Guild Wars 2

There are spoilers here. You have been warned.

From a Sylvari’s standpoint, do you hate him? Everyone else seems to abhor him with a fruity passion. (…bad pun. Sorry, couldn’t resist)

He shows up pretty early in the personal storyline, probably starting at Part 2 (whatever Ventari teaching you chose for your character). I don’t remember if it’s earlier than that, but probably not. After that, he keeps popping up until you pick which Order to follow – even helping with Mazdak’s defeat.

He keeps coming out of hiding as conditions get worse – starting with Claw Island, and eventually being persuaded to unite the three Orders. Heck, at first, he didn’t even want to do it, didn’t he?

A lot of people complain he came in and stole the spotlight, but it just doesn’t feel that way in the Sylvari story. It seems more like an NPC friend that ends up fighting alongside you to the very end. If his Wyld Hunt didn’t limit him to purifying Orr, he’d probably join you to fight Zhaitan as well.

There’s only two things I hate about him: how he keeps rushing into battle with a suicidal manner, and how he seems to skip important details in the Missions for the Pact…

Yes, let’s use an enchanted mirror to lure out the Eye of Zhaitan. You forgot to mention this mirror can also teleport us into the middle of Orr, amid the army of undead.

…

tl;dr version: Hate, or no hate?

No hate. Like. He’s on my list of favourite characters. Anet better not listen to everyone who wants him dead or I’ll get sad.

I don’t understand why people hate him this much, I didn’t feel he stole my spotlight, I was still the one praised for taking down Zhatian and he finished his Wyld Hunt. Some people hate him simply for his mechanics which makes even less sense to me.
Do I care about him and would I like to see him again in the future? Not really, I found him pretty boring as a character.

Why would I hate my sugardaddy?

I don’t like when people hate him because of the “rushing into battle with a suicidal manner” because every NPC does it. Anet would have to improve the AI overall of ‘heroes’ in story and dungeons. They pretty much made them weak on purpose so that they didn’t do all the work for u and end up nerfed like D3 Tyrael .-.
Would be nice if it were more like GW1 at least a little.

I’m with OP. I really like Trahearne. If you pay attention to the dialogues both cutscenes and the the optional dialogue boxes in between you can see how he turns from a quiet solitary scholar who is practically terrified of his Wyld Hunt to someone who was given faith and confidence in himself by you, the Sylvari OC. He grew up with you and that’s what I like about him.
His voice actor could have said some parts a bit more convincingly but otherwise his words was very suited to his overall character.

I have since completed the storyline again on my Norn and I can see where people are coming from when they say “He just pops out of no-where and suddenly he’s doing a Kormir/taking over/better then me etc.” If you started on a race other then Sylvari his connection to Orr and Caladbolg doesn’t really make itself apparent until further on when you’re helping him complete the Source of Orr quest chain.
And yeah, if Anet kills him because of the whiners I’ll be extremely sad. We need more Trahearne love around here!

I like Trahearne. He’s very him. He just took a roundabout way of getting to his Wyld Hunt. Ok, our Story just about had to drag him kicking and screaming into finishing his Wyld Hunt.

We were the driving force behind that. Yep. That and a very large undead monster dragon beastie who wanted to kill everybody. Very driving. Very behind me in that running screaming way.

It ended well.

I got no problem with Trahearne, even on my non-sylvari characters.

People complain that he “steals your thunder” of your personal story and it becomes “Trahearne’s Story” or whatever and I don’t nessicarily disagree, but really, I’m fine with that. I’d rather have there be one NPC taking the lead than have your own characters lead it so that there are a million different “leaders” considering every individual player. And it makes more sense that the guy who’s studied Orr for what, 20 years, would lead the force against Zhaitan who’s situated there, as opposed to your character whose probably never even seen the place.

I’m really not a fan of player characters becomming the absolute leader of everything in general. In fact, I’d like it even more if you didn’t even become commander of the entire pact, but at most became the pact representative of your chosen Order (that would also have the advantage of keeping your Order choice signifigant through the entire personal story, rather than now where once the Pact forms it barely matters what order you’re in).

