Guild Wars 2

Steve Jinks is the only fictional character revealed to be homosexual that actually didn’t feel forced to me. XD
It made perfect sense when he revealed it, because it was entirely relevant to the situation he was in. And his character doesn’t use it to define how he can and cannot talk, dress, act or anything. It’s just another aspect of who he is. Which is very cool.

Honestly, it took me until level 30 or so to even realize that the pairings between sylvari are not always male/female. I finally realized it when Caithe was talking and I realized she was talking mournfully about another female.

As a horticulturist I feel the need to point out that sexual reproduction is actually very uncommon in the plant world. Asexual reproduction is far more common (kind of like the Sylvari origin). For the majority of plant species there are no ‘genders’. In fact…the majority of plants have both ‘male’ and ‘female’ parts, hence the term self-polination.

I think it would be weird if gender mattered to the sylvari, because it rarely ever does in the plant world. Why turn this into a human issue when it obviously isn’t?

Rarespawn.6028:

Why turn this into a human issue when it obviously isn’t?

For whatever reason — and this isn’t a slight, but an observation — some people are unable to accept fictional lore for what it is and feel the need to push human (especially their own) morals and ideals onto everything. It’s a huge disconnect, unfortunately.

I think it’s neat, cause it makes sense for a species (they’re not a race) that’s brand new, are all plants, and don’t have sex for procreative purposes.

I’m also sad that my character can’t marry Caithe. But there WAS some hot norn chick hitting on me in Hoelbrak, sooooo I’ll just hang out there a bit more.

They’re a race.

Well, it might be accurate to say they are a race within a species that is non-human. However, they are still a distinctly non-human species as they are not a primate.

But “playable race” is much less wordy than “playable species” lol.

Cinder.4865:

Rarespawn.6028:

Why turn this into a human issue when it obviously isn’t?

For whatever reason — and this isn’t a slight, but an observation — some people are unable to accept fictional lore for what it is and feel the need to push human (especially their own) morals and ideals onto everything. It’s a huge disconnect, unfortunately.

I agree with you.

The funny thing is this isn’t even fictional lore though…this is just how plants work in the real world. There is nothing outlandish or unnatural about the Sylvari behavior. Even the fact that they were shaped into human shapes. There are many examples of plants that mimic either bird or insect shapes in the wild. Usually because this is beneficial to the plant. Bottom line is, a plant, even if it looks like an insect, will still behave like a plant. Hence, Sylvari, who are plants that happen to look like humans, will still behave like plants.

It doesn’t feel anymore forced than all the heterosexual relationships feel, to be honest. To play a game that doesn’t limit itself to heterosexual relationships purely, or have lesbian relationships there more as a fanservice than a story device, is a nice change of pace. Additionally, it’s also nice to see some m/m relationships that aren’t full of stereotypes.

To those who are all “but I don’t want to see something like this, stop forcing it on us” I challenge you to be a tad more empathetic to those who are subjugated to heterosexual relationships in nearly every other facet of life, where seeing any sort of same gender relationship is simply rare; if anyone ought to stop stuffing their preferred relationships down people’s throats, it’s all the heterosexual couples and imagery that’s found practically everywhere. (Not that I, personally, have anything against any relationship with two consensual persons… just making a point regarding some posts earlier on).

Plus, the sylvari were stated beforehand to be a pansexual species… which sorta fits the whole plant deal they have going on.

I’m simply shocked that people are far more worried about the physical aspect of the relationships than the emotional part, which is the whole idea of Sylvari romance.

If you love someone only because they got a nice rack or a six-pack, you’re doing it wrong. Sylvari do not care for physical barriers, whoever makes them happy earns their love. It’s a romantic’s dream come true, no?

I met an heterosexual couple in my storyline, and i also spoke with an npc near " House of Caithe" that tells her story and her beloved male “boyfriend” that betraid her.

So…No it is not forced.

Also, again, Ysveltta and Taichern in the Shield of the Moon story (who are probably what Blinka is talking about but the emphasis needs to be made), and even in the Green Knight story the Green Knight himself is courting a female Wyld Hunt Valiant who’s Boyfriend he kills in a jealous rage. Meanwhile all that happens with that gay couple you mentioned is one of them running up to you and Caithe begging you to save his boyfriend from being killed by the Green Knight, and that’s the only time you see them.

