Guild Wars 2

I searched the forums, and I can’t seem to find another post about this, so I’ll just have to ask.

Sylvari in the game often speak of love for one-another and talk of their beloved. To me this beings up a number of questions about Sylvari culture and anatomy, which I find is actually essential in understanding the romantic psychology of this race.

Are Sylvari sexual beings? Do they actually seek out other beings due to a physical attraction, or is it all emotional(/spiritual?)? If they are sexual beings, then what biological purpose would that serve when the Sylvari reproduce from a matriarchal being? On that note, would any kind of sexual attraction between Sylvari be a from of incest?

Please note that I do not ask these questions to make some kind of deranged fanfic more legitimate or anything like that. I simply want to better understand the psychological aspects of the Sylvari as a race., especially when they have shown signs of being romantically involved in some way. Sex affects humans in that it influences our behavior, culture, and psychology, so I simply want to know if Sylvari have the thing driving them in a similar way.

Please try to keep this conversation as mature as you can.

My understanding is that they don’t. They do have feelings for others, but it’s mentally based rather than physical. More about emotion and romance than physical attraction. The race is only a resemblance of the humanoid form, they have no sexual organs and so don’t have that drive. They may be compelled to seek out a partner for companionship, or enter a relationship with someone who is very alike in mind and personality, but since sex is not an issue then neither is gender. This is the viewpoint I’ve gathered from in-game as well as official online writings. I’m working on the books, so I’ll keep an eye out for anything mentioned there.

The question about incest is an interesting one, I guess it depends on your view point. According to the societal rules we have now, then yes. But life has to start somewhere, and after many generations they would be just like humans in that regard. We don’t have to worry about this question though, since they can’t reproduce.

Xyvol.1265:

My understanding is that they don’t. They do have feelings for others, but it’s mentally based rather than physical. More about emotion and romance than physical attraction. The race is only a resemblance of the humanoid form, they have no sexual organs and so don’t have that drive. They may be compelled to seek out a partner for companionship, or enter a relationship with someone who is very alike in mind and personality, but since sex is not an issue then neither is gender. This is the viewpoint I’ve gathered from in-game as well as official online writings. I’m working on the books, so I’ll keep an eye out for anything mentioned there.

The question about incest is an interesting one, I guess it depends on your view point. According to the societal rules we have now, then yes. But life has to start somewhere, and after many generations they would be just like humans in that regard. We don’t have to worry about this question though, since they can’t reproduce.

I wish I could find the quote, but I actually do remember a line of dialogue in game about a male Sylvari “hitting on” a female. This kind of behavior does present the idea that there could be some level of physical attraction between Sylvari.

I would also like to bring up that when Sylvari have no cloths, they have leaves covering areas that would have genitalia or nipples on the female.. Anet could have easily just had those be empty spaces (barbie doll anatomy) and maintain the age rating, but they specifically chose to have the leaves as cover. I just find this is something of note.

canonically, i believe they do:
“Physically, sylvari are male or female, and the relevant external biology is accurate on both […]” – Ree Soesbee, Dream and Nightmare

most interestingly, i think it’s fun to consider certain flowers that reproduce the shapes of insects to encourage the spread of pollen – look at the hammerhead orchid, for instance.

it’s not used for reproduction, of course, but i imagine it’s quite useful for social interaction, the formation of emotional bonds, etc.

A-net has confirmed that sylvari are sexually active but lack the approrite organs to reproduce. Like all sylvari limbs, their “sexual organs” are simply imitations of human sexual organs made from plant pettles/stems/leaves/bark/vines/etc. wrapped to form a shape that produces a similar physical function. they look and operate similarly without he reproductive aspect.

Kurodius.7463:

Xyvol.1265:

My understanding is that they don’t. They do have feelings for others, but it’s mentally based rather than physical. More about emotion and romance than physical attraction. The race is only a resemblance of the humanoid form, they have no sexual organs and so don’t have that drive. They may be compelled to seek out a partner for companionship, or enter a relationship with someone who is very alike in mind and personality, but since sex is not an issue then neither is gender. This is the viewpoint I’ve gathered from in-game as well as official online writings. I’m working on the books, so I’ll keep an eye out for anything mentioned there.

