90% of all gamers have played TF2 at least once, ever played those servers that prevent you from choosing a profession if 1-2 players already are one? This is what I propose.
As we all know sPvP is unplayable if you’re anything but a Mesmer or thief. So lets go ahead and cap this issue. If there’s already 2 of your profession in the battle already (on your team of course) then you get a lovely little “GTFO take your Mesmer somewhere else” message. Though to be honest, seeing 2 mesmers on the other team is already leave-worthy for me. Also, I know I’m referencing TF2 a bit, but seeing your opponents team make up would be a good idea IMO, so when you see 2 mes and 2 thieves you can go right ahead and pick a different server, and of course vice versa when you see a well balanced team that will actually be FUN to fight.
A similar method could be applied to tPvP in which the profession limit is one, much more realistic to apply to a 5 man team compared to the sPvP 8 man.
This would provide more opportunity for people to excel at other professions rather than going straight for the easy options.
Two Mesmers is an absolutely rubbish composition once you hit a half decent level of play.
Oh, you’re talking about hotjoin, yes?
Then why does it matter? Nobody plays to win in hotjoin. Why on earth should they change the game in a mode where for example on capricon the entire team caps their close and zergs to far together?
Just scrap hotjoin and let people learn how to play the game. It would fix so many of the issues people have with multiple Mesmers.
ps: theoretically the best class for hotjoin should be ele/ranger, considering their roaming ability+being the strongest 1v1ers. Phantasmal, while a strong 1v1build (not as good as ranger though!) is absolutely rubbish for everything else.
I think you overestimate the capability of mesmers and unfairly label them as overpowered.
The gimmicky mind wrack builds suffer from hard cap on critical damage in spvp, confusion has takekitten0% nerf, and retaliation clone mesmers don’t really work any more.
Btw, not a mesmer, I’m a guardian. I get destroyed by mesmers in 1v1 all the time in wvw where they are MUCH more powerful but I don’t blame balance issues. At this point in time I’m willing to say no class is blatantly overpowered and some minor fixes are all that are needed.
I’m not saying mesmers are OP’d, I’m saying both thieves and mesmers are plain old irritating to fight. Wading into a sea of illusions and clones is beyond absurd. Fighting an enemy you can’t see is not fun, nor for that matter is playing as a profession that hides most of the time.
As you just said the best teams are balanced, so enforce balance? I’m talking about fun here, sure you may WIN against the team, but it most certainly was not fun (I know I know “winning isn’t everything” lame guy I am.) When I kill a Mesmer/thief it’s a “ugh, finally” moment. When I kill or even lose to a profession other than those that used genuine skill, that’s a “gg” moment.
Double mesmer is annoying to face? W a T? The clones melt to your aoe during the teamfights and the mesmers end up being easy targets. If you’re aware of the mesmers distortion (he has two.) and communicate with your team (or solo spike for that matter, they are glass canons after all) for a spike once his defensive cooldowns are up you’ll be able to bring him down right away. Is that unsatisfying play?
You’re arguing from hotjoin experience. Hotjoin experience is not Guild Wars 2. It’s just a messed up project that is handicapping this games pvp from reaching any form of success.
only advantage double mesmers bring is double portal and double time warp (idk I’ve seen more and more mesmers bring mass invisibility) and double illusion of life (dem illusions XD) and mesmers have 3 distortions >.> blurred frenzy and 2 distortions cause of shatter recharge at 50% hp. In addition! double thief doesn’t work well since they’re pretty much unrez-able if they die in a team fight. Even if you do rez with signet or illusion (cause you’re not gonna hard rez one if they know where thief is downed lol) one, they’ll go down soon after if you don’t let them stealth and have shadowstep on cd.
edit: didn’t realize he was talking about hotjoins in particular and thinking of extending it to tournies.
I’m not saying mesmers are OP’d, I’m saying both thieves and mesmers are plain old irritating to fight. Wading into a sea of illusions and clones is beyond absurd. Fighting an enemy you can’t see is not fun, nor for that matter is playing as a profession that hides most of the time.
