allow players to post items 1 copper below vender price, it will help the servers and the players

allow players to post items 1 copper below vender price, it will help the servers and the players

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Posted by: illgot.1056

illgot.1056

People use the TP as a way to store items out in the field to make room in their inventory. Players know there is a 5% posting fee and 10% tax if the item sells, but by doing so, the player still gains more money than if they deleted the item to make more room in their inventory.

Because there are probably 59374985679 of that item already on the TP for that +1 copper vender price, it rarely sells and instead the seller cancels the auction the next time they are near the TP and sells it to a vender for the items value. Only 5% of that items value is taken out of the economy.

If items could be posted on the TP for -1 copper vender price, this is how a more beneficial system would work.

Players is out in the field will still post items at the lowest price possible to make room in their inventory or just because they do not want to vender what they think could be a useful item to another player.

If the items are posted at -1 copper vender price, another player in town will always purchase that item and sell it to the vender for a +1 copper gain.


Allowing players to sell items at -1 copper vender price does a few things.

First, there is no actual +1 copper generated in the economy. Instead, that +1 copper gain the purchaser receives by vendering the item is what would originally go to the seller if they vendered said item in the current system. So, no extra money generated in the economy by doing this.

Second, by constantly selling items at -1 copper vender price, the economy is stimulated because an additional 10% of that items value is permanently deleted from the economy which totals 15%. Instead of posting items at a 5% loss and canceling the auction in town to vender the items themselves, we now have items constantly being sold which nets a 15% loss vs 5%. This helps the economy on every server.

Third, we no longer have the servers tracking 59374985679 of one item (multiplied thousands of times). Instead we have players constantly cleaning up the TP and stimulating the economy because constantly selling an item may increase an items perceived value (items can sell for more than vender price if players just get into the habit of buying and selling).

Forth, the economy has no negative effects by doing so and instead benefits in every possible way because this process will always take more money out of the economy than the current system of only allowing items to be sold at +1 copper vender price.

Allow players to sell items on the TP for -1 copper of the items value and everyone wins.

(edited by illgot.1056)

allow players to post items 1 copper below vender price, it will help the servers and the players

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Posted by: Gummy.4278

Gummy.4278

I am starting to think the people who do this are gold farmers who are trying to destroy the Economy …the bot is told to sell everything in the TP for 1 copper over vendor so no one else in the game has a chance to profit and the gold farmers think maybe that people will turn to them for this and in turn steal their accounts yada yada .
I would rather they would lower/remove the 10%cost of selling the item and make the list price go up a bit.
Also it may not be people are sending stuff to the TP from the field since you can relocate crafting mats to the consumables, add a salvage to that and you can keep going for a long time.

allow players to post items 1 copper below vender price, it will help the servers and the players

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Posted by: illgot.1056

illgot.1056

I am starting to think the people who do this are gold farmers who are trying to destroy the Economy …the bot is told to sell everything in the TP for 1 copper over vendor so no one else in the game has a chance to profit and the gold farmers think maybe that people will turn to them for this and in turn steal their accounts yada yada .
I would rather they would lower/remove the 10%cost of selling the item and make the list price go up a bit.
Also it may not be people are sending stuff to the TP from the field since you can relocate crafting mats to the consumables, add a salvage to that and you can keep going for a long time.

salvaging often nets in a complete loss in any profit once you get past the starter levels. Most mats sell for less than the items vender price or even TPing an item and later vendering it nets.

(edited by illgot.1056)

allow players to post items 1 copper below vender price, it will help the servers and the players

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Posted by: Eochaidh.4106

Eochaidh.4106

Who in the world would purchase something, go to the black lion NPC to grab it, then look for a vendor for 1c profit when they waste coin left and right on waypoints and everything else? These things are cheap because crafted goods are worthless, not because there is some sort of trend among players. People are overdoing crafting (for experience, and nothing else), and crafting is really worthless when everyone does it.

allow players to post items 1 copper below vender price, it will help the servers and the players

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Posted by: Crise.9401

Crise.9401

Well even vendor price +1c nets a loss to the seller, so what you propose would only inflate that loss, while practical as a gold sink, people really shouldn’t sell vendor price + 1c on TP to begin with.

allow players to post items 1 copper below vender price, it will help the servers and the players

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Posted by: paultimate.8790

paultimate.8790

I posted this in the reddit forums and got 90% BS from people about it. “Its fine” “It wont effect economy” “changing this wont help anything” and other crap.

