Maguuma
Meatitarian Sylvari
Orange trees are the most abused plants in the world.
Given hormones to increase the size of their fruits, their branches develop weak, making it hard to hold on to their children before they are fully ripe.
Their fruits are then plucked and crammed in crates with little room to move, and are shipped all the way from South America to the rest of the world.
Indeed, its appalling. And lets not even talk about what has been done to Wheat over the years. Not only have they been selective bred into mutant strains, but then they are killed by industrial “threshing” machines that decapitate their bodies and then rip the unborn wheat children away from the parent stalk where they are later on ground to pieces. Scary stuff.
Maguuma
(edited by Aeros.2046)
My Sylvari eats humans out of revengence for these food pyramid disasters. :<
As a Veg*n, who plays a Sylvari Ranger. I find this oddly interesting and thought provoking.
Not to mention all the sentient plants that end up on the menus of fancy eateries across Tyria. Iboga petals, Jaracanda Root… Lettuce.
You don’t make friends with salad.
Friends don’t let friends eat salad.
You realize that plants feed on the decayed remains of their fallen fellows, right?
Sure, but that is because they don’t possess higher level thinking and don’t know any better. I mean, we see animals eating other animals too because they don’t know better. As sentient plants though, we can choose to make the moral choice and not consume our fellow plants. Like our lesser brothers and sisters, we can eat plants, but thanks to our minds we can make the ethical decision not too and just eat meat.
Maguuma
I mean, we see animals eating other animals too because they don’t know better.
That sentence made me lol. .-.
You realize that plants feed on the decayed remains of their fallen fellows, right?
Adding the ability to move opens a pretty big door for a type of life-form. Sylvari have the ability to choose exactly what they want to eat. They can choose to spare the lives of all those lesser fortunate planties out there that can’t run around, or take long walks on the beach. Maybe a Meatitarian cult should form. :o
My $0.02:
Just as humans eat animals which are unrelated to us, Sylvari can eat plants which are not descended from the Pale Tree. It would only be cannibalism if they ate each other.
Regarding the ethics of eating other plants, well, that’s just silly. Organic matter is nutritious regardless of it being plant or animal based. Animals eat animals and plants eat plants. Plants also eat animals, and animals also eat plants. It doesn’t matter.
Why should a sylvari feel remorse for being part of nature also? Why should a sylvari impose superficial restrictions on himself above what nature already has? Why should a sylvari deprive himself of the same bounties nature provides to everyone else?
My $0.02:
Why should a sylvari feel remorse for being part of nature also? Why should a sylvari impose superficial restrictions on himself above what nature already has? Why should a sylvari deprive himself of the same bounties nature provides to everyone else?
1. All things have a right to grow. The blossom is brother to the weed.
1. All things have a right to grow. The blossom is brother to the weed.
If that rule is taken at face value, then a Sylvari shall never eat. Anything.
My best friend is a carrot. Some people are adverse to eating puppies or kittens. Likewise, I could never eat my little buddy.
Do Sylvari just photosynthesize?
As long as you get plenty of sunlight and remember to stick your head in a bucket of water every now and then, you’ll be fine.
Sylvari do photosynthesize but it only rejuvenates them. they need to eat and drink in the traditional sense to survive.
I always thought they just grab a bucket and a spoon and visit the outhouse for their lunch and dinner :P
eeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwww
There are some humans who are Vegetarians against their Omnivorous nature for many reasons. One of which is because they feel it is morally wrong to eat other animals, since humans are animals too.
But Sylvari are plants. So I suppose the reverse must be true for us. For ethical reasons, we cannot eat fellow plants and must make do living off the flesh of animals. It is the ethical choice.
Salad is murder!
Actually, the reason most Vegetarians don’t eat animals is because it is cruel to the animals to torture and kill them for pleasure. Plants, on the other hand, don’t feel pain and are incapable of thought, so it’s more acceptable to kill them for food. Thus, it would make more sense for a Sylvari (or anyone for that matter) to eat plants but not meat. Whether Sylvari are actually plants is also open to discussion.
Whether Sylvari are actually plants is also open to discussion.
Why wouldn’t they be?
Plants, on the other hand, don’t feel pain and are incapable of thought, so it’s more acceptable to kill them for food.
