Guild Wars 2

This is just my thoughts I do not have any proof of this being true but this is just what I think.

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I will repeat just my idea!!!

I don’t think they would do this.

The entire point of the Nightmare Court is that they feel in a way betrayed by the Pale Tree’s devotion to Ventari’s Tablet and in their eyes it is as if their entire species has had the wool pulled over it’s eyes by some outside hand that had no right to do so.

Yes the Nightmare Court do some pretty nasty stuff, but they do it because they hope that one day Sylvari might break free and be their own natural selves. Their means of doing this are deplorable, but it’s the only way they see themselves possibly getting through to the rest of the Sylvari.

To have them in any way associated with Dragons, especially Faolain, would just completely destroy everything they stand for. They’re meant to be a balance to the purity and innocence of most Sylvari. Much in the same way that the Soundless are a balance for the connectedness of the Dream.

So yeah, also just my idea, but I don’t think Anet would want to devalue everything the Nightmare Court stands for by doing this. Yes they seem evil to us, but who are we to say that they’re wrong? Maybe Ventari was wrong for imposing life lessons on a race that altogether had nothing to do with him (even if he did so unintentionally). That’s the point of the Nightmare Court, they’re there to make you think and to offer more depth to the Sylvari as a race. Without them and the legitimacy of their cause you would just have a race of innocent child-like tree-ish people who unquestioningly follow these teachings laid out to them by someone they have never met.

Good Point Ty Flammingfox

True, but not necessarily the end of the matter.

Caithe mentions that Faolain and herself encountered a “darkness” which she shunned and Faolain embraced. She doesn’t mention whether this was before or after the founding of the Nightmare Court.

Cadeyrn, the founder of the Nightmare Court, is depicted as having formed it in a fit of jealousy, which is to say that his motives for doing so probably aren’t purely for philosophical or altruistic (if that’s the right word) reasons. It occured in a moment where he would be easy to manipulate.

Ironic that Caithe would trigger it the way she did… or did she?

Isn’t Faolain a mesmer? Slight of hand, manipulation and illusion are her stock and trade. What is a figurehead if not another distracting image to be discarded when inconvenient? And as “Caithe” said, Cadeyrn is just another Sylvari.

The philosophy may be built on the idea of shunning outside influences, but who can be certain that a seed wasn’t planted from an outside hand all the same?

Why betray one when you can betray many through the one? Or better still, convince them to betray themselves?

What is one more lie?

What is one more secret?

It may or may not be a dragon, but who knows what really lurks in dream and nightmare?

“…we gather in nightmare. We look to the darkest part of our spirits. The covetous hand, the lying heart, the knife that betrays a friend: we call upon these, and we see their power. For what are we, in the end, if not creatures of power? It will take strength to defeat the dragons, and strength does not come by turning away any weapon, no matter how vicious or how cruel. We will use them all.” Cadeyrn lounged on his throne with a careless, prideful slouch. A crown of golden vine glittered on his forehead as courtiers bowed and whispered before him, hanging on Cadeyrn’s every word, their eyes as lightless as the space between the stars.

“We, the sylvari, are the future. It is our time. We must leave behind the fears of awakening. Let go the stone that weighs us down. We were born to be more than this. We were born with a darkness in our Dream and in our heart that we could embrace…if only the Mother were not so afraid of the night. It is time to show her that her children are more than even she has dreamed we could be.

“If the sylvari are to survive, we must learn from the poison thorn and the stinging nettle, the vine that crushes the very sapling which holds it to the light. We will raise the nightmare. We will see Tyria remade in our image.
“We will grow until nightmare swallows the world."

Valzemodeus.8163:

-snip-

I definitely agree with everything you’ve pointed out. It’s all very valid.
However, you highlighted something very pertinent. The Nightmare Court still see the dragons as a threat and want to destroy them.

My point still stands that Anet wouldn’t want to associate the Nightmare Court with a dragon because it would undermine everything they’re supposed to stand for.

That being said I suppose it is actually viable that Faolain could be some sort of minion, but I think that would still exist independent of the rest of the Nightmare Court. You pointed out that she’s a mesmer so yes, perhaps the Nightmare Court are like puppets on her strings? But even then that might be a bit of a stretch.

There is a meta event in Caledon Forest ‘The Battle for Wychmire Swamp’ which hints at a darker force at work, something outside of the Nightmare Court (which is also hinted at with Zone Green at the Infinity Reactor Coil which people now theorize is pointing to the 6th Elder Dragon with plant based powers).

FlamingFoxx.1305:

However, you highlighted something very pertinent. The Nightmare Court still see the dragons as a threat and want to destroy them.