How about this, let lazy people continue to be lazy at their own cost. Its perfectly reasonable to be out adventuring not wanting to WP to a vendor and instead TP your junk. EVEN FOR LESS THAN VENDOR PRICE. This safty net is unneeded, doesnt help them, doenst help the economy, doesnt help me or you or anyone else.

At the very most, put a warning and confirmation when you post something more than 10% lower than vendor/average item price. Give people a CHOICE do not force them.

Remove the disability and implement a confirmation instead. If someone wants to sell a exotic for 1c, let them. Do not police the economy this way.

allow players to post items 1 copper below vender price, it will help the servers and the players

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Posted by: paultimate.8790

paultimate.8790

Well even vendor price +1c nets a loss to the seller, so what you propose would only inflate that loss, while practical as a gold sink, people really shouldn’t sell vendor price + 1c on TP to begin with.

Its not upto you what the reasons behind why people would sell it for less than vendor cost. Not everyone has a pal merchant following them around 24/7. Time is money, and it takes time to take a WP to a merchant and then trek it out back where you were. And if youre 80 and take a WP youre out 1.5s ontop of this.

The feature does nothing good for anything and all arguements to keep it rely on policing the lazy into WP around, and at 80 that is very unfun and unprofitable.

allow players to post items 1 copper below vender price, it will help the servers and the players

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Posted by: Jornophelanthas.1475

Jornophelanthas.1475

I believe a better solution to this issue would be to disallow putting items up for sale on the Trade Post when not near a Black Lion Trader NPC.

This discourages players from dumping everything they have on the Trade Post without a second thought, and ruining the economy as a result.

If it is goldsellers who are doing this, then they either lose time by having to find a Black Lion Trader NPC (or gold if they use waypoint travel), or purchase the Gem Shop item that summons one. Both of these options significantly reduce their profitability.

allow players to post items 1 copper below vender price, it will help the servers and the players

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Posted by: Crise.9401

Crise.9401

Well even vendor price +1c nets a loss to the seller, so what you propose would only inflate that loss, while practical as a gold sink, people really shouldn’t sell vendor price + 1c on TP to begin with.

Its not upto you what the reasons behind why people would sell it for less than vendor cost. Not everyone has a pal merchant following them around 24/7. Time is money, and it takes time to take a WP to a merchant and then trek it out back where you were. And if youre 80 and take a WP youre out 1.5s ontop of this.

The feature does nothing good for anything and all arguements to keep it rely on policing the lazy into WP around, and at 80 that is very unfun and unprofitable.

So, you are really saying there are not enough merchants, not that we should encourage people to adopt the habit of selling things at a loss. I don’t have a pal merchant with me, anymore than anyone else, but to be fair, I don’t get pains for trashing cheap stuff or salvaging it and hitting deposit collectibles.

Also why would selling things at an even greater loss ever encourage people to buy more of X to begin with. Dirt cheap prices will not generate infinite demand. +1c is worthless when a single dynamic event gets that many times over.

How about keeping the trading post as a trading post, not a supplement of a trash can that generates diminishing returns, for a third party. If you don’t want the vendor price for an item, then trash or salvage it.

(edited by Crise.9401)

allow players to post items 1 copper below vender price, it will help the servers and the players

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Posted by: Wazabi.1439

Wazabi.1439

I am starting to think the people who do this are gold farmers who are trying to destroy the Economy …the bot is told to sell everything in the TP for 1 copper over vendor so no one else in the game has a chance to profit and the gold farmers think maybe that people will turn to them for this and in turn steal their accounts yada yada .
I would rather they would lower/remove the 10%cost of selling the item and make the list price go up a bit.
Also it may not be people are sending stuff to the TP from the field since you can relocate crafting mats to the consumables, add a salvage to that and you can keep going for a long time.

The cost of selling item is exactly the mechanism to deter speculation, which the gold farmers will definitely exploit. A lower transaction cost makes moving the market for a short period of time possible…If I’m a gold farmer, I will have a large pooled resource to move the market even for a little while to exploit it.

allow players to post items 1 copper below vender price, it will help the servers and the players

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Posted by: dux.8720

dux.8720

if the item is just worth vendor +1 , it’s just worth vendor +1. deal with it, instead of accusing other to be bots for no reason.

allow players to post items 1 copper below vender price, it will help the servers and the players

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Posted by: Tradewind.6913

Tradewind.6913

This is the worst idea ever. The people using the TP as their mobile storage center are the ones who are absolutely crippling legitimate sellers from making any profit what-so-ever. Because we’re all beholden to these stupid “at vendor +1c” priced items and would have to match it at a loss after the posting fee and sales fee.

