Guild Wars 2

EDIT::
People seem to miss the point of the topic and are confused at how ANYONE could see downsides to GW2 design choices (without being a “Troll”) ~ So how bout a little “context” for those interested in game design and development::
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aip2aIt0ROM&feature=share&list=ELFebTfu2MPF4
___________

Funny… even though I don’t really care bout the topic (Got my 60$ worth via console game mentality)…

However..

I still find it funny that all the white knights/fans keep posting on similar topics as nothing more then elitist snobs. (not even suggesting fixes, just “justifying” why the game is “good to them”)

Anyone with experience in gaming knows there ARE legit problems that ARE causing people to “leave” GW2 ~ just like you would after beating the campaign in a single player game.

Main problem = Nothing to do but “grind” at 80.
IE: Same endgame as WoW but GW2 doesn’t “hide” the grind as well as WoW.

GW2 Suggested solutions via bias fans::
1. Go explore the world!
2. Puzzles!
3. WvWvW
4. World Completion 100%
5. LEGENDARIES!?

But what the white knights/fans don’t seem to account for::

1. World Events, Bosses, Dungeons have No risk / Reward loot.
2. Stale (Spamfest/zerg) combat, trivializes encounters, events and even dungeons to some extent.
3. Can’t ever put together a group or find people to actually have “fun” in the world, anyways =/

At the end of the day, people like to feel like they’ve accomplished something (trivial as it is) and GW2 does a shoty job at it.

We’re constantly reminded that “grind” is the endgame via Legendaries or 100% completion.. or WvW = gate/door farming.

For me, I stopped NOT because of the grind tho.. but because I can’t find anyone ta do anything with.

Server jumping, guild prostituting, ect… no matter what, no one wants to do anything unless it’s exploiting the current system and/or has a chest at the end of it.

This makes 90% of the game simply a solo play campaign.
Which last I checked, GW2 was touted as an MMO.

Anywho, I digress..

I’ve seen countless threads in the suggestions area.. many of which are very well thought out and would improve GW2 greatly! ~

However, no one seems to care =/

They’re far more interested in telling other people they they’re playing GW2 “wrong” and/or expecting too much from it.

lol, imagine IF the Knights put half as much effort into making legit suggestions to improving GW2 as they do trolling the forums…

But then again, IF they did that.. they would just be trolled by other “fans/knights” or be completely ignored anyways..

#the vicious cycle ~

Personally, I made some suggestions to “fix” GW2.. and though they’ve pretty much gone unanswered ~ you’re welcome to check them out

Beyond that, to anyone wanting to “flame me” for my opinion that GW2 is nothing more than a single player game (campaign + multiplayer/co-op).

Understand, that I LIKE these types of games ~ hence WHY I’ve already shifted over to Torchlight 2.. and will be moving on to Borderlands 2 after that..

Anywho, best of luck to ANet!

You guys did a great job on the game.. but it would be foolish to say your game “works well” with all of it’s mechanics (you’re trying to please too many people / jack of all, master of none).

My suggestions::

Combat, Dynamic Events… what’s the point if they’re easy mode?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Combat-Dynamic-Events-what-s-the-point-if-they-re-easy-mode

GW2, Challenge Mode Dungeons.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/GW2-Challenge-Mode-Edition

Zone Completion + Vista Theater?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Scouter-it-s-OVER-9-000

/WHO IS?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Who-is

As a closing statement, I’d ask the rest here on the forums to make your own suggestions.. NO, they don’t have to be grand in scale.. but at least something that you think would benifit the game.

Make sure to include a REASON why your idea is good
~Saying the game needs mounts, because EVERYGAME HAS MOUNTS!.. isn’t very logical or thoughtout :P

#good luck to those that bothered to actually read this and will be helping ANet rather then “just” trolling the forums!

Shatterer-esque encounters in dungeons – Replace a typical boss mob with a glamorous mob with unique animations like the shatterer, claw of Jormag, etc. Give it special mechanics, scale it for a group of 5, and make it actually difficult.

Daily Dungeons – Remove DR and reward 20-40 tokens per run with some money, maybe 15 silver. Every day, a random path of a random dungeon rewards a special prize for that day. An example would be large chunk of XP, 50 silver, and an Idol of Balthazaar that you can exchange for 50-100 of any dungeon token. Of course this is a once a day thing.

A suggestion I made in another thread:

long term crowd control
I think the dungeons, and also the leveling, would benefit a lot from introducing long term cc to complement all the current short term cc.

This cc would have to work on 2 important principles though:
1. it would have to break on the slightest damage, simply don’t aoe near them. Not mindlessly spamming aoe abilities by itself would be an improvement in strategy…
2. other players would have to be able to break any cc on a player, just like everybody can rezz you when downed.
Or else: players should be able to break it themselves, again: just like being downed.

The reasons for 1 and 2 are mostly to avoid this kind of long term cc disrupt the pvp balance.

In dungeons however this could create more divers gameplay and strategy.
For solo players this opens opportunities of handling difficult situations even when no one else is around.