To elaborate, plants do not react to or process stimuli in a way you can relate to, so it’s all right to “torture and kill them for pleasure”. The way plants perceive their surroundings may, or may not, be a lot more relatable to a Sylvari than it is to human beings though, so maybe some Sylvari don’t feel comfortable “torturing” plants “for pleasure”.
“Most Vegetarians” and I will have to agree to disagree with the whole torture thing though. I don’t think it’s okay to torture anyone, whether it’s for pleasure, sustenance, or some other reason.
There are some humans who are Vegetarians against their Omnivorous nature for many reasons. One of which is because they feel it is morally wrong to eat other animals, since humans are animals too.
But Sylvari are plants. So I suppose the reverse must be true for us. For ethical reasons, we cannot eat fellow plants and must make do living off the flesh of animals. It is the ethical choice.
Salad is murder!
Actually, the reason most Vegetarians don’t eat animals is because it is cruel to the animals to torture and kill them for pleasure. Plants, on the other hand, don’t feel pain and are incapable of thought, so it’s more acceptable to kill them for food. Thus, it would make more sense for a Sylvari (or anyone for that matter) to eat plants but not meat. Whether Sylvari are actually plants is also open to discussion.
Who said, plants don’t feel pain?
You say that, like you know, what you are talking about. Unless you are a plant yourself and suffered from various attacks with several gardening tools, I’d say, this statement is pretty much ridiculous.
The mob has spoken and the turrets shall be burnt at the stake.
Plants, on the other hand, don’t feel pain and are incapable of thought, so it’s more acceptable to kill them for food.
To elaborate, plants do not react to or process stimuli in a way you can relate to, so it’s all right to “torture and kill them for pleasure”. The way plants perceive their surroundings may, or may not, be a lot more relatable to a Sylvari than it is to human beings though, so maybe some Sylvari don’t feel comfortable “torturing” plants “for pleasure”.
“Most Vegetarians” and I will have to agree to disagree with the whole torture thing though. I don’t think it’s okay to torture anyone, whether it’s for pleasure, sustenance, or some other reason.
While it’s true that we don’t know for certain that plants don’t feel pain, they don’t have a nervous system like animals so we must presume that they don’t feel pain, certainly not in the same way as animals. In fact, it would be rather pointless for, say, a cabbage to feel pain as they will just feel horrible while being unable to save themselves. Since Sylvari perceive the world in the same way as animals (playing Guild Wars 2 as a Sylvari would be incredibly difficult if they perceived the world as plants) they can’t relate to the feelings of non-sentient plants, and thus will have a similar attitude as Humans to eating them.
I don’t really get the last paragraph of your post; certainly, almost all the Vegetarians I know, including myself, don’t believe it is right to torture and kill anyone for pleasure or sustenance or any other reason, and we are Vegetarians because that is essentially what eating meat is. Anyway, this is not the forum to have a debate about whether it is right to eat meat.
What I was saying is, Sylvari have more similarities to animals than plants, and, from what we experience in the game, they have similar attitudes to food as Humans.
We know that all plants in the magical world of Tyria don’t follow all the rules of mundane plants. Just as all animals in the magical world of Tyria don’t follow all the rules of mundane animals in RL.
Actually, the reason most Vegetarians don’t eat animals is because it is cruel to the animals to torture and kill them for pleasure. Plants, on the other hand, don’t feel pain and are incapable of thought, so it’s more acceptable to kill them for food.
Do you believe that the Sylvari torture their food and kill for pleasure? I think they eat for sustenance, personally.
As I respect my natural environment, I cleanly kill all the animals before I eat them. My issue is not in torture since my necromancer skills can instantly kill rabbits and/or deer. So really, their pain is immaterial. Pain is not a problem. Those rabbits don’t have time to feel pain before I thwap them with my moonshank. Also, as a Sentient plant, I am not truly concerned for the feelings of non-sentient Animals. Animal life is really beyond my ability to understand, though I try too. I mean, I know I feel pain, but do they? Their lack of cell walls make them so squishy and easily killed I think they probably die before they have a chance to feel pain. Furthermore, they exist to sustain me and provide raw materials for making minions. And they don’t seem to complain about it. In fact, I see other Animals do the same things all the time. I am more worried about the feelings of my fellow plants. If I can feel, surely they can as well.
It just hurts though,as Omnomberries are so delicious. Is it ethical for me to eat the unborn children of fellow plants?