TroublesomeKnight.7809:

Meanwhile all that happens with that gay couple you mentioned is one of them running up to you and Caithe begging you to save his boyfriend from being killed by the Green Knight, and that’s the only time you see them.

You do see them once more, but in a non-voiced and irrelevant to the story role. They are present as witnesses when you do your final duel against Bercilak. You can speak to them if you wish before the fight.

Technically, the Dream can be thought of as one big orgy.

To be honest, I’m more bothered by the question if there are relationships between different races, than gay Sylvari couples. I’m not talking about Charr and Asura couples, this would be just too … strange. But what about Sylvari and Human? Since the Sylvari are shaped after the Humans, I imagine they could fall in love with each other, but never saw or heard in the game of it… at least I can’t remember.

Back to the original topic, I met the gay couple in the green knight storyline too, but it was so incidental, that it didn’t feel forced to me. It was just right.

(sry, about my english. the german forum is just so boring, I had to switch to the english one.)

Honestly, the male/male couple in the Green Knight story line made me smile when I saw them. They acted just like any other couple would normally. The last scene that involved them had one complaining that the other was squeezing his hand so hard that he thought it was going to break. I found it adorable, anyways.

If the close-minded folk are going to hate the race because of such and feel forced to see such explicit content, then let them roll another race. No one seems to complain(as much) about the w/w lore couple that we have(technically, had?). My assumption is that the typical reaction is “it’s hawt” so they accept it better than something that they don’t like. But, I stress this, if knowing of a same sex couple(of plant people or actual humans) makes you uneasy, then be respectful and don’t be rude about it. They’re people who just want to find companionship, there’s no one who can say that’s wrong.

Niji.8034:

To be honest, I’m more bothered by the question if there are relationships between different races, than gay Sylvari couples. I’m not talking about Charr and Asura couples, this would be just too … strange. But what about Sylvari and Human? Since the Sylvari are shaped after the Humans, I imagine they could fall in love with each other, but never saw or heard in the game of it… at least I can’t remember.

Back to the original topic, I met the gay couple in the green knight storyline too, but it was so incidental, that it didn’t feel forced to me. It was just right.

(sry, about my english. the german forum is just so boring, I had to switch to the english one.)

In one interview concerning their affections, Ree (I think) did mention that Sylvari do not care about race either. Sadly, I haven’t seen any obvious examples of Sylvari interracial couples in the game.

On the Beta forums, someone once made a very funny comment about it, though:
“I want to see a Charr marry a Sylvari. A cat and his nip.”

Nobody is forcing anything on anyone. This is Anet’s game and they decide the development and content. If you don’t like it you can always choose not to play the game.
The terms “forcing and throwing” are subtle homophobic terms btw that are used to slip discriminatory views into a conversation.

Niji.8034:

To be honest, I’m more bothered by the question if there are relationships between different races, than gay Sylvari couples. I’m not talking about Charr and Asura couples, this would be just too … strange. But what about Sylvari and Human? Since the Sylvari are shaped after the Humans, I imagine they could fall in love with each other, but never saw or heard in the game of it… at least I can’t remember.

Back to the original topic, I met the gay couple in the green knight storyline too, but it was so incidental, that it didn’t feel forced to me. It was just right.

(sry, about my english. the german forum is just so boring, I had to switch to the english one.)

I was wondering about the interracial possibilities, too. It would make sense to me that humans and Sylvari would be interested in each other.
(Sein Englisch sind sehr gut. Ich spreche etwas Deutsch.) =p

I know that ANet said they couldn’t interbreed, buuut…yeah. I wonder too. I’m guessing it happens.

I’m just going to say that Sylvari have no sexual organs, and thus, no sexual relations. I don’t care if someone said they do, because that’s stupid.
But since they’re plants, they likely pollinate. Maybe that’s what all those fireflies lurking around the Grove are.

fractalKinesis.8569:

I’m just going to say that Sylvari have no sexual organs, and thus, no sexual relations. I don’t care if someone said they do, because that’s stupid.
But since they’re plants, they likely pollinate. Maybe that’s what all those fireflies lurking around the Grove are.

Congratulations. You called a Dev stupid. ._.

They can have physical sex. But it doesn’t make babies.

Yeah, maybe I did. So what? It’s a nonsensical distinction to make for sentient woody monocots. They shouldn’t feel things physically the same way any of the fleshy races should. You don’t hear about earth elementals doing it.