2 fine tunings that I think are very needed, mostly to provide solo challenges that are both realistic and still challenging:

respawn rate needs to be turned down.
it’s no fun when you’re alone picking mob after mob to get to a veteran, or skill point, and the mob you just killed respawns in your back while fighting…

Downscaling needs to bring a player down to the level of the questing players, let’s say to the gear level of what a blue-green geared player would wear when leveling.
The world shrinks if you’re too strong for any mob outside of the max level zone… Tyria is suppose to stay as big as it was when leveling.

@Zale ~
Shatter:: One of the reasons events and dungeons aren’t very “tactical” (fun) is due to the combat limitations..

IE: Your spells don’t have weight and are easily spammed.
If you would like to see a good example of Action Combat with “weight” ~ check out this vid of C9.

#the guy is kind of annoying and repeats himself a LOT.. but it’s not bad for an overview of the mechanics of “action combat” Vs. GW2’s.

@Kimbald ~
lol, the first thing that came to mind after reading your suggestion… was a Genjutsu in Naruto (other players able to ‘break’ the CC on you).

Other than that, it sounds good in theory.. but what about the implementation? or diminished returns?

Currently, you can get stun locked via knock downs, stun, daze, ect… (painfully obvious in WvW and Orr, if you agro too many of those “yoink mobs”).

Take the initiative to play with other people then lmao. I mean imo, I reeeeally do not see this to be single player…Thanks to shared exp/anyone can rev/DE. Everyone comes together just about all the time. I’m really never alone.

Diminishing returns, or plain immunity for a long ammount after one form of long cc. 30 seconds or so, something that would force you to deal with the mob instead of re-applying the same cc over and over between players.

About the current stunlocking: think that’s another issue, more related to the fast and bursty nature of skills here.
Players might benefit from diminishing returns shared over ALL disables for example. Which would hurt some classes more than others, but still…
If players benefit from DR against both cc of other players and of mobs, than that would solve both stunlocking situations in pve or pvp.

I’m not experienced enough in pvp here to say that a change there is needed. that’s why i did my best to avoid making a suggestion that would have effect there.

Personally I think pvp is too bursty and only little of the ‘countering’ it is supposed to have really makes fights longer.
It’s sort of: a thief kills you in seconds, but it takes ages for you to kill that guardian… neither have to do with reacting as such.
But as I said: too nooby at pvp to make a real judgement.
I am a bit disappointed though, I expected longer strategic fights, not this short bursty stuff
Not that I’ve seen much solo fighting in pvp, most of it is zerging and outnumbering, since I’m only starting out in pugs and WvW.

At this point my number one suggestion to Arenanet would be to close the forums.

As horrible as that sounds, and as horrible as it’d look from an outside perspective, all this forum is really achieving is creating a growing feeling of negativity towards the game. It’s a form of mob mentality, and while fascinating, ultimately detrimental to the community.

There’s no point in us being able to talk to each other on forums if all we’re doing is convincing each other that the game sucks.

I have to emphasize though that I’m not saying communication should cease; quite the opposite. The devs need to be saying more things about more subjects and providing a clear image of where they think the game is and where they plan to go with it. Just… do away with the peanut gallery.

That’s what I would do if it was my job and my livelihood on the line, anyway.

As we’re touching on the subject of the forum communication and mentality, both in the OP as Corian’s reply, I would like to add this:

Just as too much negativity is bad for the general atmosphere, the same can be said for a lot of the ‘defending’ of this game in the forums.

Just for saying my first leveling experience after lvl 20 felt too lonely in the maps, and often I struggled to get things done due to respawns moslty, I have been accused of being paid by the competition for example…
This is just a bad example obviously, but it still happened, and not just to me.

The term ‘wowtard’ is used so very often even when no one is saying this or that is better in WoW and therefor GW2 sucks…

The OP calls them ‘white knights’ the common used terms here.

I can very much understand peope defending this game, and they should: it’s worth it.
What I absolutely can not stand however, is people refusing to take any critisism, any at all.

Is GW2 dying? I have no clue.
Are many people leaving it, be it for a while or forever? Yes, many seem to be. How long they are indeed leaving no one can tell, that much is true.
But merely mentioning this unleashes a storm of insults on these forums.

I am actually astonished at the level of agressive elitisism, white knights indeed, that I see on these forums.
This alone puts me of the game a bit, odd as it may seem.

I really like this thread because it starts on the basis that the dev’s could use some suggestions from the playerbase.
This is what’s needed: suggestions from people who like the game, as well as from people who are disapointed in it. That’s the only way to get something good out of both.

I really like GW2 as a concept, but in the practical implementation I see much to be desired. Not leaving yet, just trying to point at what I see.

After adressing this side-issue of the this thread, the real purpose is indeed to give suggestions (which I did above), I will try to refrain from this in future posts

*@Kimbald ~*
Thanks for seeing the bigger picture

In all honestly, I expected this thread to be trolled to death within a few minutes.. resulting it simply being closed due to the ensuing "flame war" within.

