please give more OPTIONS to craft a legendary.

please give more OPTIONS to craft a legendary.

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Posted by: Windklinge.4076

Windklinge.4076

i am not a native english speaker so please forgive any grammer issues or other typos and i hope you can unterstand what i am trying to bring up here.

before you are reading what i am typing now please remember this is just a suggestion on my part since i want the game to stay entertaining and not become a mindless gold grinder to some degree. i dont want anything to get handed out to easily either i dont mind inveting many hours to get something unless its boring as crap.
i dont wann start a flame war here. i am just trying to give the developers at anet IDEAS. theres no need to make it excatly like i suggest them now these will be just examples.

also this suggestions would take care of the botting problems to a degree since removing the dependancy on so many gold removes the need to have many gold entirely which in the end will discourage buying it.

first lets look at the current situation we have now :

theres many people already that have seen and want a legendary weapon or even two of em.
currently you need already many items to build your own legendary weapon and have to meet certain conditions also in the world. these items are called “gifts of XXXX”
i am not gonna list everything need to build a legendary here now since this is already well known around the web by now.

first things first : everyone SHOULD be able to get a legendary for thier character IF they are willing to put in a certain amount of EFFORT. it should never be dependant to something like pure dumb luck (mystic clovers/legendary pre named exotics e.g dusk of rage or wvw badgets which are also pretty random) or dependant on pure ingame curreny like it is currently the case. everyone should be able to get one with the SAME amount of effort put it no matter what they like or dedice do to more.

currently some people just LUCK out and get something like this 10x faster than others this system is just not very fair and it frustrates to some kind. yes i know this mechanik was used in many mmos of the past to some degree but as anet stated long before release they wanted to “break” the old rules set by most mmos. so please dont argue about this. you can still keep an item rare without the dumb mechanics of outdated RNG methods.

i am not saying remove current method as it would ruin the effort already put in by some players by now. just more OPTIONS.

what i want to suggest here is that the game should give the players more OPTIONS to acquire the gifts/pre exotics needed to craft the item at the end. all currently availble options can stay as well no need to remove them for now. so players who already put in a certain effort (including myself -.-) dont lose it.

remember these are just examples what anet could offer as options.

an example.

you need the gift of battle. currently you have to grind 500 wvw badges to get this thing. you can either mindlessly grind the jumping puzzles for weeks on end or do wvw normally and hope to get lucky with the drops of these.

some people can not particpate in wvw very well due to the poor performance or some older computers. so it would be fair to offer another option to get this item via pve for example.

remember these are NOT final values just examples given by me to make you unterstand what i want. they need to be balanced accordingly of course. theres no need to add a ton of new content to get these changes working just changing some things around and adding to lists. not even a need to change the final recipe in the forge at the end.

please give more OPTIONS to craft a legendary.

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Posted by: Windklinge.4076

Windklinge.4076

now to the examples :

for example you could get a gift of battle ASWELL from farming lets say 2000 instance tokens of a certain instance. this could be refined to use either ANY instance or a specific one.

OR you could get it from lets say bringing FOUR jobs to max level.

the same should be done with all of the other gifts aswell OR the materials needed to create them.

the same goes for the legendary pre rare exotics that are needed. make them gettable via instance tokens a specific recipe in the mystic forge or via karma. give OPTIONS.

of course these ways all need to be balanced to a certain degree but it would the players allow to play want they LIKE the most of the games content to get the legendary in the end. it will still take them a lot of time to get one. thats how it should be.

the same goes for the ice runestones currently needed to craft a legendary. 100 of them cost a whoping 100 gold. keep this at it is but also offer other way to get those. via instance tokens (not ONE token of course would be to easy) or via wvw badgets or via karma. give OPTIONS.

same goes for the gift of exploration tough i actually like they way to get them this shouldnt be the only one.
make it purcasable by wvw badgets aswell but not 500 lets say 1000 or something like that so that the time investment is atleast around the same as exploring the entire pve world 100%

make some of the rarer crafting mats purchasble via karma oder via instance tokens in return make the karma shards gettable otherwise aswell.

could also give a gift of choice for doing all explorer modes of ALL instances in the game for example.
make mystic clovers gettable via skill points from the vendor directly or also from instance tokens.

i hope you guys now realize that i just want to have more OPTIONS to reach the goal at the end. it shoudlnt be faster to get than currently in terms of game hours invested it should just allow me to CHOOSE which route i want to follow to get the items needed. it should allow to decide if i want to risk my luck and a get a bit faster to my goal or take the maybe a bit longer but safer route.