Obviously, it was placed for the express purpose of enabling Rule 34, and making the gay love stories familiar to people with no creativity (but lots of argument in them!) Wouldn’t want to alienate those who are all too willing to alienate the rest of the world.

fractalKinesis.8569:

I’m just going to say that Sylvari have no sexual organs, and thus, no sexual relations. I don’t care if someone said they do, because that’s stupid.
But since they’re plants, they likely pollinate. Maybe that’s what all those fireflies lurking around the Grove are.

Except that the devs have expressly come out and said that they do in fact have sexual organs and do have sexual relations.

But given that you think they only have organs to ‘enable gay stories’ despite that most of the relationships we see are in fact what we would consider heterosexual, I think you’re being a donkey just to be a donkey.

fractalKinesis.8569:

Yeah, maybe I did. So what? It’s a nonsensical distinction to make for sentient woody monocots. They shouldn’t feel things physically the same way any of the fleshy races should. You don’t hear about earth elementals doing it.

Obviously, it was placed for the express purpose of enabling Rule 34, and making the gay love stories familiar to people with no creativity (but lots of argument in them!) Wouldn’t want to alienate those who are all too willing to alienate the rest of the world.

Sylvari are not elementals. However, Sylvari were created using Humans as a template. You can then assume from this that they do feel things in a similar fashion, and that they do have similar bits and pieces — especially given the fact that they cover said bits and pieces. It is, therefore, not as nonsensical as some want to make it out to be.

Fantasy lore is a funny thing, really. You don’t have to like it, but to make an assumption behind its role as you have done is a gigantic misstep.

I, personally, love the Sylvari after ignoring them throughout the betas as “darn elves again”. The fact that love and romance are so deeply part of their culture, without any reference to gender makes them unique. Their views may seem odd from the outside, but have been tenderly created by devs who can ignore their own humanness and sink deeper into the Sylvari psyche to allow such an alien culture to blossom. Won’t be playing any other race from now on, as their openness to their pansexuality is something I didn’t expect to see in a 12 rated game. Their love for the world and eachother is moving and emotional.
Thank you devs.

fractalKinesis.8569:

Yeah, maybe I did. So what? It’s a nonsensical distinction to make for sentient woody monocots. They shouldn’t feel things physically the same way any of the fleshy races should. You don’t hear about earth elementals doing it.

Obviously, it was placed for the express purpose of enabling Rule 34, and making the gay love stories familiar to people with no creativity (but lots of argument in them!) Wouldn’t want to alienate those who are all too willing to alienate the rest of the world.

You obviously have not read any of the GW2 novels. They feel scratches, they bleed (goldish “sap”), they feel touch. They are plant-based… Not a rock. -_-

The male Sylvari is basically a prettyboy, but come on I never even once thought about that. Johnny Depp was a prettyboy for a while, is he a homo?

Drew.1865:

Nobody is forcing anything on anyone. This is Anet’s game and they decide the development and content. If you don’t like it you can always choose not to play the game.
The terms “forcing and throwing” are subtle homophobic terms btw that are used to slip discriminatory views into a conversation.

And the term “homophobic” is a word that’s subtly used for character assassination.

The OP made some good points regarding subtly of sexual orientation (and yes, even heterosexual relationships can get annoying. The relationship between the queen and Logan is nearly cringe inducing). If it begins to get overly obnoxious, it detracts from the suspension of disbelief and the general atmosphere of the story.

Terok.7315:

If it begins to get overly obnoxious, it detracts from the suspension of disbelief and the general atmosphere of the story.

For some, and the same could be said of any plot string for any given person. X finds this plot string trite and obnoxious, Y finds that plot string trite and obnoxious, so on and so forth.

It’s a matter of opinion and perspective.

TheKillerAngel.3596:

Human x Sylvari

Would you do it?

For a Sylvari like Caithe? I’d go vegetarian lol.

For the Chris Rock fans: “Did you toss her salad? Didya?”

I hadn’t noticed the same-sex relationships before this thread. Probably because they were a lot less tacky than the Mass Effect gay relationships. All I saw was relationships.

I don’t feel that it’s forced in sylvari. They just have no notion of sexual orientation, they love no matter of the gender. Also, you ran into an homosexual couple first, but it depended on your personnal story. I personally didn’t see them first, and met a female sylvari asking for help to avenge her male mate.