The question about incest is an interesting one, I guess it depends on your view point. According to the societal rules we have now, then yes. But life has to start somewhere, and after many generations they would be just like humans in that regard. We don’t have to worry about this question though, since they can’t reproduce.

I wish I could find the quote, but I actually do remember a line of dialogue in game about a male Sylvari “hitting on” a female. This kind of behavior does present the idea that there could be some level of physical attraction between Sylvari.

I would also like to bring up that when Sylvari have no cloths, they have leaves covering areas that would have genitalia or nipples on the female.. Anet could have easily just had those be empty spaces (barbie doll anatomy) and maintain the age rating, but they specifically chose to have the leaves as cover. I just find this is something of note.

That because those leaves covering the lower regions are indeed covering something. Sylvari have external organs that mimic ours, just not the internal components that give them purpose. But those leaves are indeed covering something, it’s not blank. Now to m understanding, sylvari relationships aren’t about finding the most compatible person to have offspring with( even humans do this. You may not consciously think it, but biological roots tell us why humans are attracted to some and not others, you want the best possible combination of traits for young) but rather finding those whom you feel a deep emotional connection with. BECAUSE OF THIS, things like gender and even race do not matter for sylvari, which is also why I hypothesize that sex isn’t ultimately what they are after( I mean a plug needs a socket not another plug :p). But the wiki says even sylvari have sex, but it’s strictly for intimacy between individuals as the Pale Tree takes care of reproduction. Also I reckon looks do have a part in attraction for them. The Pale Tree wanted sylvari to look human to fit in and be an attractive and welcoming race, and there use to be a sylvari in LA that showed signs of lust for a norn male walking by.

Mother Nature has created plants so they HAVE genders. I don’t understand, why Sylvari should be different. YET IT MEANS NOT YOU SHOULD USE IT YOU FILTHY…

Dustfinger.9510:

A-net has confirmed that sylvari are sexually active but lack the approrite organs to reproduce. Like all sylvari limbs, their “sexual organs” are simply imitations of human sexual organs made from plant pettles/stems/leaves/bark/vines/etc. wrapped to form a shape that produces a similar physical function. they look and operate similarly without he reproductive aspect.

Can you provide a link for this confirmation? I would be wholly satisfied with this answer if you would.

Kurodius.7463:

Can you provide a link for this confirmation? I would be wholly satisfied with this answer if you would.

it was in early interviews. Sadly the links are no longer working. Hopefully they were saved in the official wiki somewhere :/.

edit: so far all I found that was saved is that they have the appropriate bits and can’t reproduce. I will continue looking.

“Physically, sylvari are male or female, and the relevant external biology is accurate on both, but they cannot sexually reproduce as the other races do; they have no internal organs capable of creating children.” http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dream_and_Nightmare

edit 2: here’s another reference to sylvari sexuality:
“Sexuality is simply a natural part of life, and so long as it is entered into with good will and joy, the gender doesn’t make a difference.”
http://gaygamer.net/2011/10/interview_guild_war_2s_ree_soe.html

We see that the term “sexuality” here isn’t used as a synonym for gender because it is being compared and contrasted to gender.

edit 3: confirmation of what sylvari limbs are made up of:

“In exploring the anatomy, you can see a lot of different details. The forearms, for example, are not a human arm with leaves tacked on top, but rather a shape created by many stem tendons and long leaves coiling around one another to create the structure. The faces of the sylvari are not restricted by the anatomy of the skull as a human would, but are created by layers upon layers of plant materials that press together, forming the illusion of anatomy. On the outside, they are beautiful and elegant. Looking closer, you’ll see how different they really are.”
http://www.talktyria.net/2011/08/11/sylvari-lore-interview-with-ree-soesbee-kristen-perry/

Dustfinger.9510:

Kurodius.7463:

Can you provide a link for this confirmation? I would be wholly satisfied with this answer if you would.

it was in early interviews. Sadly the links are no longer working. Hopefully they were saved in the official wiki somewhere :/.

edit: so far all I found that was saved is that they have the appropriate bits and can’t reproduce. I will continue looking.