People also seem to complain a lot about him acting superior, but I have no problem with that either. He does sort of come across that way at times, but again, he’s studied the place for 2 decades so of course he’s going to have a superior knowledge of it. I suppose he could be less up-front about it, but I’d rather have him act superior but know what he’s talking about than have him be humble and seem like he has no idea.

Look at it this way, she wasn’t the main character, but she was awesome. So we’re kinda like Ivanova from B5. We are the right hand of awesome.

Susan Ivanova: Who am I? I am Susan Ivanova, Commander. Daughter of Andre and Sophie Ivanov. I am the right hand of vengeance and the boot that is going to kick your sorry [donkey] all the way back to Earth, sweetheart! I am death incarnate, and the last living thing that you will ever see. God sent me.

WyldKat.4712:

Look at it this way, she wasn’t the main character, but she was awesome. So we’re kinda like Ivanova from B5. We are the right hand of awesome.

Susan Ivanova: Who am I? I am Susan Ivanova, Commander. Daughter of Andre and Sophie Ivanov. I am the right hand of vengeance and the boot that is going to kick your sorry [donkey] all the way back to Earth, sweetheart! I am death incarnate, and the last living thing that you will ever see. God sent me.

One of the best episdoes of B5

I found him boring until it was hinted (or was it just in my mind?) that he has a girlfriend. Then he became much more interesting. Of course being Sylvari he could be batting for both teams. I always giggle when he says certain things in cutscenes to my male toons. I wish anet would explore his romantic side more.

Barbelo.5916:

Of course being Sylvari he could be batting for both teams.

Funny, I always pictured the sylvari as being more of a cricket culture instead of baseball. And I don’t understand cricket at all.

I actually liked him, but then as I played as a Sylvari first I got to know him from the start and he didn’t just appear as a big part of the story later on. I can see why people playing in other races really hate him. They don’t really do a good job of integrating him into the story line for other races, and your character is supposed to be all chummy as if they new each other from the start when in reality with the other races you are going “Who is he? Why is he here stealing my thunder???” I do think they should add a bit more to the personal stories and maybe critique them a bit more to make them more fluid.

Trahearne is my favorite character. I think playing a sylvari first helped me warm up to him, though. Working with him from 10-20 and again to take down Mazdak gave me the opportunity to bond with him before he showed up at Claw Island. There are a few sylvari-exclusive moments that make him seem a bit more “real” too, like his sibling banter with Caithe, his clueless reaction to an npc fangirling all over him, a Nightmare Courtier pretty much calling him a nerd when he tries to defend a friend, etc. Unfortunately the other races only get a brief introduction to him right before the story takes a more depressing turn, and from that point on he mostly stresses out about his Wyld Hunt and duties as Pact Marshal. So even though I think a lot of the common complaints about Trahearne are silly, I can understand why non-sylvari players feel like he shows up out of nowhere, and why some find him boring/lacking in development.

I think his role in the Sylvari story was all right, where he wasn’t all that much more stilted than any other supporting cast member. It was only after his reappearance at Claw Island that he became Fungus Kormir.

I’m a sylvari and i hate more or less all sylvari people

I’m kinda like a leafy uncle rukus

but i dont like trahearne cuz his voice annoys me it’s so dull

Gomoratoad.9867:

Trahearne is my favorite character. I think playing a sylvari first helped me warm up to him, though. Working with him from 10-20 and again to take down Mazdak gave me the opportunity to bond with him before he showed up at Claw Island. There are a few sylvari-exclusive moments that make him seem a bit more “real” too, like his sibling banter with Caithe, his clueless reaction to an npc fangirling all over him, a Nightmare Courtier pretty much calling him a nerd when he tries to defend a friend, etc. Unfortunately the other races only get a brief introduction to him right before the story takes a more depressing turn, and from that point on he mostly stresses out about his Wyld Hunt and duties as Pact Marshal. So even though I think a lot of the common complaints about Trahearne are silly, I can understand why non-sylvari players feel like he shows up out of nowhere, and why some find him boring/lacking in development.

I think this is basically the problem in a nutshell. Most of the good voice acting and scripting seems to have been in the early stages of the game – Trahearne loses a bit after Claw Island, and for players who didn’t play a sylvari through to at least 20 or so before they hit Claw island on their primary, that’s their only exposure to Trahearne.