Besides, for sylvari love and sex aren’t taboo as it is for humans at least. I feel no real reason for them to “hint” at things like that and keep them hidden when they talk so openly about everything. It’s not thrown at the player, it just is. Maybe it can feel strange for us, but that would mean the writers managed to realize the sylvari how they are meant to be. Sometimes shocking for their candid and direct point of view on everything. If you’ve read Ghost of Ascalon and remember about Killeen and her point of view on death, I’m sure you can relate …

Prior to game launch, I didn’t really have any interest in Sylvari.

But it’s characters like Killeen, mentioned above, and Caithe and other NPCs that more or less wear their innocence and their feelings on their sleeves that really make them interesting to me.

I worry that sentiments behind posts like the OP are from being too rooted in one viewpoint. If sylvari are "too" homosexual [skipping over whether or not that’s an appropriate label], then isn’t the human storyline too heterosexual?

I say, "No" to both, for what it’s worth, just making a hamfisted point.

This just seems like whining about something for the sake of whining about something.

I agree with this

Devildoc.6721:Key word is subtle, all these sexual orientation things need to be subtle.

And I have no problem with the orientation either just needs to be subtle becasue we do not know what some of the players age ranges are.

And aren’t they subtle?

They’re not making out or humping each other at any point in the story/game, they make mention that they’re with this person, with others being reasonable guesses. Eladus and Dagdar felt subtle to me, it wasn’t like other games where they actually inform you of their sexual orientation, just a “this is my beloved” and you go “oh he’s male okay” and move on. At least, that’s how it was for me.

Edit: I forgot to address the bit about player age ranges, so: the game is rated for teens. If a parent allows their child to play the game, they should be aware of this rating and should be prepared for their child to see something they may not necessarily agree with. If they are offended, they can have their child stop playing the game, but there is no nudity and no sexual acts depicted by the game, so I do not see the problem. If they can handle gratuitous violence, I’m fairly sure they can handle a couple of plant men referring to each other as “beloved”.

Relmord.3159:

I agree with this

Devildoc.6721:Key word is subtle, all these sexual orientation things need to be subtle.

And I have no problem with the orientation either just needs to be subtle becasue we do not know what some of the players age ranges are.

Orientations outside hetreosexual aren’t something that needs to be hidden from children. :I OMG!!! Our kids learn to be accepting and realize that not everyone is like mommy and daddy?!

Seriously this is just gross. Besides, I’m pretty sure this game is T rated anyways.

Niji.8034:

To be honest, I’m more bothered by the question if there are relationships between different races, than gay Sylvari couples. I’m not talking about Charr and Asura couples, this would be just too … strange. But what about Sylvari and Human? Since the Sylvari are shaped after the Humans, I imagine they could fall in love with each other, but never saw or heard in the game of it… at least I can’t remember.

Back to the original topic, I met the gay couple in the green knight storyline too, but it was so incidental, that it didn’t feel forced to me. It was just right.

(sry, about my english. the german forum is just so boring, I had to switch to the english one.)

Yes, there are cross-race relationships (there is one in Orr), and various NPCs mack on folks of other races: some sylvari girls on a human guy, a human girl on a norn guy. In 1, you get proposals for marriage from Norn.

It’s mostly Charr and Asura that get left out, as their physical appearances are so different from the other three.

Relmord.3159:

And I have no problem with the orientation either just needs to be subtle becasue we do not know what some of the players age ranges are.

I hope you’re referring to all relationships and not just the same-gendered ones. There is no need to “protect the kids” from knowing about the existence of gay relationships, especially in a fantasy world that has its own rules. Knowing about gay people will not turn kids gay, but if they are gay it will make it easier for them to come out because they see others living their lives happily as gay people. I’ve also heard it claimed that it’s just too early for them to learn about these things? Like what? Sex? I do not need to discuss sexual relationships to discuss relationships from a platonic perspective. Many straight couples discuss their relationships with children without bringing up sex.

Sylv.5324:

Yes, there are cross-race relationships (there is one in Orr), and various NPCs mack on folks of other races: some sylvari girls on a human guy, a human girl on a norn guy. In 1, you get proposals for marriage from Norn.

It’s mostly Charr and Asura that get left out, as their physical appearances are so different from the other three.