My point still stands that Anet wouldn’t want to associate the Nightmare Court with a dragon because it would undermine everything they’re supposed to stand for.

That being said I suppose it is actually viable that Faolain could be some sort of minion, but I think that would still exist independent of the rest of the Nightmare Court. You pointed out that she’s a mesmer so yes, perhaps the Nightmare Court are like puppets on her strings? But even then that might be a bit of a stretch.

There is a meta event in Caledon Forest ‘The Battle for Wychmire Swamp’ which hints at a darker force at work, something outside of the Nightmare Court (which is also hinted at with Zone Green at the Infinity Reactor Coil which people now theorize is pointing to the 6th Elder Dragon with plant based powers).

I did point out that they view the dragons as a threat, but then who says the dragons see each other as anything else? I kind of doubt that the dragons intend to share the world with each other any more than they intend to share it with anyone else.

Recruiting dupes to throw at your enemies is classic villain 101.

For lack of a better comparison, I’m going to point to the second Avatar series (The Last Air-bender one, not the blue alien one).

Again, it could be a dragon or it could be something else. The man behind the man is a fairly common trope and often acts as a sort of lubricant in the sorting algorithm of evil. Having it turn out to be what the man hates isn’t unheard of by any stretch of the imagination.

As for undermining what they stand for, the Nightmare Court aren’t supposed to stand for something one would really want to keep on a pedestal. Terrorism in the name of racial/ideological purity never really is, let alone becoming a horror for any reason. At best it’s a tragedy.

These aren’t misunderstood anti-heroes. They’re villains with a seductively skewed viewpoint. And villains, by nature, are usually (though not always) designed to be undermined, whether by heroes or themselves.

The nightmare court seeks to engulf the world in nightmare, but they themselves aren’t immune to it. They subject themselves and each other to it by nature. And if you think about it, what could be a greater nightmare than discovering everything you stand for and believe in is a lie, and that all your neatly crafted justifications for the things you’ve done were built on the very thing you thought you were fighting?

However, all of my suppositions are just that and A-net will do what they will do regardless. More than anything, I just like airing out my thoughts and love playing the devil’s advocate.

While this argument of “What they stand for” seems strong on an emotional level, it is merely a fallacy as far as rhetoric goes by way of Ad Misericordiam, or call to pity. The nature of corruption is often related to deception and, ultimately, tragedy, meaning it is possible the darkness embraced by the Nightmare Court is one of a Dragon in some respect or other and they cling to it unwittingly. For one, the basis of the Nightmare Court was originally to embrace the darkness in the Dream of Dream as part of their nature and accept the possibility of evil as a path to reach a greater good. It’s the good ol’ alignment shennanigan again. However, based on their actual behaviour, the Nightmare courters don’t merely embrace the darkness, they are consumed by it and act pretty aimlessly in the name of Freedom, proving their points with more hypocrisis than probative value, see for instance Bercilak. As far as actions goes, the Nightmare Court is, at best, wrong in assuming that freedom is equal to a formal opposition to Ventari’s teaching and, at worst, cartoonishly evil because they can and will, but I’d like to think Arena Net’s narrative is deeper than that shallow end of the metaphorical pool of motivations.

On the other hand, Faolain being the instrument of a Dragon in any respect seems pretty farfetched and this boat would float a lot better with Cadeyrn or other courters. She acts most likely with the exclusive intent of winning Caithe back using pretty despicable, yet desperate, means. While being the Duchess, probably out of raw power than anything else, she is more akin to a Yandere like Yuno Gasai than a corrupting tyrant. So, while not impossible, she would be the less likely candidat should this hypothesis be proven right in some way or other.

As for that hypothesis about the Nightmare Court or the Pale Tree being a dragon’s something or other, it seems pretty baseless, but could explain the endoctrinal nature of both parties: The Pale Tree is sending her children to slaughter a dragon, a rival dragon if taken in perspective of another dragon, then the Nightmare Court corrupts the Pale Tree to awaken their true master.

Doomsaying nonesense and conspiratorial theory-crafting as far as evidence goes, but the possibility lingers and could explain a lot in the long term and that’s pretty much the overall answer to the original topic: it’s just an hypothesis, an idea that needs proving of validity or invalidity and, by lack of means to experiment, remains just as is.

I will say I found it kind of sad that Cadeyrn was just a boss in the Story, I was hoping he would be more of a end of dungeon boss or something. Also to point I did not see him as a mesmer in game, I saw him more as a warrior, just what stories I had read of him when killing krait with the firstborn. This also could be part of the whole Faolain, being a Mesmer slight hand trick who really knows.