Guild Wars 2

No straight sylvari? What about Tiachren and Ysvelta? What about the green knight storyline, (which is the VERY same one you bring up mind you), with the female sylvari (Gairwen?) mourning for her lost beloved male sylvari, being hounded by Bercilak’s unwanted affections?

The “gay” that’s being thrown in your face is simply all you care to notice.

SilverRule.7426:

I don’t think that you people understand that Sylvari do not have a gender. They may look like males and females, but they aren’t. They are all just plants, so if one “female” sylvari likes another “female” sylvari, its not gay, because they don’t have a gender in the first place. Its just the overall appearance.

They are male and female as defined by sylvari culture and standards, just not by human culture and standards. And I think the former should matter much more in regards to how things are defined for other races.

I was incredibly happy when I first encountered the gay relationships in GW2. I feel in most games it does feel forced. “Look at how accepting and progressive we are! Look at it!!!” Here, though, it was presented as being normal and natural. No different from how heterosexual relationships are shown. Here’s a person in love with another person and that’s it.

Yes, it does. I’m willing it ignore it because I like my Guardian, though.

I havent encountered a single homosexual in the game and I’m in the level 71 storyline, which proves that it is in fact NOT forced. It doesn’t even neccesarily occur.

It is really unfortunate though, I was looking forward to seeing such a thing.

It’s no more forced than we’re ‘forced’ to listen to Logan whine about Jenna. It happens. It’s covered. It moves on.

The only reason people are whining about it or picking it out is because they don’t want to see it in the first place because of personal bias/bigotry/distates/unlike/whatever.

We remember negative things much more clearly and more often than we remember positive things. That’s how the Human mind works. So you see something you don’t like, it stands out.

That’s the only reason it seems ‘forced’. because you don’t like it, so it stands out to you.

To those of us who don’t care or feel it doesn’t matter, it doesn’t stand out at all.

Because it doesn’t.

I actually give props to ANet for how this was handled.

They created a race that had the physical appearance of gender, because they were essentially made “in the image” of humans, but no real notion or need for gender. It would have been easy for ANet to cowtow to societal norms and make relationships only occur between Sylvari that looked male and female. But instead, they stayed true to their creation, and they have them love freely, and basically turned up their noses at any homophobes that complain.

Props.

Remember that the Sylvaris do not have sexual orientation since they do not breed or mate like other creatures do. The Sylvari choose their partner purely from social interests not sexual.

The fact that the OP (and others in this thread) chose to completely ignore the clear, frank and not at all subtle occurrence of Gairwen and ‘her’ dead ‘male’ love in that very same exact storyline tells me everything I need to know.

Yeah, forced is the wrong word. In the first arc of the Green Knight, when you saved a Sylvary’s lover, you don’t even find out that he’s a guy until you talk to him for the one line he has and go “Oh, that’s a male voice”. If you consider that “IN YOUR FACE”, then you probably shouldn’t go outside or two guys might make eye contact in your presence.

Seriously, I didn’t piece together Caithe/Faolin until I read this thread.

And yes, Logan needs to shut up about Jenna. Ugh…

Edit: Also the deal about Lord Faron being gay is probably based on stereotypes. Stop doing that.

I think what felt forced to you was the overt fawning, but that’s just the nature of Sylvari.

You’ll see that kind of adolescent romanticism highlighted throughout Sylvari storylines.

My suggestion is to enjoy and celebrate these qualities.

Things people worry about but then ignore the obvious.
I play a “male” sylvari who it appears pollinates as he runs, based on that during a short trip across a zone last night i pollinated “had sex” with 4 or 5 assura a charr serveral lizards a number of flowers and possibly a passing bear.
What would worry me more than the sex of another Sylvari is that we share the same mother.

I have stated to Anet myself that they made me uncomfortable with how they have made the Sylvari way to PC. I like the OP will not impose my life choices on others. I feel though that they have really over done the PC-ism on this race.
I actually changed my personal story due to how uncomfortable it made me feel.
Everyone has a right to do whatever they wish too in their bedrooms, but they need to tone it down in the game.
If I were to start preaching in the game I would get banned. So they either need to let me teach the Gospel if I so desire or tone it down.