As you just said the best teams are balanced, so enforce balance? I’m talking about fun here, sure you may WIN against the team, but it most certainly was not fun (I know I know “winning isn’t everything” lame guy I am.) When I kill a Mesmer/thief it’s a “ugh, finally” moment. When I kill or even lose to a profession other than those that used genuine skill, that’s a “gg” moment.
hmm? does confusion do half damage in WvW like in sPvP?
edit: Nope,full damage. Pry bar some faces :p
I’m not saying mesmers are OP’d, I’m saying both thieves and mesmers are plain old irritating to fight. Wading into a sea of illusions and clones is beyond absurd. Fighting an enemy you can’t see is not fun, nor for that matter is playing as a profession that hides most of the time.
As you just said the best teams are balanced, so enforce balance? I’m talking about fun here, sure you may WIN against the team, but it most certainly was not fun (I know I know “winning isn’t everything” lame guy I am.) When I kill a Mesmer/thief it’s a “ugh, finally” moment. When I kill or even lose to a profession other than those that used genuine skill, that’s a “gg” moment.
hmm? does confusion do half damage in WvW like in sPvP?
Nope confusion is full on in wvw as it should be… Its sad that spvp must be catered to… but such is life… This is why you don’t see more confusion builds in sPvP because they are worthless… Also wading through a sea of clones… you mean 3 right? Can’t have more out than that… And if you see more than that dodge… because a shatter is coming… What’s funny is because I have played Mesmer since launch I never have an issue finding the Mesmer or avoiding their damage… Its almost as if playing the profession has heightened my understanding of how it works… GASP!
You’re arguing from hotjoin experience. Hotjoin experience is not Guild Wars 2. It’s just a messed up project that is handicapping this games pvp from reaching any form of success.
I absolutely love this statement. Should be framed and nailed to the devs front door. Citing it should be a part of their morning-ritual.
Double mesmer is annoying to face? W a T? The clones melt to your aoe during the teamfights and the mesmers end up being easy targets. If you’re aware of the mesmers distortion (he has two.) and communicate with your team (or solo spike for that matter, they are glass canons after all) for a spike once his defensive cooldowns are up you’ll be able to bring him down right away. Is that unsatisfying play?
You’re arguing from hotjoin experience. Hotjoin experience is not Guild Wars 2. It’s just a messed up project that is handicapping this games pvp from reaching any form of success.
Yet you ignorantly assume that every player regularly uses AoE’s, that every encounter with a Mesmer is in a group, that every different profession’s build must be able to do exactly what yours does, and ultimately, that everyone is as good as you. I didn’t ask nor do I care how easily YOU can fight mesmers. The post is about profession limiting, and as a regular tPvP player (not just hotjoin) I don’t see how this being implemented could be detrimental to the game.
However… I do agree with your last paragraph, I’ve almost veered away completely from the left side of HotM.
Actually, this isn’t a terrible idea as long as it’s not forced. I.e. the game should make an effort to separate classes. Hell, I’d like to think it already does.
It’s no surprise that the team with 3 warriors loses to the team composed of Thieves/Mesmers. That’s SPvP.
Well im happy!!
The only reason why thief/mesm threads are emerging in this forum ONCE AGAIN, must be..that new blood is coming to pvp!!!!
Rejoice everyone !
Two Mesmers is an absolutely rubbish composition once you hit a half decent level of play.
Oh, you’re talking about hotjoin, yes?
Then why does it matter? Nobody plays to win in hotjoin. Why on earth should they change the game in a mode where for example on capricon the entire team caps their close and zergs to far together?
Just scrap hotjoin and let people learn how to play the game. It would fix so many of the issues people have with multiple Mesmers.
ps: theoretically the best class for hotjoin should be ele/ranger, considering their roaming ability+being the strongest 1v1ers. Phantasmal, while a strong 1v1build (not as good as ranger though!) is absolutely rubbish for everything else.