some people love to do wvw some do love to do pve instances etc etc. you get what i mean i hope. everyone could play what THEY like the most and still earn thier reward at the end without getting it handed out. something smiliar could be done to cultural armor sets aswell to some degree (have seen people arguing about thier gold prices aswell here).

yes i know some day this would lead to many people having a legendary but by that time i am sure we will already see many new content added to the game even new high effort based things. keep this in mind.

thank you for reading all of this wall of text and feel free to comment but dont start a flame war. if you are aganist my suggestion give a explanation not just say no i dont want that please. and remember my examples where just THAT. examples to give the developers ideas.

(edited by Windklinge.4076)

please give more OPTIONS to craft a legendary.

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Posted by: Windklinge.4076

Windklinge.4076

oh i didnt include spvp here since its completly seperated from the rest of the game and i am not even sure if you can get legendary styles in spvp.

sry forgot to add that.

please give more OPTIONS to craft a legendary.

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Posted by: Windklinge.4076

Windklinge.4076

updated topic name was a bit to long to read ^^

please give more OPTIONS to craft a legendary.

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Posted by: Kal.2376

Kal.2376

Considering legendaries are not any more powerful than other exotic items, I do not think there is any need for a change.

This will actually keep legendaries more legendary. If everyone can craft one, then it kind of stops being legendary.

I say keep the current system, including luck based drops and everything. Keep legendaries as rare items.

please give more OPTIONS to craft a legendary.

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Posted by: Windklinge.4076

Windklinge.4076

did you even fully read my post mate? i never said anything about removeing the current system…. whats RARE about something that anyone can get super easy by spending real money on the goldsellers anyway?

(edited by Windklinge.4076)

please give more OPTIONS to craft a legendary.

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Posted by: Windklinge.4076

Windklinge.4076

bringing this up again i dont see any reason to not give more options. they could aswell take longer than current ones IF they are 100% save instead.

please give more OPTIONS to craft a legendary.

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Posted by: GADefence.5634

GADefence.5634

Legendaries are by design grindy – I think that UNLESS ANET KEEPS NERFING EVERYTHING WE DO FOR INCOME they were perfectly ok to get before hand. Right now, we need more ectos injected into the system due to the ludicrously hard rate most people have of getting them.

please give more OPTIONS to craft a legendary.

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Posted by: Cancer.9065

Cancer.9065

“also this suggestions would take care of the botting problems to a degree since removing the dependancy on so many gold removes the need to have many gold entirely which in the end will discourage buying it.”

See, your problem is right here.

Anet also profits from gold selling, so the more gold you need for cosmetic purposes the more money they (may) get. While I don’t think your suggestion are invalid (nor do I support them) You have to understand that the need for gold will not change.

My suggestion is to take a laid back approach, hopefully this game will be around for quite some time and you will be able to make one of this by simply playing regularly (while of course saving what you know needs saving)

Cancer is also a Zodiac sign.

please give more OPTIONS to craft a legendary.

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Posted by: Kal.2376

Kal.2376

Actually, legendaries should be harder to get. They should require you to max crafting, get lots of dungeon tokens, WvW objectives. sPVP ranks. Only people that play (and excel) in all areas of the game should deserve a legendary.

So when we see a legendary, we see a player that really explored all aspects of the game, not just one or 2.

please give more OPTIONS to craft a legendary.

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Posted by: phild.7862

phild.7862

Prepare for a long read.

I actually started a similar thread over at the German forum right after I lost another 70g at the mystic forge. Before that I already lost 20g. What did I try and how did I lose all that gold? Well, I tried to build a precursor.
Why am I telling this right at the beginning? Because I fully admit that I am mad. I am mad about all that gold I lost and will never see again. I am mad that if I decide to buy a precursor now I will have paid something around 200g for my precursor.
There is no point in pointing out that I am just mad and my arguments aren’t valid because of that.

Secondly I want you all to keep the following in mind: Developers are human. Human beings make mistakes. Just because someone does a certain job he is not automatically perfect in what he does and/or his ideas aren’t automatically better than those of someone who doesn’t have the same job.
There is a huge portion of the Guild Wars 2 playerbase that is playing MMOs for years now. That is passionate about it. There are creative people and clever people and for years now MMO players have proven that they are capable of helping developers making great games.
The most successful MMO in history for example actually hired MMO players to make their game the success it was.
What I want to say is this: I believe that MMOs aren’t develop-release games. They are more like a dialogue between the developers and the players. Both sides have to listen to each other in order to make a truly great game.