However.. You, Zale and a few others have taken the time to not only read the topic but also write feedback/suggestions.

This proves to me that the forums are not a completely lost cause.. and even further, I’m not sure you noticed but there were acouple "troll" remarks at how I should L2P ~ which were deleted from the topic.

This shows that ANet are also willing to support critiques (as they could’ve just as easily, locked this thread).

Anywho, you’re right and we shouldn’t dwell on negative attitudes.

#Here’s ta hopeing more people catch on (Devs included) and chime into the conversation via improving GW2 utilizing the community.

Kimbald.2697:

Snip

To be honest a lot of the threads I catch you in are about diminishing returns. Full of hype, misinformation, subjective opinion and sensationalism.

These are not conducive methods of giving constructive criticism. They are designed to organise rabble rousing and cause the misinformed to get up in arms about things they don’t understand to try and bully a change through.

This rhetoric is not positive for the community and will not actually achieve anything other than informing the misinformed with negative information.

Here we go again, people use the loose term MMO – Yes this game is an MMO, any game online that is intended for a large audience is an MMO, however your using the term as a watered down abbreviation for MMORPG which this game, as with the first one, is not.
Guild wars by design is essentially a sPvP game with a fantastic single player/co-op mode(PvE). The core of that hasn’t changed. Your endgame is PvP, and WvW. The PvE is essentially a collect-a-thon and operative challenge for those who may not want to get in PvP action or take a break from it.
GW2 took the original games PvE content to an entirely different level. It’s probably the first game ever with such elaborate extensive ideas cultivated in a game that is structured around PvP builds.
Granted a lot of things still need to be ironed out but it’s to be expected.

If you also expected WoW like content, I have bad news for you…

Alice.8694:

Kimbald.2697:

Snip

To be honest a lot of the threads I catch you in are about diminishing returns. Full of hype, misinformation, subjective opinion and sensationalism.

These are not conducive methods of giving constructive criticism. They are designed to organise rabble rousing and cause the misinformed to get up in arms about things they don’t understand to try and bully a change through.

This rhetoric is not positive for the community and will not actually achieve anything other than informing the misinformed with negative information.

Being critical is not the same as trying to cause an uproar.
If it is to you, than you’re the one missing something here, not me.

I was in some DR threads, but not to do the things you accuse me of.
My posts are never aimed at being sensational.
The info I gave in the posts here are my own experience at best, so I’m not giving misinformation. I am giving anecdotical information, which i never deny.

Subjective opinion is about the lamest thing to accuse someone of.
What the heck do you think your opinion about me is?
You’re extremely biased and it’s impossible you read my posts with even the slightest hint of being fair to what I wrote.

I’m a very critical person and I see the forums to do just that: provide feedback about the game I bought and like.
If you can’t stand others being critical, just yourself it seems, than don’t bother me with that please.
Your opinion about me is wrong and insulting.

Garo.5304:

If you also expected WoW like content, I have bad news for you…

we didn’t, was never mentioned here that we did.

What is so bad about giving suggestions?

All I ever see, is people who want the game to be insanely dps orientated beyond anything else, and just a game of “who’s got the highest numbers and gear” and not “who’s got the most skill and ability”

They don’t like high hp, because it prevents teams from building glasscannon and being dominant, they hate one shot mechanics because it stops them facetanking etc etc

Every time I see a full signet warrior lfg, I lose a little more of my faith in humanity

As for the c9 video, this looks like a game that is quite literally designed around dps, the entire mechanic of having “weight” seems to be if you’re dealing damage the trash is not going to do anything as it’s launched and tossed about, this in a sense trivialises the difficulty in exchange for a stylised approach which really results in it being a spam fest more “imho”

how many of the skills he’s using, did he think more than half a second on using? aside from his long lasting ultimate form ability thing?

whole thing looked like all style no substance to me, but that’s just my subjective opinion based on what I saw

Alice and Garo: where are your suggestions than?
What do you bring to this thread?

This is not meant as an insult, it’s a friendly question to stay on topic.

I was really surprised that in one topic, someone told me to “go back to wow, I herd there be pandas now”. While I’ve never liked wow, and have been a long term fan of the GW world.

I can’t quite remember what topic it was, but I was actually shocked that someone basically told me to gtkitteno because I dared post some criticism. (basically: the same thing dear Garo a few posts above me is doing right now) It is not what I’m used to from the GW community – but then, I was never very active on the official forums until recently. There is a whole different vibe on forums like Reddit or Guru. For example: when the dungeon speedrun was fixed, people on Guru were saying “they finally fixed the kitten farming exploit”. In here it was “Kitten kitten kitten now I cant farm and the game is broken and reverse it NAO”. The vibe on the servers themselves is very different as well. On my server (Desolation) I often just stand somewhere happily chatting away for hours in map chat with total strangers.

