind, and ANet promised there wouldn’t be a grind.

I know you were being sarcastic, but to be fair, it would be a grind.

It’d just be a grind that is a hell of a lot more varied and fun than the grinds that already exist in the game.

So honestly I like the idea. Gives me more motivation to play with my high level characters when playing with friends, too.

I like the idea of being about to redo heart quests for different rewards. After you finish map completion and your personal story the game is severely lacking in short term tasks.

Though if heart quests were made repeatable, it should be harder than the first time around – similar to Zaishen quests in GW1. If I remember correctly, Zaishen quests were daily rotating quests where you had to Kill X creature, redo X quest or redo X mission on hard mode for extra rewards.

I also have thought about replayability, and thought a daily meta-event participation achievement would be awesome. It would have a separate panel in the achievements tab, which would track you participation in each step of the meta event up to completion. Successful participation in each step (not necessarily in order from beginning to end, as long as you participate in each step) would result in a reward dolled out in a manner similar to dailies or monthlies. Great way to get people back out in the open world.

Bump.

Colin Johanson posted this on another thread:

ColinJohanson.2394:

We are however working on expanding reward systems to make them more re-rewarding across all parts of the game, making the open world more rewarding, and adding new ways you can earn precursors as rewards via new reward systems taking advantage of our open persistent world.

Makes me think to our token system so they might have had a similar idea anyway Colin says it will cover the open world so I’m excited!

I would really rather spend my time in the open world, so I look forward to any improvements.

Hearts are quests. Instead of seeing them in a Quest log and after taking the reward they disappear, we have them transformed into NPC merchants.
Events are repeatable quests with a timer.
I don’t think they will make the heart quests repeatable too, but they could add a daily email from the Faction with the request to help different NPCs which will be the heart quests reloaded
The mail will be like this:

“Hello Hero.
There are some citizens having trouble in Queensdale, Sparkfly Fen and Kessex Hills
Please can, you help NPC1, NPC2, NPC3, … NPC 10? Your help will be rewarded, of course!

Reward:
Helping 5 NPCs = 1 hero token
Heliping 10 NPC = 3 hero tokens

Hero tokens will be used to purchase a special armor called “heroic armor”

The zones will be spread across all levels because the mails will start to appear immediately after the character has joined a faction.

Keiran.1896:

1. When you complete a heart, it becomes blue and you can complete it again once a day for a “heart token”. With a lot of those tokens, you can check a trader and buy exclusive rewards such as skins/minis/black lion keys/legendary components/ascended components/skill points/karma/money…

2. When you complete an event, you get 1 “event token”. When you complete one that you have never completed before, you get 3. With those tokens, you can get even more rewards that with hearts tokens.

See? Players rush hearts all across the game everyday and seek constantly new events. That’s what I call:
Replayability.

This. Though heart tokens for first completion are not necessary, it counts towards map completion and that in itself is significant reward. 5 or 10 of these could also be added to the daily achievement.

This would significantly add to the solo player replayability, since anything instanced (dungeons, fractals, etc.) requires a party, and in smaller casual guilds it isn’t always easy to get a group of 4-5 together for long enough to do them.

Naqaj.6219:

TL;DR: Grind is the worst kind of replayability. Ask for better replayability, this game actually has the means to provide it.

I side with this. While I’m neither for or against hearts (good source of XP while levelling, but I wouldn’t do them otherwise, unless for zone completion – both of which I only do once), I don’t think turning them into daily quests will do anything positive. There’s plenty of other ways to gain replayability without more needless amounts of grinding.

I like it, I really do.

One of the most fun things about GW2 is discovering hearts and doing them.

The reward was the quests themselves.

No and No the reason is this EXPLORE THE GAME.

Oh and if you make this only unlocked when you complete world complete then i wouldnt have a problem oh and make it change color to red. so that you know you have done it for that month

Naqaj.6219:

TL;DR: Grind is the worst kind of replayability. Ask for better replayability, this game actually has the means to provide it.

Grind is why we play, it really is. If you don’t want to grind, you don’t want to play.

Leveling is a grind, hearts are a grind, having no endgame is a grind, holding a button to move forward is a grind. Instead of making boring grind, like we currently have, add fun grind and for fox sake how about some reward for this grind?