Oh, okay, thanks für the information. Maybe I’m always listening to the NPCs at the wrong times. I haven’t reached Orr yet, but I will watch out when time comes.

Now first off, I know this is a bit of a charged issue, and I just don’t want anyone assuming that I hate heterosexual people. I know they get a lot of bashing in the news and there’s a lot of moralistically religious people(Not all of them, mind you!) out there who have been violently persecuting them for about two thousand years now, but I think now that intolerance for heterosexuals is pretty much completely gone from society now(I mean, they have the religious freedom to get married in like 4 states now!) I think it’s time we talked about something earnestly.

Does heterosexuality in humans, asura and norn feel a little… forced? Unlike in all the homosexual sylvari relationships, where the intimacy is largely inferred, the heterosexual relationships in these races is stated rather loudly. Before my Asura was 10 he had taken place in ACTIVELY FACILITATING an open heterosexual relationship in their personal storyline – something I did not want to do and that really creeped me out. I ran into a half dozen hetereosexual NPCs that were vaguely flirtation towards one another. I remember seeing a dialogue string where two YOUNG hetereosexual asura(should we really be exposing our kids to this??) were about to go on a date(are they seriously teaching UNDERAGE KIDS to be SEXUALLY STRAIGHT? This is so wrong) and the boy’s father sent a robot after them that told them to ‘keep their hands where it could see them’. This has OBVIOUS graphic heterosexual connotations, and deeply offends me. Given that studies show that heterosexual parents are relatively bad for children, can we please just lay off all the blatant heterosexuality in this game?

Again, I do NOT hate heterosexual people(no really I have a straight friend!), but their presence really offends me and could you please keep it out of my fantasy game where I go to get AWAY from them. If you can’t do that at least make it a little more subtle because I mean seriously those people are gross and should be forcefully kept out of my sight.

K thnx bye xoxoxoxoxo and rainbows OR ELSE

I have seen lots of sylvari talking about love all over the place and for the most part I don’t really notice gender at all, which means they’ve done their job quite well, in my opinion. So no, it doesn’t feel forced to me at all. It feels very fluid and natural.

Y u mad its vydia.6324:

What did I expect? A story that doesn’t revolve around feelings.

Umm… what?

This does not compute.

I love my gay sylvari.

To the person who said homosexuality is accepted in society now: I’m sorry but you’re completely wrong, homosexual discrimination still thrives strongly in all communities, western, middle-eastern, or eastern. My friend has to deal with this discrimination every day.

I think this thread, shows how many people still have major issues with homosexuality, and would rather not ever be confronted with it. Starting a thread with saying “I have no problems with homosexuality, but..” is the same as saying: “Please get this gayness out of my face.”

I personally think that playing a female human Noble doing A Society Function is more forced homosexuality than all of the Sylvari combined

Here is the dialogue for the start of the quest:
Countess Anise: This will be delightful. Having the hero of Shaemoor on my arm will make tongues wag. <Player name>: Thank you for letting me join you this evening, Countess. Countess Anise: I'm always willing to do what I can for queen and country. That being said, let me offer you some unsolicited advice. Countess Anise: First, mingle. Speak to everyone. You never know who will say something they'll regret later. Countess Anise: Second, don't limit your conversations to nobility. Servants and guards see everything. <Player name>: Understood. I suppose it goes without saying that I should be discreet? Countess Anise: You catch on fast. Go on and charm the masses. You know where to find me if you need me, pet.

Well my character’s pistol is only interested in stamens. Period! No pistol/pistol action here, no sir, no way!

Hardly anyone complains about the female-female relationships. Most straight men wouldn’t. Only the male-male relationships get flak because said straight men don’t find that ‘Hawt’.

Same way I could complain about half of the light armor outfits for females. Only a handful are actually modest, while the other half makes out your character as a lady of the streets. That’s frowned upon in normal society too.

Bleeds.4029:

Well my character’s pistol is only interested in stamens. Period! No pistol/pistol action here, no sir, no way!

Pft. False. No sylvari anywhere care about pistols or stamens. Including yours!

No, I do not feel it is forced. There are PLENTY of examples of both male/female couples in Personal Story Crescent Moon or Armored Green Knight.

I think its just more noticeable because its new to most of us.

You’ll find all examples about, its just because it isnt the norm that this sticks out for you.