Krosslite
I actually changed my personal story due to how uncomfortable it made me feel.
Everyone has a right to do whatever they wish too in their bedrooms, but they need to tone it down in the game.
If I were to start preaching in the game I would get banned. So they either need to let me teach the Gospel if I so desire or tone it down.

Well, that’s a you problem, isn’t it? Ask them to tone it down because YOU are uncomfortable with it? Where do you get off? And you assume they’re pandering with this race? Hardly. I think they just had a unique vision. And you already changed your personal story. That’s all you need to do.

I have stated to Anet myself that they made me uncomfortable with how they have made the Sylvari way to PC. I like the OP will not impose my life choices on others. I feel though that they have really over done the PC-ism on this race.
I actually changed my personal story due to how uncomfortable it made me feel.
Everyone has a right to do whatever they wish too in their bedrooms, but they need to tone it down in the game.
If I were to start preaching in the game I would get banned. So they either need to let me teach the Gospel if I so desire or tone it down.

Existing = getting in your face. Got it. I mean, that should apply for every couple in the game right? Then the whole Sylvari race should bother you, all around the Grove you can hear about them talking about their love interests.

Gross.

Krosslite.1950:

I have stated to Anet myself that they made me uncomfortable with how they have made the Sylvari way to PC. I like the OP will not impose my life choices on others. I feel though that they have really over done the PC-ism on this race.
I actually changed my personal story due to how uncomfortable it made me feel.
Everyone has a right to do whatever they wish too in their bedrooms, but they need to tone it down in the game.
If I were to start preaching in the game I would get banned. So they either need to let me teach the Gospel if I so desire or tone it down.

Sylvari are not Human.

Human morals/ethics/whatever do not apply to Sylvari.

There is nothing wrong with one Sylvari(Who are effectively genderless, aside from appearance) loving another Sylvari for who they are.

You should not let plants loving plants in a game bother you.

Krosslite.1950:

I actually changed my personal story due to how uncomfortable it made me feel.
Everyone has a right to do whatever they wish too in their bedrooms, but they need to tone it down in the game.
If I were to start preaching in the game I would get banned. So they either need to let me teach the Gospel if I so desire or tone it down.

Oh my god… Please, just stop right there and go play another race. Obviously your own bigoted beliefs are preventing you (and potentially others) from enjoying this game. Keep real-world religions out of this.

Speaking of that… Why aren’t you all “Fire and Brimstone” about the fact the game is based in a world with six “Gods”? Hmm?

sighs If I shared half of the things the closeted homophobes in this thread have made me feel I would seriously get in trouble. So, instead, I will just give a bit of advice-
Please play another race if you cannot see past the veil over your eyes and accept that this is a game, and in it there are plant people who love honestly and without barriers.

OP, to me it does not feel forced, as there are only two known “S/S” Sylvari Couples:

Caithe and what’s her face that is the “C.O.O” of the nightmare court and the two dudes in the green knight quest chain. That is not forced, if anything it is the total opposite, closeted.

At no time did i state to remove this behavior
These “plant” people where created by real people.
These real people have imposed a very “political correct” spin on this race.
I simple said to tone it down.
as for calling me a bigot
a bigot is a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, esp on religion, politics, or race.
I have shown tolerance. So by calling me that you have actually called yourself that by being “intolerant of my views”
I made my choice I chose I different person story.
I have the right to state I was made uncomfortable.
I never said at all to remove it kick it or rewrite the game.
All you have done is prove me correct by slamming and in so agreeing that if I were to stand in the gates in Lion’s Arch preaching from the Bible I would be banned from the game.
So who here is really acting like a bigot??
Its not me.

Nah, that’s still prejudice. Being so bothered by seeing two male-appearing Sylvari in love that you re-rolled paints a pretty clear picture about your views on real life gays, who have a right to exist and even be gay in public (!).