Doesnt team paradigm EU run double mesmer? Tbh 2 mesmer isnt rubbish, but it isnt great. 2 thiefs is probably rubbish however.
Most classes in fact dont stack well. Ranger, ele, and suprisingly engy stack fairly well.
(engy can play different roles).
In every tournament-setup you will find AoE, even on every class you have aoe if specced (ele: almost every skill, engi: nades, ranger: traps, off-guardian: scepter, torch, meditations, mesmer: shatter etc. , thief: clusterbomb etc. , warrior: gs).
In every tournament-setup you will find a build, that can counter other builds.
And now tell me what’s the advantage of a class-restriction. In our team we play bunker-guard and off-guard. Other teams play double ele. Ppl should choose what setup they wanna play. If they go for 5 mesmers, then why not. It’s a good thing to avoid having the same setup in every team due to restrictions.
Two Mesmers is an absolutely rubbish composition once you hit a half decent level of play.
Oh, you’re talking about hotjoin, yes?
Then why does it matter? Nobody plays to win in hotjoin. Why on earth should they change the game in a mode where for example on capricon the entire team caps their close and zergs to far together?
Just scrap hotjoin and let people learn how to play the game. It would fix so many of the issues people have with multiple Mesmers.
ps: theoretically the best class for hotjoin should be ele/ranger, considering their roaming ability+being the strongest 1v1ers. Phantasmal, while a strong 1v1build (not as good as ranger though!) is absolutely rubbish for everything else.
Doesnt team paradigm EU run double mesmer? Tbh 2 mesmer isnt rubbish, but it isnt great. 2 thiefs is probably rubbish however.
Most classes in fact dont stack well. Ranger, ele, and suprisingly engy stack fairly well.
(engy can play different roles).
I suppose that’s a good example.
Paradigm tried to run double mesmer in various different forms for a while. We’ve beaten them every single game when they tried running this (around 7-0).
How? We just forced teamfights wherever their 2nd mesmer was. Lost mid? Aw, that sucks.
Danto, bunker close. We are going to go 4 far and get a freewin on their sidepoint where they’ll have to fight with double mesmer. Worked every single time.
A little while later paradigm dropped their 2x mesmer and made symbolic go necromancer.
@dolan; What comp exactly does not have aoe? Again, I’m talking about half decent level play here. Every single composition I can think of in the game has plenty of aoe because that is how the game works.
…Unless you’re running something like 5 shortbow rangers without the piercing arrows trait. And in that case 2x mesmer is the least of your problems.
Limiting the choices of team compositions even more is definitely a bad idea, in my opinion.
How do you account for the different build strategies every class can run?
What if a team just play two of the same class, because they main those classes and it ups their chances of winning because they outplay you regardless of the opponent’s class?
Do you think it’s a good idea to fix the meta? Remember there are 8 classes and only 5 slots on a team.
I understand there’s little room for playing doubles and some classes see less playtime in tournaments, but those are balance issues…
If Anet thinks it should not be viable then they should rework the aspect that makes running double superior.
Desolation EU – Necromancer / Thief
Top 100 Solo Q for a full minute
Double mesmer is annoying to face? W a T? The clones melt to your aoe during the teamfights and the mesmers end up being easy targets. If you’re aware of the mesmers distortion (he has two.) and communicate with your team (or solo spike for that matter, they are glass canons after all) for a spike once his defensive cooldowns are up you’ll be able to bring him down right away. Is that unsatisfying play?
You’re arguing from hotjoin experience. Hotjoin experience is not Guild Wars 2. It’s just a messed up project that is handicapping this games pvp from reaching any form of success.
Yet you ignorantly assume that every player regularly uses AoE’s, that every encounter with a Mesmer is in a group, that every different profession’s build must be able to do exactly what yours does, and ultimately, that everyone is as good as you. I didn’t ask nor do I care how easily YOU can fight mesmers. The post is about profession limiting, and as a regular tPvP player (not just hotjoin) I don’t see how this being implemented could be detrimental to the game.