(edited by Tradewind.6913)

allow players to post items 1 copper below vender price, it will help the servers and the players

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Posted by: Brick Mantooth.9520

Brick Mantooth.9520

I find it hard to believe folks are putting up items on TP for 1+ in order to “store” these items for lack of bank space What would be the point of that? Putting them up on the auction house for 1+ is basically deeming them worthless, which, in that case, why bother storing them at all?

The whole premise seems wrong. Most people don’t craft items out in the field, they typically craft in towns and outposts that mostly have a TP in them anyway.

I think people fail to realize that the TP is ALL of gw2 and not just their servers and have undercut each other (due to a glut of items) to the point where they are worthless now.

allow players to post items 1 copper below vender price, it will help the servers and the players

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Posted by: Keziah.2653

Keziah.2653

Seriously — posting a -1 copper under vendor is not a good idea.

Guys, go to the GW2 wiki and read up on the TP. It specifically warns you to NOT post at a +1 copper vendor price because you will LOSE money.

here: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trading_Post

Be careful not to list for so little that you would take home less than you would get by selling the item to a vendor, i.e. never sell for less than 20% more than the item’s value. For example:

An item of 88 bronze coins can be sold on the trading post for 89 bronze coins, but this results in 76 bronze coins (after deducting 9 bronze coins for a successful sale and 4 bronze coins for the listing fee).

If offered for 1 silver coin 6 bronze coins, you would take home 90 bronze coin, 2 bronze coins more than the price the vendor offers (after paying a sales tax of 11 bronze coins, listing fee of 5 bronze coins)

Remember, the TP is shared across ALL servers and the TP was down for over a week and a half. People were crafting and storing up drops just waiting for the TP to come back online and now the market is flooded. Either vendor that stuff, buy more bank space or salvage… but don’t post for +1 or -1 copper vendor price. That’s just silly.

Kiz Nyx (Ele) | Kressida Nyx (Guar) | Phaedra Nyx (Mes) | Ylva Nyx (Ran) | Ghanima Nyx (Nec)
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allow players to post items 1 copper below vender price, it will help the servers and the players

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Posted by: Hawken.7932

Hawken.7932

Seriously — posting a -1 copper under vendor is not a good idea.

Guys, go to the GW2 wiki and read up on the TP. It specifically warns you to NOT post at a +1 copper vendor price because you will LOSE money.

here: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trading_Post

Be careful not to list for so little that you would take home less than you would get by selling the item to a vendor, i.e. never sell for less than 20% more than the item’s value. For example:

An item of 88 bronze coins can be sold on the trading post for 89 bronze coins, but this results in 76 bronze coins (after deducting 9 bronze coins for a successful sale and 4 bronze coins for the listing fee).

If offered for 1 silver coin 6 bronze coins, you would take home 90 bronze coin, 2 bronze coins more than the price the vendor offers (after paying a sales tax of 11 bronze coins, listing fee of 5 bronze coins)

Remember, the TP is shared across ALL servers and the TP was down for over a week and a half. People were crafting and storing up drops just waiting for the TP to come back online and now the market is flooded. Either vendor that stuff, buy more bank space or salvage… but don’t post for +1 or -1 copper vendor price. That’s just silly.

I’m not sure you read the suggestion properly, and I think the OPs solution could work quite well. The idea was aimed at clearing out all of the 1c above vendor items which are cluttering the TP currently.

However, I think there’s still a flaw in that argument. It would technically stand a chance at clearing out all the crap from the TP, but there would be nothing stopping people from continuing the existing practice and setting them for 1 above vendor.

(and I agree, it has occurred to me also that it’s the gold sellers who are doing this deliberately, wrecking the economy for others).

allow players to post items 1 copper below vender price, it will help the servers and the players

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Posted by: Tradewind.6913

Tradewind.6913

I’m not sure you read the suggestion properly, and I think the OPs solution could work quite well. The idea was aimed at clearing out all of the 1c above vendor items which are cluttering the TP currently.

However, I think there’s still a flaw in that argument. It would technically stand a chance at clearing out all the crap from the TP, but there would be nothing stopping people from continuing the existing practice and setting them for 1 above vendor.

(and I agree, it has occurred to me also that it’s the gold sellers who are doing this deliberately, wrecking the economy for others).

Except there is no “current practice,” beyond storing items. At 1c above vendor it’s the lowest possible price the person can set it for storage so it has the lowest “fee” attached to it. Multiply that by thousands if not tens of thousands of people doing it, what do you get? A poisoned price floor. By allowing people to set it even lower, is just going to lower that price floor. Because you only have 3 options when selling something, match lowest seller, sell to an open buy order (usually at a loss too…) or set your own price and have it never sell because of all the +1c’ers using the TP as a personal bank overriding the fair value prices. Nobody is going to willingly pay more just because a subset of listed items is earmarked as “storage.” That’s ludicrous.