Let’s play a game. Let’s replace “PC” with ‘willingness to be gay where I can see them.’ That’s really what we’re talking about here, isn’t it? You having to see gay people. (Let me remind you that I have to see people being straight all the time. Even my own parents, the horror.)

“I have stated to Anet myself that they made me uncomfortable with how they have made [some[ Sylvari [be gay where I can see them]. I, like the OP, will not impose my life choices on others. I feel though that they have really over done the [willingness to be gay where I can see them] on this race.”

That sounds a lot like you’re imposing your life choices on others to me! Seeing two guys in love does not hurt you in any way. Homosexuality is not actually contagious. It is, therefore, really not your business to utter one word about it. I don’t go out of my way to tell you that your interpretation of Scripture is wrong, because it’s not my business. I don’t tell people to stop being visibly straight in my vicinity, either, although this thread kind of tempts me to start.

So who here is really acting like a bigot??

You are. And it’s tiresome to see religious fundamentalists feeling the need to crap on this kind of thing. This is one of the few Western games to be okay with homosexuality and bisexuality; there are plenty of MMOs that aren’t, and that’s part of why I don’t play them.

This was a major reason WHY I rolled sylvari, to show support for NCSoft’s decision to go there.

I’m offended by all the religion being thrown in my face. Pick a God on making my Human character. Where’s the atheist choice? Oh wait, it’s a game, it has it’s own Lore and History, best I play along and pick a cool looking god, even though it’s totally thrown in my face! But it’s ok, it’s fantasy.

And where’s my gay Asura!
So for all of five minutes of your life you saw two gay fantasy plant people, both who happened to be “male”, as male as tree fantasy people can be, and you got squeemish.

And out of the 1000 or so Sylvari NPCs in the game, there’s one M/M couple and one F/F couple that comes to mind, the F/F you’ll see if you do a prominant dungeon, the M/M only if you pick one out of the three options. I’m sure there was another F/F couple on one of the other lines, but since it’s “chicks on chicks” people mind less.

The same thing came up with Dragon Age 2. Crap game overall, but it had different romances in the game, which could be a much more major part of the game than these passing events in GW2. Someone cried wolf there too. You know what they got? Shot the hell down. Because Anet are catering to more people who play their games by showing more options. Gay people paid money for this game too, shouldn’t they feel represented in the world they’re investing time in too? Even if it’s just one race out of five, with very select events to trigger this IN YOUR FACE relationship stuff.

Thank god Anet didn’t make clown fish people where when the head female dies, the biggest male then becomes a female and gets ploughed by the next biggest male in line. Imagine trying to script that in your fish people town.

Illushia.3721:

You should not let plants loving plants in a game bother you.

This line has singlehandedly won the thread, in my opinion.

Krosslite, I’m sorry, but the others are right — you do not, in any way, shape, or form, come across as tolerant of others’ decisions. You and I both know it has nothing to do with your capability to preach in the game, if you so pleased, but, as others have pointed out, the fact that you can actively see these relationships in the game.

And, frankly, I doubt ANet would ban you for preaching. So long as you aren’t actually spamming the chat or endorsing hate, I do not think ANet has a leg to stand on and ban you with. Granted, it’s their game, they may ban as they please, but I just do not think they would.

Calling a gay couple existing in the game a sign of them being “politically correct” is enough to show you’re a bigot. Existing does not mean they are pushing their way of life on you. They are not trying to make you gay, the dude just wants you to stop the green knight from slaughtering his partner.

ok,I am gay.I haven’t esp. noticed any gay couples.I think OP is over reacting.If it been a straight couple you’d not even bat an eye at it.So sorry there happens to be gay and straight in the races.Big bloody deal.You took notice of the homosexual relationships and suddenly its throw in your face.Nothing is being forced.If i said straight humans were being forced on me you’d have a fit wouldn’t you?Its simply something you don’t consider the norm and it bothers you.It seems to me its another “oh no its GAY being betrayed as normal” and you can’t handle it.

On another note, Sylvari don’t honestly have a gender.They are plant people…from a tree.

Honestly, until I see a rainbow Sylvari, I will NOT be satisfied! Get on it ANet. Make a firstborn/secondborn all rainbow and glitter, plox!