What would probably have helped more is having him show up occasionally to help with some of the other storylines – have him be present for Professor Gorr’s convention, have him be in the swamp for the rescue of the human children, have him be someone that is consulted for Necromancer Rissa’s amulets, and have him just happen to be at the Priory when it’s attacked by dredge. That way, other races could have at least had some contact with him beforehand rather than him appearing out of nowhere at Claw Island.

I’d have to agree it’s the scripting/voice direction. There are times Trahearne is voiced with obvious emotion, but that doesn’t always hold true. And yes, it would be much better if he showed up at events that effect other races, earlier ingame.

I hate Trahearne because of what he could have been but never was. A relatively reserved cautious scholar that needs to follow his wyld hunt and become a confident competent leader in the war against zhaitan.
Instead we get a character who has very little personal growth and ‘sorta kinda’ leads the pact. He never really gets into the role laid out for him and it could have been awesome if he did.

I don’t hate Trahearne per say, though when he did ‘steal the spotlight’ it feels like it did in Guild Wars Nightfall with Kormir, hence Trahearne’s nick-name of being Kormir 2.0. After playing through the Sylvari story line he felt more like a friend who aided us than stealing the show. However, playing through any other story line it does feel like he stole the credit, which bugs me and a lot more people. I don’t hate him, he just gets on my nerves occasionally.

I’m not a fan of Caithe….for protagonist and mentor to a bunch of enlightened plant-people, she sure is bloodthirsty. Trehearne is fine.

I dont hate him. Got a little bored of his inspirational speaches but I never understood why people fuss that he “stole the limelight”. I mean really, does it matter?

I prefered Caithe just because hes a bit more streetwise and mysterious. Trahearne comes across as a little pathetic and helpless, and didnt seem to have any deeper level to his personallity. To me at least.

I don’t hate him at all. I hated his AI for a little bit as he had a pretty bad case of amnesia when my Sylvari first arrived in Orr, but not his character.

I don’t get the Trahearne hate, but then again I also didn’t get the Kormir hate.

IMO Trahearne is a weak minded coward.

Don’t hate him per se but I’m certainly not fond of him. His voice bugs me, his dialogue bugs me, his hair and face are funny…then again my sylvari ranger also doesn’t care for any of the planty armor or weapons either :/

I hate him because he is an unforgiving Mary-Sue. He takes credit for events the player does, is universally loved despite being as interesting as a wet blanket, and lets not even START on that godawful VO. When your actor is talking in a neutral tone in the middle of battle, something is up. AND, HE’S INCONSISTENT! “I’ve not faught the risen much” So…. why is this guy the leader of an invasion into Orr? Because he has a Gollum-like knowledge of the back way into it? I’m just glad the people responsible for that terrible character were fired.

I dont hate him, and I dont think he stole the spotlight, mainly because I dont feel like there was any spotlight to be stolen. The Personal Story kinda whimpered out.
Besides he was more of an adviser than hero.

Shadestrike.4372:

I hate him because he is an unforgiving Mary-Sue. He takes credit for events the player does, is universally loved despite being as interesting as a wet blanket, and lets not even START on that godawful VO.

And, speaking as a Sylvari, let’s not forget that the kitten Pale Tree gave him my sword! What the heck does a scholar need an epic sword for? I’m the one who’re supposed to fight the dragon, not stand in the back shouting advice.

Short answer? Yes.
Long answer? Yes.

I hate him so much I intentionally get him killed in every mission we are forced to do together so that I can dance over his dead body.

Yep. Its his voice that makes me wish he died at the cleansing. He just sounds so much like he’s taking a kitten all over your face when he talks.

Let me say, first, that my main is Sylvari, and I have three Sylvari alts aside from him. I enjoy the race quite a lot, even if I’m really not fond of many of the Sylvari npcs I encounter.

I wanted to like Trahearne. When I first encountered him, I found him intriguing. I do like his physical design (even if he looks far too young for his voice) and the voice itself caught my attention despite sounding sort of stilted. I’d noticed inconsistency in the writing and had assumed the stilted speech was in part due to that.