Maguuma
(edited by Aeros.2046)
Plants likely do not feel pain in the same way we do, but I think it’s safe to say that they are aware of their environment and can, to some extent, recognise threats. There was a famous experiment where a species of pest beetle was released into an enclosure. The tree in the enclosure released some kind of pain/distress pheromone, which resulted in all trees in nearby enclosures preparing defenses against that specific type of pest beetle, even though no beetles had been introduced into their enclosures and they therefore shouldn’t have had any way of knowing there was a threat.
Plants also do not appreciate being eaten, and many plant species have evolved various defenses to discourage browsing. In that sense, even if plants do not feel pain as we do, if we want to treat all life as humanely as possible, we should also include plants in our considerations. If we had a human who was born without the ability to feel pain or communicate, we still wouldn’t go poking needles into him just for our amusement. (Well, I wouldn’t, at any rate.)
Can a sylvari get drunk?
I saw one drunk, he could never remember pistils for stamens because of this.
This must be one of the most ridiculous threads I’ve ever read on the internets. I like plants, very much in fact and I know quite a lot about them having been into doing things in the garden for a few years now.. so when I read: “plants should be treated humanely”?! lol complete nonsense. I suspect most people commenting similar things to that have never planted or even watered a plant in their life.
Right, listen: have you ever heard of “propagation”? Plants can reproduce by “mutilation”. You cut a bit of the root off a living healthy plant and dah dah!, you get another one and the “mutilated” plant continues living. You can do the same with the shoots, branches or twigs in other plants. In fact the way to be “cruel” to a plant is to leave it as it is and never “mutilate” (prune) it. Dead-heading also, ever heard of it?
“Plants also do not appreciate being eaten”. Oh yeah? Berries are sweet and tempting to birds just so they ARE eaten and thus sown and propagated with the bird droppings. Not to mention leaves which are full of nutrients such as tea leaves, for instance.
Plants feel pain? Yeah because every time I prune my bay tree it shreeks really loudly. Come on…seriously.
(edited by Falafal.9135)
This must be one of the most ridiculous threads I’ve ever read on the internets. I like plants, very much in fact and I know quite a lot about them having been into doing things in the garden for a few years now.. so when I read: “plants should be treated humanely”?! lol complete nonsense. I suspect most people commenting similar things to that have never planted or even watered a plant in their life.
Right, listen: have you ever heard of “propagation”? Plants can reproduce by “mutilation”. You cut a bit of the root off a living healthy plant and dah dah!, you get another one and the “mutilated” plant continues living. You can do the same with the shoots, branches or twigs in other plants. In fact the way to be “cruel” to a plant is to leave it as it is and never “mutilate” (prune) it. Dead-heading also, ever heard of it?
“Plants also do not appreciate being eaten”. Oh yeah? Berries are sweet and tempting to birds just so they ARE eaten and thus sown and propagated with the bird droppings. Not to mention leaves which are full of nutrients such as tea leaves, for instance.
Plants feel pain? Yeah because every time I prune my bay tree it shreeks really loudly. Come on…seriously.
I’m no gardener, but yes, I’ve heard of propagation by root cuttings, grafts and the like. I know it’s also used by horticulturalists and agriculturalists primarily as a means of mass producing a plant with desired traits. Is it useful to us? Certainly. Was it intended by the plant when it evolved such a trait? Probably not. It likely originated as a survival mechanism where if a plant was badly damaged, but at least one portion of it survived, it was able to regenerate from that and live on.
I’m not entirely sure what dead-heading is, but I’m guessing it’s something like pruning or trimming dead portions of a plant to encourage healthier growth. In that light, it could be seen as medical treatment, so I have no objection to it any more than I would object to a doctor insisting I cut off a gangrenous limb before it kills me.
Fruits (and to some extent flowers and nectar) are an entirely different matter when it comes to plants. I certainly don’t deny that plants evolved them specifically to encourage animals to eat them. What I meant was that plants will also evolve defenses against unwanted grazing. That’s why cacti have spines, and why some plants secrete poisonous or irritating sap. In fact, chili peppers originally evolved their capsaicin content specifically to discourage mammals from eating them. The plants wanted BIRDS to eat them, because birds lack the receptors to detect spicyness and thus suffer no ill effect from eating chilis. Birds could also carry the chili seeds much farther and more widely than most animals could, and thus were the preferred method of transport for seeds over mammals. (It’s therefore ironic that humans now cultivate chilis specifically because they enjoy the piquancy of the fruits, something which was evolved originally to drive them off.)