“Physically, sylvari are male or female, and the relevant external biology is accurate on both, but they cannot sexually reproduce as the other races do; they have no internal organs capable of creating children.” http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dream_and_Nightmare

edit 2: here’s another reference to sylvari sexuality:
“Sexuality is simply a natural part of life, and so long as it is entered into with good will and joy, the gender doesn’t make a difference.”
http://gaygamer.net/2011/10/interview_guild_war_2s_ree_soe.html

We see that the term “sexuality” here isn’t used as a synonym for gender because it is being compared and contrasted to gender.

edit 3: confirmation of what sylvari limbs are made up of:

“In exploring the anatomy, you can see a lot of different details. The forearms, for example, are not a human arm with leaves tacked on top, but rather a shape created by many stem tendons and long leaves coiling around one another to create the structure. The faces of the sylvari are not restricted by the anatomy of the skull as a human would, but are created by layers upon layers of plant materials that press together, forming the illusion of anatomy. On the outside, they are beautiful and elegant. Looking closer, you’ll see how different they really are.”
http://www.talktyria.net/2011/08/11/sylvari-lore-interview-with-ree-soesbee-kristen-perry/

Ok cool, question answered.

The devs kinda gloss over the whole thing – seems that way to me anyway.

Tarreth.8914:

Mother Nature has created plants so they HAVE genders. I don’t understand, why Sylvari should be different. YET IT MEANS NOT YOU SHOULD USE IT YOU FILTHY…

Not sure if trolling.

Anyway, most plants aren’t gendered like animals are. Many plants have both genders, and many species can reproduce both sexually and asexually. In flowering plants it’s even more complicated, because the pollen is actually a separate plant that contains a small reproductive package.

Some plants can even pollinate themselves.

Actually, even some animals (insects, sharks, boa constrictors) have been known to reproduce asexually.

Gender isn’t as “natural” as you might think.

It is natural, yet it means not it goes to everything.

Dustfinger.9510:

A-net has confirmed that sylvari are sexually active but lack the approrite organs to reproduce. Like all sylvari limbs, their “sexual organs” are simply imitations of human sexual organs made from plant pettles/stems/leaves/bark/vines/etc. wrapped to form a shape that produces a similar physical function. they look and operate similarly without he reproductive aspect.

Yup.

They have the appropriate organs in sylvari fashion. They function in all the ways they should, stopping short of actually being able to produce after their kind.

They’re sterile. Only the mother tree(s) can physically produce sylvari.
_

But yeah OP, the sylvari obviously have well defined genders. Male and female. They also happen to be the most uninhibited, though humans seem to be catching up.

bullyrook.2165:

The devs kinda gloss over the whole thing – seems that way to me anyway.

Not that they gloss over it. They had addressed it. They just can’t really sit down and devote so much time to the issue that it begins to be a thing.

I’m honestly surprised they humored the question at all, props to them for that.

CETheLucid.3964:

Dustfinger.9510:

A-net has confirmed that sylvari are sexually active but lack the approrite organs to reproduce. Like all sylvari limbs, their “sexual organs” are simply imitations of human sexual organs made from plant pettles/stems/leaves/bark/vines/etc. wrapped to form a shape that produces a similar physical function. they look and operate similarly without he reproductive aspect.

Yup.

They have the appropriate organs in sylvari fashion. They function in all the ways they should, stopping short of actually being able to produce after their kind.

They’re sterile. Only the mother tree(s) can physically produce sylvari.
_

But yeah OP, the sylvari obviously have well defined genders. Male and female. They also happen to be the most uninhibited, though humans seem to be catching up.

bullyrook.2165:

The devs kinda gloss over the whole thing – seems that way to me anyway.

Not that they gloss over it. They had addressed it. They just can’t really sit down and devote so much time to the issue that it begins to be a thing.

I’m honestly surprised they humored the question at all, props to them for that.

Props? For what exactly?

For actually answering the question and giving us some information about how Sylvari sexuality and anatomy actually functioned. They could have just glossed it over and said “leave it up to your imagination”. Which would have been fine, but it’s always nice to have canonical information to build theories and stories off of.

Well, they kinda did. I think they threw Sylvari sexuality into the game just because they could. There was no real reason to, seeing as from a biological standpoint they shouldn’t have a drive to mate. “Magic!” I guess.