The practice of storing on the trading post is destroying the game’s economy from the ground up.

allow players to post items 1 copper below vender price, it will help the servers and the players

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Posted by: Brick Mantooth.9520

Brick Mantooth.9520

Conspiracy theory abounds…

People built up inventory over a week of the TP being down to the point where it was filling their banks. The TP opens up and people, trying to undercut each other with a huge glut of the same exact items, end up undercutting each other to the point where they literally aren’t making any money on the deal.

That’s not some evil-genius stragegy of “wrecking the economy”, it’s supply and demand.

Also, even if you accept the premise that people are using the TP for “storage” what reason would you store items that you basically made worthless by listing them for +1c??

not trying to be confrontational, I am genuinely curious

(edited by Brick Mantooth.9520)

allow players to post items 1 copper below vender price, it will help the servers and the players

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Posted by: Tradewind.6913

Tradewind.6913

Conspiracy theory abounds…

People built up inventory over a week of the TP being down to the point where it was filling their banks. The TP opens up and people, trying to undercut each other with a huge glut of the same exact items, end up undercutting each other to the point where they literally aren’t making any money on the deal.

That’s not some evil-genius stragegy of “wrecking the economy”, it’s supply and demand.

So is it just stupidity or willful ignorance that drives these people to unwittingly ruin the economy? Undercutting to the point of ruining the very economy you’re trying to take advantage of is pretty counter-productive. If this was also the case it would be much more systemic, there are still many items that sell for what could be considered fair value. It’s mostly the crappy blues and green armor/weapons that have this issue.

allow players to post items 1 copper below vender price, it will help the servers and the players

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Posted by: Hawken.7932

Hawken.7932

Conspiracy theory abounds…

People built up inventory over a week of the TP being down to the point where it was filling their banks. The TP opens up and people, trying to undercut each other with a huge glut of the same exact items, end up undercutting each other to the point where they literally aren’t making any money on the deal.

That’s not some evil-genius stragegy of “wrecking the economy”, it’s supply and demand.

Also, even if you accept the premise that people are using the TP for “storage” what reason would you store items that you basically made worthless by listing them for +1c??

In many cases, you’re not making them worthless by putting them at vendor+1, you’re just prohibiting people from buying them up to make a profit from them at the vendor. What people are doing is putting them on the TP for a price at which they can’t even make money (because the TP takes a cut), and then cancelling the orders when they get to town so that they can then vendor them. They take a small loss, but not as much loss as if they had to destroy them to make room in their bags.

allow players to post items 1 copper below vender price, it will help the servers and the players

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Posted by: Brick Mantooth.9520

Brick Mantooth.9520

I think we can all agree, using the tp to store items by devaluing them to near worthless is a pretty dumb move.

Seriously, putting items up on TP and then taking a fee cancelling the order in order to just sell them at the vendor? Why not just vendor them when you’re crafting them?? Every profession table has a vendor right there…

But honestly, it doesn’t even come close to ruining the economy. The components that these items are made from are just as valuable, since they are required to level up the profession in the first place.

EDIT: I had to go back and re-read the OP. So we’re talking about just items in general, not the crafted items? Ok, I don’t even know what to think. I’m checking out of here for my sanity. If you want to give away money to the economy just travel all over the world or die a bunch of times to incur repair costs. /runs screaming out the window

(edited by Brick Mantooth.9520)

allow players to post items 1 copper below vender price, it will help the servers and the players

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Posted by: Tradewind.6913

Tradewind.6913

I think we can all agree, using the tp to store items by devaluing them to near worthless is a pretty dumb move.

Seriously, putting items up on TP and then taking a fee cancelling the order in order to just sell them at the vendor? Why not just vendor them when you’re crafting them?? Every profession table has a vendor right there…

But honestly, it doesn’t even come close to ruining the economy. The components that these items are made from are just as valuable, since they are required to level up the profession in the first place.

There’s also vendors strewn around the world.

But no they’re not anywhere near the appropriate cost versus the cost in materials to make them. Leveling tailoring and artifice I had to vendor many items just to make some money back because the same items were going for +1c on the TP, when you’re having to dump gear with master insignias (8x rare crafting item worth 1s or higher each) for vendor price because the TP value is sub 2s something is wrong.

allow players to post items 1 copper below vender price, it will help the servers and the players

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Posted by: Hawken.7932

Hawken.7932

I think we can all agree, using the tp to store items by devaluing them to near worthless is a pretty dumb move.