It is almost ridiculous that I have to write that much just to prevent all the common troll attempts like “XYdrone” “fanboyism” etc etc. But I really hope we can actually discuss the current (in my opinion flawed system) with real argumentation and without ad hominem crap we are all tired of by now.

Now to the topic.
I FULLY AGREE with Windklinge about this: the current process of acquiring a legendary is a joke, badly designed and nothing but a big endless grind for gold.
This is not acceptable for a game like Guild Wars 2 that actually advertised with being new and innovative.

This is no accurate quote but I always remember something like this has been said about legendaries: “…for the most dedicated players.” “…have to master all aspects of the game.”

“To master all aspects of the game” this is what really bothers me. Because it is actually like admitting that the game is about grinding. ArenaNet promised us no more tedious kill/collect quests and now we get Grind Wars. Why am I saying this? Because right now everything you need for your legedary except one present and two kinds of token can be substituted by gold. Some of the materials aren’t even farmable like certain lodestones so you are actually forced to farm gold to get enough of them.
And if everything can be substituted by gold “to master all aspects of the game” suddenly becomes “master the main aspect of the game” and this is: farming gold.

And before anyone starts with “but the gifts of exploration, the dungeon token and the WvW token”. Since there is a jump puzzle that gives you WvW tokens you don’t need to master WvW to get the 500 tokens. Since you only need one dungeon per legendary you don’t need to master all the dungeons. Since everyone can rush from poi to poi you don’t need to master the world in order to get your gifts.
If I asked 10 people who played GW1 if they know where Kilroy is buried I bet less then half of them could answer me right. In my understanding mastering exploration should be more than just chasing littel symbols on the map.

Same goes for the dungeons, why do you only need one dungeon for each legendary?
This is so stupid I would actually really like to know who decided this.
I mean lets compare the two options:

The gifts cost, lets say 250 tokens but you need every gift out of every dungeon to craft the “Gift of Dungeon Mastery”.

or

You have to run one dungeon 3 days for one gift.

Now my question is this: which option tells that you mastered the dungeon aspect of the game? And I am fully aware of option A being harder and taking more time but how can someone say he mastered PvE if he hasn’t even set one foot into Arah for example.

And now to WvW. I am okay with jump puzzles. To be honest I love them. But lets take a look at two options again:

You run WvW with a strong server and zerg a lot for your tokens. Then you go and jump jump jump your way with several characters to 500 tokens.

or

You actually have to defend and attack towers, kill players, destroy gates and gather tokens on top of that.

Which option shows that you mastered WvW? Of course the one where you actually have to do what WvW is about, option B.

please give more OPTIONS to craft a legendary.

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Posted by: phild.7862

phild.7862

Now back to the gold problem and the general idea of farming/grinding.
Farming is tedious. Farming isn’t fun. The reward is the fun part. Working hard for something, grinding for nights with movies or music and energy drinks or coffee or whatever poison you prefer until you get your shiny epic reward, lean back and say something like “kitten yes, I did it”.
Some of us know that feeling. I did this many times. To be honest (and please refrain from flames) the last time I did something like this was back when I still played WoW and wanted my fox kit. When I finally saw the blue text and learned it I was so happy and all the pain was gone. That cute little fellow was a worthy reward.
As I said, some people know that feeling, some don’t. I love it and as stupid as doing something over and over again for a virtual reward might be I have fun doing it.

So what went wrong in Guild Wars 2?

First of all, grinding and farming should be specific. If I need something specific I should farm something specific.
The problem right now is that everything is substitutable. This leads to us not farming the specific items but gold. We all farm the same spots that are the most profitable. We all do the same thing for the whole grind and simply buy everything we need off the tradepost.
This leads to crowded event farming/bombing and crowded troll farming.
Why should I kill beasts for my claws if I can trade every blood I find for 10 claws?
Why should I kill elementals for my lodestones if I can farm money worth 10 lodestones before I see even one lodestone drop?
You see the flaw?

I seriously hope ArenaNet is not becoming like some other company that is making games to support their store. If I every
find out, that ArenaNet is actually keeping things just to keep the store and the buying of gems/gold running I will be done with ArenaNet just as I am done with some other games/companies.