It may well serve social purposes the same way recreation intercourse serves multiple species in RL.

@bullyrook: That is a fair point. It may be that Sylvari sexuality is merely an implanted desire given to them by the Dream in order for them to better relate to the other sentient races. But in the same way that real life sex is ultimately just to propagate the species, it doesn’t make the act any less awesome.

I think its more that an asexual race may not have had wide appeal to the gaming audience.

Zaxares.5419:

@bullyrook: That is a fair point. It may be that Sylvari sexuality is merely an implanted desire given to them by the Dream in order for them to better relate to the other sentient races. But in the same way that real life sex is ultimately just to propagate the species, it doesn’t make the act any less awesome.

That’s how it is for animals.

Humans are romantic and sexual beings IRL and more often than not the act of propagating the species plays a distant second or even third in the equation to love and desire.

Many times it’s not a factor at all (IE some don’t want kids).

Sylvari are a deeply passionate and very emotional people (typically), and they’re very much capable of expressing love in the complete spectrum of humanity.

Sexuality is indeed a part of the sylvari experience, and it may well be for the reason you state; it makes them more able to relate to the other species of Tyria.

It’s not a foreign concept to them. In fact, they may make some of the more conservative of Tyria blush.

CETheLucid.3964:

Zaxares.5419:

@bullyrook: That is a fair point. It may be that Sylvari sexuality is merely an implanted desire given to them by the Dream in order for them to better relate to the other sentient races. But in the same way that real life sex is ultimately just to propagate the species, it doesn’t make the act any less awesome.

That’s how it is for animals.

Humans are romantic and sexual beings IRL and more often than not the act of propagating the species plays a distant second or even third in the equation to love and desire.

Many times it’s not a factor at all (IE some don’t want kids).

Sylvari are a deeply passionate and very emotional people (typically), and they’re very much capable of expressing love in the complete spectrum of humanity.

Sexuality is indeed a part of the sylvari experience, and it may well be for the reason you state; it makes them more able to relate to the other species of Tyria.

It’s not a foreign concept to them. In fact, they may make some of the more conservative of Tyria blush.

Lol, you are all quit humorous. But let’s face facts: humanity rarely has its priorities straight as far as when it comes to what’s good for the species. Our sexual practices are mostly offshoots of the desire to mate and breed and nothing more. This is true of pretty much every species on earth.

However, I could buy that sentient beings devoid of sexual attraction could develop an amorous relationship in term of close friendship and simply choose to engage in actions of physical closeness in order to express emotion and strengthen existing bonds. No, not strengthen so much as “lock” existing bonds. But this is a theory of love transcending sexuality, not very popular in today’s society.

Sylvari have the parts, I do remember that being a quote from one of the Anet staff members (I’d have to do a lot of digging to find it, which I’m not really up for), but they don’t function for reproduction.

Regardless, sylvari are all individuals and have a sentience of their own. The majority sexuality of the sylvari species, if I remember correctly, is pansexuality… but, as with humans, I imagine there are many different individuals who would easily deviate from that and develop their own personal preferences. Admittedly, I rather figure that — by and large — they aren’t a particularly sexual group since it holds little to no purpose for them (aside from pleasure). But as they are sentient individuals, some might have developed a fondness for it (maybe they really enjoy it? Maybe they find it’s easier to connect on a deeper, more intimate level with someone? And from there can branch off different preferences [and some might have personal preferences even before then, such as just not enjoying the idea to begin with]).

• Reference to the above: “Physically, sylvari are male or female, and the relevant external biology is accurate on both […]” – Ree Soesbee, Dream and Nightmare

• Also, reference to sylvari pansexuality: “To a sylvari, love is about inspiration. Physical touch, ardor, and sensuality are beautiful things, but what the heart feels, what gives joy to the spirit – these are most important, and that has nothing at all to do with the physical form. Love is not bound by gender. It does not ignore the pairing of hearts simply because the bodies are alike. Indeed, the sylvari feel free to love (and love openly) regardless of the physical qualities of their beloved. It would surprise them to hear that someone of any race felt differently. They would say that love is too precious to be passed over simply because someone’s eyes are blue, their hair is dark, or because they are of the same sex.” -Ree Soesbee

That quote is basically the definition of pansexuality.