These forums… it’s way too easy to let yourself be dragged down by all the negativity. I’ve come to the point where I know which posters actually provide useful critique, and who is only here to kitten on everything in sight. There is even at least one poster who I know has not played since beta and has gotten a refund (or, that is what he/she claims), but is still going around trashing every topic spewing flame and hate.

I just hope Anet can find it’s way and find the Golden Suggestions between all the trollish excrement in here.

@Hellkaiser ~
While I do agree on the “rag doll” issue’s consistent with true action combat.

At the same time, can you truly say you prefer GW2 to focus on it’s aoe/spam > weighted attacks?

Keep in mind, I’m asking about the “concept”… not just what C9 had to show.. but the concept as a whole.

Think about it.

Right now, content is trivialized.. the events only scale in mob count and hp/dmg.

They don’t get more “tactical” to cater to the amount of people present, but instead.. just make the mobs more “hulkish”.

This is what my suggestion of “fixing combat” revolved around.

My personal feeling is that without “weight”.. your attacks don’t matter, just spam.. but WITH weight, you would also have to have balance!

Otherwise, you just get that whole “rag doll” effect of tossing mobs around “Dynasty Warrior style”.

Though perhaps that could be a good thing?

lol, it all depends on implementation and how they balance the rest of the game around it.

(basing it off the concept that “Combat is a core mechanic the rest of the game must be designed around”).

Curious tho..

If you would like to see some of what I’m talking about… (evolving mechs via “scaling” events) ~ check out my thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Combat-Dynamic-Events-what-s-the-point-if-they-re-easy-mode

NoizeMaker.8367:

Another one of these endgame threads? kitten stick to one thread already. Getting old. You Hardcore content killers are getting old. Go back to rift and wow and games like that already.

The mods should not have to babysit these forums..
If you cannot be bothered to read the OP, then please do NOT reply

Kimbald.2697:

Alice and Garo: where are your suggestions than?
What do you bring to this thread?

This is not meant as an insult, it’s a friendly question to stay on topic.

The suggestions forum, where they belong?

AlexanderFaust.4518:

If you would like to see a good example of Action Combat with “weight” ~ check out this vid of C9.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsxTJPLCJt4

I don’t see any weight in this combat, this is all just needless hitstun. Excessive hitstun does not make good combat.

AlexanderFaust.4518:

NoizeMaker.8367:

Another one of these endgame threads? kitten stick to one thread already. Getting old. You Hardcore content killers are getting old. Go back to rift and wow and games like that already.

The mods should not have to babysit these forums..
If you cannot be bothered to read the OP, then please do NOT reply

I did read the OP. theres about 30 duplicate threads of his post A DAY. grow up please.

NoizeMaker.8367:

AlexanderFaust.4518:

NoizeMaker.8367:

Another one of these endgame threads? kitten stick to one thread already. Getting old. You Hardcore content killers are getting old. Go back to rift and wow and games like that already.

The mods should not have to babysit these forums..
If you cannot be bothered to read the OP, then please do NOT reply

I did read the OP. theres about 30 duplicate threads of his post A DAY. grow up please.

If you had, then you would KNOW that this thread is about GW2 as a whole.

IE: How it plays like a single player game and has mechanics that don’t work well with one another ~ further talking about people/trolls/knights like YOU that are a detriment to the game and it’s community.

TL:DR
Imagine IF the Knights put half as much effort into making legit suggestions to improving GW2 as they do trolling the forums…

Also, if you continue to “troll” this topic or derail it into a flame war, I will not hesitate to report your account.

#Can’t we all just get along?

NoizeMaker.8367:

AlexanderFaust.4518:

NoizeMaker.8367:

Another one of these endgame threads? kitten stick to one thread already. Getting old. You Hardcore content killers are getting old. Go back to rift and wow and games like that already.

The mods should not have to babysit these forums..
If you cannot be bothered to read the OP, then please do NOT reply

I did read the OP. theres about 30 duplicate threads of his post A DAY. grow up please.

If you were tying to make the OP’s point for him, you’ve done an excellent job.

Not sure what you are talking about. In GW2 I’ve seen more “massively multiplayer” than I’ve seen in any other MMO I’ve played since vanilla WoW before battlegrounds.

Unless of course you count queuing for instances from the comfort of your capital “massively multiplayer”.

Guild Wars 2 is an FPS

Currently for me, there are bigger concerns than tweaking mechanics, adding and changing content.

Number one is bugs. I encountered very few on my path to 80, but since then I have encountered more and more day by day.

For example, the event chain (on my server) leading to Arah is bugged so it’s been locked for a week now, preventing myself and many others from completing their personal stories. (Whilst I could change server, wait 24 hours and come back, I shouldn’t have to).

I’d rather focus on reporting all the broken event chains/skill points and dungeons than posting constructive suggestion to improve balance etc.

I’m enjoying the game a great deal, but I really want to see it running smoothly, as intended, before I start making subjective suggestions.

I asked in map chat the other day about a skill challenge that was missing, and everyone said it was bugged, so I said “man this is the third bugged skill challenge I’ve run across today”.