Seriously, putting items up on TP and then taking a fee cancelling the order in order to just sell them at the vendor? Why not just vendor them when you’re crafting them?? Every profession table has a vendor right there…

But honestly, it doesn’t even come close to ruining the economy. The components that these items are made from are just as valuable, since they are required to level up the profession in the first place.

Because crafted items aren’t the only source drops? I get a ton of drops just from doing general PvE. Personally it doesn’t clutter up my bags that much, as I have purchased two bag slots and am pretty regularly vendoring things out in the field, but I could imagine people doing this.

Still I’m playing devil’s advocate here a little bit, because I don’t really believe this is the source of all of the crap on the TP. I’ve thought so far that it was either #1 – the number of people too lazy (or stupid) to try and set their stuff at a profitable price far outnumber those who aren’t, or #2 — the gold sellers are spamming the TP with stuff set at the lowest price to flood the market and keep it flooded.

I don’t know if that’s a conspiracy theory or not, but honestly gold selling is a huge business and don’t underestimate those people at doing whatever it takes to break the economy and drive people to their services.

Edit: just to add, it’s not exclusively crafted items which are on the TP at the lowest price — virtually any drop that I find in the field (even the mastercraft ones) are on the TP for 1 above vendor price.

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Posted by: Wazabi.1439

Wazabi.1439

In an economy with 2 million participants, it is significantly harder for any gold seller to move the market and exploit it. Conspiracy theorist here fails to see that. Also, you don’t magically determine how much an item will sell for…they buyer does when there is competition (2million other people) and an excess of supply. The combined factor of too many gear drop, karma gears, too many people crafting, everyone able to loot a body, and multiply that by 2 million players in the same market is the reason most gears are worthless, crafted or drops. Changing the TP in anyway won’t change the fact that a trash item is a trash item.

Removing the price floor on TP would only means that price of gear might drop lower to a certain point than a vendor price. Only people wanting to clear their bag space on the field for whatever reason will do that and they have to decide how much are they willing to lose in profit from doing so. That opens up the opportunity for players near the TP to buy it up and sells it to vendor at a profit. Also, you don’t lose money selling drops…you just earn a reduced profit for posting at price floor.

All arguments asking to change the TP that I’ve seen stems from a lack of/misguided fundamental understanding on how an economy works.

allow players to post items 1 copper below vender price, it will help the servers and the players

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Posted by: illgot.1056

illgot.1056

In an economy with 2 million participants, it is significantly harder for any gold seller to move the market and exploit it. Conspiracy theorist here fails to see that. Also, you don’t magically determine how much an item will sell for…they buyer does when there is competition (2million other people) and an excess of supply. The combined factor of too many gear drop, karma gears, too many people crafting, everyone able to loot a body, and multiply that by 2 million players in the same market is the reason most gears are worthless, crafted or drops. Changing the TP in anyway won’t change the fact that a trash item is a trash item.

Removing the price floor on TP would only means that price of gear might drop lower to a certain point than a vendor price. Only people wanting to clear their bag space on the field for whatever reason will do that and they have to decide how much are they willing to lose in profit from doing so. That opens up the opportunity for players near the TP to buy it up and sells it to vendor at a profit. Also, you don’t lose money selling drops…you just earn a reduced profit for posting at price floor.

All arguments asking to change the TP that I’ve seen stems from a lack of/misguided fundamental understanding on how an economy works.

my main reason for wanting to drop the floor -1 copper vender price is to encourage buyers to clear out the TP a bit and work as a money sink.

By allowing people to sell items at -1 copper below vender price and allowing another person to make +1 copper by buying and vendering that item, we are not generating additional money, and if the item sells we now created an addition 10% (of the items value) money sink.

Quite honestly, I’m not sure why the floor exists to begin with.

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Posted by: Wazabi.1439

Wazabi.1439

Well…it will clear given enough time…if they know they can’t sell it at +1c, they’ll eventually just vendor it. TP being cluttered by unsold item doesn’t have an impact on the real value of the item.

And yes, I’m more of a free market guy, to I don’t see the need for floor.

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Posted by: anzenketh.3759

anzenketh.3759

The floor restriction is there for a reason. The reason is that someone (vendor) will always buy your item for their price. If you sell you item for below the vendor price someone will flip your item to the vendor. This can and did happen in the BWE. It is there because the buyer can gain unearned money not the seller. It was put in place to assist the seller from underselling themselfs.

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