But very rapidly, I grew to dislike and resent him. Not because he stole my limelight or anything like that, but because of his massively wasted potential. The VA is an actual competent actor who has been in films and you can hear emotion in his “fake Trahearne” lines when the character is a mesmer illusion. There are a few moments where his dialogue writing doesn’t suck (those same illusion scenes primarily). Occasionally, you see that he has an allergy to responsibility and he seems to be, from time to time, very shy. He’s also a necromancer whose job is to cleanse a land of the dead and aid another in taking down the dragon of undeath. There’s so much story potential there it’s insane.

And none of it is ever pulled off for any length of time, or used as much as it could be. Ever. Everything just falls flat and he becomes the Deus ex Machina Mary Sue, boring you while everyone else loves him and he yanks plot devices from his backside left and right. I did not go in hating him, I was not blindsided by him, and I still can’t stand the character. I absolutely can’t put all the blame on the voice actor, it seems as though he didn’t have a lot to work with.

Jelle.2807:

I hate Trahearne because of what he could have been but never was.

Egon Vidar.9125:

Let me say, first, that my main is Sylvari, and I have three Sylvari alts aside from him. I enjoy the race quite a lot, even if I’m really not fond of many of the Sylvari npcs I encounter.

That’s actually my main problem with playing a Sylvari as my main. With a scant few exceptions, roughly every Sylvari NPC you meet is a complete moron. I get that the ditzy valley-girl personae is “hillarious”, but do we have to repeat the same joke with every single NPC? Hrmph.

I might not like Trahearne, but at least he’s not also an idiot.

I personally really love Trahearne…
However! I can completely understand both sides of opinion.

I never understood why so many people dislike Trahearne. I thought he was a great character. He’s a flawed being.

He has fears, ambitions, hopes, dreams. He’s very relatable, very human, be it he’s a Sylvari. The Mary Sue thing doesn’t stick. He’s not a perfect in every way character.

The overarching thing I get from most people is that he steals your thunder, but he really doesn’t. The campaign against Zhaitan wouldn’t have been successful without the PC.

And yes, he get’s a really cool sword. It’s his. You get like, a million billion cool swords. Trahearne can have one.

Literally the only things I dislike about Trahearne are the following:

1) That he gets Summon Flesh Golem*s* when the rest of us Necromancers have to make do with Summon Flesh Golem.

and

2) That he kinda loses interest in the whole “save Tyria” thing after he completes his Wild Hunt.

I actually really like that the PC doesn’t become the leader of the Pact because realistically that would require a switch to a strategy game. It’s kinda a nice bonus for Sylvari characters that they get someone from early on in their story to play such a role in it the whole way down. If you’re a commoner Human, Petra might as well not exist after around level 25.

Trahearne and the entire skritt population should have been killed off and the main character should be able to spend their post PS days chewing the cud w/ Tybalt instead of what actually happened

I like Threarne, he is awesome

I can see why people hate him, but from the Sylvari POV it sorta makes sense… although the personal story was far too quick in giving him none of the glory, to all of the glory.

Don’t feel like he took my spotlight but he took my sword T__T

I like him actually, but I find it hilarious reading what others think of him! XD Such passionate hatred!

I’m okay with his character; I just don’t know why he is a Necromancer, of all classes.

I think he’s too sensitive of a person.
I have a hard time imagining him cutting up and sewing dead corpses, conjuring up dark spells & horrific curses or commanding undead, walking monstrosities, using rot and disease to wither his enemies.

I know he’s a student of Orr, but then I’d expect him to simply have knowledge or the occasional artifact lying around; not that he’d be a Necromancer himself.

Eh? Killeen isn’t exactly an insensitive jerk either.

Ilike Trahearne.

Also, sylvari don’t see necromancy as dark or evil, it’s just another kind of magic, and they don’t get hung up on corpses. They don’t have the cultural aversion to death that we do.

nica.5829:

Don’t feel like he took my spotlight but he took my sword T__T

I like him actually, but I find it hilarious reading what others think of him! XD Such passionate hatred!

This! Poor Trahearne.