I couldn’t believe the responses. I got called a troll, I was told to go back to wow, I had several people say they blocked me. A couple people kept saying this game has the least amount of bugs ever so to just deal with it. Others said there are plenty of other games to play if I don’t like it, etc. etc.

What is up with these people being so blindly defensive? One negative remark (that wasn’t even really negative) and all hell breaks loose.

I agree with the OP. Most MMO’s like WoW mask their grind with certain tasks. This game has a massive amount of in your face grind, it’s not even funny. Grind the hell out of dungeons for tokens for gear, grind out karma for legendaries and other gear, etc etc. And the best part is, they are not rewarding! Because of diminishing returns, you get kitten karma. For dungeons, when it starts working properly, it will be fine. But..DR on events…seriously? Dungeons don’t drop anything noteworthy either. There’s also all the gold sinks in the game, it’s ridiculous. The social aspect of the game is also kitten. OP is right, you don’t make friends in this game. It plays like a single player game in an online universe rather than an mmo. Mmos useto be reknown because of their social aspect…that doesn’t exist in this game.
I’ve quit the game for now. Until they fix all their issues I won’t be logging in. Borderlands 2 is a thing though XD.

But a suggestion I have is this…create an armor locker for your pve armor skins like what we have available for your pvp armor skins. The whole point of grinding out all this karma, gold, and tokens is for the armor skins. You better kitten well plan on keeping that certain skin forever, because when you want to look different, your current skin gets destroyed. So, why not have an armor skin locker where you can save all the sets your find? That way, you can switch skins whenever you like. Assuming you have the item to do so.

PVE is lacking. WoW Vanilla had triple the amount of PVE on release. 8 10 years ago?

PVP is a invisible ghostfight lag fest

Really the game is messing up on both front’s right now which is not good. People don’t want to pve because the lil content they can do is boring and repetitive.

Nobody want’s to pvp because when it boils down too it people actually want skill in pvp. Zerging into a group an wiping them not because your awesome but because your invisible to them is a joke.

I don’t understand why this type of blatant name-calling and flaming is allowed by the mods. This is the sort of thread that really ruins the tone of the forums for people who just want to discuss the game. A lot of times people take ridiculously over-polarized positions because they are driven there by exactly this type of discussion.

It’s great that you made some suggestions, original poster, but I can’t understand why this thread was needed, other than to call attention to yourself and create another argument.

Arson.4189:

PVE is lacking. WoW Vanilla had triple the amount of PVE on release. 8 10 years ago?

PVP is a invisible ghostfight lag fest

Really the game is messing up on both front’s right now which is not good. People don’t want to pve because the lil content they can do is boring and repetitive.

Nobody want’s to pvp because when it boils down too it people actually want skill in pvp. Zerging into a group an wiping them not because your awesome but because your invisible to them is a joke.

As someone who played WoW at release please don’t talk kittens.

V1. WoW lacked alot of content, most of the dungeons were buggy. Maraudon, Scholomance, LBRS/UBRS and Dire Maul were content patches that appeared weeks/months later. And the first raid didn’t appear for a very very long time.

I started this game with friends and family, so for me, it has been an MMO from the beginning. However, it is difficult to grow our guild due to the nature of the way you can group without really grouping. Would I change that with how the mobs are spaced and aggro’d so easily? No, I wouldn’t. I think for the way the game is designed, the “auto grouping”/“non-grouping” works exactly as intended.

Do I enjoy the game more when I have friends or family in vent/mumble? Absolutely!

So, what would I change about the game if given the keys for a day?

1. Make Orr a little easier to get around without being attacked every 10 feet and all mobs on a super short respawn timer.
2. Create a guild registry for people looking for guilds and guilds looking for people. Building a guild seems more challenging in this environment.
3. Revamp crafting to make them a little less complicated and mat intensive at lower levels. I used to craft a lot in WoW, started in GW2 and gave it up early. Decided it wasn’t enjoyable nor profitable.

A short list of some of the things I like and wouldn’t change:
1. Non-grouping for major events. Randomly helping others is epic. Just coordinating where to meet and the objective for a major clash in Orr is fun and doesn’t take hours to plan.
2. WvW is great! No complaints or suggestions there.
3. Personal Story is good fun and easy to help others with.
4. Vistas and puzzles are great. Love to be able to enjoy the actual artwork by seeing it through the Vistas.
5. No mounts. I actually don’t miss them a bit.
6. Way point travel.
7. Map completion rewards.
8. Objectives and Achievements.
9. Clothing options, transformations, and weapon skills.
10. Ease of respec’ing and trying different “talents”/builds.
11. Guild functionality (although building a guild is challenging in this environment).

Although the list is longer, I will stop there.

But what the white knights/fans don’t seem to account for::
1. World Events, Bosses, Dungeons have No risk / Reward loot.
2. Stale (Spamfest/zerg) combat, trivializes encounters, events and even dungeons to some extent.
3. Can’t ever put together a group or find people to actually have “fun” in the world, anyways =/

I’m sorry that you feel this way, but all of these points are personal problems, not problems with the game.