Y u mad its vydia.6324:

…

We must be playing different games as I have yet to find the “Hot Coffee” feature. However, if there is sex to be found in the game, please do us all the pleasure of pointing out where we can find it.

Just so it’s clear, there are no sexual relationships visualized in Guild Wars 2.

Ajani:
Where’s the atheist choice?

They’re called Charr. xD Well, more Naytheists, but it still counts. x3 Sylvari are agnostic, mostly.

Edited by moderator: Quote deleted since the original message does not exist any more

The only thing I’m confused about is how Kross and the OP and this person I quoted weren’t expecting this. We’ve been told multiple times that all sylvari are, by human understanding/description, pansexuals, and that they are a very honest, expressive race. So it’s not like “RANDOM PC GAY GUYS ALL UP IN YOUR FAAAAAAACE!”, they’re merely showing us that they meant what they said. I mean…a little research before you spend $60 on your game and roll a race might do you some good.

Dat message deletion. I actually got sent to the suggestions forums with that. Jesus Christ.

@SirMoogie: What do you think love means for those couples? They share the same coloring book? They didn’t sell it as paternal or platonic love either.

@ Riku: Excuse me for playing a race because I like it’s lore and looks. A new race appealed to me. I thought I could escape the boring, horribly overplayed love relationships. There is no escape in any storyline, except maybe the Stag one, but that’s horrible for different reasons. Excuse me for expecting private life to remain private. I don’t care if it’s beloved is a he, she, or it. I can’t remember the exact wording, but I can remember that it got so stressed even my father got it from all across the room. In the Shield storyline, the love story was so badly written it made me cringe. It’s not even about sex. It’s about pestering me with information I don’t care about.

What did I expect? A story that doesn’t revolve around feelings. I can barely bring myself to care about feelings IRL, but for NPCs in a video game? Is there anything more boring than discussing gay / lesbian / straight couples in video games?

On that note, I’m done. 1/10 for the moderation btw. Mods: my post doesn’t provide any constructive criticism. Guess what. I don’t intend it to. This isn’t the suggestion forum, and frankly, I don’t care what the writers do anymore. GW2 can’t be taken seriously for it’s story. I posted to discuss why I can’t play a race which looks I like. I’m not an Arenanet consultant.

Y u mad its vydia.6324:

Dat message deletion. I actually got sent to the suggestions forums with that. Jesus Christ.

@SirMoogie: What do you think love means for those couples? They share the same coloring book?

@ Riku: Excuse me for playing a race because I like it’s lore and looks. A new race appealed to me. I thought I could escape the boring, horribly overplayed love relationships. There is no escape in any storyline, except maybe the Stag one, but that’s horrible for different reasons. Excuse me for expecting private life to remain private. I don’t care if it’s beloved is a he, she, or it. I can’t remember the exact wording, but I can remember that it got so stressed even my father got it from all across the room. In the Shield storyline, the love story was so badly written it made me cringe. It’s not even about sex. It’s about pestering me with information I don’t care about.

What did I expect? A story that doesn’t revolve around feelings. I can barely bring myself to care about feelings IRL, but for NPCs in a video game? Is there anything more boring than discussing gay / lesbian / straight couples in video games?

On that note, I’m done. 1/10 for the moderation btw.

Yes, well, not to get the last word here, but…you fell in love with the lore and looks. Everything in the lore tells you that they fall in love on the deepest level. Some guy’s inspiration in life is about to be slaughtered, for example. How dare he call that person his beloved. How dare he.

“Sylvari are usually honest, direct and focused, taking most things at face value. With the dream ensuring there is so much in common with the other sylvari, experience is cherished for creating uniqueness between them. They are eager to learn, experience and understand.”

“Romance and sex is practiced among the sylvari, disregarding gender between those involved. To a sylvari, love is about inspiration, and it has nothing at all to do with the physical form.”
-From the wiki

Sylvari are very expressive and emotional in general. Being in love is not a private thing either, so I don’t know what “private life” you speak of. Yes the dialogue is silly and most of the relationships overdramatic, but none branch into “private life” range.