Again, we’re operating on the assumption that just because plants don’t display any outward sign of pain or distress when we prune or harvest them, that they don’t feel pain. Indeed, plants may not experience pain the same way we do, but I’ll wager that they CAN sense when they are being damaged, and it’s not an outcome they desire. Plants want to survive just as much as animals and people do.
I feel like this is appropriate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmK0bZl4ILM
That’s a very touching song.
I’m no gardener, but yes, I’ve heard of propagation by root cuttings
snip
Ok, the way you put it now I’d agree with you and you make some very good points, I have to admit. Sorry if I misread what you were saying and came across a bit aggressive. Was just reading some other threads (i.e. Sylvari bodily functions lol..omg) and read maybe more into it than I should have.
You are right, though. Plants should be respected, especially when they are so important in the terms of keeping a planet liveable for us mammals. Without them, we wouldn’t survive. I guess it would be the same on Tyria.
Though I still don’t think plants feel pain. Consider that some plants need to be cut down to soil level during wintering and not doing so could make the root ball rot. If the plant did feel pain cutting it back so drastically, surely it wouldn’t be beneficial to the plant?
Anyway, it’s hard to get emotional over a passive thing like a plant. A hobby of mine is to get half-dead plants from garden centres at knock down prices and make them flourish again. I don’t see this as “rescuing” as some call it, but just “grabing a bargain”. I have around a 90 per cent success rate…and have some real beauties now. I care about my plants but if something happens to one of them I think: “ kitten all that hard work wasted…what a pity”. On the other hand, my cat, who shows me affection, I treat and care about as I would any human being I care about. Plants: it’s hard to see them as more than mere decoration. Harsh but true.
p.s. “dead-heading” is removing dead or old flowers in order to promote new growth or prolong the flowering season. Usually used in roses.
(edited by Falafal.9135)
@Falafal: It did come across as being somewhat aggressive, but that’s OK. No offense was taken. I know that it’s hard to have the same kind of empathy for plants as we do for animals or other humans given how different they are from us, but the attitude you have towards them is still commendable. We should always treat the things we use to enrich our lives with respect, and you seem to do that.
Just wondering though. The plants that are cut down to soil level during wintering, are those plants native to such cold areas? Or is that a technique that’s done to ensure a plant that normally can’t tolerate the cold will survive the winter?
Zaxares: No, the plants are native (talking about the UK here) i.e. hostas, forget-me-nots etc. All cold weather plants. Tropical plants almost never “hibernate” under the soil for winter and it doesn’t work, lost many tropical plants this way when they went to mush because of the cold and so cut it back to the root ball hoping it will come back up in spring…some do, most don’t. But even the ones that do it’s pointless because they’re not plants which give full growth in one year (like for example honeysuckle does)..so you have an eternally young and small plant which never achieves its full glory.
I know what you mean about it being hard showing empathy for a non-sentient (well..seemingly) but still live, thing. On the other hand plants are extremely cruel to each other lol. If a plant is dominant it will kill all other plants around it if not kept in check.
edit: I bought into that global warming rubbish and the advice to “start planting tropical plants because it’s getting hotter and raining less” a few years back. My last tropical died 2 years ago and now have exactly zero in the garden. Well…1 in a pot..a canary palm (if you can call Spain the “tropics”) and even that is touch-and-go..had to revive it a few times.
(edited by Falafal.9135)
As long as you get plenty of sunlight and remember to stick your head in a bucket of water every now and then, you’ll be fine.
best. Response. EVER.
…But that doesn’t mean I am one.
As long as you get plenty of sunlight and remember to stick your head in a bucket of water every now and then, you’ll be fine.
Plants actually need more than just sunlight and water. Sunlight and CO2 take care of the energy (and most structural) requirements, but like animals, plants need a wide range of nutrients – they need nitrogen, sulfur, various metals etc, which they have 2 ways of getting: a) putting roots in rich soil and/or b) consuming other creatures.
PS @OP: The correct word for “meat-eating” is “carnivorous”, not “meatitarian”