1. If you want risk, then take risks. Everyone can stand at max range and just spam one button in any game, and then claim there’s a minimal risk. If you are making the game boring, you can’t really blame the game for that. You could also choose run around and revive people, or play melee and get up in the bosses face. The game has, and never will be, about rewards. The game is build for people who enjoy the gameplay first, and then consider rewards as a bonus. Computer games are not a gamble, they are meant for entertainment in the same way a book is.

2. The majority of MMOs are about dealing damage, but just like point 1, it doesn’t have to be only about that. It’s a bit ironic that you have a choice to play any role with any profession in Guild Wars 2, yet you make a choice to only play a damage dealer, the role that requires the least risk. Why not make a different choice? Instead if spamming the door until it goes down in Worlds PvP, you could run around all over the map and take Mercenary and Supply Camps instead. A task that revolves a lot more risk.

3. Have you tried having a conversation with people first, and actually get to know them? If a random guy comes up and say “do you want to do a group event”, no one is going to react, because thanks to the removal of the holy trinity, they aren’t forced to anymore. So just like in the real world, you have to actually make friends with other players. Then when you ask if they want to join you, they’ll know you are a great person, and will want to play with you for that reason.

Kasama.8941:

1. If you want risk, then take risks. Everyone can stand at max range and just spam one button in any game, and then claim there’s a minimal risk. If you are making the game boring, you can’t really blame the game for that. You could also choose run around and revive people, or play melee and get up in the bosses face. The game has, and never will be, about rewards. The game is build for people who enjoy the gameplay first, and then consider rewards as a bonus. Computer games are not a gamble, they are meant for entertainment in the same way a book is.

I agree 100% on this. Too many people play MMOs as a numbers game anymore. They aren’t looking for a unique class, they are looking for the highest DPS with the least amount of effort so they can power through content as fast as possible.

Some don’t even try the different classes! They just search the forums or “build” sites to find a high DPS class, never mind what the class even is.

Gone are the days of actually role-playing in a role-playing game, it’s all about big numbers, shiny loot, and unlimited content these days. GW2 is trying to change that mindset, but I don’t know if it’ll be able to unbrainwash todays modern MMO player.

Kasama.8941:

But what the white knights/fans don’t seem to account for::
1. World Events, Bosses, Dungeons have No risk / Reward loot.
2. Stale (Spamfest/zerg) combat, trivializes encounters, events and even dungeons to some extent.
3. Can’t ever put together a group or find people to actually have “fun” in the world, anyways =/

I’m sorry that you feel this way, but all of these points are personal problems, not problems with the game.

1. If you want risk, then take risks. Everyone can stand at max range and just spam one button in any game, and then claim there’s a minimal risk. If you are making the game boring, you can’t really blame the game for that. You could also choose run around and revive people, or play melee and get up in the bosses face. The game has, and never will be, about rewards. The game is build for people who enjoy the gameplay first, and then consider rewards as a bonus. Computer games are not a gamble, they are meant for entertainment in the same way a book is.

2. The majority of MMOs are about dealing damage, but just like point 1, it doesn’t have to be only about that. It’s a bit ironic that you have a choice to play any role with any profession in Guild Wars 2, yet you make a choice to only play a damage dealer, the role that requires the least risk. Why not make a different choice? Instead if spamming the door until it goes down in Worlds PvP, you could run around all over the map and take Mercenary and Supply Camps instead. A task that revolves a lot more risk.

3. Have you tried having a conversation with people first, and actually get to know them? If a random guy comes up and say "do you want to do a group event", no one is going to react, because thanks to the removal of the holy trinity, they aren’t forced to anymore. So just like in the real world, you have to actually make friends with other players. Then when you ask if they want to join you, they’ll know you are a great person, and will want to play with you for that reason.

Ok.. uh, I’m not sure you’re reading what I wrote.

When I talk about "Risk Vs Reward" ~ I’m saying that content that’s "labeled" as challenging (elite mobs/dungeons/ect) the rewards don’t meet how hard the content is touted to be.

Basically, this has nothing to do with "my" playstyle or how much "risk" I’m taking.
(the rewards are trivial).

Point #2 looks beyond that and makes reference that the game isn’t immersive and more often then not, you just don’t feel like "you" matter.

IE: ~ ZERGS kill mobs.. NOT skill, NOT class choice, NOT gear sets/ect... it’s all about spamming and zerging down events, mobs and combat in general.

*Please know that I’m NOT saying GW2 needs the trinity.. I’m making reference that YOU don’t matter.. the choices YOU make are irrelevant to the outcome.*

IE: No real tactics involved.. just spam/aoe.

Point #3 was my biggest problem... in that I can look past a game thats not as immersive as I would like.. and I would even be fine with grinding some dungeons for nothing more than some neat looking skin...

but.. unfortunately, I’ve been playing since pre-launch and the only dungeon I’ve EVER found a group for.. is AC.

Even then, I was only able to do it a few times.. before people lost interest and stopped caring bout them.