However… I do agree with your last paragraph, I’ve almost veered away completely from the left side of HotM.
You propose that is it silly or ignorant to assume that you would play like someone else or every team would have a AoE. YET you presume to suggest because you have an issue with two classes that everyone else play by your rules. ( not that your suggestion will be implemented )
So let me get the points here
you hate seeing multiple mesmers and thieves in hotjoins
your solution is limit one profession per hotjoin since this makes it easier for you to play
Instead of learning how to fight them you would rather nullify them so you can win
you want to play your way, a way that makes you happy. Then forget about everyone else
Seems to me you either didn’t think your post through or you are just simply a selfish person.
I urge you to read before posting, come on people it’s not hard. This is no way a “Mesmers and Thieves are so OP” thread. Once you learn the mechanics they are relatively easy as they almost all use the exact same tactic. However it’s overused, it’s old, and is 90% of all hotjoin encounters, it’s a chore. People don’t try other things, and it’s sad to see as other professions have so much potential.
I would argue that your sole dispute for this is that you yourself main a mes/thief and as that would be the first profession to fill up, you would be left out, but that right there is a step in the right direction.
Though someone suggested it be optional, I wouldn’t mind this. It keeps the mesmers and thieves happy who can go off trolling each other all day long. And people who want to see profession variety (I can’t be the only one) can join those :]
I urge you to read before posting, come on people it’s not hard. This is no way a “Mesmers and Thieves are so OP” thread. Once you learn the mechanics they are relatively easy as they almost all use the exact same tactic. However it’s overused, it’s old, and is 90% of all hotjoin encounters, it’s a chore. People don’t try other things, and it’s sad to see as other professions have so much potential.
I would argue that your sole dispute for this is that you yourself main a mes/thief and as that would be the first profession to fill up, you would be left out, but that right there is a step in the right direction.
Though someone suggested it be optional, I wouldn’t mind this. It keeps the mesmers and thieves happy who can go off trolling each other all day long. And people who want to see profession variety (I can’t be the only one) can join those :]
Mabye you should start playing tournaments, because hotjoin is a broken mode.
I urge you to read before posting, come on people it’s not hard. This is no way a “Mesmers and Thieves are so OP” thread. Once you learn the mechanics they are relatively easy as they almost all use the exact same tactic. However it’s overused, it’s old, and is 90% of all hotjoin encounters, it’s a chore. People don’t try other things, and it’s sad to see as other professions have so much potential.
I would argue that your sole dispute for this is that you yourself main a mes/thief and as that would be the first profession to fill up, you would be left out, but that right there is a step in the right direction.
Though someone suggested it be optional, I wouldn’t mind this. It keeps the mesmers and thieves happy who can go off trolling each other all day long. And people who want to see profession variety (I can’t be the only one) can join those :]
I love how when people are told to suck it up and anythign similar to what I say the person it was told to say’s this
I would argue that your sole dispute for this is that you yourself main a mes/thief
Actually no I play a guard, ranger, necro in pvp most of the time but I do have a thief and Mesmer.
I simply pointed out where you were wrong in my head, and personally I don’t see only Mesmers and Thieves in Hotjoins. There are some times I see 4 or 5 Thieves but that is usually when 43 to 4 of them are spamming Heartseeker Like a noob. Regardless I would prefer my hotjoins to be all thieves and mesmers with any of my professions they are probably the two professions that die the fastest.
in real tournaments its never a thief topscore getting anything other than personal points for finishing other people’s kills. try a bunch of bunker guardians, you don’t even know what annoying pvp looks like. or maybe suggest they fix the matchmaking, since my total teamlevel is in the 50s and most teams there are over 120 combined levels. such a joke, THATS what breaks this game, thats why theres no one in queue to play except boss teams. no one wants to risk it and frankly, im starting to agree, no one likes testing their 10hour necro pvp build against these 1000hr pvp scumbags who sit in with a permanent team all day and talk trash from behind their bunker.