(“Now his haters are making him sympathetic! Kitten that Mary Sue!”)

I rather like him, though the characterization in this game is shallow and rushed enough to make it hard to truly like any character — Trahearne is no worse in that regard than anyone else. His voice is pleasant, and I like his more quiet, thoughtful demeanor because I’m an introvert and not fond of the tendency to see those traits as bad or boring while loud or “quirky” characters are seen in a more positive light.

What I don’t like is how he’s used later on, as well as the fact that the game’s a bit too in-our-faces about how the NPCs are all in awe of him once he’s shown off a bit in combat (which honestly has nothing to do with coordinating a huge war effort, so I really didn’t see the point in that mission). Again, shallow and rushed characterization is to blame here. Not to mention the overall problems with the approach to storytelling that I’ve gone on and on about in other threads — basically, our own character is never allowed to BE a character and thus cannot truly carry the story, in no small part due to budget issues with voice acting. This means that even if Trahearne never showed his face again, there would always be other NPCs taking the spotlight. Witness Kiel in the past living story chapters, or the living story in general: our own characters are completely sidelined, mute and meaningless in general because Anet can’t afford to pay 10 different voice actors for the same role.

Trahearne is really not the problem. I don’t get why people don’t think for a moment and question the underlying problem with the writing, instead of just jumping on the hate bandwagon. Want to blame someone for “stealing” the protagonist role? Blame whoever decided that the story aspect of this game would not get enough funds to be any good.

I really hope they won’t kill him off — or worse, corrupt him first and then have us kill him — just to appease the haters.

The heroes in most games tend to be mute, silent characters.

Ours by comparison interacts with the world a bit, but in general most games tell their story from the NPCs.

To people that have this complaint, do you hate Zelda games because Link hardly says two words and confirms most things with a nod of his head?

Never played a Zelda game I didn’t like, and I can really appreciate my character isn’t a mute and exceedingly valuable to the story that unfolds.

Trahearne needed me. Trahearne didn’t steal my glory. I was never in it for glory.

It began as a duty for my people that branched out into a broader unite and save the world deal.

To that end the fact that my character, a human, has charr raising war banners in my honor tells in no small part that I’m a pretty popular guy for it all.

I’ll admit that I actually like Trahearne as a person (he seems to be the sort of bloke who would make for good conversation over a pint in the Union bar), but the shallow character arc and the frankly crummy voice acting spoil it. Character model is a bit odd, but most of the sylvari models are anyway.

All my hate is reserved for Logan ‘lovesick puppy’ Thackary, who really needs to stop mooning over Queen Jennah and get a girlfriend.

CETheLucid.3964:

The heroes in most games tend to be mute, silent characters.

Depends on what sort of games you’re looking at. I’m talking about ones that actually have a story and characters, i.e. RPGs or adventures. When voice-acting was on the rise, the protagonists I played were generally “silent” in the sense of not being voiced, but they certainly weren’t “silent” in the sense of not interacting with anyone or playing no role in the story.

In the “living story” our character does not exist because we never participate or are acknowledged in any of the interactions that advance and explain the plot, even though we do all the dirty work as usual. It’d say it’s like playing a trained animal who only exists to have orders barked at it — but Frostbite is a trained animal, and he gets to be more of a character than we are.

As badly constructed as the personal story is, at least our characters get to participate in those moments there, even though what they say is 100% controlled by the game and always the same for everyone. The difference between our level of involvement is huge.

Chadramar.8156:

Depends on what sort of games you’re looking at. I’m talking about ones that actually have a story and characters, i.e. RPGs or adventures. When voice-acting was on the rise, the protagonists I played were generally “silent” in the sense of not being voiced, but they certainly weren’t “silent” in the sense of not interacting with anyone or playing no role in the story.

In the “living story” our character does not exist because we never participate or are acknowledged in any of the interactions that advance and explain the plot, even though we do all the dirty work as usual.

I was personally invited to this recent shindig by the Queen of Kryta. I just finished participating a few mins ago.

The asura emissary Vorpp is currently depending on my efforts to get intel on Scarlet’s attacks and invasions.