Those quotes were taken from here: http://guildwars2roleplay.wikispaces.com/A+Comprehensive+Guide+to+All+Things+Sylvari

Are Sylvari sexual beings? Do they actually seek out other beings due to a physical attraction, or is it all emotional(/spiritual?)?

Sylvari are not virginal flowers. The answer is yes, Sylvari love and lust the same as other races. It’s just that none of them are “straight” or “gay”—they are physically attracted to one another, but it’s not based on sex/gender, since sylvari don’t reproduce.

If they are sexual beings, then what biological purpose would that serve when the Sylvari reproduce from a matriarchal being?

There is no biological purpose. Sylvari have boy and girl parts on the outside, but no reproductive organs on the inside. They have sex because it feels good, and because it lets them bond with their lover.

On that note, would any kind of sexual attraction between Sylvari be a from of incest?
No, not as we understand it. Incest is taboo because it produces deformed or otherwise unhealthy children. In a society that relies on reproduction to survive, that is to be avoided. But since sylvari don’t have children, there’s no such thing as incest in their society.
It is unlikely for Sylvari twins (two sylvari from the same pod) to be sexually attracted to one another—but even if they were, it wouldn’t matter, since they can’t reproduce.

Kit.3986:

Sylvari have the parts, I do remember that being a quote from one of the Anet staff members (I’d have to do a lot of digging to find it, which I’m not really up for), but they don’t function for reproduction.

Regardless, sylvari are all individuals and have a sentience of their own. The majority sexuality of the sylvari species, if I remember correctly, is pansexuality… but, as with humans, I imagine there are many different individuals who would easily deviate from that and develop their own personal preferences. Admittedly, I rather figure that — by and large — they aren’t a particularly sexual group since it holds little to no purpose for them (aside from pleasure). But as they are sentient individuals, some might have developed a fondness for it (maybe they really enjoy it? Maybe they find it’s easier to connect on a deeper, more intimate level with someone? And from there can branch off different preferences [and some might have personal preferences even before then, such as just not enjoying the idea to begin with]).

• Reference to the above: “Physically, sylvari are male or female, and the relevant external biology is accurate on both […]” – Ree Soesbee, Dream and Nightmare

• Also, reference to sylvari pansexuality: “To a sylvari, love is about inspiration. Physical touch, ardor, and sensuality are beautiful things, but what the heart feels, what gives joy to the spirit – these are most important, and that has nothing at all to do with the physical form. Love is not bound by gender. It does not ignore the pairing of hearts simply because the bodies are alike. Indeed, the sylvari feel free to love (and love openly) regardless of the physical qualities of their beloved. It would surprise them to hear that someone of any race felt differently. They would say that love is too precious to be passed over simply because someone’s eyes are blue, their hair is dark, or because they are of the same sex.” -Ree Soesbee

That quote is basically the definition of pansexuality.

Those quotes were taken from here: http://guildwars2roleplay.wikispaces.com/A+Comprehensive+Guide+to+All+Things+Sylvari

That last link is basically all you will ever need on the topic of Sylvari together with playing the game and the wiki.

Facts.
1) they have all the sexual organs mimicking the human species. thus allowing the action of sex to be possible.

2) http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/30702-assignment-discovery-plant-reproduction-video.htm
^ not a detailed source but one so you can get the grasp of it.
Sylvari have pollen. Knowing this we can assume that they other parts of the puzzle such as fertilizable eggs.

3) however there is no proof supporting the idea that sylvari females can have a embryo and a seed or what have you in order to nurture and create a child……

4) however there is also no proof that they do not.
And that it’s perfectly possible that we may see sylvari children sometime in the future.

Thing to note however. Most plants are asexual. Knowing this and the fact that all sylvari male and female give off pollen it strikes some very interesting questions that are up to imagination.

Chaos.3579:

3) however there is no proof supporting the idea that sylvari females can have a embryo and a seed or what have you in order to nurture and create a child……

4) however there is also no proof that they do not.
And that it’s perfectly possible that we may see sylvari children sometime in the future.

We have dev confirmation that sylvari don’t have the relevant internal biology capable of producing children.