If you want a storyline that doesn’t revolve around feelings, the most openly emotional race is a bad pick.

What did I expect? A story that doesn’t revolve around feelings. I can barely bring myself to care about feelings IRL, but for NPCs in a video game? Is there anything more boring than discussing gay / lesbian / straight couples in video games?

Might I suggest not involving yourself in any personal story, then? Stories try to evoke feelings in most cases, and the fact that ANet has managed to do this speaks to their ability to write a story. The fact that the story doesn’t appeal to you, however, only speaks for you. You’ve apparently chosen a new race, that’s great, but now it’s time to move on and leave your disdain for the Sylvari and their (apparently controversial) lore at the door.

Y u mad its vydia.6324:

@SirMoogie: What do you think love means for those couples? They share the same coloring book? They didn’t sell it as paternal or platonic love either.

I’m not saying it’s not those things, but it isn’t depicted. When you claim the game is displaying sexual relationships it’s misleading. They are depicting platonic love, that you’ve filled in the rest of your background knowledge does not entail that they’ve stepped over the line some how and made the game inappropriate, as you seem to be suggesting. I agree if there were depictions of sexual relationships, then it would warrant a higher than teen rating depending on detail (regardless of genders involved).

yea i noticed it in asura story line on the first toon i had made it to lvl 15 or so i re rolled didnt wanna listen to the guy asking if his lover guy was ok anymore.

i can say i hadnt noticed it in sylvari though

Tinni.4351:

Firstly, Lord Faren is not gay or there is nothing to indicate he’s gay. Indeed, if you play through the human storyline you find that he’s romancing two women at the same time.

As for the Sylvari, as the others have said – most Sylvari couples you encounter involve a man and a woman. I suspect that you have been caught by a stereotype and because of the Sylvari accent and the register in which they speak, you think they might be homosexual – just like Lord Faren, when they are not.

i must have read this wrong. can you elaborate?

Wobels – whaaat, where are there gay asura? Are you talking about Doxa and Kazz, in the Dynamics storyline? If so, then you’re mistaken; Doxa’s female.

I feel the part that is more forced is that of monogamous relationships at all between the Sylvari. For an obviously curious race in its teenage years, they would NOT be settling for single partners… they’d be all over that open love hippy thing from the 70’s. Sadly, that is probably going to be more frowned upon by fans of the game than the sexual bias or lack thereof.

Rhah.9437:

I feel the part that is more forced is that of monogamous relationships at all between the Sylvari. For an obviously curious race in its teenage years, they would NOT be settling for single partners… they’d be all over that open love hippy thing from the 70’s. Sadly, that is probably going to be more frowned upon by fans of the game than the sexual bias or lack thereof.

You’re placing human values and growth on a decidedly non-human race. And the game doesn’t delve into the sexual spectrum of relationships, so specifically pointing out such things would feel a little forced.

“First, I don’t have a problem with gay people.” Proceeds to have problems with gay people.
If you don’t like the lore of the Sylvari, well, sorry. It’s not going to change because you’re uncomfortable. It’s been stated very openly by the developers how the Sylvari feel love deeply, broadcast their emotions, and don’t discriminate on the basis of physical form. If you were surprised by that it’s because you didn’t look them up first, which is understandable, but don’t get all buttmad about it. They aren’t throwing anything in your face. That’s just how they are.
Frankly, I didn’t know about it before I chose the race, either. It was a surprise for me, and boy was it a welcome one. This is the first MMO I’ve played that’s had this as an open reality in the lore. It’s been needed for a long time and it makes sense for the race in question. Can’t deal with open sexuality? Play some other race.

Rhah.9437:

I feel the part that is more forced is that of monogamous relationships at all between the Sylvari. For an obviously curious race in its teenage years, they would NOT be settling for single partners… they’d be all over that open love hippy thing from the 70’s. Sadly, that is probably going to be more frowned upon by fans of the game than the sexual bias or lack thereof.