Would I like to run all the dungeons?.. HELL YEA!.. can I actually find a group or guild that wants too?... nope.

I’ve even jumped from server to server, guild to guild over the past month.. looking for people that’re interested.. and more often then not, it’s like pulling teeth.. (IE: No one wants to, cause it’s not really "worth it").

People just don’t want to bother with dungeons or events that don’t have at least "something" at the end of it ~ via a chest or awesome skin/weapon/ect ~ (risk vs reward)

Do you see how all 3 of those points are connected?

IE: If the content is repetitive or grindish.. people will still do it, IF they it’s at least a little "fun" (subjective) but if it’s not, then they’ll just look for the "easiest" content via how much effort they have to put into something Vs. what they get out of it.

1. Grind?
2. Fun?
3. Reward?

lol, Sorry for the long read.. if perhaps, you need me to explain something specific about this what I wrote above, feel free ta ask.

Making games isn’t easy.. nor is explaining mob mentality or "why" a game is or is not perceived as "fun".

I think the GW1 fans want GW2 to be a tiny, hidden closet on the internet, and luckily for them, the anet team is working hard to make sure that happens as quickly as possible. =/

I constantly play with people I don’t know. Like, I can be working on a Task (golden heart), and some people show up and help me, and we both kill enemies or gather materials or whatever so we can both finish the Task. This goes for Dynamic events, too.

Personally, I love this new system more than GW1. Here, I can actually work with strangers on completing tasks, dynamic events, or just killing random mobs on my way from one location to another, and I don’t have to worry about managing parties or whatever. It’s really nice and convenient.

TL;DR – It’s nothing like a single player game. This game is the epitome of multiplayer. At least, in my experience.

Kaine.3501:

Guild Wars 2 is an FPS

Better start with this mentality if you want to start enjoying the game, seriously.

@People like Kasama, that want to know more about game mechanics and how something is BAD in one situation.. but AWESOME in another.

Arson.4189:

Lol alice. I think maybe the years have gotten to you.

MC was available upon release. Sounds like you don’t know much.
My guild was the FIRST guild to down Rag worldwide. April 25th, 2005.
WoW was released in November 2004. 5 months it took to complete the dungeon. People completed the dungeons and quit this game within a 1 month.

Umma actually I think the only one that wasn’t available upon release there was Dire maul.

And yes WoW had bugs. In 2004.

It’s 2012 btw the standards of MMO’s has changed a lil. So whos talkin crap? me who knows the facts or you who has no concept of time.

All games have bugs, the date they release is irrelevant. Wasn’t so long ago fallout new vegas released… That was buggy as hell.

You are right about the core and so on, seems I was being thrown off because of attunements.
This being said, it still had considerably less content.
And Maraudon and Dire maul were definitely content patches according to the official site. Maraudon was 1.1 and dire maul was 1.2.

This big experimental project called Guild Wars 2.

its a grate foundation for a grater game. there’s alot of new ( re-imagined) idea’s hear and they just need time in order to be flushed out. in order for that to happen the dev’s need feedback.

we already know Anet is willing to lisson

Truth of the world, you can’t make everyone happy; people will leave regardless.

AlexanderFaust.4518:

-snip-

The rewards don’t fit with the challenge, because the focus of the game is not the rewards, but the challenge. Do you expect to get a price after you read a book, as well? No, of curse not, because reading the book is the reward itself. And likewise, playing the game is the true reward, the rewards you get for completing a task is a bonus. The problem is your mentality towards the game, because in other games you are use to getting a biscuit, every time you preform a trick. You should look at it from a perspective and ask yourself; why are you playing a game, if you are only enjoying it for the rewards you get?

It might be that you aren’t suggesting that Guild Wars 2 needs a holy trinity system, but that is still what you expect from it. So the solution is, quite obviously, that you need to change your approach towards the game. If you think that “zergs” kill mobs too easily, then stop being part of one! Gather a group of three to five players, and head of in a different direction. PvE, and Worlds PvP, has never been about skill, but about exploring the world and playing with your friends. That’s why these modes are balanced loosely. If you want to test your skills, then try out Structured PvP instead. It requires much more attention to detail.

I’ve played in dungeons five times now, and I’ve never had any problem finding a group of people. I just run up to the dungeon and asks if anyone has a spare spot. It doesn’t take more then a few minutes (sometimes seconds) before I get a party invite. I’m not sure what you are doing different? Further more, every party I’ve been in has had some great people who were easy to talk to, and to plan tactics with. Everyone would listen to each other, and ask if everyone was ready before proceeding to fight a boss. And everyone were prepared to do what needed to be done, in order to proceed. Including sacrificing yourself in order to revive someone, and changing skills and/or playstyle in order to best take down a boss.

The connection you are making is all in your head. You are just making assumptions based an a bad experience with the game. I don’t recognize the problems you are mentioning. The players I’ve talked to. and played with, have all be prepared to do what was needed to be done, in order to get the most out of the game. I have yet to met any lazy players, who existed on taking the easy way out. And if I do, I won’t be around them for very long.