On a personal level, the story doesn’t progress without me. I get this whole process moving and I’m indispensable to that end. I’m the one who ends up “getting it done.”

You’re free to feel you’re not heroic or helpful or not mentioned enough I suppose, but I don’t feel that way at all.

But then, I’ve never been one to demand a pat on the back.

Maybe you want more personal references or more “I’m the big hero, praise me!” moments? I dunno.

I mean could you elaborate on what you mean when you say that we don’t exist or participate in the Living Story?

In terms of pure dumb hack-n-slash game mechanics, yes, we’re “indispensable”. In terms of actual storytelling and characterization, though, we’re utterly invisible.

The story progresses mainly through two things: cutscenes and scripted conversations. While the personal story has the character as an active, speaking participant in most the cutscenes, the living story does not. Ever. As a result, I just feel completely disconnected from what’s going on. My character is a nameless, mute extra who never gets to state an opinion, make choices, talk to anyone, get to know anyone, connect to anyone or display a shred of personality.

It’s not about wanting to the The Super Mega Awesome Chosen One Who Alone Can Save The World — far from it, I’m sick of that sort of ridiculous ego-humping we often or even usually get in games. I don’t mind and in fact enjoy being part of something greater, taking orders, reporting to mentors and elders and commanders. But I want to be involved and acknowledged as such. If the writing had been better overall, becoming Trahearne’s friend, advisor and second-in-command until he completes his Wyld Hunt could have been a very enjoyable part of the game. In the living story, though, the disconnect between being the one who has to do all the work but is otherwise completely ignored is just huge.

This is getting quite off-topic, so sorry for the derail. The botched storytelling in this game is simply a massive source of disappointment and frustration for me on so many levels.

What I don’t like about Trahearne is not the character himself, but the poor execution.

In writing, we have a saying: “Show, don’t tell”. If a character is a great painter, don’t write “he was a good painter”, you show other characters reacting to it, you show the awards they won, you show them covered up to their elbows in paint with little flecks of it stuck in their hair. You show them painting, you don’t tell the readers that they paint.

Trahearne is the opposite. We are told he did great things, but never shown him doing great things. We are told he spent years in Orr, sneaking around trying desperately not to get killed to smuggle out vital knowledge to the other races so they could confront Zhaitan… but when we return he gives it all the emotional importance of going to the grocery store. Where is the psychological damage? Where are the physical scars?

We are told that he “can’t do this without you”… but at every turn, every time we choose path A, we find out that path B happened just fine without us. This lack of agency on the part of the player, the lack of repercussions for our choices, shows that things CAN get done without us (and shows trump tells in story writing).

I think a lot of the Trahearne hate also stems from the comparison between him and the mentors. The mentors were written amazingly, all three were good examples of “show, don’t tell”. We are shown Sierans’ love of life and desire to experience as much as possible before she dies. This makes her final lines so much more impactfull. We are shown Forgal’s sense of honour and duty, his desire for a meaningful death and fear of growing too old and useless to do so. Lastly, and likely the easiest and most direct comparison happens for Whispers players between Tybalt and Trahearne.

Both Tybalt and Trahearne have massive self-esteem issues, they both feel they will never be able to live up to the tasks they have been given in life. However, Tybalt shows this by shirking taking on new responsibilities in the order, we are shown other character’s surprise when he takes on a new partner and starts to actually advance within the order. This makes his death a great character development as he is finally taking the ultimate responsibility to save the lives of others. Trahearne on the other paw… we are just told (again and again and again) how he “isn’t a soldier” and “I’m no general”… but that telling never amounts to anything, it just kinda dies.

Oddly enough, part of what makes the death of the mentors such an impact is that we KNOW they had amazing stories to tell, we know they would have went places and done/seen interesting things, thus their deaths were really cutting not just their lives, but their stories short. It hurt because the players felt they only got to the middle of an amazing book before it was torn from our hands. Trahearne however had half the game and did little with that time. We didn’t get a great story out of him (mostly due to poor characterization) so there was no impact when it ended.

TL;DR: Working with Trahearne is a shock change from the amazing writing of the mentors, which I think is where a lot of the hate comes from.

Tybalt :’( why things have to be that way?