Personally I like to grind, I don’t mind killing 1 type of mob in a zone for hours, there is always the chance on that 1 lucky drop (in most games) in this one, nadda, oh and on top of it you get punished for “grinding” via diminishing returns because apparently the Chinese sell gold for less than ANet, hence the problem persisting.

I miss having fun, but this game is all about the all mighty dollar, I knew it was going to be like this because “no sub fee” aka "the money has to come from some where and all those people who say 15 dollars a month is a ripoff, I spent well over 15 every month I have played just to have pocket change.

I can’t say I am surprised at the model, but the lack of fun things to do is even more limited because of the anti-grind approach. 1 dungeon path a day, or do it 3 times for nothing. Kill mobs at 2 events until nothing drops, then go else where and do the same. Kill dragons for 3 silver and a green.

LA is Orgrimmar 2.0, stand in town spamming LFG, or waiting on your guild to do something, huge world hindered by OP event systems that don’t scale and more diminishing returns.

What are we supposed to do in this game honestly?

Nappychappy.7046:

What are we supposed to do in this game honestly?

Having fun with people you know and forget about the big carrots at the end of everything you do.

The game is already built to do this with dynamic events.
People do runs through Queensdale precisely for the sake of daily rewards.

The problem lies in reward-rates, not the availability from hearts.

The fact that rarer 400-level mats and event-rewards are only available in higher level zones causes players to zerg towards Cursed Shores.
This and Fractals/Dungeons cause players to disappear from the open world.

Replayability value already exists
ANet just needs to balance out reward-rates so the player mentality surrounding “efficiency” can disperse

Ronah.2869:

Nappychappy.7046:

What are we supposed to do in this game honestly?

Having fun with people you know and forget about the big carrots at the end of everything you do.

There is no carrot, just a big empty hook. Most people I know, who have the game, also know as well.

Horrible idea.

As some others have already stated, the OP thinks replayability comes from grind. Instead of asking for more content so people would have fun and thus want to play the game more, he’s asking for more grind so people would be willing to play content that is not fun more.

Hearts are probably the worst content in this game. They were designed as tutorials to force players to see dynamic events and understand how those are the core of the open world game. Rewarding people for repeating hearts over and over, considering how boring, easy and mindless they are, is rewarding the worst kind of player in the game for doing the worst kind of content in the game.

Keiran.1896:

WoW understands it and puts such tokens everywhere for mounts/minis. A way to keep busy those who don’t like repetitive dungeons. And it works.

WoW is dying. All WoW clones are dead or dying. The classic MMO model, focused on grinders and addicts, is not cutting it anymore.

Erasculio.2914:

Horrible idea.

As some others have already stated, the OP thinks replayability comes from grind. Instead of asking for more content so people would have fun and thus want to play the game more, he’s asking for more grind so people would be willing to play content that is not fun more.

Hearts are probably the worst content in this game. They were designed as tutorials to force players to see dynamic events and understand how those are the core of the open world game. Rewarding people for repeating hearts over and over, considering how boring, easy and mindless they are, is rewarding the worst kind of player in the game for doing the worst kind of content in the game.

Keiran.1896:

WoW understands it and puts such tokens everywhere for mounts/minis. A way to keep busy those who don’t like repetitive dungeons. And it works.

WoW is dying. All WoW clones are dead or dying. The classic MMO model, focused on grinders and addicts, is not cutting it anymore.

WoW is dying like an infant, gw2 dying is like an old man with cancer.

The difference is WoW is still full of life, and since Blizzard takes good ideas from other games it offers more fun. GW2 tries so hard to be different it shuns every good idea and leaves the players with nothing fun to do.

Also, people love grind. It is a system in which rewards players for time. CoD has grind, people prestige multiple times, why? Prestige is character building. It’s fun to those who enjoy the game, because time = reward. In GW2 time doesn’t mean anything, it means that you will get less reward, it means reward is payed for with gems.

Play less, pay more.

GW2 doesn’t even try to compete with other IP’s player time. This is very bad, and some how they keep making it worse. I loved this game, now it’s just in between game until something better comes along, which sucks because I had such high hopes. I know gw2 will do well because people like to play for nothing and this being AAA title, no complaints; however those people don’t spend money either.

Definitely isn’t a game for me, I like to “earn” what I get, not buy it. What’s the point of playing if you buy a legendary, complete the story and explore the world?

Token system ; feels like victory.

http://d3b4yo2b5lbfy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/61efeToken-Items.jpg