Grind is all in the hands of the player. The only time a game can force you to grind, is if it doesn’t introduce any other options of playing. In Guild Wars 2, you don’t have to play a dungeon thirty times in a row, you can choose do other things in between. You also have to eat food everyday, but that doesn’t mean you should to eat the same food each time. That would become boring for anyone. Instead, you can choose to eat pizza on monday, and lasagna on tuesday, which is arguably a lot more “fun”. And that mentality is the same in a game. If you can choose not to grind, then why do it?

Kasama.8941:

AlexanderFaust.4518:

-snip-

Stuff

Seems you’re missing the point… and you aren’t willing to look at GW2 subjectively.. as you’d rather blindly defend their choices..

IE: Say that it’s “all in my head” ~

While personally, this isn’t a bad thing.. (you enjoy how it is) at the same time, it’s not constructive nor is it beneficial to helping GW2 evolve over the next few years.

IE: If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it ~ mentality.

Seems you’re missing the point… and you aren’t willing to look at GW2 subjectively.. as you’d rather blindly defend their choices..
IE: Say that it’s “all in my head” ~
While personally, this isn’t a bad thing.. (you enjoy how it is) at the same time, it’s not constructive nor is it beneficial to helping GW2 evolve over the next few years.
IE: If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it ~ mentality.

I have no reason to look at it subjectively, I see the game for what it is to me. Just because my point of view is different from yours, it doesn’t mean that I’m wrong. It just means we’ve had different experiences. What I’m saying to you is simply; before complaining that the game should force you to do something specific, make the effort to change it yourself first. I.e. if you think that zergs are boring, then stop being a part of them.

Saying that my point of view isn’t constructive is saying that I have no point of view, which is obviously wrong. I’m sure ArenaNet can see that both our points are equally valuable. There is no right or wrong here.

If they were to straight up reply to suggestions, everyone would assume they’re getting in.
Since 1 designer can’t really say that until they talk it over, it’d just be best to read the posts and not reply.

@Kasama
I never said, I was right and you were wrong ~ I implied that you aren’t willing to look at it subjectively.. yet you were posting a counter argument on a topic that talks about::
Identifying possible problem mechanics within GW2 and to encourage the community to offer up suggestions that could improve the game.

But to quote you:

I have no reason to look at it subjectively, I see the game for what it is to me.

Basically says that you like the current direction of the game and see no reason to change anything.

Which is fine
but it’s not a very constructive outlook to have, because you’re more inclined to tell anyone with an opinion/critique of GW2 that “it’s all in their head”.

Basically limiting GW2’s potential to what it is now, rather than what it can be in the future *(years from now).

@rook

“This game is first and foremost a pvp game with pve content. It won’t appeal to the 50% of mmo players and it’s about time people come to terms with that.”

Interesting conclusion, given the game is actually about 85% PvE only and 15% PvP. It only becomes a “PvP game” when the PvE aspects have been exhausted and there’s nothing else to do. That includes pursuing legendaries, which just tries to shoehorn PvE enthusiasts into WvW, when there’s nothing much else for them to do.

It’s a fun PvE game from 1 to 80+ (depending on how many dungeons you want to run), but anything beyond that, it’s PvP. So yeah, it’s kind of BS to say the play experience doesn’t change once you reach a certain point. In other games, you may be grinding on raids until new content appears, but in this one, you will be grinding on WvW.

@Kasama
I never said, I was right and you were wrong ~ I implied that you aren’t willing to look at it subjectively.. yet you were posting a counter argument on a topic that talks about::
Identifying possible problem mechanics within GW2 and to encourage the community to offer up suggestions that could improve the game.

But to quote you:

I have no reason to look at it subjectively, I see the game for what it is to me.

Says that you like the current direction of the game and see no reason to change anything.

Which is fine
but it’s not a very constructive outlook to have, because you’re more inclined to tell anyone with an opinion/critique of GW2 that “it’s all in their head”.

Basically limiting GW2’s potential to what it is now, rather than what it can be in the future *(years from now).

Blacklight.2871:

@rook

“This game is first and foremost a pvp game with pve content. It won’t appeal to the 50% of mmo players and it’s about time people come to terms with that.”

Interesting conclusion, given the game is actually about 85% PvE only and 15% PvP. It only becomes a “PvP game” when the PvE aspects have been exhausted and there’s nothing else to do. That includes pursuing legendaries, which just tries to shoehorn PvE enthusiasts into WvW, when there’s nothing much else for them to do.

It’s a fun PvE game from 1 to 80+ (depending on how many dungeons you want to run), but anything beyond that, it’s PvP. So yeah, it’s kind of BS to say the play experience doesn’t change once you reach a certain point. In other games, you may be grinding on raids until new content appears, but in this one, you will be grinding on WvW.

You can pvp at any level, anytime. There are even different varieties of pvp: spvp, tpvp, and wvwvw. The original Guild Wars title was a pvp game.

At its roots, Guild Wars is a pvp game.