“Physically, sylvari are male or female, and the relevant external biology is accurate on both, but they cannot sexually reproduce as the other races do; they have no internal organs capable of creating children.” http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dream_and_Nightmare

For me that brings another question. They can’t sexually reproduce but can they reproduce asexually? That a few (probably very few) take roots somewhere and grow into pale trees themselfes?

They kinda remind me to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bryophyllum_daigremontianum_nahaufnahme1.jpg

Nobody knows. I suspect that it may be the case though.

I think Trahearne might have gone down much better with the audience if this scenario had played out at the end of the Personal Story:

After slaying Zhaitan, Trahearne has an epiphany about why he dreams about the reclamation of Orr, and with Caladbolg in hand, he understands how he is going to do it. Using Caladbolg’s magic, he “roots” himself in Orr, effectively transforming himself into a new Pale Tree sapling. This is his destiny, to make Orr green and living again by essentially planting himself into the land and reclaiming it through his own life. His final act is to promote the player to Marshall of the Pact, and while Trahearne can still be spoken to via his avatar, for all intents and purposes he is “out of the game”.

Bright, but I’d add another Pale Tree gift, some fertile egg. Even if Caladbolg is a splint of her, it was designed as a weapon. Let’s say that Trahearne has to play a similar role as Ronan, to inspire the egg and give the sapling a consciousness.

You could oppose that the Pale Tree is unable to reproduce itself by any ways, and that the only entity that could create another Pale Tree is the one that created the eggs found by Ronan. So a last quest would be needed to steal another of these eggs in order to revive Orr with Trahearne and Caladbolg.

A player can’t be marshal of the Pact. You’d be stuck at a desk drawing up plans, organising logistics, and actually leading.

Not out adventuring, risking your life, taking no responsibility.

Well, I’d argue that sexuality is more than just gentalia…

There’s a moment between Caithe and Faolain (can’t remember exactly when…) where Fao uses her magic to freeze Caithe in place while Caithe is trying to assassinate her… and basically teases her with her body. Really, I think she’s just running her (hands? tendrils?) along Caithe’s arms but it’s very suggestive! I could picture a leafy bodice being unlaced, tracing the lines of sap veins in the arms, digging in the grooves. Tapping for maple syrup, if you know what I mean.

This isn’t canon at all, but on some level I did picture the “organs” lighting up in the evenings similar to the glow patterns on the skin and getting more intense with the level of arousal.

Not only do I think the Sylvari are sexual, I think it could be very heady sex! I’m sure Caithe definitely loved Faolain’s “sylvar tongue,” anyway!

And sentiments are more than sexuality…

Maybe they never consumed their love/attraction/mutual interest.

Sylvari are very curious by nature. I would consider Sylvari romance similar to breeding knowledge. They become romantically involved because they share similar interests and are attracted to the information the other Sylvari possesses that they do not. Strengthening their bond might allow them to better understand complex equations that they otherwise could not on their own. Connecting to each other on an emotional level might allow them to blossom subconsciously where they experience things human beings could never fathom.
It’s a beautiful concept to me… Not being attracted to each other based on physical appearances or trivial similarities. They see each other as vessels to grow within, planting an emotional seed that eventually blossoms into an idea, and with that idea they solidify their relationship. It’s a primal desire to not only gain wisdom, but to experience it. To experience wisdom and knowledge in such way that it liquidates in to something else entirely.

Xyvol.1265:

The question about incest is an interesting one, I guess it depends on your view point. According to the societal rules we have now, then yes. But life has to start somewhere, and after many generations they would be just like humans in that regard. We don’t have to worry about this question though, since they can’t reproduce.

Since they can’t reproduce, the number of generations wouldn’t matter since every Sylvari would be 1 level of descent from their tree. To avoid the incest issue they would have to romance someone from another tree. The fact that Ronan took the Pale Tree’s seed from a cave full of such seeds shows such trees could exist and Malyck’s existence shows that they apparently do. I’m actually surprised nobody has mentioned Malyck in the LW threads…

Anyways, if there is ever an ambient dialogue written when a Sylvari is discussing this fact, they should steal a line from Data-

`I am fully functional`