The point about farming should be that you have to farm different areas. That you can farm where you like to be. That you are NOT FORCED to stay 24/7 in Orr.
I am 100% sure ArenaNet is aware of the community being sick of 24/7 undead and their hook of fun. I am 100% sure ArenaNet knows that we actually don’t want to do the same events over and over and over and over again.

I already saw ideas like loot and event rewards being completely based on your level. And while I know that this might lead to other problems I would actually love to farm my karma in different areas. To explore all the events I missed. To get back to Ascalon, the Shiverpeaks and all the other zones I am missing right now while staring at corals and undead.

I think you get my point, the grinding for the legendaries is not the problem. The way grinding works in Guild Wars 2 right now is the problem.

Two more points an I’ll be done.

First and finally, the precursors.
As I said I put about 90g into the forge. 90g is still a huge amount of gold. I know there are people who have far more and spent far more but I know a lot of players who did not even break the 10g since release.
With those 90g I got 5 rare exotic skins. Two of them twice. I was mad, really mad. I was mad that I lost all my gold and I was mad that I got something two times before getting something else even once.
I was mad that I know someone who threw in 4 rare greatswords and got a Dusk out of it.

(edited by phild.7862)

please give more OPTIONS to craft a legendary.

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Posted by: phild.7862

phild.7862

Years ago I learned something: when the droprate for something is lower than a certain number there is no point in farming for it. When the droprate is so low there is only one group of players who have access to it. Random players with criminal luck.

Why is this a problem you might ask?

Well, lets say we have 1000 players. Out of those 1000 only 100 consider getting a legendary. Out of those 100 only 10 will actually have the endurance to make it. Out of those 10 none gets a precursor. No, the precursor randomly drops for someone out of the 900 who don’t even want to build a legendary. That person will only want one thing, profit. Since there is no way to get the precursors the price is totally random and as high as the average gold amount of the 10 people goes.
When GW2 started the price was less then half as high as it is now.
Right now as I am writing this there is one on the tradepost for 175g. A few days ago it was 150g. Before that only 120g. Before that 100g, 80g, 60g.
Gold inflation doesn’t work that fast. The reason for the price is simply greed. People want to make the most out of the “dedicated” players.

So, if the price rises and rises, there should be a point where it is better to craft it on you own. Lets say with 200g you should be able to pull one out of the forge.

Wrong. That is where ArenaNet failed. A good RNG should prevent anomalies. Like when I pull 100 numbers I don’t want to have …1 2 2 9 1 9 9 9 9 9 2 4… somewhere in there. Same goes for the case in which I pull 100 numbers and there is not a single 9 in there.
As far as my understanding of the forge goes, it is just a lazy RNG. Else I wouldn’t have pulled two times the same worthless skins before getting a different one.
I know this might be explained with different chances but somehow I think the forge is just random. I would love to hear someone from ArenaNet explain it to me and prove me wrong.

I am 100% sure that there might be people who will throw up to 500g into the forge without getting their precursor.

And this is: not fair.

My opinion is, that there should be a fixed amount of money that should grant you the precursor. Be it via recipe or other means.
My opinion is, that this recipe should be easily accessible but hard to craft. (This is just to prevent people losing money trying to find the recipe. There are no hints for what might work in the forge out in the game and as long as those don’t exist trial and error is just a lazy excuse for a mechanic)

On to the last point.

Why no quests? Why no story? This seems lazy and for a MMO released in 2012 this is actually… well, strange.
There is nothing more to add. Legendaries should have a story. They should have a background. You should know that.

I want the legendaries to be rare. I want them to be as hard as possible to get.
When I finally have mine I want to lean back and say, kitten that was hard but totally worth it to have a worthless shiny virtual blade.

But I expected more from ArenaNet. Far more.
ArenaNet and certain individuals are directly responsible for me doing what I am doing now. You guys (especially two of you) inspire me.

I want GW2 to be what you promised us. Truly unique, epic and memorable.

(edited by phild.7862)

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Posted by: SilverRule.7426

SilverRule.7426

I have to agree, someone could get the mystic clovers in 75ish tries by being extremely lucky, and then someone else could do it 10,000 times. Giving the person making a legendary more options than just dumb luck would be beneficial.

please give more OPTIONS to craft a legendary.

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Posted by: Phy.2913

Phy.2913

WHY are you emphasizing every OTHER word LIKE this? It’s REALLY annoying to READ.