Sylvari don’t have an instinctual drive for reproduction, so I don’t see this happening. For them, sex is something fun you do with the person you care about most in the world. Humans are promiscuous because evolution has shaped our reproductive drive. Sleeping around more = impregnating more women/better chance of getting pregnant. Sylvari don’t have that to worry about.

Rhah.9437:

I feel the part that is more forced is that of monogamous relationships at all between the Sylvari. For an obviously curious race in its teenage years, they would NOT be settling for single partners… they’d be all over that open love hippy thing from the 70’s. Sadly, that is probably going to be more frowned upon by fans of the game than the sexual bias or lack thereof.

Sylvari are huge on Chivalry and ‘life-partners’ someone you spend your entire life with. They’ll grieve for months when they die, sometimes even going on a year or more.

Not sleeping with anything that moves.

" Not sleeping with anything that moves."

~Grin~ well seeing their plants that might not be the right phrase to use.

Such a pity that arenanet went with male/female sylvari apart from the gripes it seems to be causing for some it misses the huge unique RP potential of having a single sex race

Devildoc.6721:

Heterosexual couples in the game in general are mostly hinted at, Logan having unrequited feelings for his Queen…~snip~

I don’t think there is anything subtle about Logan’s feelings but perhaps that’s just what I gather from it. Everyone sees things in a different light. I’m not familiar with the others you mentioned.

Devildoc.6721:

Meanwhile in Sylvari story I can’t point out a single heterosexual couple I’ve encountered among Sylvari, but they sure do make sure that the first romantic couple you encounter in your personal story is gay, and your destiny’s edge member is a lesbian, and another lesbian Nightmare Court member is vying for Faolain’s attention and there was at least 1 other homosexual couple I remember encountering in the Grove. It wasn’t hinted at, it was overtly thrown at you. This makes it seem forced to me. It’d just be better if they weren’t so blatant about it, made it come into things more naturally, and if there were a proportional amount of subtle heterosexual sylvari as well.

Key word is subtle, all these sexual orientation things need to be subtle.

It may be different for different personal stories but the first Sylvari couple I encountered was a male and female, can’t recall their names?

I don’t really think it’s “forced”. Perhaps it feels unnatural/unfamiliar to you? I actually feel like it was done so naturally that it’s perfect. I had no idea Caithe’s lover was another female Sylvari until I got to the part in the story quest where she sees her again. It was an unexpected surprise.

My fiance and I are straight but are friends with many gay couples and singles alike so perhaps that’s why it feels no less natural to me than any other couple you encounter.

Everyone sees things in their own light though.

LOL this has got to be the funniest post I have ever read!! hahahaaa oh maaan

cargan.5689:

" Not sleeping with anything that moves."

~Grin~ well seeing their plants that might not be the right phrase to use.

Such a pity that arenanet went with male/female sylvari apart from the gripes it seems to be causing for some it misses the huge unique RP potential of having a single sex race

Eh. I like male/female, as it gives way more customization and personality choices.

I didn’t bother reading the entire thread, as I’ve seen this discussion over and over again in different situations of games, and other sorts of fiction.

Just a question for Devildoc, the OP; why do you feel the need to differentiate between “gay” and “lesbian”? Gay is not a genderspecific word, but another term for homosexual. Lesbian is targeted at females in the same way askitten is at men. Just another piece of the heteronorm finding it’s way into peoples lingo..

I like the fact that I don’t have to be forced into playing the typical hero character who chases after women. Its nice that they are finally including other sexual orientations into games.

Most plants have both sexes and these ones seem to just identify with a specific gender after they fall out of the tree. So the whole orientation system seems a bit weird to think of when it comes to plant people. They are probably more like leaves from a tree then people biologically.

They seem to identy with one though and most of the realationships seem to be strait when I see all the random I loves yous showing up every 5 seconds in the city and the stories with these dudes.

Here we go again… big deja vu like in the bioware forum.

Well remenber kids you dont have to like it just tolerate.

And they are plant people for Balthazar sake they dont even ‘do it’ they just sprout out of the pale tree unless some lore fanatic prove me wrong…but i think that doing a spinach salad is the closest you can get.